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Criticism : Big Bosses are Static
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,400
in Guild Wars 2
I notice something about GW2, is that the big boss fights the boss is always static. This seem to be immersion breaking. Maybe this is due to poor design, but it's a major concern about the game. I hope this issue can be address before release, and that the boss fights we seen so far are just place holders.
what's your opinion on this?
what's your opinion on this?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
My opinion...
Let the game release first.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
Also note glitches and lag of the bosses that size could be highly possible.
A lot to [think] about.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Agree...
This is too specific of an issue to intelligently discuss at this point. All we know is what we've seen from a few videos. It's hard to know if a fight "feels" static without actually participating in it.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Which they don't least from [my experience], how ever I think it'd be awesome if they moved around the map, yet it'd be extremely Chaotic, though we don't know if all are static because in the trailer the Giant did show movements.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Yeah but the static bosses are going to be so innovative. Static mobs will never be the same again, and all without a subscription.
Heheh yeah, kind of like Skyrim's dragons
? That would be crazy.
EQ kind of had things like this where uber mobs would just roam across a zone, griefing all the lowbies (grief NPCs). It was...amusing, but I wouldn't like to repeat it
.
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the boss being isolated to one area when you fight it, if that's what the OP's concern is. This is a pretty standard thing in almost every video game that has bosses. It's very rare that a boss "wanders" around.
But maybe he's talking about the fact that many bosses appear to literally never move (like the big dragons). I would be concerned if this was the same for every boss...but once again, most video games with a "huge" boss, usually has the boss stay still. I do hope that there are some smaller bosses that actually move though.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I second your concern, however most bosses I've seen in WoW aren't that dynamic either. I am comparing them to raid bosses for 25 or 40 players. You have to keep in mind, that huge boss encounters need to be designed in a way they make sense for the game mechanics. In WoW they don't move that much, because a tank absorbs most of the damage and - well - tanks the boss. in GW2 you cannot tank, because there is no aggro mechanic in the traditional sense. Hence bosses in the open world need to be static or let's say mostly pinned to one point in order to keep combat interesting.
If the boss would move around and attack one player after another, the whole event group would die in an instant. In order to replace the dynamic of a boss moving around, ANet needs to make sure there are other boss mechanics, which keep the encounter dynamic. Like flying high in the air, raining down fire and landing on the same spot again, which can be seen in both dragon leutenant boss encounters, adds, tentacles which pick you up and hurl you toward the boss and others.
They also have said, that the engine limits movement of huge mobs. So you won't see them fly around in the open world. I wouldn't say it's poor design to go that route, but since combat is chaotic in GW2 you need to make sure every or most encounter(s) in the open world can be experienced by anyone.
I guess, a little movement wouldn't hurt, but you can't make them roam the area...unlike boss encounters in the dungeons. Those will be much more dynamic and difficult.
Ahh yes very true. Well only time will tell really OB should as well.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
It's not that the big bosses cannot move around the zone. It's more like during the battle, they have to limit the movement of big bosses. It's not that the don't want them to move, it's more along the lines of technical constraints. Attempting to render the movements of 100+ people, all the spells everyone's using, the boss attacks, and the boss movements (who happens to take up your entire screen) would be a complete nightmare. They've said that the smaller bosses will be more mobile in fights, but it's just not feasible for larger bosses, such as the dragons, to move a lot.
Well it at least made me think about the boss fights I've seen in videos and how they would play. And then how boss fights are usually implemented in video games compared to what I've seen in GW2.
But yeah, there isn't really a basis to his argument...I agree
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
The question is, will MMOExposed actually respond in his own thread?
Anyway, yeah the big bosses look stationary. I think it's more pronounced due to how dynamic the rest of the world is. However, if you compared to WoW as an example, the bosses in other games have a very similar stationary feel. I saw videos of their latest big baddie fight, death dragon or whatever his name is, and all you are fighting are some claws or something. So it's not really unique to GW2.
You know, one thing I would like to add is that not every single system in GW2 has to be amazingly innovative and groundbreakingly fun for it to be a good and innovative game. Even if boss fights are static (whatever that means), this does not immediately take away GW2's innovative card or make it non-immersive.
I can guarantee you right now, that there will be parts of GW2 that are not innovative at all. This may be one of them...I don't really know. But the point is that it may not even matter. So long as the overall game is fun and fresh...then the fact that an individual feature is not fresh doesn't matter.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
the open beta isn't out yet. Besides every interview with devs says that these are just demo placeholders and that the real game will have multiple dynamic events in a zone. Even if they have just two repeating ones it will be better then what every other game has done so far because honestly who's going to be standing there in the beginning to see all of the events in a area for hours on end? I won't. Maybe when i reach max level with my engineer and my ranger i might, and that will be a month or so down the road after lauch and i will be exploring the dungeons for fun by then and running around exploring all of the DE's around the world by then and taming new pets :P
the other thing is, no they don't they are in motion, the are doing things constantly. Every demo video i've seen shows them not aggroing like a scripted fight in WoW for example to a single target until that target is dead, the bosses are throwing things in areas, using AOE attacks like breath weapons, and creating defenses for themselves defenses that players have to take down before they can finish then off. And then there's the whole "trinity what trinity" factor where players can be anything and still take a boss down. cannons, machinery, etc can be used to kill a boss instead of standing down there killing his toenail until he dies.
It's funny how some people need glasses.
Why is it not feasible, RIFT manages it as well as countless others...
Dragons fly all over the island before landing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_89CA6W3Qd4 - use me in 1080p
And this is open world boss so potentially every player in game to attack it at same time...
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Cool looking boss, although it seems about as much movement as I saw in the GW2 Shatterer videos.
Its a decent tank keeping it in place for once, no other tank aggro whores! lol
Other similar large bosses can change form, go underground, teleport, split, with however many players in zone at once. So it should be easily technically possible for boss movements in games coming out now.
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There are no tanks in GW2. People need to think for a moment what that means for boss fight design and movement.
Static? STATIC?
Take a look at the Deathwing fight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDl4a7948Qc
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I saw the thread title and immidiately thought "MMOExposed" in my mind.
At least you were not disappointed.
Back on topic: it is still way too early to say that bosses are static. From what little we have seen of them so far, they don't appear to be any more static than any other MMO. But we have seen, one, maybe two different bosses so far? Remember this game is in closed beta, what we saw we saw while the game was in ALPHA state. And they were not all that static.
He's very unlikely to respond to anything you write here. It's his MO, start a thread, ask for thoughts and mmove on to another forum, read something there, start a thread, etc. etc.
I dunno that, the vid of that Sea dragon showed him doing some rather nasty stuff that didn't seem so easy to predict, and he wasn't just sitting still and letting the players kill him.
Those early shatterer vids did look pretty static but they are 2 years old now so I don´t think they are good examples of the game when it releases.
But if the big bosses would be static it would be boring, I just don´t think that is the case based on the later vids we seen.
hmm well so far i've seen like 6 gw2-bosses in videos.. all were more or less static and stayed mainly on the same place:
- 2 big dragons
- a giant ice worm
- some kind of demonic face
- that skeleton arm with the object flying around
- a bigger giant-boss half stuck in stone
of course we havent seen all bosses yet.. gw2 is still not out.. but static-bosses might be a downside of the combat-system with no holy trinity (=you dont need a real tank when you have bosses which dont/cant move around lot) or the staged massively events (f.e. seen at the gc2011-dragon.. it would be quite hard to shot that big laser on a much-moving-around dragon).. but well lets see..