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DENIAL is not just a river in Egypt
Billius8
Member Posts: 574
People need to stop it with all the denial about light server populations in EQ2. If folks are saying the game seems less populated and that it has become more difficult to find a group, then that ought to clue you in to the possibility that the game has had a drop off in players. Excuses like "it's summer" or "folks are taking a break" are just lame and dishonest, especially in the context of saying "that other game" is doing so well only because of "bots". C'mon!
Any problem cannot be fixed unless it is first acknowledged. Step 1: Acknowledge EQ2 server populations are not what they should be. Step 2: Identify possible reasons why this is so. Step 3: Make changes. Step 4: Assess the impact of those changes. Step 5: Return to Step 1 and repeat cycle as often as needed.
Now I have heard the dev's are making changes to this game and I will guess they are making these changes to maintain or stop the loss of subscribership. Had their game been the hit they wanted it to be, they likely would not be revamping basic systems such as combat, soloing, and crafting. They would be adding content instead. Supposedly, they are now doing both, so hopefully this game will bounce back (for those who play it).
Comments
Actually they have been adding content all along but what they screwed up was by creating the Adventure Packs. You dont charge people $15 a month and then nail them for another $5 for each pack or another $2 for features for their guild. Lame. Typical of Sony though. If they remove these it might make the game more accessible. Nothing is worse than playing with a group of people and have some of them NOT owning the Adventure Packs. Then the adventure with them ends.
I agree that there is a decline in the number of people. Is it Horizons yet? Heck no there are people? Sure are...there are plenty of people who play it. Problem? Too many servers. And the chat system sucks so finding people around the server is going to make life difficult. The chat channel is useless....nobody uses them.
I love the game...(I hate WoW's graphics, it IS a great game but the graphics dont appeal or I would play that also). I think they have some small fixes to do and entice more EQLive members over and provide content that competes instead of living in a vacuum. Atleast it is not laggy!
The game suffered a dramatic hit to the population about a month after release. I've never denied that. However, I'll stand my my statement that the game IS getting bigger. I don't know why other people have hard time finding groups or finding people in general, all I'm saying is that I don't. I'm not lying about that. If I want a group, I can find one 99.9% of the time. I think part of the problem is that a lot of people just put up the LFG tag and when they don't get a group in 5 minutes they think the population is dwindling. Guess what! People actually have to START groups to get them to work! If everyone just sits around waiting for an invite from someone no one's going to get anywhere.
Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT
That river is called The Nile! n00b!
;p
As the world gets bigger the populations will seem smaller!
No new players = Dead noob zones and probally dead cities seeing as you never really have to go to one for ages!
The populations are getting smaller from people getting bored or just not liking the game
I can see th game being dead within 2 years if they don't sort it out!
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Don't click here...no2
Both SOE and the fanbois have been in denial since this game was released; I know because I used to be one of them.
You can tell how popular a game is by its price, a popular game does not necessairly mean YOU will like it more then another but EQ2 hasn't been out for a year yet and the retail box has gone from $70 Canadian dollars to a little over $20. WoW has been out for the same amount of time (I believe they launched the same day) and its price is indeed lower, but only by about 20 bucks. I would suggest its is very accurate to say that EQ2 is bleeding from about 7 sides.
And if I might add: SOE deserves every last bit of it for the way they've alienated their once loyal player base.... EQ2 broke this gamers heart /sniff.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that EQ2 lost the consumer battle for players so don't be brainwashed by SOE propaganda that its hot outside....it was almost 100 here today and I still logged on to EVE
I hope you guys get your smaller server list at the very least, but imagine the headlines on blogs and gamer sites all over the place if WoW has like 40+ servers and Sony needs to downsize theirs.
Talk to pretty much anyone in a guild and you're not going to hear cries about not finding a group. The fact is people are way too lazy to even try and start their own group so they get pissy and say there is no one there. There are several MMO's up and running with populations less that Eq2's. I hardly ever have a hard time finding a group. If you do, I don't know what to tell you.
Lololol. These posts crack me up. How many times have we heard this about every game known to man. How many years now have the players been saying UO won't make it another year? Give it a rest the game isn't going anywhere.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I dont think the hardcore crowd understands that just because someone has a life that they are being lazy in a game or think doing 132 combines for a potion is fun
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ive played eq2 for several months and recently returned for one month unfortunately they havent fix ed anything and are waiting for this mystical live update 13 ( a no less) to totally change the way stats are valued they did this with crafting to and no doubt will again I wish SoE would stop worrying about what blizzard does and get on with fixing their game.
the combat revamp (which is NOT part of update 13a btw) IS fixing the game! it has nothing to do with WoW. as it is right now several classes in EQ2 (ie rangers, paladins, and shamans as well as minor problems with almost every other class) are almost useless because of problems with their skills. these arent just bugs, several are actual SKILL problems. the point of the combat revamp is to FIX these problems to BALANCE the game more.
i'm sick of hearing this "SOE is copying WoW" bullshit. everything SOE does now it seems is "copying WoW", or at least these forums would sure as hell make you think so. WoW (and many other games) had a mail system and EQ2 got one, so EQ2 MUST be copying WoW right? WoW (and many other games) had offline selling and EQ2 got it so EQ2 MUST be copying WoW right? it's complete and utter nonsense. my favorite example though has to be that SOE is adding solo content, so they just HAVE to be copying WoW. gee, it can't have anything to do with the fact that solo content was never spectacular in the game to begin with and for months people bitched and complained on the official forums to add more solo content. they HAD to be stealing the idea for WoW.
Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT
I guess I understand the point to the post but who cares ? Really I mean sure some players will deny there is a population slow down/downfall but whatever, just because you care and play a game doesn't mean your "always" aware of everything going on. SOE said themselves that sales and populations were a little lower then they would have hoped for but they feel they have a really good base to grow on (read this from the SOE LV fan fest white pages).
And ok sure, even with the populations being a little low, whats the big deal, some people really like low population servers for the more family oriented feel and there's a few of to pick from for EQ2, if you want a high population server there' 4 or 5 really nice one's and if you want a high population RP server, hey there's even one of those.
Honestly this sort of thing just fuels poor debate, EQ2 is going to be around for a long while, with a healthy population no matter what. All we can hope for is the improvements comming will be fun, of decent quality and help with the depth and longevity of the game.
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Yeah right a game with 300k subs will shutdown and we have games running with 20k subs still well alive.
You been hitting that pipe way too hard
You know, I do think server populations are lower then they should be, I do think they need to make some major changes, and I do think they plan to. But, from running actual numbers now and then - instead of the wishful thinking some of you like to engage in - I do not see any drop in server populations in months - more likely a small increase. Are people spread all over now instead of concentrated in a few zones? Of course.
There certainly was a drop early on, which is typical because everyone plays a game non-stop when it first comes out, and there was a drop when offline selling was introduced. That's about it.
As far as WOW goes, who give a rat's derriere. They can sell the whole popularion of Venus for all I care and that doesn't affect anything I care about ... except it keeps some people I'd rather not have in my games out of my games. I think of it as the mmorpg daycare center.
When I quit the game in early June my server seemed to be getting pretty bare. I quit because the game just isn't fun. It seems to me like its a fantasy theme park, not a fantasy world. I never felt convinced in the slightest that I was in a fantasy world. I felt like I was in a fantasy themed Disney World. The "sets" were bad and corny, the "costumes" are poorly done and ugly, and the way its setup is so linear to the max levels that I just wanted to stop moving all together because of boredom.
The game's combat is boring, the things you fight at the start of the game are no different than anything else you fight ever again in the game. You might as well take the enemy graphics and replace them with a blue square, because every enemy is the same.
I don't like the game, but I don't hate it like I hate Star Wars Galaxies. Everquest II just has some bad developement problems. Terrible character/clothing art and poorly designed combat. And those adventure packs are frustrating. You have to pay extra money to play the parts of the game that get the most developement time spent on them. The game is just very corporate.
Well I do not know about your small server but on Everfrost things are just fine. I would go so far as to say that if the population was much bigger there would be problems. As it is now the high end overland zones are crowded and the noob zones are filling up with ppl two (typically 2 Ant and TS every night of the week). The key to grouping in this game is that the social dynamics mimic real life. If you are not known amongst the player base (IE solo a lot) or worse are know as an idiot and/or jerk then you will not be as able to find a group. Group a few times with guildies or pick-up groups and this will raise your popularity and you will find groups quickly, just do not be an idiot and/or jerk. As it is now I get pinged with people wanting to group with me without my LGF tag up. This is after soloing for about 10-15 levels in a row so I know what it is like to be unknown and scratching your way onto the A list.
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Now this idiocy of people saying that one game mimics another is all so foolish. You have several similar platforms with similar genera of game play of course there will be things that are similar. While EQ2 has loaded up on solo and causal content there is still a great amount of group content and the loot/exp is by far better in a group. A good contrast of solo Vs group overland zones is Lavastorm Vs. Everfrost. Do not believe me try to solo to Sol Eye then try to solo to Permafrost.
Onto class balancing, yes there are broken classes this to any EQ vet is not a shock. However the changes that they have in the works are really interesting and will further the distinction between classes within the same archetype. Additionally with the insane amount of content that they have added and prepping for the addition of PvP (yes I know it is not really direct PvP but it is in the near future) it is only logical that the class/skill structure would undergo a revamp also DoF looks to redefine group dynamics so once again it is just a logical progression. I for one am shocked that there are so many classes that can solo, group and raid as well as they do without being vanilla in play style.
Getting back to the jerk and/or idiot conundrum I think that this is a bigger problem for the complainers then the population of the servers.
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I think right now, we arent really sure whats happening with the servers populations at this point. Any given reason that everyone have suggested might be the cause. Personally, Im tired of SOE force grouping the whole damn game. Its not that I dont care to group, but there are some people out there who just dont have any luck in getting into a group or they dont really have time to get into one. Some people might want to pop on to EQ2 for maybe two hours, maybe hunt, craft, or do a quest. They dont want to wait on the dock for half that time for a group. People want to be active when in comes to play their game. If half of the content was soloable and other half was groupable, then people wont need to wait for a group and do solo quests. One of the reason WoW is in a big success have to do that its solo friendly.
I do know one thing, that SOE needs to get this expansion right. They cant really afford to rip people off with this expansion, like what they did with the last adventure pack. If they screw around with this one, people might not even return.
Have played: CoH, DDO EQ2, FFXI, L2, HZ, SoR, and WW2 online
You touched on the real problem with EQ2; the game simply wasn't ready for release. It really boggles my mind how much leverage their marketing department seems to have. How much sense does it make to shove an unfinished game out the door to beat another competitor (WoW) to market, only to LOSE a large number of players because the game isn't ready? Same sad story with SWG.
SoE will never have another game that even matches EQ's past success simply because they aren't willing to do what it takes, and that is - quality and attention to detail. But you know what? They probably really don't care anyhow. As long as they exceed some minimal number of subscribers to keep the game afloat, they keep using their 'all access pass'. It's their way of saying "yeah, we know none of our products are good enough to stand on their own 2 feet, but hey - we'll give you a "deal" by letting you subscribe to all of them! (although you still get ripped off because you need to buy the box 1st).
Well I for one have never played an MMORPG that was ever truely finished at launch (These are online games, they will adapt and change to the demands of the players and/or developers over time, so in essence, non of them are going to ever be truely finished, if you wish to look at it that way). The first week of WoW was filled with many server disconnects and crashes...never happened on EQ2 for me. I play both games, and I have to say that your comment about EQ2 not paying attention to detail is a bit off the mark. Graphically and lore wise EQ2 has a tremendous amount of detail, as does WoW, but EQ2 fills their environments with more native animals and better sounds. Personally I am glad SOE has station access also. I own all of the games offered on the station access and it is nice to be able to go and play any of those games and not pay $15 a month for each of them. So many people knock SOE as greedy, yet here they offer a low cost way to play their games and people use it as a reason to bash them.
Some people need to realize that SOE is a corporation (like Blizzard). Their goal is to make money, not intintionally piss people off or make enemies. I find it funny how many people on this site seem to believe that SOE is really out there to ruin their gaming experiences. If you don't like a product, don't buy it. That sends a stronger message than whining on a forum.
Is it the scent, or do I smell dissent among the ranks of EQII during its desent.
R
thanks for dis'ing my missing dis its much appreciated.
Well I for one have never played an MMORPG that was ever truely finished at launch (These are online games, they will adapt and change to the demands of the players and/or developers over time, so in essence, non of them are going to ever be truely finished, if you wish to look at it that way). The first week of WoW was filled with many server disconnects and crashes...never happened on EQ2 for me. I play both games, and I have to say that your comment about EQ2 not paying attention to detail is a bit off the mark. Graphically and lore wise EQ2 has a tremendous amount of detail, as does WoW, but EQ2 fills their environments with more native animals and better sounds. Personally I am glad SOE has station access also. I own all of the games offered on the station access and it is nice to be able to go and play any of those games and not pay $15 a month for each of them. So many people knock SOE as greedy, yet here they offer a low cost way to play their games and people use it as a reason to bash them.
Some people need to realize that SOE is a corporation (like Blizzard). Their goal is to make money, not intintionally piss people off or make enemies. I find it funny how many people on this site seem to believe that SOE is really out there to ruin their gaming experiences. If you don't like a product, don't buy it. That sends a stronger message than whining on a forum.
The things you are mentioning about disconnects in WoW are not related at all to what I was talking about. Those are technical issues dealing with Blizzard's infrastructure. It's not related to the actual design or content of the game, which was what I was talking about.
Look at all the massive changes that have gone into both SWG and EQ2 since release. Clearly, the games were not ready to be released. I don't think this really falls under the category of "well - NO MMO is really ever 'finished'." Class balance and gameplay issues as sweeping as those being done are simply the signs of a product rushed to release.
The sad thing is many people who got an initial taste of these games won't be coming back no matter what kind of changes are made. I work with 2 guys who tried out SWG when it was released and cancelled in disgust after 2 months. They won't ever bother with the game again because there are too many other good alternatives out right now. This is something SoE doesn't seem to understand. For many potential customers, they get one shot at the game. They pick it up, try it and if it sucks or needs massive work still, these people are going to cancel and move on to something else, and never look back.
I don't agree that the game wasn't ready for release. I played it from day one, and it seemed fine to me - no more bugs then any other newly released game I've played, probably less. I didn't have any significant problem with it from day one. Since release they've made a lot of changes which, in my mind, are desiged to respond to how they see current "market conditions" (i.e. WOW, GW). Some are good, some aren't so good, in my view.
In this case changing things doesn't indicate that it wasn't ready ... it indicates a change of course. I think the problem SOE currently has is that they are trying to ride this razor's edge between satisfying the very casual people and the more hardcore people. I don't see how that can be done, but, we'll see.
I do think there's a lot of validity to your point that you only get one shot at a lot of the customers. But, again, we'll see. EQ certainly increased its base for a good 3-4 years. EQ2 has a decent base - they don't need to add that much to be adequately successful.
BTW Ryld, the word is "dissent". If you're going to try to make a cute point, it's important to use the correct words.
lol, actually the servers arent light at all.
No denial there. I still play it. I have characters of all levels (from 8 to 43).
No problems getting groups here or finding people (there are a lot of them)
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
--Nyture, Arc Convoker of fironia vie server (EQ) --Retired--
-- Nytur 39 Conjuror of Lucan D'lere (Quit due to low populations)
-- Currently playing WoW while waiting for vanguard
Explorer 66%
Socializer 60%
Killer 53%
Achiever 20%
PLEASE SOE MAKE A CLASSIC EQ SERVER. Shadow of luclin was a prick in EQs side. PoP Was a gun to the face.
Concerning the level of development that EQ2 was released with:
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I have stated from the start that EQ2 was released as a shell of what it will be when all is said and done. This was not an accident nor was it to get the jump on WoW I am of the opinion that it was to get the jump on the next big thing. The adaptability of the platform speaks for itself as does the structure of the game, the use of system resources and all the little nuances they are playing with. When you think about it, it kind of adds up I mean can you think of a better test environment and marketing playground then mass release to the general public knowing full well that your target is the next generation gamer? I have no doubts that there is some method to the madness and it is not like SoE is above inhumane treatment of their customers for their own betterment. What is the worse that will happen they will retain their title of the most blood thirsty gaming company around?(/sigh) It is not like they are the first company to do it. It happens all the time from the type of pen in your hand to the car you drive down to the food you eat a great number of them are simply reinventions of products/concepts launched long ago that were retooled from the forges of consumer criticism.
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When was the last press release about EQ 2 subscription numbers? Last one I remember was like 6+ months ago at 300000. Knowing SOE loves to market, a lack of press releases about sub numbers for so many months is the first sign that it is struggling, especially with Blizzard Marketing throwing sub numbers around like it's in style.