Imo, this is exactly the type of content Trion needs to be working on more often and not putting it in as an afterthought, which is what they've been doing. This is the type of content the ex-WoW fans want to see that they have as subs, not the raiding.
I think it's a good idea that you post your datamined content about this new raid info here on a third-party site and NOT on the Rift official General forums. If the people on that site see that Trion is planning new raids before addressing their PvP concerns and other content issues, it probably would be the last straw from what my buddy was telling me (who's still playing atm).
This type of news would be well received though, looks good.
Instant Adventure is the worst idea I've ever seen for an MMO. It's unreal that someone at Trion thought it would be a good idea to create a lobby system for quest chains. Add that to their instanced PvP and their LFG feature, and there really is no reason to do anything with your toon other that wait for queues. Worst. Idea. Ever.
They simply gave people what they were asking for. Many of the casual and people not yet 50 wanted something else other than quest grinding at hubs.
Trion knows they didn't have enough zones so if someone rerolls, they'd be so bored stiff by the second toon because the areas are too small and they've done all the content already.
They were giving 50s EI already, so they HAD to give people in the lower levels.. something as an alternative as well.
IA is aimed at 50s. 45+ can do em, but at 45 you have plenty of options already
Instant Adventure is the worst idea I've ever seen for an MMO. It's unreal that someone at Trion thought it would be a good idea to create a lobby system for quest chains. Add that to their instanced PvP and their LFG feature, and there really is no reason to do anything with your toon other that wait for queues. Worst. Idea. Ever.
Isn't it basically the next logical step of the LFG system? If you ask me this is where the "lfg system" should have gone before it went x-server for alot of servers in WoW. It does need some fine tuning, but Trion is well aware they have the playerbases support on trying new stuff.
It is not like some huge time investment after you actually get to see it. They are doing what they do best as a new mmo dev. Take what you have and use every possible variation of it.
IA is aimed at 50s. 45+ can do em, but at 45 you have plenty of options already
Egad! Then I stand corrected on this one.. Cthuluhu may have a point then.
I thought the whole idea behind the IA was for "mid level" content and people not yet 50 since most of the 50 content is about the raid wheel. I know when I left in October, most of the people who didn't re-up after the six month sub expressed quite a bit of displeasure with not enough alternatives which is why they had Chronicles (which also got old fast for me) and were later adding IA.
I guess Trion isn't learning as much as I thought...
having said all that, i thought rift had a lot of potential. it had some great ideas. but it quickly became a raiding-focussed thing we just weren't into.
I have 3 pieces of gear on right now that I got only doing Rifts. Like I said before there are a lot of people in this thread who have not played Rift in 5-6 months.
There is a vendor who gives raid level gear for doing zone events. It is not a raid or die game like some people try and paint it. I do not understand the need to comment 5-6 months after you quit a game about something that is out dated information.
It is still not a pvp game, so I would hold out for GW2 if that is what you want. No instanced raiding at all and no gear chase = best pvp'rs in the world will flock to that game and most people will be surprised how bad they get drilled.
Not to mention, I'm on my way to my first piece of raid gear, and I've never stepped into a raid.
Not planar gear. Not stuff from doing events. RAID gear.
Raiding in Rift can't be the end all-be all, because you don't have to raid to get the gear. You only get it faster doing raids, but the same gear can be got by doing 5 man dungeons.
None of them take an overly long time to do, and you can pug them.
People just hate to hate, but no one condemning Rfit has a single valid excuse for hating other then they just want to hate.
People just hate to hate, but no one condemning Rfit has a single valid excuse for hating other then they just want to hate.
I'll hit on Rift for the actual weak points which is stuff mmorpg and other sites all listed like smaller then normal world or the classes changes comes faster then you are used to because of the update schedule.
Some of the goofy stuff like saying "quality over quantity" to me when WoW just banned over 100 of their top guilds for 8 days for exploiting the LFR feature and dropped two hot fixes with huge bug fixes does not process in my head and just seems like a sorry excuse.
People just hate to hate, but no one condemning Rfit has a single valid excuse for hating other then they just want to hate.
Rift is a game that has bled subs since the day it launched. there are obviously valid reasons to not like it. If it was like EvE or WoW or EQ1 or FFXI or DAoC or even LOTRO that didnt suffer a large population drop and continued to grow throughout its first year then maybe you can say that.. If it was so great it wouldnt have gone from 58 heavily populated NA servers to 27 NA servers, 6 of which are dead and only one is as heavily populated as the first month or two.
There are *plenty* of valid reasons out there. Just not everything applies to everyone.
For instance, you wrote how you are getting raid gear without raiding. For many people that is a big negative and is part of the reason why many are unhappy with WoW...the risk vs reward is severely out of whack.
Rift is a game that has bled subs since the day it launched. there are obviously valid reasons to not like it. If it was like EvE or WoW or EQ1 or FFXI or DAoC or even LOTRO that didnt suffer a large population drop and continued to grow throughout its first year then maybe you can say that.. If it was so great it wouldnt have gone from 58 heavily populated NA servers to 27 NA servers, 6 of which are dead and only one is as heavily populated as the first month or two.
Do try and take off the rose colored glasses before talking to a MMO vet
. WoW vanilla got HAMMERED in subs when it first launched because it was extremely buggy up until about 6 months in with massive disconnects and slow hotfixes. It gained mass popularity after Sony screwed up EQ for the last time and guilds started jumping ship left and right.
. EQ1 - complete and utter grindfest
. FF11 seriously? You want to sit here and tell me this game did not take severe hits when it first launch and has become the definition of a nice game?
. DAoC...come on man?
. Eve - one word Monacle Gate
. LOTR population got so bad it had to go Free to play seriously
Rift might not be the WoW killer, but do not try and lump it in with Aion or WAR that took massive hits due to poor developement. If Rift is such a piece of trash then go ahead and explain why TOR and WoW feel the need to copy features from it....AoE looting? Master mode instances for 5 man...Murderball?
Also if you reallllllly want to go there when I logged onto that starter WoW edition account last night I had to scroll through about 40-50 low pop servers before I even hit the first medium pop server.
I am not blind to the fact that yes we are not at 500+ person queue's every night like it used to be, but this sure is not how Aion was 8 months in. If anything it has stabalized nicely and is growing.
. WoW vanilla got HAMMERED in subs when it first launched because it was extremely buggy up until about 6 months in with massive disconnects and slow hotfixes. It gained mass popularity after Sony screwed up EQ for the last time and guilds started jumping ship left and right.
Huh? the total population of EQ1 + EQ2 is a fraction of WoW's NA/EU subs. WoW's popularity has absolutely nothing to do with EQ other than EQ's success probably being the reason WoW was made.
. EQ1 - complete and utter grindfest
Grind dungeons, grind reputations, grind dailies, grind rifts, grind PvP ranks...just because invasions are fun the first couple times you do a particular one doesnt disguise the fact that Rift is just as grindy, but in a different way
. FF11 seriously? You want to sit here and tell me this game did not take severe hits when it first launch and has become the definition of a nice game?
. DAoC...come on man?
. Eve - one word Monacle Gate
. LOTR population got so bad it had to go Free to play seriously
Again your ignorance is showing. LOTRO went Free to play because of the huge success turbine had with DDO.
But all of these games showed growth across their first year of existence (most showed growth for 3 or 4) Rift has not. You may not like the games, but they are all successful.
Rift might not be the WoW killer, but do not try and lump it in with Aion or WAR that took massive hits due to poor developement. If Rift is such a piece of trash then go ahead and explain why TOR and WoW feel the need to copy features from it....AoE looting? Master mode instances for 5 man...Murderball?
If WAR is such a peice of trash then why did Rift CENTER ITS GAME AROUND ONE OF ITS MECHANICS? And come on, Master mode dungeons....How innovatine. instead of TWO levels of difficulty, well add...a THIRD!!!! *mind blown*. I didnt see either game add a 3rd level of dungeon difficulty anyway.
Rift is kind of unique in that it was complete and polished but hasnt done all that well. EQ2 was in fairly good shape at launch, but was disappointing because it wasnt similar to EQ1 and was released at the same time as WoW. Still the dropoff wasnt quite as large %wise as Rift, at least not in as short of a time.
Rift's dropoff is nowhere near WAR or AoC though, it is far more healthy than those.
Also if you reallllllly want to go there when I logged onto that starter WoW edition account last night I had to scroll through about 40-50 low pop servers before I even hit the first medium pop server.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/status Right now about 50 WoW servers are low pop. Almost all of those are PvP servers, and there have been too many PvP servers since they made too many at BC launch. There are about 10 PvP servers that have been low pop since 2006. Still, thats less than 25% are low pop at 5pm est, nowhere near a peak time. You will also find about 40 High pop servers , which is about 16%. Now head on over to http://www.riftstatus.com/ and see that of 27 NA servers 60% of them are low pop and none are high
I am not blind to the fact that yes we are not at 500+ person queue's every night like it used to be, but this sure is not how Aion was 8 months in. If anything it has stabilized nicely and is growing
And the italics is where you are completely blind.
http://www.riftstatus.net/shards/na/stats Week after week after week after week activity is down. Even with the transfers off the dead servers not showing as negative activity (cant get below low all the time) and adding to the other server's activity (3 servers shut down this week) its *still* negative week after week. If you think Rift is currently growing you are an ostrich with its head in the sand.
I think Rift is a decent middle of the pack MMORPG. Its probably about the same quality level of SWTOR (for different reasons) but it has a very active development team so the people that really enjoy it should be very happy. Nothing wrong with defending the game you love, but dont sit here and try to deny that its trending the wrong way as far as population. And dont talk about how bad LOTRO and EQ2 must have been to go free to play when theres a decent chance their subs after a full year will be greater than Rift's subs after a full year (both were about 250k)
Rift fills a niche. It's made for the top 5% raiders. Once you understand that, you'll feel better about the game in general. I'm enjoying that aspect but it does get tiring being unable to replace members for progression if they decide to quit. That's the major flaw currently.
Personally, i would like to see a lot more meaningful non raid content to keep people logging in every day. Dailies are not the way to go and wish this feature would go away for good.
Originally posted by Puremallace I would not say it is all re-used. This is the Crystal Cavern in Infernal Dawn and you can see the base file used to construct all of it.
I'm not saying Trion rehashes ALL of their content, that simply isn't true.
But they rehashed enough of it in my six months that I was left unimpressed by the claim "We put out content faster than anyone else".
There were dungeons that were unique and didn't remind me of anything (ROTF) but most of their dungeons had that "familiar" feel which after awhile dampened enthusiasm to participate in them. Kind of like the world events.. they aren't "re-used" in that it's a water event, death event, life event, etc.. but they certainly are in what type of content and data points are re-allocated over like town quests and invasion trigger points.
I would not say it is all re-used. This is the Crystal Cavern in Infernal Dawn and you can see the base file used to construct all of it.
I'm not saying Trion rehashes ALL of their content, that simply isn't true.
But they rehashed enough of it in my six months that I was left unimpressed by the claim "We put out content faster than anyone else".
There were dungeons that were unique and didn't remind me of anything (ROTF) but most of their dungeons had that "familiar" feel which after awhile dampened enthusiasm to participate in them. Kind of like the world events.. they aren't "re-used" in that it's a water event, death event, life event, etc.. but they certainly are in what type of content and data points are re-allocated over like town quests and invasion trigger points.
I believe they said they are changing up the world events after this one. They better, because they have gone way downhill since river of souls.. It is the all the same, you are right. Just instead of death rifts or water rifts or fire/earth rifts its now Air rifts. And its still mostly kill x mobs, kill more mobs than x, kill boss, kill x mobs, kill a tougher boss. that right there describes about 85% of rifts.
Originally posted by teakbois I believe they said they are changing up the world events after this one. They better, because they have gone way downhill since river of souls.. It is the all the same, you are right. Just instead of death rifts or water rifts or fire/earth rifts its now Air rifts. And its still mostly kill x mobs, kill more mobs than x, kill boss, kill x mobs, kill a tougher boss. that right there describes about 85% of rifts.
This is the part I haven't understood about Trion since Launch.
In beta, CLEARLY by anyone's count the draw of the game was rifts. No one was talking about how "great" IT and ROTF was. The dungeons were an afterthought in relation to the open world rifting. The name of the game was Rift and people were happy to see it.
Fast forward to now, and rifts are an afterthought in this game barely above the amount of time they spend thinking about PvP apparently. Instead, dungeon after dungeon (with all their various modes), raids, and grinding dailies have taken the game over.
While I appreciate the news Pure posted here with the shots, I cannot believe that someone who has played Rift in the past looks at this info and what Pure thinks it will be (probably accurate) that a new RAID is coming will make them go "Woohoo! This is why I left Rift.. not enough raiding! I'm gonna resub!"
I don't think Trion gets it at all, unless they have some sort of secret poll that we all can't see where they know their playerbase wants more of this type of content before anything else. Heck, I don't think 3/4ths of the people in the game even finished Hammerknell yet so what's the deal with another raid and more dungeons?
I believe they said they are changing up the world events after this one. They better, because they have gone way downhill since river of souls.. It is the all the same, you are right. Just instead of death rifts or water rifts or fire/earth rifts its now Air rifts. And its still mostly kill x mobs, kill more mobs than x, kill boss, kill x mobs, kill a tougher boss. that right there describes about 85% of rifts.
It is all about presentation. When you break it down what other MMO throws new mounts and entire vanity ward drobes at you every 6 weeks or so and does not charge you for it?
The world events are pretty damn cool actually when you look at the vendor rewards it is really unique. The problem some people have is the daily quest to get the items have started to repeat and that gets annoying. They did have some unique ones like the race around sanctum as a sea crab got good reviews or matching up the musical notes one.
It is sort of what you hear from TOR. The story quest seemed really cool, but the side quest are more repetitive. I think it is more a genre thing. Daily quest can be done in no time flat so I am not complaining.
I believe they said they are changing up the world events after this one. They better, because they have gone way downhill since river of souls.. It is the all the same, you are right. Just instead of death rifts or water rifts or fire/earth rifts its now Air rifts. And its still mostly kill x mobs, kill more mobs than x, kill boss, kill x mobs, kill a tougher boss. that right there describes about 85% of rifts.
It is all about presentation. When you break it down what other MMO throws new mounts and entire vanity ward drobes at you every 6 weeks or so and does not charge you for it?
The world events are pretty damn cool actually when you look at the vendor rewards it is really unique. The problem some people have is the daily quest to get the items have started to repeat and that gets annoying. They did have some unique ones like the race around sanctum as a sea crab got good reviews or matching up the musical notes one.
It is sort of what you hear from TOR. The story quest seemed really cool, but the side quest are more repetitive. I think it is more a genre thing. Daily quest can be done in no time flat so I am not complaining.
That also sums up pretty much every MMO out there. I can't understand why people use kill X arguement or gather X things to say that an MMO is bad. That's the basis of just about every GAME that has fighting as a main feature.
They're currently patching in the update to move to stage 2 of the current world event, I'm interested to see what the next phase entails. I'm sure it'll be more closing rifts or killing more mobs, but then, that's how games work.
As far as whether or not Trion uses the same content to make new content, that's kind of a duh statement to make. Developers don't spend weeks or months building art assets to only use once; that would stupid and inefficient on thier part. Squre screwed up with FFIV because they didn't create ENOUGH assets to make the landscape varied. Developers don't create entirely new and unique assets for every bit of the game, they reuse the peices they build and build enough peices that they don't repeate endlessly in anyone one area to be noticed. It would be silly of trion to create entirely different lava clusters for every area that had a lava cluster; they make a half dozen or so and use the one that fits for the area they're building, and don't disperse them next to each other so that it's noticeable.
As an aside, I don't understand why my posts were deleted. Is the OP not about a new raid being developed? I can post in this thread that all trion cares about is raiding, that they're only catering to raids, that the game is raid or die, that they only rehash the same content, that it's all kill X mobs or gather X items, but If I respond to a post about raiding in Rift and indicate taht it's not neccesary and that you can get the same gear without doing a single raid that post will get deleted?
Comments
IA is aimed at 50s. 45+ can do em, but at 45 you have plenty of options already
Isn't it basically the next logical step of the LFG system? If you ask me this is where the "lfg system" should have gone before it went x-server for alot of servers in WoW. It does need some fine tuning, but Trion is well aware they have the playerbases support on trying new stuff.
It is not like some huge time investment after you actually get to see it. They are doing what they do best as a new mmo dev. Take what you have and use every possible variation of it.
I thought the whole idea behind the IA was for "mid level" content and people not yet 50 since most of the 50 content is about the raid wheel. I know when I left in October, most of the people who didn't re-up after the six month sub expressed quite a bit of displeasure with not enough alternatives which is why they had Chronicles (which also got old fast for me) and were later adding IA.
I guess Trion isn't learning as much as I thought...
"TO MICHAEL!"
Not to mention, I'm on my way to my first piece of raid gear, and I've never stepped into a raid.
Not planar gear. Not stuff from doing events. RAID gear.
Raiding in Rift can't be the end all-be all, because you don't have to raid to get the gear. You only get it faster doing raids, but the same gear can be got by doing 5 man dungeons.
None of them take an overly long time to do, and you can pug them.
People just hate to hate, but no one condemning Rfit has a single valid excuse for hating other then they just want to hate.
Let's stay on topic. This is about the OP, not SWTOR vs Rift.
I'll hit on Rift for the actual weak points which is stuff mmorpg and other sites all listed like smaller then normal world or the classes changes comes faster then you are used to because of the update schedule.
Some of the goofy stuff like saying "quality over quantity" to me when WoW just banned over 100 of their top guilds for 8 days for exploiting the LFR feature and dropped two hot fixes with huge bug fixes does not process in my head and just seems like a sorry excuse.
Rift is a game that has bled subs since the day it launched. there are obviously valid reasons to not like it. If it was like EvE or WoW or EQ1 or FFXI or DAoC or even LOTRO that didnt suffer a large population drop and continued to grow throughout its first year then maybe you can say that.. If it was so great it wouldnt have gone from 58 heavily populated NA servers to 27 NA servers, 6 of which are dead and only one is as heavily populated as the first month or two.
There are *plenty* of valid reasons out there. Just not everything applies to everyone.
For instance, you wrote how you are getting raid gear without raiding. For many people that is a big negative and is part of the reason why many are unhappy with WoW...the risk vs reward is severely out of whack.
Do try and take off the rose colored glasses before talking to a MMO vet
. WoW vanilla got HAMMERED in subs when it first launched because it was extremely buggy up until about 6 months in with massive disconnects and slow hotfixes. It gained mass popularity after Sony screwed up EQ for the last time and guilds started jumping ship left and right.
. EQ1 - complete and utter grindfest
. FF11 seriously? You want to sit here and tell me this game did not take severe hits when it first launch and has become the definition of a nice game?
. DAoC...come on man?
. Eve - one word Monacle Gate
. LOTR population got so bad it had to go Free to play seriously
Rift might not be the WoW killer, but do not try and lump it in with Aion or WAR that took massive hits due to poor developement. If Rift is such a piece of trash then go ahead and explain why TOR and WoW feel the need to copy features from it....AoE looting? Master mode instances for 5 man...Murderball?
Also if you reallllllly want to go there when I logged onto that starter WoW edition account last night I had to scroll through about 40-50 low pop servers before I even hit the first medium pop server.
I am not blind to the fact that yes we are not at 500+ person queue's every night like it used to be, but this sure is not how Aion was 8 months in. If anything it has stabalized nicely and is growing.
I think Rift is a decent middle of the pack MMORPG. Its probably about the same quality level of SWTOR (for different reasons) but it has a very active development team so the people that really enjoy it should be very happy. Nothing wrong with defending the game you love, but dont sit here and try to deny that its trending the wrong way as far as population. And dont talk about how bad LOTRO and EQ2 must have been to go free to play when theres a decent chance their subs after a full year will be greater than Rift's subs after a full year (both were about 250k)
Rift fills a niche. It's made for the top 5% raiders. Once you understand that, you'll feel better about the game in general. I'm enjoying that aspect but it does get tiring being unable to replace members for progression if they decide to quit. That's the major flaw currently.
Personally, i would like to see a lot more meaningful non raid content to keep people logging in every day. Dailies are not the way to go and wish this feature would go away for good.
Just looking at the pic called "Dream Hive" and it looks kinda fam.. oh.
Deepstrike Mines, Darkening Deeps. Both have those sames windy, paths. Trion sure loves winding pathways in their dungeons.
Deepstrike
Darkening Deeps
"Dream Hive"
No wonder they can pump out content so quick. Looks like they just save all the models.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I would not say it is all re-used. This is the Crystal Cavern in Infernal Dawn and you can see the base file used to construct all of it.
The Nif viewer very clearly indicates what is recycled and what is original.
But they rehashed enough of it in my six months that I was left unimpressed by the claim "We put out content faster than anyone else".
There were dungeons that were unique and didn't remind me of anything (ROTF) but most of their dungeons had that "familiar" feel which after awhile dampened enthusiasm to participate in them. Kind of like the world events.. they aren't "re-used" in that it's a water event, death event, life event, etc.. but they certainly are in what type of content and data points are re-allocated over like town quests and invasion trigger points.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I believe they said they are changing up the world events after this one. They better, because they have gone way downhill since river of souls.. It is the all the same, you are right. Just instead of death rifts or water rifts or fire/earth rifts its now Air rifts. And its still mostly kill x mobs, kill more mobs than x, kill boss, kill x mobs, kill a tougher boss. that right there describes about 85% of rifts.
In beta, CLEARLY by anyone's count the draw of the game was rifts. No one was talking about how "great" IT and ROTF was. The dungeons were an afterthought in relation to the open world rifting. The name of the game was Rift and people were happy to see it.
Fast forward to now, and rifts are an afterthought in this game barely above the amount of time they spend thinking about PvP apparently. Instead, dungeon after dungeon (with all their various modes), raids, and grinding dailies have taken the game over.
While I appreciate the news Pure posted here with the shots, I cannot believe that someone who has played Rift in the past looks at this info and what Pure thinks it will be (probably accurate) that a new RAID is coming will make them go "Woohoo! This is why I left Rift.. not enough raiding! I'm gonna resub!"
I don't think Trion gets it at all, unless they have some sort of secret poll that we all can't see where they know their playerbase wants more of this type of content before anything else. Heck, I don't think 3/4ths of the people in the game even finished Hammerknell yet so what's the deal with another raid and more dungeons?
"TO MICHAEL!"
It is all about presentation. When you break it down what other MMO throws new mounts and entire vanity ward drobes at you every 6 weeks or so and does not charge you for it?
The world events are pretty damn cool actually when you look at the vendor rewards it is really unique. The problem some people have is the daily quest to get the items have started to repeat and that gets annoying. They did have some unique ones like the race around sanctum as a sea crab got good reviews or matching up the musical notes one.
It is sort of what you hear from TOR. The story quest seemed really cool, but the side quest are more repetitive. I think it is more a genre thing. Daily quest can be done in no time flat so I am not complaining.
That also sums up pretty much every MMO out there. I can't understand why people use kill X arguement or gather X things to say that an MMO is bad. That's the basis of just about every GAME that has fighting as a main feature.
They're currently patching in the update to move to stage 2 of the current world event, I'm interested to see what the next phase entails. I'm sure it'll be more closing rifts or killing more mobs, but then, that's how games work.
As far as whether or not Trion uses the same content to make new content, that's kind of a duh statement to make. Developers don't spend weeks or months building art assets to only use once; that would stupid and inefficient on thier part. Squre screwed up with FFIV because they didn't create ENOUGH assets to make the landscape varied. Developers don't create entirely new and unique assets for every bit of the game, they reuse the peices they build and build enough peices that they don't repeate endlessly in anyone one area to be noticed. It would be silly of trion to create entirely different lava clusters for every area that had a lava cluster; they make a half dozen or so and use the one that fits for the area they're building, and don't disperse them next to each other so that it's noticeable.
As an aside, I don't understand why my posts were deleted. Is the OP not about a new raid being developed? I can post in this thread that all trion cares about is raiding, that they're only catering to raids, that the game is raid or die, that they only rehash the same content, that it's all kill X mobs or gather X items, but If I respond to a post about raiding in Rift and indicate taht it's not neccesary and that you can get the same gear without doing a single raid that post will get deleted?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design