that's the thing. Many of us are living in reality. History doesn't repeat history, people repeat history. And in this genre of gaming, people repeat history a lot,,,very often. These games get over hyped greatly. I seen people argue that Guild Wars 2 won't have a grind... Or some argument that because the game doesn't have raids, that means that there won't be any dungeon grinds. Some people even saying that the game will be balanced in PvP.some people are hyping up the Dynamic Event to some unrealistic measurements. The large boss fight events are the same concept that we see from the bosses in Rift. Let's be real here people.
Hmmm. Either you never played Guild Wars 1, or you didn't understand it.
It's easy to believe Arenanet, because they did a lot of this stuff already.
PvP? Surprisingly balanced for something with a metric crapton of skills. This time around, they're designing it in a way that promotes better balance, from the beginning. Of course it won't be perfectly balanced, but there's no reason for it to not be better balanced than usual.
... and GW2 will have a grind. .. .but it'll be optional. God, you could grind the HELL out of Guild Wars. Fear the people with the GWAMMO title. :P They're going for a low power ceiling you hit quickly in a variety of ways. Max equipment can be gotten from tokens (That means 5 trips to the dungeon tops. On a dungeon with 4 paths. Anything after that is optional, player-induced grinding), crafting, WvW or just plain bought using gold or karma. Of course you'll be ABLE to grind, but at that point, it's not really for statistical progression anymore..
... and the only person I see hyping up Dynamic Events to unrealistic measurements in this topic is you. Really. You don't even seem to KNOW why people look forward to dynamic events, that people have already played them, and what seperates them from Rifts. I feel sorry for Cali59, since you appear to have him on ignore.
I understand the skepticism. I wholeheartedly encourage skepticism. Don't buy into the hype. Look for demo footage and other actual gameplay. Try to sign up for open beta when it comes. Wait for a free trial or reviews or see what your friend thinks first.
I understand people have been burned very badly in the past by other games. I believe ArenaNet understands it too.
Here's a quote by Colin Johanson that I come back to so often I should just get it tattooed.
...all the information we release, we try to make sure that what we’re talking about is in the game, it’s working, and it does the things that we want it to do before we come out and we talk about it. I think this day and age MMO gamers have been made sort of jaded by MMO developers, where they hear all these great things that people want to do, and for whatever reason, oftentimes they don’t have time to do all of it. The things that people say they’re going to do, they don’t end up being able to do as well as they wanted to, or they don’t end up being able to do at all, and we don’t want to be the kind of company that does that.
Here's another one by Eric Flannum in response to "There are going to be bugs when they release it so why not just release it now and fix the bugs later?"
In the current western gaming market a game has one chance to find it's audience and that chance occurs right when it releases. The examples of games that have released with huge problems and then stabilized and gained a following after being fixed are few and far between. On the other hand the examples of games that released with a lot of potential, made a bad first impression and have since been relegated to a small audience or have even been shut down are easy to point to. We've all seen where releasing unfinished gets a game and none of us want Guild Wars 2 to fail because it was released before it was finished.
I have worries about the game. Maybe there will be something fundamentally wrong with it that they won't realize until very late. Maybe it won't be fun. Maybe my friend with carpal tunnel won't be able to play it because it's too active. Maybe I'm so sick of MMOs I won't even like it.
I'm probably as optimistic as anybody here about this game but I do truly try to see it for what it is and not what I imagine it will be. I just think that maybe, hopefully, finally, somebody will make a AAA MMO and not screw it up.
GW2 isn't the ultimate game. I think they have a vision for cooperation which is very exciting to me. Other games are coming out with their own visions for sandbox, setting, ARG, MMOFPS, competition, whatever. Hopefully GW2 is a success which will drive the next next generation of developers to seek out their own visions, and to also realize they will need to deliver a polished product which lives up to their promises.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
So what the OP is trying to say is that GW2 is impossible. The OP is trying to say the developers cannot make GW2 the way they said they were going to make it. The gaming world is fictional therefore the gaming universe makes anything possible.
If I want cows that poop peppermints in a video game I can have it because I can create it out of programming and visual design. There is no limitation to a game. The only limitation is the mind of the developer.
that's the thing. Many of us are living in reality. History doesn't repeat history, people repeat history. And in this genre of gaming, people repeat history a lot,,,very often. These games get over hyped greatly. I seen people argue that Guild Wars 2 won't have a grind... Or some argument that because the game doesn't have raids, that means that there won't be any dungeon grinds. Some people even saying that the game will be balanced in PvP.some people are hyping up the Dynamic Event to some unrealistic measurements. The large boss fight events are the same concept that we see from the bosses in Rift. Let's be real here people.
Yeah lets be real, I can look forward to GW2 and not have someone tell me I am crazy for it. /end thread
So what the OP is trying to say is that GW2 is impossible. The OP is trying to say the developers cannot make GW2 the way they said they were going to make it. The gaming world is fictional therefore the gaming universe makes anything possible. If I want cows that poop peppermints in a video game I can have it because I can create it out of programming and visual design. There is no limitation to a game. The only limitation is the mind of the developer.
that's the thing. Many of us are living in reality. History doesn't repeat history, people repeat history. And in this genre of gaming, people repeat history a lot,,,very often. These games get over hyped greatly. I seen people argue that Guild Wars 2 won't have a grind... Or some argument that because the game doesn't have raids, that means that there won't be any dungeon grinds. Some people even saying that the game will be balanced in PvP.some people are hyping up the Dynamic Event to some unrealistic measurements. The large boss fight events are the same concept that we see from the bosses in Rift. Let's be real here people.
Yeah lets be real, I can look forward to GW2 and not have someone tell me I am crazy for it. /end thread
Hey Iam out, but one last point. Can you, Cali or any of the other fans of GW2, share or paste over here the list of innovation and original features that GW2 will have? I would like to see that list again. Maybe my skepticism was wrong,,, who knows other than Anet and insiders,,,,(Edit: forgot to add "Fans" to this list),,, right?
I've been playing and following games for over 10 years. I've got a pretty good idea of what to expect simply by listening to the developers and watching footage.
There is something sincere about how the developers talk about their game, like they have real ambition and goal other than $$$$$$$$. They feel like artists, what game developers are supposed to be.
And reading about GW2 and watching all the videos of it, I simply can't find anything I wouldn't like. It looks and sounds great, it seriously reminds me of when I first saw WoW. You simply sensed it was going to be good.
I didn't feel that way about AoC, WAR, Rift or SWTOR - and what do they have in common?
GW1 for the record was great, it wasn't something I played for long and the main reason was because most of my friends didn't play it.
I might be wrong about GW2 it may come out crashing and burning but that would also mean it's the first time I've ever been wrong about my gut feeling for games.
GW2 really doesn't have as much hype as the OP seems to think. Much of the hype is also not shared in the same way by GW fans as it appears to be by fans of other games.
Most of the GW2 fans I see on these boards share one common view. GW2 is going to play differently than the MMOs we have gotten tired of. It will be different. That's it. Very few of us pretend that this game will appeal to everyone, that it will dethrone other MMOs, or that it is the coming messiah of the industry. It is simply a breath of fresh air we are desperately waiting to take.
Noone likes sitting in stagnation for prolonged periods of time. Release the game, when it's ready, and see where it goes from there. I am sure there will be a lot of haters when the game launches, as there is so much misinformation surrounding this game, inspite of the collosal amount of accurate info provided.
So what the OP is trying to say is that GW2 is impossible. The OP is trying to say the developers cannot make GW2 the way they said they were going to make it. The gaming world is fictional therefore the gaming universe makes anything possible.
If I want cows that poop peppermints in a video game I can have it because I can create it out of programming and visual design. There is no limitation to a game. The only limitation is the mind of the developer.
that's the thing. Many of us are living in reality. History doesn't repeat history, people repeat history. And in this genre of gaming, people repeat history a lot,,,very often. These games get over hyped greatly. I seen people argue that Guild Wars 2 won't have a grind... Or some argument that because the game doesn't have raids, that means that there won't be any dungeon grinds. Some people even saying that the game will be balanced in PvP.some people are hyping up the Dynamic Event to some unrealistic measurements. The large boss fight events are the same concept that we see from the bosses in Rift. Let's be real here people.
Yeah lets be real, I can look forward to GW2 and not have someone tell me I am crazy for it. /end thread
Hey Iam out, but one last point. Can you, Cali or any of the other fans of GW2, share or paste over here the list of innovation and original features that GW2 will have? I would like to see that list again. Maybe my skepticism was wrong,,, who knows other than Anet and insiders,,,,(Edit: forgot to add "Fans" to this list),,, right?
Be skeptical. I dont care. I like the game for my reasons and not yours. I don't need a million innovations.
I like 3 way pvp
I like their take on gear
Combt looks incredible
I like flat leveling and their take on questing
and I really like that I can do everything I like at my own pace and not worry about wasting my sub money
It is impossible for this game to live up to the hype it has generated. It has been romanticized to a fault, and the expectations people have put on it go way beyond what a game can pull.
You will not wake up twitching to try to get your dose of GW2. You will not sleep better because of your accomplishments in game. You will not give up your job, family, friends and physical well-being just to get in a few more hours of game time.
The prior example was just an exageration to put "hype" into perspective. The ultimate game should be able to completely suck you in to the point that you do just what I have stated before without even realizing it. Like the most intense of drugs, it should make you do things you wouldn't normally do. That is the type of stuff that WoW did to many in the gaming community... check out WoW's current hype... Then come look at GW2's hype and tell me you expect it to do better than that.
All that aside, the real reason it should not release is because of the quote I did before: You NEED to have an ultimate goal as to what you want a game to be. A holy grail of gaming to come (but that never materializes). Once GW2 releases, the disappointments accross the board are going to be increadibly large. The bugs, the exploits, the cheats, the gankings, the unfair advantages, the tweaks, the nerfs... IOW, the REALITY of MMORPG gaming will kick in. While its in development you can easily ignore all those things and make the game to be the best that will ever come out. But once it is out, its all over. No pleasant feeling of an upcoming game, no daydreaming of how the PvP will go, ...
GW2 should stay in development ad-infinum just to keep the gaming community hoping for a good game in the future, in order for them to not realize that their current gaming is about as good as things will ever get and not drop into a gaming depression. Having a "goal" keeps the MMORPG gaming community healthy as they continually try to find justifications for why their current or future or prior game was the best there ever was/is/will be.
Isn't this an example of WoW, the game revolutionised the genre, why can't GW2 do the same?
We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.
So what the OP is trying to say is that GW2 is impossible. The OP is trying to say the developers cannot make GW2 the way they said they were going to make it. The gaming world is fictional therefore the gaming universe makes anything possible.
If I want cows that poop peppermints in a video game I can have it because I can create it out of programming and visual design. There is no limitation to a game. The only limitation is the mind of the developer.
that's the thing. Many of us are living in reality. History doesn't repeat history, people repeat history. And in this genre of gaming, people repeat history a lot,,,very often. These games get over hyped greatly. I seen people argue that Guild Wars 2 won't have a grind... Or some argument that because the game doesn't have raids, that means that there won't be any dungeon grinds. Some people even saying that the game will be balanced in PvP.some people are hyping up the Dynamic Event to some unrealistic measurements. The large boss fight events are the same concept that we see from the bosses in Rift. Let's be real here people.
Yeah lets be real, I can look forward to GW2 and not have someone tell me I am crazy for it. /end thread
Hey Iam out, but one last point. Can you, Cali or any of the other fans of GW2, share or paste over here the list of innovation and original features that GW2 will have? I would like to see that list again. Maybe my skepticism was wrong,,, who knows other than Anet and insiders,,,,(Edit: forgot to add "Fans" to this list),,, right?
Not for your benefit (because I know you can look for it yourself just fine and are baiting), but for the benefit of others who may come by and see this thread, here is the link to the Tao of Arenanet:
The funny thing is that a lot of us GW2 fans don't see this game as the Messaiah of MMORPGs, that will appear once every 2 millenia, to save us and this genre as a whole.
well define "a lot" because so far the GW2 community* is kinda "meh" to use a nice word from my point of view, way worse than the GW1 one, which while it had some "omg wow sux!!111" post wasn't quite as rabid towards other MMOs
*not refering to just this forum, but in general
Originally posted by Pigozz
You see SWTOR was announcced and everyone was like OMZG THIS WILL BE THE BEST MMO EVER - I HAVE NO REAL INFO ABOUT IT BUT I JUST KNOW THAT!!!AMA FAKIN PROPHET! ...Oh yes I also remember threads like SWTOR wont be anything like wow because of this and that bla bla...THAT was hyped up
when TOR was annoucend it was more of a "lololo this game looks like shit" more than anything else :P
well the first screen shoots released did look like shit ^^
Well the point I made, that you conveniently cut out, was that most of the GW2 community is comprised of people who are excited for the features that are already in the game and working. Heck, even some people in this very thread have played the game and can testify why they enjoted their experience.
There's a huge difference between blind faith and excitement based on prior knowledge.
It is impossible for this game to live up to the hype it has generated. It has been romanticized to a fault, and the expectations people have put on it go way beyond what a game can pull.
You will not wake up twitching to try to get your dose of GW2. You will not sleep better because of your accomplishments in game. You will not give up your job, family, friends and physical well-being just to get in a few more hours of game time.
The prior example was just an exageration to put "hype" into perspective. The ultimate game should be able to completely suck you in to the point that you do just what I have stated before without even realizing it. Like the most intense of drugs, it should make you do things you wouldn't normally do. That is the type of stuff that WoW did to many in the gaming community... check out WoW's current hype... Then come look at GW2's hype and tell me you expect it to do better than that.
All that aside, the real reason it should not release is because of the quote I did before: You NEED to have an ultimate goal as to what you want a game to be. A holy grail of gaming to come (but that never materializes). Once GW2 releases, the disappointments accross the board are going to be increadibly large. The bugs, the exploits, the cheats, the gankings, the unfair advantages, the tweaks, the nerfs... IOW, the REALITY of MMORPG gaming will kick in. While its in development you can easily ignore all those things and make the game to be the best that will ever come out. But once it is out, its all over. No pleasant feeling of an upcoming game, no daydreaming of how the PvP will go, ...
GW2 should stay in development ad-infinum just to keep the gaming community hoping for a good game in the future, in order for them to not realize that their current gaming is about as good as things will ever get and not drop into a gaming depression. Having a "goal" keeps the MMORPG gaming community healthy as they continually try to find justifications for why their current or future or prior game was the best there ever was/is/will be.
First things first, you're idea is wrong. The quote doesn't apply to this either. Second, any MMORPG player should already expect the bugs, the exploits, etc. This comes with being a gamer of any type. It being in development doesn't mean that we're easily "ignoring" these things. We're not playing it so we have nothing to go on. I don't get a pleasant feeling because the game is upcoming, I get excited because of all the proof we've seen in demos. Proof that a company out there really, really cares a whole lot about their product and their reputation. Enough so that they're taking the time and putting in the effort to deliver an excellent gaming experience in a world with rich lore and events that will keep said player engaged. Gaming depression? Why? Because the game is created by imperfect beings for imperfect beings? Why would a GW 2 release lower the goal? It wouldn't. This game is going to set a new bar for the genre. I believe it and I've been playing games since I was about four years old. I've seen enough video and read enough from people that have played the game and continue playing the game to know that this game is going to be epic. Is it going to effect me like a strong drug? I'd hope not. That was a hard chapter of my life I'd like not to repeat. Gaming and drugs are nowhere near the same. Bad comparison. I don't think a game can be said to be best ever unless you've only ever played one game in your entire life. If anything games should only strive to get better and build on the things that work, even if they're from different games. This idea applies to almost every facet of life. Should Henry Ford have never created his line of cars just so people would have a "goal"? Should the Wright bros. just drawn up ideas and never created their planes just so people would be excited of what might be? No. They did the right thing in releasing the tech and pushing society further. Advancement. I fear you'd have had a tough time with the idea of a wheel if you were a neanderthal. Good luck with you mentality. I prefer companies that provide competition for the industry and force others to strive to be better. So good job ANet, I look forward to the release of you product, flawed as it may well be, because It looks darn good and I wanna play it. And if I never get to play it, I won't be depressed. I'll just shrug and look forward to the next good thing in life, whatever that may be. Quick aside, coming Messiah of games is being thrown around a lot. Look at todays world and society, I think the real one isn't far off. And it's not a game.
Well the point I made, that you conveniently cut out, was that most of the GW2 community is comprised of people who are excited for the features that are already in the game and working. Heck, even some people in this very thread have played the game and can testify why they enjoted their experience. There's a huge difference between blind faith and excitement based on prior knowledge.
I cut it out because it had nothing to do with my post my point was that the gw2 community is hostile towards other MMOs (mostly wow and those based on it) beyond what was seen in the gw1 community, the quality of gw2 has nothing to do with this, one can see the quality in a game and not bash another game, I dislike minecraft and tf2, I don't mention them when I talk about MW3 or Skyrim, games that I do like there is this sense of "we are better gamers because we will play gw2 and not wow" in the gw2 community that I really dislike, just like I dislike elitist attitudes in other gaming communities
Well the point I made, that you conveniently cut out, was that most of the GW2 community is comprised of people who are excited for the features that are already in the game and working. Heck, even some people in this very thread have played the game and can testify why they enjoted their experience.
There's a huge difference between blind faith and excitement based on prior knowledge.
I cut it out because it had nothing to do with my post
my point was that the gw2 community is hostile towards other MMOs (mostly wow and those based on it) beyond what was seen in the gw1 community, the quality of gw2 has nothing to do with this, one can see the quality in a game and not bash another game, I dislike minecraft and tf2, I don't mention them when I talk about MW3 or Skyrim, games that I do like
there is this sense of "we are better gamers because we will play gw2 and not wow" in the gw2 community that I really dislike, just like I dislike elitist attitudes in other gaming communities
GW2 and WoW are very comparable in many ways. So yes, you can mention then when talking about one or the other. It would however be totally crazy to talk about Minecraft in a Skyrim review seeing as they are not comparable in any way what so ever. In the same way that GW1 is not even an MMO.. so it is less comparable to WoW etc.
The bashing you are seeing stems from more than one thing. First of all we have people coming onto the GW2 forums and saying the game is the same as X and 'it's all been done before' and they are clearly baiting. To make matters worse we can't even mention the fact we are looking forward to GW2 and we aren't allowed to level any criticism on any other game like saying 'I dislike that it has quests, those have been done to death. I would prefer to see something different.. kind of like what GW2 is trying to do' or else we just get labeled as rabid fanboys and our comment gets totally dismissed.
Give that much of what is wrong with this genre as a whole comes down to blatent plaguarism (games copying each other) is it nice to see a company making a game such as GW2 (And the likes of ArcheAge or TSW) and trying to challenge and improve upon the aspects and conventions of the MMORPG's that have came before rather than taking the easy route and doing more of the same. So it is only natural that games like WoW, WAR, Aion and SW:TOR get compared to GW2. The thing is, rather than have a decent discussion about it people just shoot us down since we don't want 'more of the same'. I don't claim to speak for everyone but I simply can't imagine someone who loves MMO's not enjoying GW2's Dynamic Events more than they enjoy questing in so yes for some people it can be hard to imagine why GW2's features, and fans, get dismissed without thought. I understand people like other games better than the ones I play and if I do believe that another game is better than I will try explain it rather than just dismiss them. A pity the same is not done for the majority of us who compare previously released, and some upcoming, MMO's to GW2.
I'll leave you with this.. The MMO genre was founded on ambition, not popularity. Games designers had a vision of creating a living, breathing world in which we could all participate and make our own choices. Where the sky was the limit and thousands of people could do what they wanted. Indeed, when you look back on it, the MMO genre itself arguably was founded by 'those stupid sandbox'ers' that everyone loves to make fun of.
And in the meantime we have to settle for schlock like SWTOR? No thanks. Give me the game and let the needy find another MMO messiah to pine for.
And when GW2 comes out, all the haters will trash it just like they did RIFT, SWTOR....etc......
nothing new, move along
Probably. But it's not what you think.
There will inevitably be a group of people that don't like GW2...I'm pretty much sure of this. I mean, we already know there are folks that are mad there are no raids in GW2, or that there is fast travel, so the game isn't going to appeal to every single person.
Some of these people will likely come to the forums and start to trash the game. So I can't disagree, there will be trashing of this game when it is released.
The flaw in your reasoning is when you say "the haters." There seems to be this belief that there is a group of roving MMORPG marauders (the haters) that are dissatisfied with any MMORPG and make it their mission in life to trash every MMORPG that comes out.
I really don't think that's the case. Most folks here that are psyched about the game will probably like it in my estimation. And a lot of these folks are probably psyched for GW2 because they are looking for something different. So you may see them "hating" on current games that give more of the same. This does not mean they are a "hater" destined to never be satisified and cursed with hating on every game that will ever come out.
There will be individuals that don't like GW2, but that's all they are...individuals.
Take a note of all the folks you see on here that are psyched for GW2 but are "haters" of other games. I doubt that you will see most of them come back and trash GW2.
Maybe so, but I have yet to see a game released where the masses loved it .
And in the meantime we have to settle for schlock like SWTOR? No thanks. Give me the game and let the needy find another MMO messiah to pine for.
And when GW2 comes out, all the haters will trash it just like they did RIFT, SWTOR....etc......
nothing new, move along
Probably. But it's not what you think.
There will inevitably be a group of people that don't like GW2...I'm pretty much sure of this. I mean, we already know there are folks that are mad there are no raids in GW2, or that there is fast travel, so the game isn't going to appeal to every single person.
Some of these people will likely come to the forums and start to trash the game. So I can't disagree, there will be trashing of this game when it is released.
The flaw in your reasoning is when you say "the haters." There seems to be this belief that there is a group of roving MMORPG marauders (the haters) that are dissatisfied with any MMORPG and make it their mission in life to trash every MMORPG that comes out.
I really don't think that's the case. Most folks here that are psyched about the game will probably like it in my estimation. And a lot of these folks are probably psyched for GW2 because they are looking for something different. So you may see them "hating" on current games that give more of the same. This does not mean they are a "hater" destined to never be satisified and cursed with hating on every game that will ever come out.
There will be individuals that don't like GW2, but that's all they are...individuals.
Take a note of all the folks you see on here that are psyched for GW2 but are "haters" of other games. I doubt that you will see most of them come back and trash GW2.
Maybe so, but I have yet to see a game released where the masses loved it .
Masses on MMORPG.com =/= MMORPG masses. People here have been saying every game is a failure for years, even when games were doing well, and even when games are still doing well.
Nothing has been a smash hit, out of the ballpark, WoW numbers, but nothing likely will hold subscriptions like that ever again (and WoW doesn't really hold 10M subs anyways, a lot of that is hourly in asia).
So while you may get a ton of positive or negative over a game (sanboxes seem to always be positive here, but not very popular in the mainstream) it isn't indicative of ..normal people.
Erm, dunno. My expectations on MMO's are pretty low at this point. I just want a well done game (SW:TOR is an example of what is not well done), that's all. If anyone can deliver that, I'll roll with them. Right now, that's EVE.
GW2 is presenting a few features that I find very good improvments over the current paradigm (excluding EVE, of course). No Trinity, dynamic world-bound quests instead of character quests, auto-grouping, and what appears to be better combat. If GW2 can implement those while having room to roam around and stuff to do like kill things, I'll be happy. I played GW1, and GW1 was pretty well done for what it was. If Arena can continue the trend - make the game well done for what it is, then GW2 will be an excellent game in my eyes.
I dint read all the comments because the thread is 10 pages long but here's my 2 cents
I agree with the OP, i think GW2 is overhyped, im not saying its gonna be a bad game, im impatiently waiting for it too but theyve kept us waiting for so long that the hype just grows and grows every time they release something about the game. And its gonna dissapoint a lot of people, people think it's gonna be a perfect or near-perfect game just because the devs say they're gonna release it "when its done".
I already know GW2 will have features that I won't like, and some I will find boring and annoying. There are features I will be missing at launch (housing, for example).
But I'd rather have a game I can play and find enjoyable overall than imagine how it would be to play a perfect, ideal, and sadly nonexistent version of that game. From GW2 I expect only the already presented features and a certain level of quality.
BTW, I assume GW1 players who follow the GW2 develper blogs and watch gameplay vids have a good idea of what to expect, same for those who played the demos. Those are, in my belief, also the most ardent GW2 supporters here. It's difficult to speak of overhyping in this case.
Originally posted by Gutrippa Oh well... some like coffee - some like tea, I prefer me Jack Black & Ginger ale meself actually
I was going to make a comparison between ckicken, caviar, and pudding, but it'll look like I was copying you. Anyway, as long as I can have my pudding, I don't really care. And I don't expect my pudding to replace the entire menu in the restaurant or even to go around saving the world. It's just a pudding, not a damn hero.
Guild Wars 2 should definitely be released. Just not right on top of The Secret World. I'm hoping both games do really well and if they go head to head, one of them is going to lose some early box purchase numbers.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
And in the meantime we have to settle for schlock like SWTOR? No thanks. Give me the game and let the needy find another MMO messiah to pine for.
And when GW2 comes out, all the haters will trash it just like they did RIFT, SWTOR....etc......
nothing new, move along
Probably. But it's not what you think.
There will inevitably be a group of people that don't like GW2...I'm pretty much sure of this. I mean, we already know there are folks that are mad there are no raids in GW2, or that there is fast travel, so the game isn't going to appeal to every single person.
Some of these people will likely come to the forums and start to trash the game. So I can't disagree, there will be trashing of this game when it is released.
The flaw in your reasoning is when you say "the haters." There seems to be this belief that there is a group of roving MMORPG marauders (the haters) that are dissatisfied with any MMORPG and make it their mission in life to trash every MMORPG that comes out.
I really don't think that's the case. Most folks here that are psyched about the game will probably like it in my estimation. And a lot of these folks are probably psyched for GW2 because they are looking for something different. So you may see them "hating" on current games that give more of the same. This does not mean they are a "hater" destined to never be satisified and cursed with hating on every game that will ever come out.
There will be individuals that don't like GW2, but that's all they are...individuals.
Take a note of all the folks you see on here that are psyched for GW2 but are "haters" of other games. I doubt that you will see most of them come back and trash GW2.
Maybe so, but I have yet to see a game released where the masses loved it .
There are certainly going to be people who hate and bash every single game that ever comes out, though obviously not the same group of people for every game. For much the same reason, you cannot generalize the term "the masses." There will always be some people who hate the game, and a great many people who love it. Of course, occasionally a game is so bad that only a few people enjoy it while a great many people hate it.
But if you were to only use forums such as these (read: the opinions of an extremely passionate vocal minority) as your measuring stick for how good a game is, you're certainly liable to believe that virtually every game is terrible.
Your point is invalid, because you don't understand what I'm saying.
I'm not saying 'GW2 has the same game systems as GW1, and I believe that's true because they did GW1'
I'm saying 'GW2 has the same declared game philosophy as GW1, and I believe that's true because they did GW1 and they delivered on the same philosophies in that game.'
Same philosophies, different methods of going about it.
Most of the things that 1. They've shown at conventions, 2. Aren't actually hard to do because they're game design philosophies, things that are relatively easy to do most of them, and 3. They've announced as doing, and have no real reason to change.
Like having a low power ceiling, being B2P, or allowing people to be max level in structured PvP. Why would they lie about that? What would would be the POINT? How could they fail to program that if they tried?
I'm hyped simply because its different. I've never played the game yet but I've watched alot of demo's etc. I'm super excited and this will change the MMO industry forever( Only for myself of course I can't speak for anyone else. Thought I was going fanboi didn't you?) This will change my POV on MMO's like WoW did! I've played WoW for several years and I tryed all the other popular MMO/WoW Killers out there. They were basically the same game to me only worse. But GW2 isn't trying to be the best their trying to make a different fun game. I'd like different for a change.
In conclusion I'm excited because the features they've said are in the game are actually "In" the game! Cant wait for GW2 it's going to be awesome.
Comments
Hmmm. Either you never played Guild Wars 1, or you didn't understand it.
It's easy to believe Arenanet, because they did a lot of this stuff already.
PvP? Surprisingly balanced for something with a metric crapton of skills. This time around, they're designing it in a way that promotes better balance, from the beginning. Of course it won't be perfectly balanced, but there's no reason for it to not be better balanced than usual.
... and GW2 will have a grind. .. .but it'll be optional. God, you could grind the HELL out of Guild Wars. Fear the people with the GWAMMO title. :P They're going for a low power ceiling you hit quickly in a variety of ways. Max equipment can be gotten from tokens (That means 5 trips to the dungeon tops. On a dungeon with 4 paths. Anything after that is optional, player-induced grinding), crafting, WvW or just plain bought using gold or karma. Of course you'll be ABLE to grind, but at that point, it's not really for statistical progression anymore..
... and the only person I see hyping up Dynamic Events to unrealistic measurements in this topic is you.
Really. You don't even seem to KNOW why people look forward to dynamic events, that people have already played them, and what seperates them from Rifts. I feel sorry for Cali59, since you appear to have him on ignore. 
My point exactly ------^Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I understand the skepticism. I wholeheartedly encourage skepticism. Don't buy into the hype. Look for demo footage and other actual gameplay. Try to sign up for open beta when it comes. Wait for a free trial or reviews or see what your friend thinks first.
I understand people have been burned very badly in the past by other games. I believe ArenaNet understands it too.
Here's a quote by Colin Johanson that I come back to so often I should just get it tattooed.
...all the information we release, we try to make sure that what we’re talking about is in the game, it’s working, and it does the things that we want it to do before we come out and we talk about it. I think this day and age MMO gamers have been made sort of jaded by MMO developers, where they hear all these great things that people want to do, and for whatever reason, oftentimes they don’t have time to do all of it. The things that people say they’re going to do, they don’t end up being able to do as well as they wanted to, or they don’t end up being able to do at all, and we don’t want to be the kind of company that does that.
Here's another one by Eric Flannum in response to "There are going to be bugs when they release it so why not just release it now and fix the bugs later?"
In the current western gaming market a game has one chance to find it's audience and that chance occurs right when it releases. The examples of games that have released with huge problems and then stabilized and gained a following after being fixed are few and far between. On the other hand the examples of games that released with a lot of potential, made a bad first impression and have since been relegated to a small audience or have even been shut down are easy to point to. We've all seen where releasing unfinished gets a game and none of us want Guild Wars 2 to fail because it was released before it was finished.
I have worries about the game. Maybe there will be something fundamentally wrong with it that they won't realize until very late. Maybe it won't be fun. Maybe my friend with carpal tunnel won't be able to play it because it's too active. Maybe I'm so sick of MMOs I won't even like it.
I'm probably as optimistic as anybody here about this game but I do truly try to see it for what it is and not what I imagine it will be. I just think that maybe, hopefully, finally, somebody will make a AAA MMO and not screw it up.
GW2 isn't the ultimate game. I think they have a vision for cooperation which is very exciting to me. Other games are coming out with their own visions for sandbox, setting, ARG, MMOFPS, competition, whatever. Hopefully GW2 is a success which will drive the next next generation of developers to seek out their own visions, and to also realize they will need to deliver a polished product which lives up to their promises.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Yeah lets be real, I can look forward to GW2 and not have someone tell me I am crazy for it. /end thread
that's the thing. Many of us are living in reality. History doesn't repeat history, people repeat history. And in this genre of gaming, people repeat history a lot,,,very often. These games get over hyped greatly. I seen people argue that Guild Wars 2 won't have a grind... Or some argument that because the game doesn't have raids, that means that there won't be any dungeon grinds. Some people even saying that the game will be balanced in PvP.some people are hyping up the Dynamic Event to some unrealistic measurements. The large boss fight events are the same concept that we see from the bosses in Rift. Let's be real here people.Yeah lets be real, I can look forward to GW2 and not have someone tell me I am crazy for it. /end thread
Hey Iam out, but one last point. Can you, Cali or any of the other fans of GW2, share or paste over here the list of innovation and original features that GW2 will have? I would like to see that list again. Maybe my skepticism was wrong,,, who knows other than Anet and insiders,,,,(Edit: forgot to add "Fans" to this list),,, right?Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I've been playing and following games for over 10 years. I've got a pretty good idea of what to expect simply by listening to the developers and watching footage.
There is something sincere about how the developers talk about their game, like they have real ambition and goal other than $$$$$$$$. They feel like artists, what game developers are supposed to be.
And reading about GW2 and watching all the videos of it, I simply can't find anything I wouldn't like. It looks and sounds great, it seriously reminds me of when I first saw WoW. You simply sensed it was going to be good.
I didn't feel that way about AoC, WAR, Rift or SWTOR - and what do they have in common?
GW1 for the record was great, it wasn't something I played for long and the main reason was because most of my friends didn't play it.
I might be wrong about GW2 it may come out crashing and burning but that would also mean it's the first time I've ever been wrong about my gut feeling for games.
GW2 really doesn't have as much hype as the OP seems to think. Much of the hype is also not shared in the same way by GW fans as it appears to be by fans of other games.
Most of the GW2 fans I see on these boards share one common view. GW2 is going to play differently than the MMOs we have gotten tired of. It will be different. That's it. Very few of us pretend that this game will appeal to everyone, that it will dethrone other MMOs, or that it is the coming messiah of the industry. It is simply a breath of fresh air we are desperately waiting to take.
Noone likes sitting in stagnation for prolonged periods of time. Release the game, when it's ready, and see where it goes from there. I am sure there will be a lot of haters when the game launches, as there is so much misinformation surrounding this game, inspite of the collosal amount of accurate info provided.
Be skeptical. I dont care. I like the game for my reasons and not yours. I don't need a million innovations.
I like 3 way pvp
I like their take on gear
Combt looks incredible
I like flat leveling and their take on questing
and I really like that I can do everything I like at my own pace and not worry about wasting my sub money
Let's cut out the baiting. Respect other user opinions.
Isn't this an example of WoW, the game revolutionised the genre, why can't GW2 do the same?
We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.
Not for your benefit (because I know you can look for it yourself just fine and are baiting), but for the benefit of others who may come by and see this thread, here is the link to the Tao of Arenanet:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/336987/The-Tao-of-Arenanet.html
Well the point I made, that you conveniently cut out, was that most of the GW2 community is comprised of people who are excited for the features that are already in the game and working. Heck, even some people in this very thread have played the game and can testify why they enjoted their experience.
There's a huge difference between blind faith and excitement based on prior knowledge.
First things first, you're idea is wrong. The quote doesn't apply to this either. Second, any MMORPG player should already expect the bugs, the exploits, etc. This comes with being a gamer of any type. It being in development doesn't mean that we're easily "ignoring" these things. We're not playing it so we have nothing to go on. I don't get a pleasant feeling because the game is upcoming, I get excited because of all the proof we've seen in demos. Proof that a company out there really, really cares a whole lot about their product and their reputation. Enough so that they're taking the time and putting in the effort to deliver an excellent gaming experience in a world with rich lore and events that will keep said player engaged. Gaming depression? Why? Because the game is created by imperfect beings for imperfect beings? Why would a GW 2 release lower the goal? It wouldn't. This game is going to set a new bar for the genre. I believe it and I've been playing games since I was about four years old. I've seen enough video and read enough from people that have played the game and continue playing the game to know that this game is going to be epic. Is it going to effect me like a strong drug? I'd hope not. That was a hard chapter of my life I'd like not to repeat. Gaming and drugs are nowhere near the same. Bad comparison. I don't think a game can be said to be best ever unless you've only ever played one game in your entire life. If anything games should only strive to get better and build on the things that work, even if they're from different games. This idea applies to almost every facet of life. Should Henry Ford have never created his line of cars just so people would have a "goal"? Should the Wright bros. just drawn up ideas and never created their planes just so people would be excited of what might be? No. They did the right thing in releasing the tech and pushing society further. Advancement. I fear you'd have had a tough time with the idea of a wheel if you were a neanderthal. Good luck with you mentality. I prefer companies that provide competition for the industry and force others to strive to be better. So good job ANet, I look forward to the release of you product, flawed as it may well be, because It looks darn good and I wanna play it. And if I never get to play it, I won't be depressed. I'll just shrug and look forward to the next good thing in life, whatever that may be. Quick aside, coming Messiah of games is being thrown around a lot. Look at todays world and society, I think the real one isn't far off. And it's not a game.
The premise from this thread is invalidated by the sheer fact that alot of people that had huge expectations about GW2 were amazed by the demo.
People might have great expectations but that doesn't mean that you'll always be disapointed.
my point was that the gw2 community is hostile towards other MMOs (mostly wow and those based on it) beyond what was seen in the gw1 community, the quality of gw2 has nothing to do with this, one can see the quality in a game and not bash another game, I dislike minecraft and tf2, I don't mention them when I talk about MW3 or Skyrim, games that I do like
there is this sense of "we are better gamers because we will play gw2 and not wow" in the gw2 community that I really dislike, just like I dislike elitist attitudes in other gaming communities
GW2 and WoW are very comparable in many ways. So yes, you can mention then when talking about one or the other. It would however be totally crazy to talk about Minecraft in a Skyrim review seeing as they are not comparable in any way what so ever. In the same way that GW1 is not even an MMO.. so it is less comparable to WoW etc.
The bashing you are seeing stems from more than one thing. First of all we have people coming onto the GW2 forums and saying the game is the same as X and 'it's all been done before' and they are clearly baiting. To make matters worse we can't even mention the fact we are looking forward to GW2 and we aren't allowed to level any criticism on any other game like saying 'I dislike that it has quests, those have been done to death. I would prefer to see something different.. kind of like what GW2 is trying to do' or else we just get labeled as rabid fanboys and our comment gets totally dismissed.
Give that much of what is wrong with this genre as a whole comes down to blatent plaguarism (games copying each other) is it nice to see a company making a game such as GW2 (And the likes of ArcheAge or TSW) and trying to challenge and improve upon the aspects and conventions of the MMORPG's that have came before rather than taking the easy route and doing more of the same. So it is only natural that games like WoW, WAR, Aion and SW:TOR get compared to GW2. The thing is, rather than have a decent discussion about it people just shoot us down since we don't want 'more of the same'. I don't claim to speak for everyone but I simply can't imagine someone who loves MMO's not enjoying GW2's Dynamic Events more than they enjoy questing in so yes for some people it can be hard to imagine why GW2's features, and fans, get dismissed without thought. I understand people like other games better than the ones I play and if I do believe that another game is better than I will try explain it rather than just dismiss them. A pity the same is not done for the majority of us who compare previously released, and some upcoming, MMO's to GW2.
I'll leave you with this.. The MMO genre was founded on ambition, not popularity. Games designers had a vision of creating a living, breathing world in which we could all participate and make our own choices. Where the sky was the limit and thousands of people could do what they wanted. Indeed, when you look back on it, the MMO genre itself arguably was founded by 'those stupid sandbox'ers' that everyone loves to make fun of.
Maybe so, but I have yet to see a game released where the masses loved it .
Masses on MMORPG.com =/= MMORPG masses. People here have been saying every game is a failure for years, even when games were doing well, and even when games are still doing well.
Nothing has been a smash hit, out of the ballpark, WoW numbers, but nothing likely will hold subscriptions like that ever again (and WoW doesn't really hold 10M subs anyways, a lot of that is hourly in asia).
So while you may get a ton of positive or negative over a game (sanboxes seem to always be positive here, but not very popular in the mainstream) it isn't indicative of ..normal people.
Nobody here is normal.
Erm, dunno. My expectations on MMO's are pretty low at this point. I just want a well done game (SW:TOR is an example of what is not well done), that's all. If anyone can deliver that, I'll roll with them. Right now, that's EVE.
GW2 is presenting a few features that I find very good improvments over the current paradigm (excluding EVE, of course). No Trinity, dynamic world-bound quests instead of character quests, auto-grouping, and what appears to be better combat. If GW2 can implement those while having room to roam around and stuff to do like kill things, I'll be happy. I played GW1, and GW1 was pretty well done for what it was. If Arena can continue the trend - make the game well done for what it is, then GW2 will be an excellent game in my eyes.
I dint read all the comments because the thread is 10 pages long but here's my 2 cents
I agree with the OP, i think GW2 is overhyped, im not saying its gonna be a bad game, im impatiently waiting for it too but theyve kept us waiting for so long that the hype just grows and grows every time they release something about the game. And its gonna dissapoint a lot of people, people think it's gonna be a perfect or near-perfect game just because the devs say they're gonna release it "when its done".
Other than that, im anxious for gw2's release
Every game so far had something I didn't like.
I already know GW2 will have features that I won't like, and some I will find boring and annoying. There are features I will be missing at launch (housing, for example).
But I'd rather have a game I can play and find enjoyable overall than imagine how it would be to play a perfect, ideal, and sadly nonexistent version of that game.
From GW2 I expect only the already presented features and a certain level of quality.
BTW, I assume GW1 players who follow the GW2 develper blogs and watch gameplay vids have a good idea of what to expect, same for those who played the demos.
Those are, in my belief, also the most ardent GW2 supporters here. It's difficult to speak of overhyping in this case.
I was going to make a comparison between ckicken, caviar, and pudding, but it'll look like I was copying you.
Anyway, as long as I can have my pudding, I don't really care. And I don't expect my pudding to replace the entire menu in the restaurant or even to go around saving the world. It's just a pudding, not a damn hero.
Guild Wars 2 should definitely be released. Just not right on top of The Secret World. I'm hoping both games do really well and if they go head to head, one of them is going to lose some early box purchase numbers.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
There are certainly going to be people who hate and bash every single game that ever comes out, though obviously not the same group of people for every game. For much the same reason, you cannot generalize the term "the masses." There will always be some people who hate the game, and a great many people who love it. Of course, occasionally a game is so bad that only a few people enjoy it while a great many people hate it.
But if you were to only use forums such as these (read: the opinions of an extremely passionate vocal minority) as your measuring stick for how good a game is, you're certainly liable to believe that virtually every game is terrible.
Your point is invalid, because you don't understand what I'm saying.
I'm not saying 'GW2 has the same game systems as GW1, and I believe that's true because they did GW1'
I'm saying 'GW2 has the same declared game philosophy as GW1, and I believe that's true because they did GW1 and they delivered on the same philosophies in that game.'
Same philosophies, different methods of going about it.
Most of the things that 1. They've shown at conventions, 2. Aren't actually hard to do because they're game design philosophies, things that are relatively easy to do most of them, and 3. They've announced as doing, and have no real reason to change.
Like having a low power ceiling, being B2P, or allowing people to be max level in structured PvP. Why would they lie about that? What would would be the POINT? How could they fail to program that if they tried?
I'm hyped simply because its different. I've never played the game yet but I've watched alot of demo's etc. I'm super excited and this will change the MMO industry forever( Only for myself of course I can't speak for anyone else. Thought I was going fanboi didn't you?) This will change my POV on MMO's like WoW did! I've played WoW for several years and I tryed all the other popular MMO/WoW Killers out there. They were basically the same game to me only worse. But GW2 isn't trying to be the best their trying to make a different fun game. I'd like different for a change.
In conclusion I'm excited because the features they've said are in the game are actually "In" the game! Cant wait for GW2 it's going to be awesome.
Translation, please don't release GW2 and siphon off any of the 300k of people still playing TOR.
Ah sweet sweet desperation.