It can't compete with even the trash of the f2p market. Its a sloppy rushed copy of wow with no features. People aren't going to wait 10 years for things that should be standard practice even in the worst korean made pay per item game.
Let me put this way its 2012 and bioware is a car company they released their newest model it has no roof and a manual starter with promises recalls will add those features.
For me, it was something very simple. I arrived on Hutta and saw the incredibly detailed if lifeless scenery. That wasn't a problem, I expected that from EQ2. I didn't even mind the fact that it wasn't really scenery at all, just a series of pathways; I knew this was going to be a very limited themepark game anyway. No, what got me was that when I returned to the cantina to hand in my mission, I couldn't sit down on a chair. Now, I don't know how difficult that would be to programme or animate but I do recognise that somewhere along the line, someone in Bioware or EA said: 'Siting? Too expensive to develop. Fuck them if they want to sit down, they can squat on the floor. I don't remember Han and Chewie sitting down, do you?'. And it was then I realised this game was bad.
What the first indication to you - either in a statement or press release issued before the game or in your own personal experience during beta or post-launch - that this game was deeply flawed?
SWTOR is the most successful MMO after WoW, you guys should learn to live with that. Is a new game and it wil be better and bigger in the incoming months. If you dont like it is ok, but swtor is far far far away to be a ¨fail¨.
SWTOR hasn't proven to be "successful" at all at this stage. Yes initial sales were high but that has nothing to do with success.
Success is when they actually manage to make a profit large enough to satisfy the investors.
Until they start to satisfy the players, success is going to be a long time coming.
Well lets put it this way.... I knew something was flawed whne people ha dunreal expectiations when the Devs said form day 1 almost wha tkinda game ti was gonna be and form the gameplay videos you could tell what the game was gonna be like. So no the game sint really flawed, but the players are.
What the first indication to you - either in a statement or press release issued before the game or in your own personal experience during beta or post-launch - that this game was deeply flawed?
Years ago, about 6 months after it was officially announced, the game's Lead Developer or president or some important fella made a speech and said that BioWare was using WoW as their model for design success.
That's when i lowered my expectations to probably the lowest of any MMO i've actually purchased.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
They claim to have spent 100s of millions on a game that isn't even good enough to be F2P. I wonder where all the money actually went? It wasn't VA or cinimatics, they don't cost that much.
Well lets put it this way.... I knew something was flawed whne people ha dunreal expectiations when the Devs said form day 1 almost wha tkinda game ti was gonna be and form the gameplay videos you could tell what the game was gonna be like. So no the game sint really flawed, but the players are.
Two things jumped out at me 6-12 months before release. The first was that the screenhots seemed to show a lot of linear gameplay areas. Lots of unclimable "artificial walls". The second was the constant pushing of "story" by Bioware. It wasn't so much that they were pushing their story idea, but that I wasn't hearing anything new or exciting about the actual gameplay.
These two things pretty much told me all I needed to know, and when I finally played it I turned out to be right. By the time it released I had a good understanding of what the game was and wanted, and I was pretty accurate. One thing I didn't expected was the lifelessness and lack of atmosphere in the game.
Name one game, other than maybe Eve, that does not have unclimbable "artificial walls". Somehow I think that any one you come up with, someone else will shoot down for a laundry list of walls. If anything, these walls are making the game MORE realistic than anything else about the game. I live in have lived in New York, North Carolina (twice), Texas, Okinawa (Japan), and now Hawaii and I have to say, there is a LOT of unclimbable walls out there unless you have some very specific gear and training, which most do not.
As for the story and no new and exciting game play . . . I find it amazing that there is so much call for this type of thing, but when it actually happens, people cry about how "out of step" it is with modern games.
There are things that need to be fixed with this game, I fully admit that, but the walls and story aspects are not among the "fixing" list for me. Instead the need to beef up the character creator by at least a factor of four, make ships truly customizable, and make for a more indepth brasnching story system so that lightside and darkside players get more options than just completing missions in slightly different ways OR for different reasons. Those are my three major desires for the game. On a lesser scale I would like to see gear dyes so I can choose the color of my items. Wouldn't even bother me if they made it really expensive, in game, to do it.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
As for the story and no new and exciting game play . . . I find it amazing that there is so much call for this type of thing, but when it actually happens, people cry about how "out of step" it is with modern games.
Actually happens? Where? When? What game came out with this and people "cried" about it?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
SWTOR is the most successful MMO after WoW, you guys should learn to live with that. Is a new game and it wil be better and bigger in the incoming months. If you dont like it is ok, but swtor is far far far away to be a ¨fail¨.
OH, you're so cute! I just wanna pinch your little cheeks!
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
They claim to have spent 100s of millions on a game that isn't even good enough to be F2P. I wonder where all the money actually went? It wasn't VA or cinimatics, they don't cost that much.
Well James Ohlen ALONE gets a paycheck of over 1 million a year for starters
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
For me, it was something very simple. I arrived on Hutta and saw the incredibly detailed if lifeless scenery. That wasn't a problem, I expected that from EQ2. I didn't even mind the fact that it wasn't really scenery at all, just a series of pathways; I knew this was going to be a very limited themepark game anyway. No, what got me was that when I returned to the cantina to hand in my mission, I couldn't sit down on a chair. Now, I don't know how difficult that would be to programme or animate but I do recognise that somewhere along the line, someone in Bioware or EA said: 'Siting? Too expensive to develop. Fuck them if they want to sit down, they can squat on the floor. I don't remember Han and Chewie sitting down, do you?'. And it was then I realised this game was bad.
What the first indication to you - either in a statement or press release issued before the game or in your own personal experience during beta or post-launch - that this game was deeply flawed?
The space combat. I did my research, I bought the game anyway..but once I actually PLAYED IT...
holy....but..how the..what the FUCK..
150 million dollars..lord have mercy jesus(and this from someone who is not religious).
After that abomination, I just went into sista-girl mode(and I'm a man, mind you), rolled my head, wagged my finger, said "o no u didn't" and uninstalled that motherfucker.
Originally posted by wrekognize The day I read the lead developer say "the missing element in MMORPGs is the story."
I was going to say they day they told us full VO would change MMOs forever .. but that works too.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
The game from the very beginning just screamed designed by suits and marketing drones with visions of hundreds of millions of dollars a year WoW type profits.
Bioware has been going downhill rapidly over the years from their high point of Baldur's Gate. The dreadfully mediocre KOTOR games and then the 'adventure game trying to be passed off as an RPG' Mass Effect games. It was no surprise that Bioware's MMORPG ended up being a 'single player game being passed off as an MMORPG'.
Well I had kindof forgotten about the game tbh (not a sw fan) and then I saw the release date announcement talk at eurogamer and it just didn't feel right. It felt too early and I just got the feeling from the way they talked in the vid that they werent quite sold on their own game. Perhaps its just me, but sometimes I think I detect a hint of a lack of conviction.. I remember the same with AoC demos..
On the other hand I fell hook. line and sinker for the WAR podcasts... but I still reckon the marketing guys really didn't know their game was flawed.
For me it was when it portrayed your Jedi Knight character as the hero and saviour of the galaxy which in the story lines actually consistently saved this and that planet from certain doom. Seeing as there are houndreds of Jedi Knights and houndreds of other characters on the same very planet that you just "saved" just did not make any sense.
This game should have been a single player game, period.
Well, to be upfront and honest, I approached SWTOR very cautiously and expecting to not like it....I was playing with some friends, that I played Vanguard and SWG with.
I actually thought the story stuff was ok for a bit, but it soon became apparant that it didn't matter too much, since me and the wife played the same class, me the dark side, and her the light side and it was pretty much the same....BUT, I am not a big story person, and this would not deter me from enjoying a MMO...I look for depth of exploring, crafting, harvesting, and other things to do.
Before I started to play, I often brought Rift up, and how I thought it was a small world, not a lot of depth, and it was super railed...People in the beta assured me that the game opened up once you got higher, and their was good exploration, and depth.
So when I got to say around 40, it became apparant that their wasn't many more planets to see, and it wasn't going to happen. I can't say they lied, but they must have a very different view of exploration that has quality to it, and pretty much the mostly rat maze planets that you see in SWTOR.
What killed me was being 50, and we took our time to play most of the quests on every planet, to where we outleveled everything, and people kept getting on us for still being on a planet...So it was being 50, and Ilum still being very buggy for just basic quests, and seeing how everything evolved into basically dailies, like Rift...I find this type of play mind numbing, not to say its not prevelant in most mmos, but thats my opinion.
Not sure what to tell ya other than I enjoy the game. I remember playing wow when it came out, and it made me want to pull my hair out. The game had major issues and crashes. Still can't make everyone happy I guess.....
I think that "flawed" is the wrong word. I prefer "lacking" as in lacking features that should be considered basic for any AAA MMO launching at this point in time. I am sure that these absent features will be added in over time, however, they should have been included before launch.
I am speaking of Guild banks, UI customization, etc.
Well, and I didn't mention my end conclusion of SWTOR, it was that they watered down the single player story aspect, due to them not being able or not willing to do what it took to make the single player story matter more, and then the mmo aspect was watered down to cater for the storyline play/VO constraints/budget.
I think they weakend both, not to say someone couldn't do it right some day, and as is usual, maybe it is just early attempts are flawed at things, but it didn't 'work' right/good imo.
So I basically viewed it as I got my money worth out of it, as a single player rpg, not too interested in playing their end game mmo version...Just was hoping for it to last till TSW/GW2 or both.
When I hit the low-mid 30's on my Jedi Consular... and just lost all motivation.
Then made a Jedi Knight and played till like 27... then lost all motivation.
Then got my motivation back and got my Consular to 50... then lost all motivation to log onto her again after I finished my class story line.
Made a trooper and had a good time playing till about 17... then lost all motivation.
Hmmm...
Not being rude at all, but were you not the guy defending SWTOR against even constructive critics? Going to play every class for the story alone, yielding 1000's of hours of gameplay? Defending the choices they made that were obvious mistakes?
Not that you were every overly rude but you were close at times with people who pretty much voiced the exact same things you are saying now. It just took them a week instead of 2 months I guess.
LOL like I said not being rude to you, but it is amusing to see such a turn around about ToR in what? 6 weeks?.
Maybe want to play that next game for a month or two before shooting people down for stating flaws of your new shiny game. Just a thought
Comments
It can't compete with even the trash of the f2p market. Its a sloppy rushed copy of wow with no features. People aren't going to wait 10 years for things that should be standard practice even in the worst korean made pay per item game.
Let me put this way its 2012 and bioware is a car company they released their newest model it has no roof and a manual starter with promises recalls will add those features.
SWTOR hasn't proven to be "successful" at all at this stage. Yes initial sales were high but that has nothing to do with success.
Success is when they actually manage to make a profit large enough to satisfy the investors.
Until they start to satisfy the players, success is going to be a long time coming.
Well lets put it this way.... I knew something was flawed whne people ha dunreal expectiations when the Devs said form day 1 almost wha tkinda game ti was gonna be and form the gameplay videos you could tell what the game was gonna be like. So no the game sint really flawed, but the players are.
Years ago, about 6 months after it was officially announced, the game's Lead Developer or president or some important fella made a speech and said that BioWare was using WoW as their model for design success.
That's when i lowered my expectations to probably the lowest of any MMO i've actually purchased.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
When graphics modes are "bugs".
Pretty easy one for me.
They claim to have spent 100s of millions on a game that isn't even good enough to be F2P. I wonder where all the money actually went? It wasn't VA or cinimatics, they don't cost that much.
I ran this through babelfish.
Name one game, other than maybe Eve, that does not have unclimbable "artificial walls". Somehow I think that any one you come up with, someone else will shoot down for a laundry list of walls. If anything, these walls are making the game MORE realistic than anything else about the game. I live in have lived in New York, North Carolina (twice), Texas, Okinawa (Japan), and now Hawaii and I have to say, there is a LOT of unclimbable walls out there unless you have some very specific gear and training, which most do not.
As for the story and no new and exciting game play . . . I find it amazing that there is so much call for this type of thing, but when it actually happens, people cry about how "out of step" it is with modern games.
There are things that need to be fixed with this game, I fully admit that, but the walls and story aspects are not among the "fixing" list for me. Instead the need to beef up the character creator by at least a factor of four, make ships truly customizable, and make for a more indepth brasnching story system so that lightside and darkside players get more options than just completing missions in slightly different ways OR for different reasons. Those are my three major desires for the game. On a lesser scale I would like to see gear dyes so I can choose the color of my items. Wouldn't even bother me if they made it really expensive, in game, to do it.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Actually happens? Where? When? What game came out with this and people "cried" about it?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
OH, you're so cute! I just wanna pinch your little cheeks!
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
Well James Ohlen ALONE gets a paycheck of over 1 million a year for starters
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
The space combat. I did my research, I bought the game anyway..but once I actually PLAYED IT...
holy....but..how the..what the FUCK..
150 million dollars..lord have mercy jesus(and this from someone who is not religious).
After that abomination, I just went into sista-girl mode(and I'm a man, mind you), rolled my head, wagged my finger, said "o no u didn't" and uninstalled that motherfucker.
I'm playing perpetuum for now.
The day I read the lead developer say "the missing element in MMORPGs is the story."
HAHA I love it.. "seriously flawed"
Seems its still going.. never be as big as wow but will be around for a few years.
I was going to say they day they told us full VO would change MMOs forever .. but that works too.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
The game from the very beginning just screamed designed by suits and marketing drones with visions of hundreds of millions of dollars a year WoW type profits.
Bioware has been going downhill rapidly over the years from their high point of Baldur's Gate. The dreadfully mediocre KOTOR games and then the 'adventure game trying to be passed off as an RPG' Mass Effect games. It was no surprise that Bioware's MMORPG ended up being a 'single player game being passed off as an MMORPG'.
What was the first signal to you that this multi-multi-million dollar game was seriously flawed?
Well I had kindof forgotten about the game tbh (not a sw fan) and then I saw the release date announcement talk at eurogamer and it just didn't feel right. It felt too early and I just got the feeling from the way they talked in the vid that they werent quite sold on their own game. Perhaps its just me, but sometimes I think I detect a hint of a lack of conviction.. I remember the same with AoC demos..
On the other hand I fell hook. line and sinker for the WAR podcasts... but I still reckon the marketing guys really didn't know their game was flawed.
For me it was when it portrayed your Jedi Knight character as the hero and saviour of the galaxy which in the story lines actually consistently saved this and that planet from certain doom. Seeing as there are houndreds of Jedi Knights and houndreds of other characters on the same very planet that you just "saved" just did not make any sense.
This game should have been a single player game, period.
My gaming blog
When I hit the low-mid 30's on my Jedi Consular... and just lost all motivation.
Then made a Jedi Knight and played till like 27... then lost all motivation.
Then got my motivation back and got my Consular to 50... then lost all motivation to log onto her again after I finished my class story line.
Made a trooper and had a good time playing till about 17... then lost all motivation.
Well, to be upfront and honest, I approached SWTOR very cautiously and expecting to not like it....I was playing with some friends, that I played Vanguard and SWG with.
I actually thought the story stuff was ok for a bit, but it soon became apparant that it didn't matter too much, since me and the wife played the same class, me the dark side, and her the light side and it was pretty much the same....BUT, I am not a big story person, and this would not deter me from enjoying a MMO...I look for depth of exploring, crafting, harvesting, and other things to do.
Before I started to play, I often brought Rift up, and how I thought it was a small world, not a lot of depth, and it was super railed...People in the beta assured me that the game opened up once you got higher, and their was good exploration, and depth.
So when I got to say around 40, it became apparant that their wasn't many more planets to see, and it wasn't going to happen. I can't say they lied, but they must have a very different view of exploration that has quality to it, and pretty much the mostly rat maze planets that you see in SWTOR.
What killed me was being 50, and we took our time to play most of the quests on every planet, to where we outleveled everything, and people kept getting on us for still being on a planet...So it was being 50, and Ilum still being very buggy for just basic quests, and seeing how everything evolved into basically dailies, like Rift...I find this type of play mind numbing, not to say its not prevelant in most mmos, but thats my opinion.
Not sure what to tell ya other than I enjoy the game. I remember playing wow when it came out, and it made me want to pull my hair out. The game had major issues and crashes. Still can't make everyone happy I guess.....
I think that "flawed" is the wrong word. I prefer "lacking" as in lacking features that should be considered basic for any AAA MMO launching at this point in time. I am sure that these absent features will be added in over time, however, they should have been included before launch.
I am speaking of Guild banks, UI customization, etc.
Well, and I didn't mention my end conclusion of SWTOR, it was that they watered down the single player story aspect, due to them not being able or not willing to do what it took to make the single player story matter more, and then the mmo aspect was watered down to cater for the storyline play/VO constraints/budget.
I think they weakend both, not to say someone couldn't do it right some day, and as is usual, maybe it is just early attempts are flawed at things, but it didn't 'work' right/good imo.
So I basically viewed it as I got my money worth out of it, as a single player rpg, not too interested in playing their end game mmo version...Just was hoping for it to last till TSW/GW2 or both.
Hmmm...
Not being rude at all, but were you not the guy defending SWTOR against even constructive critics? Going to play every class for the story alone, yielding 1000's of hours of gameplay? Defending the choices they made that were obvious mistakes?
Not that you were every overly rude but you were close at times with people who pretty much voiced the exact same things you are saying now. It just took them a week instead of 2 months I guess.
LOL like I said not being rude to you, but it is amusing to see such a turn around about ToR in what? 6 weeks?.
Maybe want to play that next game for a month or two before shooting people down for stating flaws of your new shiny game. Just a thought