Im currently playing Swtor and enjoying it, but even on swtor's own forum there is a smaller amount of people that want to actually discuss the game, or just not hate on it one way or another, and im sure most of the people that do destroy the forums are still subbed.
Maybe your just too sensitive about 'hate'.
One man's 'hate' is another man's justified criticism.
Not everyone that makes a negative comment is a 'hater', which is really mostly just used as a cheap label to dismiss folks that observe and criticise. A lot just want games to get better.
Thousands of people sign up for different gaming forums everyday, and thousands of posts are put up for all to see and comment...but will we gain from others feedback? I feel like as MMO's progress and new popular and innovative games come out there is no such thing as actually discussing them and engaging in an intelligent non rage conversation. Basically every recent [ or still living ] MMO I have been hyped about at one point or another [ Swtor,Dota2, D3, Aion] recieves more hate and rage threads/comments on any forum vs. positive or constructive discussions. Im currently playing Swtor and enjoying it, but even on swtor's own forum there is a smaller amount of people that want to actually discuss the game, or just not hate on it one way or another, and im sure most of the people that do destroy the forums are still subbed. Where have the benefits of forums gone? Is today's forum discussion just arguements about one or more people's opinions on a video game?
Discussions that have anything to do with intelect usually don´t start until a few months after launch nowadays, when people can put things in perspective.
For some reason people takes any comment personally regarding just released games and most people usually really hate or love games that are just out. So post in the forums for the games that have been out a while and you´ll be fine instead of saying why TOR is the best or worst game ever...
But it is funny, a few years ago things were not like this. I think it started with WAR, AoC and Darkfall. There have always been trolls and some rage but not like this.
You could always create a fanpage with an attached forum where you set the rules. That way you can ban anyone not there to discuss how awesome a game is.
This was so off from the point I was trying to make. I've posted my thoughts on many games in a forum before, and if it was a negative review I would atleast make it constructive and tell the readers why I dislike the game or parts of it.
People are free to have an opinion regardless of what facts or data they use to justify it. Many times the same list of reasons you give for liking a game I could give for disliking it.
I'll rephrase Starpower's quote for you. If you want a forum where opinions (positive or negative) must be backed by facts and/or data then start your own forums where you can make such rules.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Heh, interesting topic, beats a lot of other ones in subject matter and tone. I wish I could +1 it. I'm in actionMMORPG's 3rd category of Moderates, and I wish there were a lot more of those around, but that doesn't seem to be the case, at least on the forums of this site.
I have this theory about how the people that use internet and forums has changed over the years as well as the MMORPG population. In economics there's a model that describes the product lifecycle of a new product, where in the early stages it's the innovators and early adopters that embrace the new product or technology, followed by the early majority, then late majority and laggards. The thing here is, that each group has its own dominant characterics, the groups were generally different from eachother in mentality, personality and attitude. Maybe not on an individual level, as everyone ofc is a 'unique snowflake' but as a group they are.
You can see it in other areas as well, take for example music: before a new music pop trend goes mainstream and becomes hugely popular and accepted, the kind of people that embrace the new trend when it's still indie or underground, the early adopters, are a different kind than when the music gains track and becomes so popular that everyone, mainstream public as well as entrepeneurs and big music companies smelling profit and success, embrace it.
The same with the early days of internet, forums and MMORPG's: let's face it, it was kind of a nerdy business back then, and gaming still had a niche feeling to it, not as hugely mainstream as it had become. The people that embraced internet, forums and online gaming warmly and enthusiastically first were, just like the innovators and early adopters in the product lifecycle model, also different as a group, certainly not a slice of the mainstream population. Those early groups had a larger-than-average number of college students among them, as well as people generally savvy with computers and technology and people with more of an open mind towards accepting new ideas and entertainment trends. And for MMORPG online gaming, there was also a larger group of fans of pen&paper RPG's and classic RPG's among them.
Of course discussions ingame and on internet forums were different with such groups of people back then, internet generally had a wholly different atmosphere and vibe.
Now, internet and online gaming and MMORPG's have become wellknown and embraced by the mainstream population. Just like the product lifecycle model describes the general attitude of the early groups innovators and early adopters to be different from the groups that embrace a product/technology later on, the same applies to the general population and vibe of internet and forums and online MMO gaming compared with in the early years. In the early years of internet forums and MMO gaming, it was the college student, tech savvy, generally more openminded and/or (in the case of MMO's) PnP RPG and classic RPG loving groups that dominated the forum and ingame atmosphere: personally, I think the forum/MMO population in those early years were as a whole smarter, more openminded and eager to try out new things and also more tolerant (after all, a lot of nerds, students and hardcore RPG fans among the early adopters of internet/MMO gaming) than the internet/MMO population these days.
I notice it not only on these forums, but on other forums as well: I can't recall shaking my head as much as the past years, reading the comments and discussions being held. Not that it was all peachy and sunshine in those early years, but generally I think that these days there's a lot more intolerance, less emotional control and EQ, more intellectual laziness and outright stupidity and less smartness to be witnessed on internet forums as well as ingame in MMO's.
The same thing as happens with every field or genre or entertainment product when it's embraced not only by the innovators and early adopters anymore, but also the early and late majority groups. The general vibe and atmosphere of it will change. It becomes 'mainstreamed'.
This guy knows what's actually occuring. Read it and let the knowledge and reason wash over you
We're dealing with a predominantly mainstream culture in mmorpg's and on the internet these days so it stands to reason that you'll witness the typical closed-minded hysteria and narcissism that mainstream society generally exhibits.
You could always create a fanpage with an attached forum where you set the rules. That way you can ban anyone not there to discuss how awesome a game is.
This was so off from the point I was trying to make. I've posted my thoughts on many games in a forum before, and if it was a negative review I would atleast make it constructive and tell the readers why I dislike the game or parts of it.
No matter how elequent well written and correct the points you are trying to make are. If somebody doesn't want to agree with you they simply won't
Facts, logic and well documented examples takes a back seat at that point. It's how forums work.
The problem is, some people attempt to tout their opinion as fact, while others seem to think that, because of facts that may be, everyone should share their opinion.
For example; "Game X takes a long time to level compared to game Y." (fact) "Therefor game X is crap and if you like it you're ignoring facts" (opinion).
All the facts in the world are meaningless when trying to argue opinion. They're great for explaining how an opinion is formed, but it doesn't make one opinion "right" or another "wrong".
You could always create a fanpage with an attached forum where you set the rules. That way you can ban anyone not there to discuss how awesome a game is.
This was so off from the point I was trying to make. I've posted my thoughts on many games in a forum before, and if it was a negative review I would atleast make it constructive and tell the readers why I dislike the game or parts of it.
No matter how elequent well written and correct the points you are trying to make are. If somebody doesn't want to agree with you they simply won't
Facts, logic and well documented examples takes a back seat at that point. It's how forums work.
The problem is, some people attempt to tout their opinion as fact, while others seem to think that, because of facts that may be, everyone should share their opinion.
For example; "Game X takes a long time to level compared to game Y." (fact) "Therefor game X is crap and if you like it you're ignoring facts" (opinion).
All the facts in the world are meaningless when trying to argue opinion. They're great for explaining how an opinion is formed, but it doesn't make one opinion "right" or another "wrong".
This. Hard to argue a point with someone if they are convinced their opinion is a god given fact. Then they call you a liar because you don't agree with their opinion.
Another bothering trend is the polarisation of the community. What I mean is that you have to be a rabid hater of a game or a blind fanboi. But the moment you post a more middle-of-the-road view of a game, you get savaged by both camps. What happened to moderation?
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Anger creates drama, and some people just LOVE drama. Even well-toned constructive criticism gets drowned out by the hyperbolic tirades you read on forums. There's a thread right now in the official forums entitled "Player bounties will save this game."
I freaking laughed out loud at this statement. Does anyone honestly believe that one feature, let alone Player Bounties, will save a game, any game?
And yet people post this shit. Day in and day out. I suspect they have a high opinion of their own intelligence, or wit, and bask in the self-certainty that comes along with it.
There was another thread I read recently in which a poster lambasted a game's lack of innovation, and then proceeded (presumably straight-faced) to list off a number of 'innovative' ideas he had for the game. Ironically, nothing he listed was innovative and had been done in numerous games before.
The number of people interested in honest discussion about games, and capable of intelligent discussion, is an embarrassingly small number of people.
Need a step ladder to get on that horse?
What, you mean my High Horse? No. I never dismounted it. Why would I mingle with you plebs?
Thousands of people sign up for different gaming forums everyday, and thousands of posts are put up for all to see and comment...but will we gain from others feedback? I feel like as MMO's progress and new popular and innovative games come out there is no such thing as actually discussing them and engaging in an intelligent non rage conversation. Basically every recent [ or still living ] MMO I have been hyped about at one point or another [ Swtor,Dota2, D3, Aion] recieves more hate and rage threads/comments on any forum vs. positive or constructive discussions. Im currently playing Swtor and enjoying it, but even on swtor's own forum there is a smaller amount of people that want to actually discuss the game, or just not hate on it one way or another, and im sure most of the people that do destroy the forums are still subbed. Where have the benefits of forums gone? Is today's forum discussion just arguements about one or more people's opinions on a video game?
Discussions that have anything to do with intelect usually don´t start until a few months after launch nowadays, when people can put things in perspective.
For some reason people takes any comment personally regarding just released games and most people usually really hate or love games that are just out. So post in the forums for the games that have been out a while and you´ll be fine instead of saying why TOR is the best or worst game ever...
But it is funny, a few years ago things were not like this. I think it started with WAR, AoC and Darkfall. There have always been trolls and some rage but not like this.
I like what you said, and I agree with it to a point. But I browse a few gaming forums (this one is the only MMO focused one though), and few are as bad, troll wise as this one. I'm not really sure why this one is worse than the others. It is a busy forum I guess, or many it's the MMO focus, but still....recently, it's been crazy how it's been. How many duplicates of the same hate threads do we need?
Originally posted by Chrisbox Is today's forum discussion just arguements about one or more people's opinions on a video game?
Not sure where you come from, but that's always been the case.
Not necessarily, but sure is in here, and has been for quite a while. Lots of gamers seemingly treat this forum as an extension of their [x] game's official forums, for better or worse.
The GW2 hub, for instance, is no better (somewhat worse since last year) than the semi-quasi-official other forum; and what could've been discussed would be drowned, utterly doused underneath sirachi-flavored love letters to ANet. When ANet has staff members on forums telling fans to calm down over the NDA-agreement-break and other closed(!) beta test announcements, you get the idea.
Forums: The best real-time interactive MMORPG you'll ever be in.
smh_alot mostly wraps the thread. A lot of forums are a bit like a big open (& free) canteen. Everyone enters expecting a different menu and demanding what THEY ordered be served, immediately! Converting others seems to improve the possibility that the menu will be as they imagined. That's when all hell breaks loose with some deciding they prefer to defecate on the tables and then sling their own muck (or what's being served; it's hard to tell the difference!) at anyone and everyone. At least they're serving free entertainment; but you're best advised to byo. ; )
Ranting is always going to trump intelligent discussion on forums because it's just easier for people to rant about something. I'd like to see more discussion on things rather than just people yelling "This game is crap!!" I just don't see it ever being the norm.
You could always create a fanpage with an attached forum where you set the rules. That way you can ban anyone not there to discuss how awesome a game is.
This was so off from the point I was trying to make. I've posted my thoughts on many games in a forum before, and if it was a negative review I would atleast make it constructive and tell the readers why I dislike the game or parts of it.
No matter how elequent well written and correct the points you are trying to make are. If somebody doesn't want to agree with you they simply won't
Facts, logic and well documented examples takes a back seat at that point. It's how forums work.
The problem is, some people attempt to tout their opinion as fact, while others seem to think that, because of facts that may be, everyone should share their opinion.
For example; "Game X takes a long time to level compared to game Y." (fact) "Therefor game X is crap and if you like it you're ignoring facts" (opinion).
All the facts in the world are meaningless when trying to argue opinion. They're great for explaining how an opinion is formed, but it doesn't make one opinion "right" or another "wrong".
This. Hard to argue a point with someone if they are convinced their opinion is a god given fact. Then they call you a liar because you don't agree with their opinion.
Another bothering trend is the polarisation of the community. What I mean is that you have to be a rabid hater of a game or a blind fanboi. But the moment you post a more middle-of-the-road view of a game, you get savaged by both camps. What happened to moderation?
Yeah, on the mmorpg.com TOR forums I got called both a fanboy and a hater within an hour of each other. It was an interesting experience. Well, interesting may be to strong of a word, but it was definitely an amusing experience.
Yeah nerds like to whine a lot . .. and almost everyone this day and age is ungrateful. Being a bum anywhere in America and in many other countries is a lot better off than being anyone who had lived hundreds of years ago. Even spending the rest of your life in prison may be a better life than the average person 4k+ years ago.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
If you want to have a conversation on this site without your game being insulted, then head on over to the hardware section. There you'll be told that the game is fine and your hardware is the problem. Especially your power supply.
Comments
Maybe your just too sensitive about 'hate'.
One man's 'hate' is another man's justified criticism.
Not everyone that makes a negative comment is a 'hater', which is really mostly just used as a cheap label to dismiss folks that observe and criticise. A lot just want games to get better.
Discussions that have anything to do with intelect usually don´t start until a few months after launch nowadays, when people can put things in perspective.
For some reason people takes any comment personally regarding just released games and most people usually really hate or love games that are just out. So post in the forums for the games that have been out a while and you´ll be fine instead of saying why TOR is the best or worst game ever...
But it is funny, a few years ago things were not like this. I think it started with WAR, AoC and Darkfall. There have always been trolls and some rage but not like this.
People are free to have an opinion regardless of what facts or data they use to justify it. Many times the same list of reasons you give for liking a game I could give for disliking it.
I'll rephrase Starpower's quote for you. If you want a forum where opinions (positive or negative) must be backed by facts and/or data then start your own forums where you can make such rules.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
This guy knows what's actually occuring. Read it and let the knowledge and reason wash over you
We're dealing with a predominantly mainstream culture in mmorpg's and on the internet these days so it stands to reason that you'll witness the typical closed-minded hysteria and narcissism that mainstream society generally exhibits.
The problem is, some people attempt to tout their opinion as fact, while others seem to think that, because of facts that may be, everyone should share their opinion.
For example; "Game X takes a long time to level compared to game Y." (fact) "Therefor game X is crap and if you like it you're ignoring facts" (opinion).
All the facts in the world are meaningless when trying to argue opinion. They're great for explaining how an opinion is formed, but it doesn't make one opinion "right" or another "wrong".
This. Hard to argue a point with someone if they are convinced their opinion is a god given fact. Then they call you a liar because you don't agree with their opinion.
Another bothering trend is the polarisation of the community. What I mean is that you have to be a rabid hater of a game or a blind fanboi. But the moment you post a more middle-of-the-road view of a game, you get savaged by both camps. What happened to moderation?
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
What, you mean my High Horse? No. I never dismounted it. Why would I mingle with you plebs?
/threadirony
I like what you said, and I agree with it to a point. But I browse a few gaming forums (this one is the only MMO focused one though), and few are as bad, troll wise as this one. I'm not really sure why this one is worse than the others. It is a busy forum I guess, or many it's the MMO focus, but still....recently, it's been crazy how it's been. How many duplicates of the same hate threads do we need?
Not sure where you come from, but that's always been the case.
The GW2 hub, for instance, is no better (somewhat worse since last year) than the semi-quasi-official other forum; and what could've been discussed would be drowned, utterly doused underneath sirachi-flavored love letters to ANet. When ANet has staff members on forums telling fans to calm down over the NDA-agreement-break and other closed(!) beta test announcements, you get the idea.
Forums: The best real-time interactive MMORPG you'll ever be in.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Really?
To me it was mostly ramblings
Ranting is always going to trump intelligent discussion on forums because it's just easier for people to rant about something. I'd like to see more discussion on things rather than just people yelling "This game is crap!!" I just don't see it ever being the norm.
Yeah, on the mmorpg.com TOR forums I got called both a fanboy and a hater within an hour of each other. It was an interesting experience. Well, interesting may be to strong of a word, but it was definitely an amusing experience.
One person's rant is another's thoughtful opinion.
Spam is different. Spam is repeating in the same thread over and over what you said already without adding anything new.
I am against spam, and frozen pizza, on principle.
Yeah nerds like to whine a lot . .. and almost everyone this day and age is ungrateful. Being a bum anywhere in America and in many other countries is a lot better off than being anyone who had lived hundreds of years ago. Even spending the rest of your life in prison may be a better life than the average person 4k+ years ago.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
I took care of that
ty by the way heheh
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL