Thats only your opinion. The 99% majority of peple believe the game is more polished than any other MMO in history--which would pretty much mean your flat out wrong. Its nowhere NEAR beta lol. You're clueless.
Re 'more polished'- by just about any objective measure you choose to apply this is simply not true.
99% of people - right, the hyperbole is strong in this one. Even if that was true it is a logical phallacy to conclude he is 'flat out wrong' (argumentum ad populum or the fallacy of mass appeal). Finally an ad hominem attack (You're clueless) for good measure.
Mind bogglingly barren post. One just has to laugh (and dispair just a little).
too many big words man, he's not gonna be able to understand what you're saying.. but i think my argument "releasing with a broken combat system in any mmo makes it physically impossible for that MMO to have any kind of polish to it, especially when the developers acknowledge that combat is broken" to which he had no reply at all.. was more then enough to make him realise he was "flat out" wrong
When I saw EA was involved. Since they specialize in delivering pablum for the masses, I'm not suprised that this is exactly what was shipped.
This quote from a year ago confirmed it though:
"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."
- Greg Zeshuk
It least he was honest about not even bothering to try and create something new and original. That would be pretty "dumb" of them, wouldn't it?
That's really just a lazy thing.
While you certainly have to have certain conventions that World of Warcraft has (even if you don't like the game, you can respect what they've done), but the idea that "if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."
Warcraft wouldn't have become the juggernaut it was if they followed the philosophy of only doing what had been done before. Yes they stole a lot of ideas from previous games, but also innovated in many areas of accessibility.
Mr. Zeshuk just seems like another person who doesn't realize why World of Warcraft became a success, but wants to copy it anyways.
I wonder what would've happened had the single player Bioware franchises followed that idea of never doing anything that hadn't already been done?
Currently SWTOR is one of if not at the top of polished games out there. I do not really have an issue with it so I do not see this serious flaw. Yes there can be changes and fixes, but honestly I can't say there is an MMo out there that I can't find some fault with. If a game isn't for you then move on, and don't waste your time. It seems like if you are wasting time you really enjoy making logical fallacies or ignorant. No reason to spend time obsessing over something and repeatedly posting where you could spend time playing a game you enjoy more. For me the only game I would honestly play more won't be out for another few years, but hey I enjoy the storyline, I enjoy the options and the consequences to the in game choices. It seems really well put together and pretty much delivers on what Bioware said it would deliver. It seems that some peoples delusions made them think Bioware promised more than they claimed which is intriguing, but not worth my time.
Just curious...
What "consequences" are there to your choices in the game? And what criterion do you use for "polish" I see a world with no ambient sounds, no life to it, that isn't "polish." I won't bring up the subjects of bugs. Every game has them.
Polish is one of those things not essential to a game, but it helps a lot. Polish makes a game a world that you can just lose yourself in, doing nothing at all, and still enjoying yourself. Where does this game exhibit that?
Well there is quite a list.. and not being rash i have a level 50 guardian who i did actually enjoy playing, a level 40 trooper, level 30 sith sorc and a level 30 bounty hunter.. so i've seen a fair amount of the content... before i cancelled i was 4/5 nightmare EV on my main and like 1/5 nightmare.. full clear HM of kraggas, i'm speaking out of personal experience and not just trying to bash on the game BUT...
1. Broken OPs / Flashpoints - yeah some were fun, the new stuff was alot better but still incredibly buggy and broken to the point of walking into *cough*ragnaros 3.0s room *cough* and instadying before even engaging the boss.. walking in lava or doing anything that should actually kill you... then when you do engage him none of his abilities fire.. he stands there melee hitting the tank till he's dead... or people getting instakilled by a rediculous zone around SoA's pillar even while being half way across the other side of the room, etc...
2. Combat - bit of a joke, clunky, buggy some of my guild members would experience multiple animations without the actual skill firing off, i experienced skills not firing but never really the multiple animation bug
3. UI - this was considerably dealbreaking for me, unresizable, uncustomizable, no onscreen warning for "procced" abilities, broken raid frames, target of target half the time not working, being unable to focus a "healable" and "non healable" target at the same time... not to mention numerous other bugs
4. PvP - cap trading in an open world PvP zone.. good job, let's fix it but break it more for a day and even now still with faction imbalance it's hardly worth doing. warzones get boring very quickly
5. Playability - at level 50, when you're locked out of raids for a week and tired of warzones and you cant benefit really from flashpoints.. you can do dailies aaaaaand thats all well i mean u can level an alt too, hunt for datacrons and well thats actually about it.
6. Storyline that matters - except it really didnt... at all
7. Graphics - acceptable of 2005
8. dev team - who apparently ignored so much of the beta feedback and bug reports during beta and shipped a game with bugs that had been reported over 6 months earlier... then using our "free 30 days" as a beta test and finally fixing things that shouldnt have been broken at launch to begin with by the end of the "free 30 days"
9. EA - pulling content that was in beta right at launch, including armor, social gear and a few more bits and pieces.. almost seems like the game has been designed to go F2P within 6 months wouldnt suprise me if it did at this point.
10. Bad business - announcing a red zone, like honestly in this day and age you want to alienate a large portion of potential customers.. now granted anyone who really wanted to obtained a copy and was in at launch anyway, but it's just rediculous to be honest.
now there is more but no one is actually gonna care enough or people are just gonna say i'm bashing to be cool, but this list and a heap of other things i can think of were completely gamebreaking for me... i subbed for my founders title becuase if they do improve it a hell of alot i would check it out again in the future but at this point in time there isnt really any chance of that happening.. and for the record i actually did enjoy myself a little upto level 50 on my main i havent completely hated the game but it just isnt enough
ROFL Every issue you've brought up they are adressing. The graphics are on par with any other MMO right now. They have a resolution updating coming in the near future which will put it on par with even the likes of Rift.
Some people are absolutely unreasonable.
oh sorry it's unreasonable for me to expect a game with 200 million spent on it and that long in development to address issues posted 6 months to a year in advance to be fixed when the game launches.. or at least be on par with the mmo's of today at release... i'm not being unreasonable it's my $15 a month why should i keep paying to play a beta product that literally has nothing to offer me
Thats only your opinion. The 99% majority of peple believe the game is more polished than any other MMO in history--which would pretty much mean your flat out wrong. Its nowhere NEAR beta lol. You're clueless.
Got any numbers to back that up?
Oh that's right, your just throwing stuff against the wall hoping it sticks.
Well there is quite a list.. and not being rash i have a level 50 guardian who i did actually enjoy playing, a level 40 trooper, level 30 sith sorc and a level 30 bounty hunter.. so i've seen a fair amount of the content... before i cancelled i was 4/5 nightmare EV on my main and like 1/5 nightmare.. full clear HM of kraggas, i'm speaking out of personal experience and not just trying to bash on the game BUT...
1. Broken OPs / Flashpoints - yeah some were fun, the new stuff was alot better but still incredibly buggy and broken to the point of walking into *cough*ragnaros 3.0s room *cough* and instadying before even engaging the boss.. walking in lava or doing anything that should actually kill you... then when you do engage him none of his abilities fire.. he stands there melee hitting the tank till he's dead... or people getting instakilled by a rediculous zone around SoA's pillar even while being half way across the other side of the room, etc...
2. Combat - bit of a joke, clunky, buggy some of my guild members would experience multiple animations without the actual skill firing off, i experienced skills not firing but never really the multiple animation bug
3. UI - this was considerably dealbreaking for me, unresizable, uncustomizable, no onscreen warning for "procced" abilities, broken raid frames, target of target half the time not working, being unable to focus a "healable" and "non healable" target at the same time... not to mention numerous other bugs
4. PvP - cap trading in an open world PvP zone.. good job, let's fix it but break it more for a day and even now still with faction imbalance it's hardly worth doing. warzones get boring very quickly
5. Playability - at level 50, when you're locked out of raids for a week and tired of warzones and you cant benefit really from flashpoints.. you can do dailies aaaaaand thats all well i mean u can level an alt too, hunt for datacrons and well thats actually about it.
6. Storyline that matters - except it really didnt... at all
7. Graphics - acceptable of 2005
8. dev team - who apparently ignored so much of the beta feedback and bug reports during beta and shipped a game with bugs that had been reported over 6 months earlier... then using our "free 30 days" as a beta test and finally fixing things that shouldnt have been broken at launch to begin with by the end of the "free 30 days"
9. EA - pulling content that was in beta right at launch, including armor, social gear and a few more bits and pieces.. almost seems like the game has been designed to go F2P within 6 months wouldnt suprise me if it did at this point.
10. Bad business - announcing a red zone, like honestly in this day and age you want to alienate a large portion of potential customers.. now granted anyone who really wanted to obtained a copy and was in at launch anyway, but it's just rediculous to be honest.
now there is more but no one is actually gonna care enough or people are just gonna say i'm bashing to be cool, but this list and a heap of other things i can think of were completely gamebreaking for me... i subbed for my founders title becuase if they do improve it a hell of alot i would check it out again in the future but at this point in time there isnt really any chance of that happening.. and for the record i actually did enjoy myself a little upto level 50 on my main i havent completely hated the game but it just isnt enough
ROFL Every issue you've brought up they are adressing. The graphics are on par with any other MMO right now. They have a resolution updating coming in the near future which will put it on par with even the likes of Rift.
Some people are absolutely unreasonable.
oh sorry it's unreasonable for me to expect a game with 200 million spent on it and that long in development to address issues posted 6 months to a year in advance to be fixed when the game launches.. or at least be on par with the mmo's of today at release... i'm not being unreasonable it's my $15 a month why should i keep paying to play a beta product that literally has nothing to offer me
Thats only your opinion. The 99% majority of peple believe the game is more polished than any other MMO in history--which would pretty much mean your flat out wrong. Its nowhere NEAR beta lol. You're clueless.
is that why basically all of the servers in the first 30 days being heavy / full are not light / standard during peak times with maybe 3 or 4 servers actually being heavy to full still.. ohhhh and that there is like apparently sooo many threads about people posting whats wrong with the game that everyone should just stop... (but you must be right 99% majority of the people beleve it's the most polished game ever... so if thats the case.. the 1000000 people posting whats wrong swtor must have a majority of like 10,000,000 odd, rivaling WoW.. impressive if u ask me)
this is exactly what i was talking about i try to post my opinion constructivley without just saying swtor is the worst game ever... when i actually said i did enjoy parts of it and i did enjoy my main to level 50 but everything became overly redundant but nope i'm just hating on the most polished game ever... so polished infact that combat alone has had about 4 fixes so far and still requires more.. the client to server communications was completely broken when it came to reading global cooldown and how it executed checks for it... combat being one of the single most important aspects of a mmo a problem which bioware themselves has acknowledged and tried several times to fix... but still obviously most polished game ever.,.. even with broken combat...
ok, you've stepped into the realm of fanboi when i was just trying to be constructibve and believe me, i've posted all these issues to bioware themselves in tickets, beta repots and all that nonsense, so i did infact want the game to be good, unfortunatly it just shipped dissapointingly and if you infact think you didnt get a beta product at launch.. you're disillusioned plain and simple
Yep, you summed it up... that's a fan(somthing) in denial. This game isn't even as good as WoW in terms of UI and general bugs. Frankly, Its just mediocre at best. The devs and the producers are idiots for failing to avoid the usual pitfalls surrounding end game, AI, UI, etc. They had EQ2, WoW, WAR, Lotro, DnD online, Aion, COH/COV, STO (maybe), Lineage2, Tabula Risa, SWG, etc to look at in terms of what was good and what was wrong and they still made the same ol mistakes with the same ol excuses. I'm just surprised that the company that gave us mass effect 2s combat turned around and gave us vanilla WoW (with blasters and lightsabers) ... really! The so called majority are such die hard star wars fans you could give them a sock puppet show on youtube and they would call you a hater for pointing out its a sock puppet show on youtube.
It may seem trivial to some but one of the biggest issues to me was the lifeless feel of the worlds. I got into the very first Hutta 01 testing squadron. I believe it was sometime in the summer of 2010. Anyway.
I, and a few others, have commented on the lifeless feel of the game, or at least Hutta, since we were restricted to only 1 planet. I didn't think much of it at the time being that the game was in early beta. I figured that they have more pressing issues to deal with and that they'll get it done closer to launch.
Last summer, I got into the Magid marketing focus group test, which didn't have any restrictions and we basically had the whole game available to us. I got to about level 35. The game felt just as lifeless. Again, I and many others, submitted our suggestions on the forums as well as the daily questionare we had to fill out. Didn't make huge deal about it since it was still beta and apparently we were playing an outdated build. So again, I figured that they'll get it done before launch. Launch came and the game is just as lifeless as it was during early beta in the summer of 2010.
In retrospect, I really question the point of those beta tests since it seems that a lot of the feedback was completely ignored. And I'm not just talking about the issue I wrote about in this post. There was a lot of great and detailed feedback by other testers on the beta forums. Stuff that could've really made this game shine and it was ignored as well.
Alot of people mention the lifelessness of the worlds and I too agree. The world feels completly dead and lifeless. Bioware needs to play a game like Skyrim to see how to make a world feel alive and incredibly detailed. Now I imagine they probably left it dead so it would help performance on their crap Hero Engine. it was a massive mistake to not develope their own in house engine. I know it's the engine because Rift has 10x better graphics and runs smooth in large scale pvp, so it can be done.
I was pretty late with realizing that. It took me a few days to grasp after I got to level 50.
But in hindsight I had some tell tale signs earlier: random world pvp kills not registering or rewarding anything, a completely desolate Outlaw's Den, being annoyed with repetitive battlegrounds occasionaly, not really liking Taris and Nar Shadaa's world design, the long loading screens, not feeling compelled to do space on rails after maybe doing 10 missions, unimmersive laggy fleetstations, noone feeling compelled to roleplay ...
I have to agree, EA was the first sign that the game would feel rushed and incomplete, but I wanted to give it as fair a chance as possible after all the undue venom I'd spit on the forums. Then I ran into numerous graphical glitches, falling through floors, not being able to get unstuck without logging out, the list goes on.
It may seem trivial to some but one of the biggest issues to me was the lifeless feel of the worlds. I got into the very first Hutta 01 testing squadron. I believe it was sometime in the summer of 2010. Anyway.
I, and a few others, have commented on the lifeless feel of the game, or at least Hutta, since we were restricted to only 1 planet. I didn't think much of it at the time being that the game was in early beta. I figured that they have more pressing issues to deal with and that they'll get it done closer to launch.
Last summer, I got into the Magid marketing focus group test, which didn't have any restrictions and we basically had the whole game available to us. I got to about level 35. The game felt just as lifeless. Again, I and many others, submitted our suggestions on the forums as well as the daily questionare we had to fill out. Didn't make huge deal about it since it was still beta and apparently we were playing an outdated build. So again, I figured that they'll get it done before launch. Launch came and the game is just as lifeless as it was during early beta in the summer of 2010.
In retrospect, I really question the point of those beta tests since it seems that a lot of the feedback was completely ignored. And I'm not just talking about the issue I wrote about in this post. There was a lot of great and detailed feedback by other testers on the beta forums. Stuff that could've really made this game shine and it was ignored as well.
Alot of people mention the lifelessness of the worlds and I too agree. The world feels completly dead and lifeless. Bioware needs to play a game like Skyrim to see how to make a world feel alive and incredibly detailed. Now I imagine they probably left it dead so it would help performance on their crap Hero Engine. it was a massive mistake to not develope their own in house engine. I know it's the engine because Rift has 10x better graphics and runs smooth in large scale pvp, so it can be done.
Exactly Byteboy, it was just another example of Bioware being lazy and taking short cuts by going with purchasing Simutronics crappy HeroEngine. Instead of investing time and money into their own engine. LotRO looks a hell of alot better then SWTOR and its going on 5 years since release so add a couple more years onto that age due to development etc. Hell in my opinion EQII at max settings looks better over all with rendering and over all game world quality.
I was pretty late with realizing that. It took me a few days to grasp after I got to level 50.
But in hindsight I had some tell tale signs earlier: random world pvp kills not registering or rewarding anything, a completely desolate Outlaw's Den, being annoyed with repetitive battlegrounds occasionaly, not really liking Taris and Nar Shadaa's world design, the long loading screens, not feeling compelled to do space on rails after maybe doing 10 missions, unimmersive laggy fleetstations, noone feeling compelled to roleplay ...
Yeah the load screens in my opinion have gotten worse in the past month plus. For a bit they were getting better then boom upwards of 2 plus minutes for some load screens to finish. Ouch. The only fleetstation for the whole galaxy..hehe.
They claim to have spent 100s of millions on a game that isn't even good enough to be F2P. I wonder where all the money actually went? It wasn't VA or cinimatics, they don't cost that much.
nobody from EA or Bioware has claimed to have spent 100s of millions of dollars on the game. Outside sources have made these claims, but nobody actually associated with the game has.
First sign for me was the a post made during the middle of beta by the project leader telling testers to basically shutup and play the game we are given or leave, that we as gamers are all stupid and the developers know everything.
At that point I realized there was a serious ego issue at play and a major denial factor that has carried over into release.
They claim to have spent 100s of millions on a game that isn't even good enough to be F2P. I wonder where all the money actually went? It wasn't VA or cinimatics, they don't cost that much.
nobody from EA or Bioware has claimed to have spent 100s of millions of dollars on the game. Outside sources have made these claims, but nobody actually associated with the game has.
The first sign I had was when I was like level 12 and spent about an hour trying to set up my chat bars. I just couldn't figure out how to get the combat window up there... I actually never considered that it might not exist.
They claim to have spent 100s of millions on a game that isn't even good enough to be F2P. I wonder where all the money actually went? It wasn't VA or cinimatics, they don't cost that much.
nobody from EA or Bioware has claimed to have spent 100s of millions of dollars on the game. Outside sources have made these claims, but nobody actually associated with the game has.
Yeah they have. And I think his question was more rhetorical than anything... it doesn't matter where the money went, it obviously didn't go towards quality nor innovation or with a budget like theirs, this game would blow people away consistently, not be losing subs.
First sign for me was the a post made during the middle of beta by the project leader telling testers to basically shutup and play the game we are given or leave, that we as gamers are all stupid and the developers know everything.
At that point I realized there was a serious ego issue at play and a major denial factor that has carried over into release.
Yup, that was it for me as well. You are exaggerating, of course, but the general idea is spot on. Bioware are Pros, they know what they are doing, trust us, stop whining about stuff we know we are right about.
Considering what happened with Dragon Age 2, it was a lot of hubris to act that way, especially when they hadn't ever put out a MMO before. And it's getting them into icy water.
My regret is that I saw this, and didn't act and avoid buying a ticket onto the boat. I guess I had some hope that they were really good enough to have that attitude, but in hindsight it was a low-odds gamble that didn't pay off. Administering these games is HARD, and the chances of big blunders are too high to expect inexperienced developers to avoid enough of them to matter.
At least I learned (the hard way) from past experience and didn't do a multi-month subscription.
For me, it was something very simple. I arrived on Hutta and saw the incredibly detailed if lifeless scenery. That wasn't a problem, I expected that from EQ2. I didn't even mind the fact that it wasn't really scenery at all, just a series of pathways; I knew this was going to be a very limited themepark game anyway. No, what got me was that when I returned to the cantina to hand in my mission, I couldn't sit down on a chair. Now, I don't know how difficult that would be to programme or animate but I do recognise that somewhere along the line, someone in Bioware or EA said: 'Siting? Too expensive to develop. Fuck them if they want to sit down, they can squat on the floor. I don't remember Han and Chewie sitting down, do you?'. And it was then I realised this game was bad.
What the first indication to you - either in a statement or press release issued before the game or in your own personal experience during beta or post-launch - that this game was deeply flawed?
You played EQ2 for so long, and never noticed you couldnt sit on chairs in that either? And yet when swtor launched, thats your number one priority?
Bizarre.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
Thats only your opinion. The 99% majority of peple believe the game is more polished than any other MMO in history--which would pretty much mean your flat out wrong. Its nowhere NEAR beta lol. You're clueless.
Re 'more polished'- by just about any objective measure you choose to apply this is simply not true.
99% of people - right, the hyperbole is strong in this one. Even if that was true it is a logical phallacy to conclude he is 'flat out wrong' (argumentum ad populum or the fallacy of mass appeal). Finally an ad hominem attack (You're clueless) for good measure.
Mind bogglingly barren post. One just has to laugh (and dispair just a little).
too many big words man, he's not gonna be able to understand what you're saying.. but i think my argument "releasing with a broken combat system in any mmo makes it physically impossible for that MMO to have any kind of polish to it, especially when the developers acknowledge that combat is broken" to which he had no reply at all.. was more then enough to make him realise he was "flat out" wrong
Personally I think the problem is the engine. They took a fork of the code from an undocumented, incomplete, buggy engine some years back. The front line code monkeys have done a remarkable job wrestling with it concidering what a monumental balls up that decision was. I think you are probabbly correct (sadly).
Oh that's right, your just throwing stuff against the wall hoping it sticks.
Oh, please don't egg him on. If he even bothers to do so he'll just come up with some more humorous numbers and reasoning for why it is 99% like the majority do around here for their hilarious figures.
Come to think of it considering it is usually rather amusing when they do try to give it legitimacy...never mind...
Carry on.
My favorite part about that quote is he actually refers to the other poster as being clueless XD
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
You played EQ2 for so long, and never noticed you couldnt sit on chairs in that either? And yet when swtor launched, thats your number one priority?
Bizarre.
Not Really. I mean the makers of KOTOR and ME .. Need to be able make a working chair for everyone. It is bioware and people have the right to sit in thier mmo.. nothing else is important.
Game breaking mechincs I tell ya.. If unusable chairs was all this game had for problem The developers need a gold star. Sadly I rather them spend the development budget on something.. I dunno. .. Anything else, and this idea that everything needs to be working the game is launched .. Just wow.. I know "SOME" of you never been around at real MMO launch and some of you might have forgotten but I don't remember a single major game launching "with everything" working or in the game and zero flaws.. I could be wrong.
As to answer the ops question , Seriously flawed : Nothing is seriously flawed despite lacking experance in making patchs work (damn newbies) once they get time under the belt.. patching should be better.
Actually I enjoy the game, flaws and all. But then I don't know of any MMO without flaws. I can't take these posts seriously anymore, it's become too much of the 'in thing' to bash TOR these days. I'm not saying there aren't honest complaints about the game, but what I see on these forums more often than not simply doesn't qualify.
When I hit the low-mid 30's on my Jedi Consular... and just lost all motivation.
Then made a Jedi Knight and played till like 27... then lost all motivation.
Then got my motivation back and got my Consular to 50... then lost all motivation to log onto her again after I finished my class story line.
Made a trooper and had a good time playing till about 17... then lost all motivation.
Hmmm...
Not being rude at all, but were you not the guy defending SWTOR against even constructive critics? Going to play every class for the story alone, yielding 1000's of hours of gameplay? Defending the choices they made that were obvious mistakes?
Not that you were every overly rude but you were close at times with people who pretty much voiced the exact same things you are saying now. It just took them a week instead of 2 months I guess.
LOL like I said not being rude to you, but it is amusing to see such a turn around about ToR in what? 6 weeks?.
Maybe want to play that next game for a month or two before shooting people down for stating flaws of your new shiny game. Just a thought
Amusing indeed. Half the fun of these forums is observing overly hyped individuals deflate right in front of your eyes. One of the reasons I tend to avoid defending unreleased games that I have never played
What do you want me to say?
Yeah you were right?
You weren't.
I had a great, great, great time with this game for about 2 months. My experiences in beta and during early access and right after launch were amazing.
I'm sorry I'm not psychic and can predict how I'm going to feel and react after 6 weeks?
I'm glad it only took other people 2 weeks to figure out some of this stuff. I'm also glad some people still enjoy the game immensly despite what many of us consider to be its flaws.
I was honest in what I thought at the time based on my experiences and am honest now based on my experiences.
I don't think anyone has the right to say "I told you so" on either side of the fence.
When my pre-paid time runs out, I'll make the decision as to whether or not I'll continue to subscrube, and that decision will be based upon what updates and additions and fixes they've made etc.
For me there were a lot of pre-game things, most of which have been mentioned here already. However, my first in-game moment that made me realize this game was a steaming pile was the Jedi love-birds quest. Not only was its premise lame (hey i gotta spy on a couple padawans making out), they still got mad at me no matter what option I picked. No guys, wait- I'm on your side- Jedi philosophy is terrible! I totally support your romance, your secret is safe with me? Huh? I'm blackmailing you? F-off, what a terrible, terrible quest, and indicative really of the quality of "story" overall in this game.
For me it was in beta, when I stepped into the world, especially since Coruscant and saw this huge lifeless world with almost zero sound effect, and I felt like in a museum. Even now I am so letdown when I am in some jungle or city and there is total silence and nothing going on around me.
A red flag was certainly also the constant attitude of Bioware, like "neener neener we don't tell" for YEARS; and then Bioware's devs always being totally opaque against suggestions and critique with STUPID brush-off answers like "this isn't about Uncle Own" and "people can't identify with freak races". Like they all knew better, and hubris usually is a bad sign.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
too many big words man, he's not gonna be able to understand what you're saying.. but i think my argument "releasing with a broken combat system in any mmo makes it physically impossible for that MMO to have any kind of polish to it, especially when the developers acknowledge that combat is broken" to which he had no reply at all.. was more then enough to make him realise he was "flat out" wrong
That's really just a lazy thing.
While you certainly have to have certain conventions that World of Warcraft has (even if you don't like the game, you can respect what they've done), but the idea that "if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."
Warcraft wouldn't have become the juggernaut it was if they followed the philosophy of only doing what had been done before. Yes they stole a lot of ideas from previous games, but also innovated in many areas of accessibility.
Mr. Zeshuk just seems like another person who doesn't realize why World of Warcraft became a success, but wants to copy it anyways.
I wonder what would've happened had the single player Bioware franchises followed that idea of never doing anything that hadn't already been done?
Just curious...
What "consequences" are there to your choices in the game? And what criterion do you use for "polish" I see a world with no ambient sounds, no life to it, that isn't "polish." I won't bring up the subjects of bugs. Every game has them.
Polish is one of those things not essential to a game, but it helps a lot. Polish makes a game a world that you can just lose yourself in, doing nothing at all, and still enjoying yourself. Where does this game exhibit that?
Got any numbers to back that up?
Oh that's right, your just throwing stuff against the wall hoping it sticks.
Yep, you summed it up... that's a fan(somthing) in denial. This game isn't even as good as WoW in terms of UI and general bugs. Frankly, Its just mediocre at best. The devs and the producers are idiots for failing to avoid the usual pitfalls surrounding end game, AI, UI, etc. They had EQ2, WoW, WAR, Lotro, DnD online, Aion, COH/COV, STO (maybe), Lineage2, Tabula Risa, SWG, etc to look at in terms of what was good and what was wrong and they still made the same ol mistakes with the same ol excuses. I'm just surprised that the company that gave us mass effect 2s combat turned around and gave us vanilla WoW (with blasters and lightsabers) ... really! The so called majority are such die hard star wars fans you could give them a sock puppet show on youtube and they would call you a hater for pointing out its a sock puppet show on youtube.
Alot of people mention the lifelessness of the worlds and I too agree. The world feels completly dead and lifeless. Bioware needs to play a game like Skyrim to see how to make a world feel alive and incredibly detailed. Now I imagine they probably left it dead so it would help performance on their crap Hero Engine. it was a massive mistake to not develope their own in house engine. I know it's the engine because Rift has 10x better graphics and runs smooth in large scale pvp, so it can be done.
I was pretty late with realizing that. It took me a few days to grasp after I got to level 50.
But in hindsight I had some tell tale signs earlier: random world pvp kills not registering or rewarding anything, a completely desolate Outlaw's Den, being annoyed with repetitive battlegrounds occasionaly, not really liking Taris and Nar Shadaa's world design, the long loading screens, not feeling compelled to do space on rails after maybe doing 10 missions, unimmersive laggy fleetstations, noone feeling compelled to roleplay ...
My brand new bloggity blog.
Heh , 2 letters ; E .... A ..... nuff said.
I have to agree, EA was the first sign that the game would feel rushed and incomplete, but I wanted to give it as fair a chance as possible after all the undue venom I'd spit on the forums. Then I ran into numerous graphical glitches, falling through floors, not being able to get unstuck without logging out, the list goes on.
Exactly Byteboy, it was just another example of Bioware being lazy and taking short cuts by going with purchasing Simutronics crappy HeroEngine. Instead of investing time and money into their own engine. LotRO looks a hell of alot better then SWTOR and its going on 5 years since release so add a couple more years onto that age due to development etc. Hell in my opinion EQII at max settings looks better over all with rendering and over all game world quality.
Yeah the load screens in my opinion have gotten worse in the past month plus. For a bit they were getting better then boom upwards of 2 plus minutes for some load screens to finish. Ouch. The only fleetstation for the whole galaxy..hehe.
nobody from EA or Bioware has claimed to have spent 100s of millions of dollars on the game. Outside sources have made these claims, but nobody actually associated with the game has.
First sign for me was the a post made during the middle of beta by the project leader telling testers to basically shutup and play the game we are given or leave, that we as gamers are all stupid and the developers know everything.
At that point I realized there was a serious ego issue at play and a major denial factor that has carried over into release.
Actually you're wrong. EA has made it quite clear how much they spent on the game from their last stock update conference and plenty of interviews: http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2012/01/20/star-wars-the-old-republic-the-story-behind-a-galactic-gamble/#/0
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
The first sign I had was when I was like level 12 and spent about an hour trying to set up my chat bars. I just couldn't figure out how to get the combat window up there... I actually never considered that it might not exist.
Yeah they have. And I think his question was more rhetorical than anything... it doesn't matter where the money went, it obviously didn't go towards quality nor innovation or with a budget like theirs, this game would blow people away consistently, not be losing subs.
Yup, that was it for me as well. You are exaggerating, of course, but the general idea is spot on. Bioware are Pros, they know what they are doing, trust us, stop whining about stuff we know we are right about.
Considering what happened with Dragon Age 2, it was a lot of hubris to act that way, especially when they hadn't ever put out a MMO before. And it's getting them into icy water.
My regret is that I saw this, and didn't act and avoid buying a ticket onto the boat. I guess I had some hope that they were really good enough to have that attitude, but in hindsight it was a low-odds gamble that didn't pay off. Administering these games is HARD, and the chances of big blunders are too high to expect inexperienced developers to avoid enough of them to matter.
At least I learned (the hard way) from past experience and didn't do a multi-month subscription.
Avatars are people too
You played EQ2 for so long, and never noticed you couldnt sit on chairs in that either? And yet when swtor launched, thats your number one priority?
Bizarre.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
Personally I think the problem is the engine. They took a fork of the code from an undocumented, incomplete, buggy engine some years back. The front line code monkeys have done a remarkable job wrestling with it concidering what a monumental balls up that decision was. I think you are probabbly correct (sadly).
Oh, please don't egg him on. If he even bothers to do so he'll just come up with some more humorous numbers and reasoning for why it is 99% like the majority do around here for their hilarious figures.
Come to think of it considering it is usually rather amusing when they do try to give it legitimacy...never mind...
Carry on.
My favorite part about that quote is he actually refers to the other poster as being clueless XD
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Not Really. I mean the makers of KOTOR and ME .. Need to be able make a working chair for everyone. It is bioware and people have the right to sit in thier mmo.. nothing else is important.
Game breaking mechincs I tell ya.. If unusable chairs was all this game had for problem The developers need a gold star. Sadly I rather them spend the development budget on something.. I dunno. .. Anything else, and this idea that everything needs to be working the game is launched .. Just wow.. I know "SOME" of you never been around at real MMO launch and some of you might have forgotten but I don't remember a single major game launching "with everything" working or in the game and zero flaws.. I could be wrong.
As to answer the ops question , Seriously flawed : Nothing is seriously flawed despite lacking experance in making patchs work (damn newbies) once they get time under the belt.. patching should be better.
+1
What do you want me to say?
Yeah you were right?
You weren't.
I had a great, great, great time with this game for about 2 months. My experiences in beta and during early access and right after launch were amazing.
I'm sorry I'm not psychic and can predict how I'm going to feel and react after 6 weeks?
I'm glad it only took other people 2 weeks to figure out some of this stuff. I'm also glad some people still enjoy the game immensly despite what many of us consider to be its flaws.
I was honest in what I thought at the time based on my experiences and am honest now based on my experiences.
I don't think anyone has the right to say "I told you so" on either side of the fence.
When my pre-paid time runs out, I'll make the decision as to whether or not I'll continue to subscrube, and that decision will be based upon what updates and additions and fixes they've made etc.
For me there were a lot of pre-game things, most of which have been mentioned here already. However, my first in-game moment that made me realize this game was a steaming pile was the Jedi love-birds quest. Not only was its premise lame (hey i gotta spy on a couple padawans making out), they still got mad at me no matter what option I picked. No guys, wait- I'm on your side- Jedi philosophy is terrible! I totally support your romance, your secret is safe with me? Huh? I'm blackmailing you? F-off, what a terrible, terrible quest, and indicative really of the quality of "story" overall in this game.
For me it was in beta, when I stepped into the world, especially since Coruscant and saw this huge lifeless world with almost zero sound effect, and I felt like in a museum. Even now I am so letdown when I am in some jungle or city and there is total silence and nothing going on around me.
A red flag was certainly also the constant attitude of Bioware, like "neener neener we don't tell" for YEARS; and then Bioware's devs always being totally opaque against suggestions and critique with STUPID brush-off answers like "this isn't about Uncle Own" and "people can't identify with freak races". Like they all knew better, and hubris usually is a bad sign.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert