Oh man, to be a BW dev working on PvP must be rather troublesome atm. Kinda like sheparding sharks. While bleeding. And being an baby seal.
I think someone there made a small error in judgement if they thought they could get away with this patch.
They should be used to it by now. Aren't these the same Keystone Cops that set up the Warhammer PvP system and gameplay?
I just picture a day of that team working on matters would be best viewed while the theme from "Benny Hill" plays in the background.
Really though to be fair I'm not sure how much can be realistically done considering how out of whack the faction populations are on some servers least from what I have seen. No matter what they incorporate, revamp, or rethink while it may make some aspects more enjoyable or at least more competitive in theory doesn't really do anything to resolve the underlying issue.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Oh man, to be a BW dev working on PvP must be rather troublesome atm. Kinda like sheparding sharks. While bleeding. And being an baby seal.
I think someone there made a small error in judgement if they thought they could get away with this patch.
They should be used to it by now. Aren't these the same Keystone Cops that set up the Warhammer PvP system and gameplay?
I just picture a day of that team working on matters would be best viewed while the theme from "Benny Hill" plays in the background.
Really though to be fair I'm not sure how much can be realistically done considering how out of whack the faction populations are on some servers least from what I have seen. No matter what they while it may make some aspects more enjoyable or at least more competitive in theory doesn't really do anything to resolve the underlying issue.
Well I would be suprised if it weren't the same WAR devs that worked on PVP in this game.
Warhammer Online:
- Make Chaos look way cooler/nicer than Order
- Only two factions
- Massive imbalance between factions.... Chaos outnumbering Order on pretty much every server.
SW:TOR
- Make Empire look way cooler/nicer than Republic
- Only two factions
- Massive imbalance between factions.... Empire outnumbering Republic on pretty much every server.
- Massive imbalance between factions.... Empire outnumbering Republic on pretty much every server.
Boy you aren't kidding with this one. I mean this certainly isn;t the first game to come along to suffer from this. But in this game?
Holy shit...I have honestly never seen it skewed so bad. It's really almost comical at this point long as you don't take it personal.
What makes it even more amusing is I get the sense from a lot of players that it may actually get worse thanks in part to this patch. Didn't think that was possible.
But apparently they found a way to piss off the last forty or so that were staying Republic XD
On a serious note, really though even without this pacth unless they do something the numbers are going to get even worse far as the difference between the two sides. All this may have done is sped up the inevitable a bit for some.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Theres not much else they can do... if people are just going to let each faction farm eachother then it doesn't matter what they put in place, they'll just coordinate with the other faction. Players are whats killing the open world PvP.
Players will always find loopholes in systems, and they have zero reason to think there is anything wrong with it if the game allows for it. It's up to the developer to design the game so these things can't happen, or to discourage them effectively. Blaming players is the cheap way out.
and this is why you can't give players freedom. because many players are a**holes and will exploit and screw over others as quick as they can.
this is why FFA PVP will be nothing but a niche for online sociopaths because while the concept of having a open world where you are free to do whatever you want sounds awesome in concept, it will utlimately be populated by the cesspool of gamers. whos only goal in the game is to make another gamer life a living hell in that game.
thats why i play Skyrim and I am playing SWTOR as a COOP game (i ignore general chat and only group with the 2 family members) because the players ruin the game. just yesterday my wife and I killed some mobs to get a node only to have a 50 swoop in and take it as we attack and laugh at us when i told him we were fighting to get the node.
Yeah, its really the pop balance which is the core issue here, apart from any valor exploits ofc. But really, they could have made Jedi "cool", look at the intro movies the reps are epic in that.
Yet instead of playing like Bastile shan in the intro and have those epic moves ... you get a guy in a shaggy bathrobe throwing pebbles like a gypsi and wearing a LS thats obviously only serving ornamental purposes ... I take that sith lightning now thankyouverymuch.
Same for the trooper, the BH looks awesome, shoots flames and farts rockets while having some really slick moves. The trooper is just a mess of mismatched armorpieces that makes it really hard to fathom should resemble some kind of official uniform/armor ...
Only Republic class they got right is the smuggler, and thats apparently the only class more popular than its mirror ... WTG BW.
On my server the ilum pops are pretty equal. Unfortunately the game is unplayable for me when there's 100 players in one area and the ranged classes just spam attacks and farm valor like crazy. Melee go in and get crushed immediately.
It's really disappointing that BW seem to make the mistakes other companies have made or smartly avoided. My playtime is about to run out and this pretty much put the nail on the coffin for me. So much promise and so many dumb design decisions.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
Theres not much else they can do... if people are just going to let each faction farm eachother then it doesn't matter what they put in place, they'll just coordinate with the other faction. Players are whats killing the open world PvP.
Players will always find loopholes in systems, and they have zero reason to think there is anything wrong with it if the game allows for it. It's up to the developer to design the game so these things can't happen, or to discourage them effectively. Blaming players is the cheap way out.
and this is why you can't give players freedom. because many players are a**holes and will exploit and screw over others as quick as they can.
this is why FFA PVP will be nothing but a niche for online sociopaths because while the concept of having a open world where you are free to do whatever you want sounds awesome in concept, it will utlimately be populated by the cesspool of gamers. whos only goal in the game is to make another gamer life a living hell in that game.
thats why i play Skyrim and I am playing SWTOR as a COOP game (i ignore general chat and only group with the 2 family members) because the players ruin the game. just yesterday my wife and I killed some mobs to get a node only to have a 50 swoop in and take it as we attack and laugh at us when i told him we were fighting to get the node.
"lolz kill faster"
/rant off
Me thinks you are in the wrong genre.
No, really, if you hate people so much, why are you playing Massive Multiplayer Online Games?
Go back to single player RPGs please, i don't buy FPS and then rant on forums about how much i hate to shoot things, it doesn't make sense.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
Im not. What im wondering is if they have actually played an mmo with pvp before (devs). spawn point camping is so 90's
Im on the same boat now
First it was funny, looking at Bioware eating some reality check, they really deserve it.
But the game is FUN, and PVP is just terrible, now, it will be even worse.
Now, another arrogant statement from Bioware would be a game-breaker.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
Theres not much else they can do... if people are just going to let each faction farm eachother then it doesn't matter what they put in place, they'll just coordinate with the other faction. Players are whats killing the open world PvP.
There are tons of things they can do. For one thing they can make PvP farming a bannable offense, this has been done in other games. More over they can make it less rewarding to PvP farm by having timers for killing the same player.
So dont come with that BS that nothing can be done and everything is the fault of the players. ALOT can be done.
And you'd be back saying how awful it is they're banning players... Just look what happened when they banned or warned exploiters.
If they put limitations in, all of those who continually bash the game would be saying they're taking away player choice and freedom. IMO no matter what they do it will be the wrong thing to do according to those on forums.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You know if this was politics and not game developement i would advise looking back and learning of the mistakes of the past, while keeping an eye on how other countries might make some things better and take notes from them.
But obviously no politician would take advise like that, and i think MMO devs are even more averse to learning from mistakes than politicians.
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by maskedweasel
Theres not much else they can do... if people are just going to let each faction farm eachother then it doesn't matter what they put in place, they'll just coordinate with the other faction. Players are whats killing the open world PvP.
There are tons of things they can do. For one thing they can make PvP farming a bannable offense, this has been done in other games. More over they can make it less rewarding to PvP farm by having timers for killing the same player. So dont come with that BS that nothing can be done and everything is the fault of the players. ALOT can be done. And you'd be back saying how awful it is they're banning players... Just look what happened when they banned or warned exploiters. If they put limitations in, all of those who continually bash the game would be saying they're taking away player choice and freedom. IMO no matter what they do it will be the wrong thing to do according to those on forums.
Of course he would, and he did in fact when BioWare was banning people for Ilum exploits...
Originally posted by Yamota
Hm, is this really a bannable offense? Sounds more like poor game design as they did not seem to be using any loopholes or exploits but rather just use the faction allegience to their advantage.
Originally posted by Yamota
Why? They are doing something which the game allows them to do which imo is a ban for the devs rather than the players. Sounds to me that Bioware is trying to push the blame on the players for what is clearly either poor game design or an oversight on their part. But my point of view comes from playing sandbox games and I often try to go away from the linear path which Themeparks want you to take.
Theres not much else they can do... if people are just going to let each faction farm eachother then it doesn't matter what they put in place, they'll just coordinate with the other faction. Players are whats killing the open world PvP.
There are tons of things they can do. For one thing they can make PvP farming a bannable offense, this has been done in other games. More over they can make it less rewarding to PvP farm by having timers for killing the same player.
So dont come with that BS that nothing can be done and everything is the fault of the players. ALOT can be done.
And you'd be back saying how awful it is they're banning players... Just look what happened when they banned or warned exploiters.
If they put limitations in, all of those who continually bash the game would be saying they're taking away player choice and freedom. IMO no matter what they do it will be the wrong thing to do according to those on forums.
Of course he would, and he did in fact when BioWare was banning people for Ilum exploits...
Originally posted by Yamota
Hm, is this really a bannable offense? Sounds more like poor game design as they did not seem to be using any loopholes or exploits but rather just use the faction allegience to their advantage.
Originally posted by Yamota
Why? They are doing something which the game allows them to do which imo is a ban for the devs rather than the players. Sounds to me that Bioware is trying to push the blame on the players for what is clearly either poor game design or an oversight on their part.
But my point of view comes from playing sandbox games and I often try to go away from the linear path which Themeparks want you to take.
I think this is actually very similar to the whole container exploit that happened earlier. I didn't think people should have gotten banned for that. And I don't think they should get banned for this.
Let's just say they are both an "unintended result" of a society interacting with a flawed system.
Originally posted by Creslin321 I think this is actually very similar to the whole container exploit that happened earlier. I didn't think people should have gotten banned for that. And I don't think they should get banned for this. Let's just say they are both an "unintended result" of a society interacting with a flawed system.
Not going to start the discussion about what is an exploit again...
My point was that there is no right for BioWare, there will always be people complaining.
You ban the exploiters, people will qq for banning them. You do not ban the exploiters, people will qq for not banning them.
I think this is actually very similar to the whole container exploit that happened earlier. I didn't think people should have gotten banned for that. And I don't think they should get banned for this.
Let's just say they are both an "unintended result" of a society interacting with a flawed system.
According to Reid no one was actually banned for that, only warned or suspended.
Flawed? Maybe... Unintended? definitely.
The goal here is to not allow your opponent the points/rewards for capturing points. Problem is people are allowing it. It would be the same if people did this in any other point capture design such as BF3 or WAR, typically people don't allow the enemy that luxury.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
i applaude BW, this is the new and innovative hardcore pvp mode: "There is no escape, logout now or be forever farmed!" They even reward the offenders, brilliant. THUMBS UP from me!
Comments
Oh man, to be a BW dev working on PvP must be rather troublesome atm. Kinda like sheparding sharks. While bleeding. And being an baby seal.
I think someone there made a small error in judgement if they thought they could get away with this patch.
They should be used to it by now. Aren't these the same Keystone Cops that set up the Warhammer PvP system and gameplay?
I just picture a day of that team working on matters would be best viewed while the theme from "Benny Hill" plays in the background.
Really though to be fair I'm not sure how much can be realistically done considering how out of whack the faction populations are on some servers least from what I have seen. No matter what they incorporate, revamp, or rethink while it may make some aspects more enjoyable or at least more competitive in theory doesn't really do anything to resolve the underlying issue.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Well I would be suprised if it weren't the same WAR devs that worked on PVP in this game.
Warhammer Online:
- Make Chaos look way cooler/nicer than Order
- Only two factions
- Massive imbalance between factions.... Chaos outnumbering Order on pretty much every server.
SW:TOR
- Make Empire look way cooler/nicer than Republic
- Only two factions
- Massive imbalance between factions.... Empire outnumbering Republic on pretty much every server.
Boy you aren't kidding with this one. I mean this certainly isn;t the first game to come along to suffer from this. But in this game?
Holy shit...I have honestly never seen it skewed so bad. It's really almost comical at this point long as you don't take it personal.
What makes it even more amusing is I get the sense from a lot of players that it may actually get worse thanks in part to this patch. Didn't think that was possible.
But apparently they found a way to piss off the last forty or so that were staying Republic XD
On a serious note, really though even without this pacth unless they do something the numbers are going to get even worse far as the difference between the two sides. All this may have done is sped up the inevitable a bit for some.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
and this is why you can't give players freedom. because many players are a**holes and will exploit and screw over others as quick as they can.
this is why FFA PVP will be nothing but a niche for online sociopaths because while the concept of having a open world where you are free to do whatever you want sounds awesome in concept, it will utlimately be populated by the cesspool of gamers. whos only goal in the game is to make another gamer life a living hell in that game.
thats why i play Skyrim and I am playing SWTOR as a COOP game (i ignore general chat and only group with the 2 family members) because the players ruin the game. just yesterday my wife and I killed some mobs to get a node only to have a 50 swoop in and take it as we attack and laugh at us when i told him we were fighting to get the node.
"lolz kill faster"
/rant off
Yeah, its really the pop balance which is the core issue here, apart from any valor exploits ofc. But really, they could have made Jedi "cool", look at the intro movies the reps are epic in that.
Yet instead of playing like Bastile shan in the intro and have those epic moves ... you get a guy in a shaggy bathrobe throwing pebbles like a gypsi and wearing a LS thats obviously only serving ornamental purposes ... I take that sith lightning now thankyouverymuch.
Same for the trooper, the BH looks awesome, shoots flames and farts rockets while having some really slick moves. The trooper is just a mess of mismatched armorpieces that makes it really hard to fathom should resemble some kind of official uniform/armor ...
Only Republic class they got right is the smuggler, and thats apparently the only class more popular than its mirror ... WTG BW.
On my server the ilum pops are pretty equal. Unfortunately the game is unplayable for me when there's 100 players in one area and the ranged classes just spam attacks and farm valor like crazy. Melee go in and get crushed immediately.
It's really disappointing that BW seem to make the mistakes other companies have made or smartly avoided. My playtime is about to run out and this pretty much put the nail on the coffin for me. So much promise and so many dumb design decisions.
Im literally laughing my ass off right now.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
Me thinks you are in the wrong genre.
No, really, if you hate people so much, why are you playing Massive Multiplayer Online Games?
Go back to single player RPGs please, i don't buy FPS and then rant on forums about how much i hate to shoot things, it doesn't make sense.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
Im not. What im wondering is if they have actually played an mmo with pvp before (devs). spawn point camping is so 90's
They have mythic on board. The guys who did DAoC and Warhamm.... ohh.
@Spaceport
He plays MMORPGs because he hates people, not despite. Thats true of most MMO players imho.
Im on the same boat now
First it was funny, looking at Bioware eating some reality check, they really deserve it.
But the game is FUN, and PVP is just terrible, now, it will be even worse.
Now, another arrogant statement from Bioware would be a game-breaker.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
yes probably the janitors since they did promote a community manager up as a DEV manager hence warhammer failed.
And you'd be back saying how awful it is they're banning players... Just look what happened when they banned or warned exploiters.
If they put limitations in, all of those who continually bash the game would be saying they're taking away player choice and freedom. IMO no matter what they do it will be the wrong thing to do according to those on forums.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You know if this was politics and not game developement i would advise looking back and learning of the mistakes of the past, while keeping an eye on how other countries might make some things better and take notes from them.
But obviously no politician would take advise like that, and i think MMO devs are even more averse to learning from mistakes than politicians.
So dont come with that BS that nothing can be done and everything is the fault of the players. ALOT can be done.
And you'd be back saying how awful it is they're banning players... Just look what happened when they banned or warned exploiters.
If they put limitations in, all of those who continually bash the game would be saying they're taking away player choice and freedom. IMO no matter what they do it will be the wrong thing to do according to those on forums.
Of course he would, and he did in fact when BioWare was banning people for Ilum exploits...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/337148/page/1
I think this is actually very similar to the whole container exploit that happened earlier. I didn't think people should have gotten banned for that. And I don't think they should get banned for this.
Let's just say they are both an "unintended result" of a society interacting with a flawed system.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I don't see what the problem is. If this irritates you, form a group and go kill all the opposite side.
should someone get banned if they dont go on forums or look on websites about the issue what simply are just playing the game?
"So wanna go farm some republic?"
True chat line i saw
I'm not waiting for any fixes. Clearly this company has no comprehension, nor interest, in world class faction conflict.So I cancelled an hour ago.
Not going to start the discussion about what is an exploit again...
My point was that there is no right for BioWare, there will always be people complaining.
You ban the exploiters, people will qq for banning them.
You do not ban the exploiters, people will qq for not banning them.
According to Reid no one was actually banned for that, only warned or suspended.
Flawed? Maybe... Unintended? definitely.
The goal here is to not allow your opponent the points/rewards for capturing points. Problem is people are allowing it. It would be the same if people did this in any other point capture design such as BF3 or WAR, typically people don't allow the enemy that luxury.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
i applaude BW, this is the new and innovative hardcore pvp mode: "There is no escape, logout now or be forever farmed!" They even reward the offenders, brilliant. THUMBS UP from me!