Yup. How could it not be? MMOs are about playing with other people. Instancing removes that. Diablo, is pretty much like WoW. It's an entire genre of games. You should look it up. WoW is more like Diablo than MMOs. I've played MMOs for 12 years and I've never had the situation you're describing, because games that don't have instancing actually know how to create dungeons so that that moronic scenario doesn't occur.
MMOs like UO, DAoC, EQ, were virtual world social MMOs. Games like SWTOR, WoW, Guild Wars, are more like Diablo.
Huh?
No it doesn't. All instancing does is consolidate an experience for a set group of people. Who are, by the way, playing together.
And, if one is keen to do so, one can exit that instance and meet other people and experience that scenario again.
It might be more themepark as each instance is a "ride" but the experience is both good and bad.
A dungeon where anyone can enter is both good and bad because it shows there is life to the world and you can experience the area with any number of additional people who wander in but you also get the requisite number of idiots who infest these games like the plague.
In addition, if a game with instances is a themepark then a game without instnaces is a playground. It is nearly impossible to experience the place in an immersive way without running into some jerk who has to run his/her mouth every minute or someone who feels that starting up dance parties everywhere they go is a good thing.
both styles of mmo's have their pros and cons.
SWToR's issue is not instances. SWToR's issue is that each world is just a playground as well as themepark ride with no community on any of them. There's no reason to continue to be on the planet other than to run through the content and leave.
At least in my opinion.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
A bunch of people playing content together in a RPG setting is, a mmorpg. Simple end of story. Mechanics can vary.
No, that's a MORPG, like a co-op multiplayer online game, where co-op is the mechanics of how tha multiplayer game is palyed.
The first "M" in MMORPG stands for Massive, and TOR is in no way massive with it's mechanics of instancing. You can have 2500 people logged in at a single server, but you can interact with just a few at the time. Not so far from example with the Command and Conquer, with many hundreds of people in the Lobby, but only a few that you played and intercated with at any given time.
SWToR's issue is not instances. SWToR's issue is that each world is just a playground as well as themepark ride with no community on any of them. There's no reason to continue to be on the planet other than to run through the content and leave.
...
I think Sovrath summed up my biggest concern. That's what made me quit.
Diablo has tradable items, dungeons, quest givers, groups, guilds, and crafting. Is it an MMO? No. These are not MMO features. Diablo is a singleplayer game with optional coop. SWTOR is like Diablo. The majority of SWTOR is played in an instance, locked away from everyone else, with NPC companions. Maybe a real life friend now and then. That's not MMO. That's you and a buddy. Hell, even Skyrim has dungeons, quest givers, crafting... Even the raids in SWTOR are extremely small and instanced. And no, GTA does not have coop. It has a multiplayer mode totally different from the main game.
I don't care about Diablo, hence I don't know anything about it.
Yes, GTA has multiplayer, like Saint's Row and other games, that's the point I was trying to make, not nitpicking over the difference between multiplayer and co-op.
Because it uses a heavy dose of instancing doesn't disqualify it from being an MMO. I actually really like it in many cases. When I'm clearing an area to get to the boss and another player runs in and starts attacking... I get pissed. Now I'm sitting there for 5-10 minutes waiting for a respawn and wishing that part was instanced.
So is instancing the big MMO disqualifier to you?
Yup. How could it not be? MMOs are about playing with other people. Instancing removes that. Diablo, is pretty much like WoW. It's an entire genre of games. You should look it up. WoW is more like Diablo than MMOs. I've played MMOs for 12 years and I've never had the situation you're describing, because games that don't have instancing actually know how to create dungeons so that that moronic scenario doesn't occur.
MMOs like UO, DAoC, EQ, were virtual world social MMOs. Games like SWTOR, WoW, Guild Wars, are more like Diablo.
Man some of you sandboxers need to get over yourselves. You're not the center of the universe. What you think is an MMO isn't the same as most other people. MMO's have a huge amount of variables that can be in as features, or not. Just because you don't like instancing, in no way disqualifies a game as an MMO. If you want to talk about what you like or don't about an MMO, fine, but to say a game isn't an MMO because it has features you don't like is idiotic. I don't play TOR, and I do think it is too SRPGish for me, but there is no single definition of what an MMO is, or what one person or segment of mmo audience thinks it is.
Diablo has tradable items, dungeons, quest givers, groups, guilds, and crafting. Is it an MMO? No. These are not MMO features. Diablo is a singleplayer game with optional coop. SWTOR is like Diablo. The majority of SWTOR is played in an instance, locked away from everyone else, with NPC companions. Maybe a real life friend now and then. That's not MMO. That's you and a buddy. Hell, even Skyrim has dungeons, quest givers, crafting... Even the raids in SWTOR are extremely small and instanced. And no, GTA does not have coop. It has a multiplayer mode totally different from the main game.
I don't care about Diablo, hence I don't know anything about it.
Yes, GTA has multiplayer, like Saint's Row and other games, that's the point I was trying to make, not nitpicking over the difference between multiplayer and co-op.
Because it uses a heavy dose of instancing doesn't disqualify it from being an MMO. I actually really like it in many cases. When I'm clearing an area to get to the boss and another player runs in and starts attacking... I get pissed. Now I'm sitting there for 5-10 minutes waiting for a respawn and wishing that part was instanced.
So is instancing the big MMO disqualifier to you?
Yup. How could it not be? MMOs are about playing with other people. Instancing removes that. Diablo, is pretty much like WoW. It's an entire genre of games. You should look it up. WoW is more like Diablo than MMOs. I've played MMOs for 12 years and I've never had the situation you're describing, because games that don't have instancing actually know how to create dungeons so that that moronic scenario doesn't occur.
MMOs like UO, DAoC, EQ, were virtual world social MMOs. Games like SWTOR, WoW, Guild Wars, are more like Diablo.
Man some of you sandboxers need to get over yourselves.
Stopped reading there. Since when are EQ, DAoC, and games like that sandboxes? Maybe they SEEM more like sandboxes these days because of how few features modern MMOs have, but they were NOT sandboxes. Focusing on multiplayer in an MMO does not make a game a sandbox. It makes it an MMO. Get some perspective and do your homework. The term MMORPG was coined to describe these so called "sandboxes". It was not coined to talk about games like Guild Wars and Diablo. Those have their own genre. It's called a CRPG.
I'd say that pretty much wraps it up. I've been through beta and retail and in my experience it is a good game, however it lacks many of the elements that lend itself to "non-quest time" and developing a community. To me, they are an important aspect in game development, and because of that void the game is somewhat sterile.
What is there to do at max level? Is it raiding, battlegrounds and dailies again? I heard the leveling experience is good but when you hit cap what is there to do to keep players playing?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I rarely post on here..i'm more of a lurker. Been playing MMO's since 2001, bought this game because it was the closest thing I could get to Alternity (DnD sci-fir ruleset) that I could get. I'm not even really a star wars fan, but figured I'd give it a shot. At first I was blinded by the newness of it and thought..hey what a great game! As I got my first character to 50 and then my second, I realized that there is nothign in this game that is actually worth doing once you reach endgame. Today as I drove to get gas, i received an email on my phone from BW..saying that my cc failed to renew the subscription ( I lost my wallet earlier in the week, cancelled all my cc's), and it was almost a relief, so they cancelled the sub for me and I'm gonna go ahead and go back to single player rpgs for a bit. Getting seriously tired of being let down by MMO's..as the glory days of before with older games such as EQ/Shadowbane/Early WoW are gone. The feeling is just never going to be the same. So I'm done..atleast for a year or two.
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made - Groucho Marx
At first I was blinded by the newness of it and thought..hey what a great game!
That is exactly what they design games for these days. The more people they can fool early on, the better the reviews, and ultimately more box sales.
They couldn't care less about longevity, they're after the quick buck and then it's on to the next half-a** wannabe MMO.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
What is there to do at max level? Is it raiding, battlegrounds and dailies again? I heard the leveling experience is good but when you hit cap what is there to do to keep players playing?
yeah pretty much like almost all of the other themeparks out there, god I'm so sick of that model
Diablo has tradable items, dungeons, quest givers, groups, guilds, and crafting. Is it an MMO? No. These are not MMO features. Diablo is a singleplayer game with optional coop. SWTOR is like Diablo. The majority of SWTOR is played in an instance, locked away from everyone else, with NPC companions. Maybe a real life friend now and then. That's not MMO. That's you and a buddy. Hell, even Skyrim has dungeons, quest givers, crafting... Even the raids in SWTOR are extremely small and instanced. And no, GTA does not have coop. It has a multiplayer mode totally different from the main game.
I don't care about Diablo, hence I don't know anything about it.
Yes, GTA has multiplayer, like Saint's Row and other games, that's the point I was trying to make, not nitpicking over the difference between multiplayer and co-op.
Because it uses a heavy dose of instancing doesn't disqualify it from being an MMO. I actually really like it in many cases. When I'm clearing an area to get to the boss and another player runs in and starts attacking... I get pissed. Now I'm sitting there for 5-10 minutes waiting for a respawn and wishing that part was instanced.
So is instancing the big MMO disqualifier to you?
Yup. How could it not be? MMOs are about playing with other people. Instancing removes that. Diablo, is pretty much like WoW. It's an entire genre of games. You should look it up. WoW is more like Diablo than MMOs. I've played MMOs for 12 years and I've never had the situation you're describing, because games that don't have instancing actually know how to create dungeons so that that moronic scenario doesn't occur.
MMOs like UO, DAoC, EQ, were virtual world social MMOs. Games like SWTOR, WoW, Guild Wars, are more like Diablo.
Man some of you sandboxers need to get over yourselves.
Stopped reading there. Since when are EQ, DAoC, and games like that sandboxes? Maybe they SEEM more like sandboxes these days because of how few features modern MMOs have, but they were NOT sandboxes. Focusing on multiplayer in an MMO does not make a game a sandbox. It makes it an MMO. Get some perspective and do your homework. The term MMORPG was coined to describe these so called "sandboxes". It was not coined to talk about games like Guild Wars and Diablo. Those have their own genre. It's called a CRPG.
But you are not talking about those games. You are on a TOR thread talking about that game, and making claims about instancing in games meaning they aren't mmo's. I don't care what you think a sandbox or themepark is. I find your declaration of what an mmo is or is not arrogent and faulty. You are not the definer of this genre. MMORPG's are not a narrow genre of a few games, it has grown and become more diverse. You see your "opinion" and fact, instead of being open-minded.
Dang, people need to more or less analyze themselves for reasons to stay in a game or not.
It is really simple, do you still have fun in the game? If no it is time to stop and find something else.
Time is precious and there are other MMOs to try, if you don´t have fun in any MMO you need a new hobby,
I hope you are not playing SWTOR loke666 ( swedish pride man you need to vote with your wallet) game Blows.. STORY isent the shit and BIOWARE needs to be taught a lesson....
Dang, people need to more or less analyze themselves for reasons to stay in a game or not.
It is really simple, do you still have fun in the game? If no it is time to stop and find something else.
Time is precious and there are other MMOs to try, if you don´t have fun in any MMO you need a new hobby,
I hope you are not playing SWTOR loke666 ( swedish pride man you need to vote with your wallet) game Blows.. STORY isent the shit and BIOWARE needs to be taught a lesson....
Yet you are rushing out to support TERA....good luck with that.....
I actually just cancelled my sub. i was planning on playing this until another gama came out but I simply cannot stand it anymore. The stories are mainly generic as shit and rather transperent. The PvP is a joke on several levels and the population on both servers I've been playing on are dying anyways. It was a nice albeit short ride and I don't regret the purchase but it simply has no long term value whatsoever.
I wish all the best to those that enjoy it but frankly I think they're in for a rough ride because i don't think this game is going to have near the retention rate even I thought it would have.
Pretty much "had" been my plan. I just removed the credit card info so it didn't rebill for another 90days in April. Though I keep just not wanting to log in even to use it as a distraction. I find myself logging into AoC, EQII, LotrO, STO, Rifts etc to meander about instead. Heck even got an email from Blizzard for 7 days free play of WoW so I'd even logged in and checked out that a bit. Screwed around with my druid and hunter. Won't resub for WoW but it was fun to screw off a bit in Tol Barad and BGs.
Honestly LotRO would be my full time mmo-rpg if it weren't for the total lack of decent pvp when that bug bites. The game world is so much better painted and more alive then SWTOR or most any other game world, that is really enjoyable to just roam around. I just need a second game for pvp, for when the I feel the need because the Ettenmoors sucks.
MM doesn't stand for massive and multiplayer. It stands for massively multiplayer. Which SWTOR isn't. But, if we're just going to go by a word for word break down, you realize you could call DOOM an RPG right? Its a game where you play a role, is it not? Stop splitting hairs. SWTOR is a singleplayer game with some optional coop at best. It is NOT an MMO. It lacks ALL the elements one expects from an MMO, except being online.
You have been playing WOW too long bro, you're stuck in the "YOU HAVE TO BE GROUPED ALL THE TIME OTHERWISE IT ISN'T A MMO GAME!" thingy.
MMO isnt all about having to be together, it's optional. It just means a lot of players on the same server.
You have been playing SWTOR too much, you don't know what an MMO is anymore.
Dang, people need to more or less analyze themselves for reasons to stay in a game or not.
It is really simple, do you still have fun in the game? If no it is time to stop and find something else.
Time is precious and there are other MMOs to try, if you don´t have fun in any MMO you need a new hobby,
I hope you are not playing SWTOR loke666 ( swedish pride man you need to vote with your wallet) game Blows.. STORY isent the shit and BIOWARE needs to be taught a lesson....
Yet you are rushing out to support TERA....good luck with that.....
Tera Is a good PvP game.. Pure streamlined classes. In Korea they know how to make PvP games. Its grefing at its best. I like that kind of gameplay.... If they had No quests and no raids I would be even more happy.. But sadly we need them to lure in the Weak willed. The only reason you dont like TERA is because you cant handle getting face stomped.. You can argue that its because of other things but deep down we both know you cant handle it...
the sad thing is.. yes it is kind o a WOW clone, but WOW is still a better game all around and definitely more viale as an MMO and for roleplaying as well as PVP.. never thought i would say that but after playing swtor, i beieve it to be true.. sadly
Keeping sub when not playing is like telling Bioware/EA they don't need to improve their product.
Exactly, i can't imagine why people do this on a regular basis. Need a psycho-analyst to go through and gather data on just how many of the 1.7 are doing just that.
Comments
A bunch of people playing content together in a RPG setting is, a mmorpg. Simple end of story. Mechanics can vary.
you sound like this guy LOL
Huh?
No it doesn't. All instancing does is consolidate an experience for a set group of people. Who are, by the way, playing together.
And, if one is keen to do so, one can exit that instance and meet other people and experience that scenario again.
It might be more themepark as each instance is a "ride" but the experience is both good and bad.
A dungeon where anyone can enter is both good and bad because it shows there is life to the world and you can experience the area with any number of additional people who wander in but you also get the requisite number of idiots who infest these games like the plague.
In addition, if a game with instances is a themepark then a game without instnaces is a playground. It is nearly impossible to experience the place in an immersive way without running into some jerk who has to run his/her mouth every minute or someone who feels that starting up dance parties everywhere they go is a good thing.
both styles of mmo's have their pros and cons.
SWToR's issue is not instances. SWToR's issue is that each world is just a playground as well as themepark ride with no community on any of them. There's no reason to continue to be on the planet other than to run through the content and leave.
At least in my opinion.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
No, that's a MORPG, like a co-op multiplayer online game, where co-op is the mechanics of how tha multiplayer game is palyed.
The first "M" in MMORPG stands for Massive, and TOR is in no way massive with it's mechanics of instancing. You can have 2500 people logged in at a single server, but you can interact with just a few at the time. Not so far from example with the Command and Conquer, with many hundreds of people in the Lobby, but only a few that you played and intercated with at any given time.
By that logic, Dawn of War 2 is the best MMO I've ever played!
Hey TSW Players http://www.unfair.co/ for Mission guides, Lore Locations and stuff....
I think Sovrath summed up my biggest concern. That's what made me quit.
Man some of you sandboxers need to get over yourselves. You're not the center of the universe. What you think is an MMO isn't the same as most other people. MMO's have a huge amount of variables that can be in as features, or not. Just because you don't like instancing, in no way disqualifies a game as an MMO. If you want to talk about what you like or don't about an MMO, fine, but to say a game isn't an MMO because it has features you don't like is idiotic. I don't play TOR, and I do think it is too SRPGish for me, but there is no single definition of what an MMO is, or what one person or segment of mmo audience thinks it is.
Stopped reading there. Since when are EQ, DAoC, and games like that sandboxes? Maybe they SEEM more like sandboxes these days because of how few features modern MMOs have, but they were NOT sandboxes. Focusing on multiplayer in an MMO does not make a game a sandbox. It makes it an MMO. Get some perspective and do your homework. The term MMORPG was coined to describe these so called "sandboxes". It was not coined to talk about games like Guild Wars and Diablo. Those have their own genre. It's called a CRPG.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mmorpg
I'd say that pretty much wraps it up. I've been through beta and retail and in my experience it is a good game, however it lacks many of the elements that lend itself to "non-quest time" and developing a community. To me, they are an important aspect in game development, and because of that void the game is somewhat sterile.
What is there to do at max level? Is it raiding, battlegrounds and dailies again? I heard the leveling experience is good but when you hit cap what is there to do to keep players playing?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
And the opinion that this is all MMO's need to be is the cause of modern MMO's being complete failures.
I rarely post on here..i'm more of a lurker. Been playing MMO's since 2001, bought this game because it was the closest thing I could get to Alternity (DnD sci-fir ruleset) that I could get. I'm not even really a star wars fan, but figured I'd give it a shot. At first I was blinded by the newness of it and thought..hey what a great game! As I got my first character to 50 and then my second, I realized that there is nothign in this game that is actually worth doing once you reach endgame. Today as I drove to get gas, i received an email on my phone from BW..saying that my cc failed to renew the subscription ( I lost my wallet earlier in the week, cancelled all my cc's), and it was almost a relief, so they cancelled the sub for me and I'm gonna go ahead and go back to single player rpgs for a bit. Getting seriously tired of being let down by MMO's..as the glory days of before with older games such as EQ/Shadowbane/Early WoW are gone. The feeling is just never going to be the same. So I'm done..atleast for a year or two.
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made - Groucho Marx
Dang, people need to more or less analyze themselves for reasons to stay in a game or not.
It is really simple, do you still have fun in the game? If no it is time to stop and find something else.
Time is precious and there are other MMOs to try, if you don´t have fun in any MMO you need a new hobby,
That is exactly what they design games for these days. The more people they can fool early on, the better the reviews, and ultimately more box sales.
They couldn't care less about longevity, they're after the quick buck and then it's on to the next half-a** wannabe MMO.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
yeah pretty much like almost all of the other themeparks out there, god I'm so sick of that model
But you are not talking about those games. You are on a TOR thread talking about that game, and making claims about instancing in games meaning they aren't mmo's. I don't care what you think a sandbox or themepark is. I find your declaration of what an mmo is or is not arrogent and faulty. You are not the definer of this genre. MMORPG's are not a narrow genre of a few games, it has grown and become more diverse. You see your "opinion" and fact, instead of being open-minded.
I hope you are not playing SWTOR loke666 ( swedish pride man you need to vote with your wallet) game Blows.. STORY isent the shit and BIOWARE needs to be taught a lesson....
Yet you are rushing out to support TERA....good luck with that.....
Pretty much "had" been my plan. I just removed the credit card info so it didn't rebill for another 90days in April. Though I keep just not wanting to log in even to use it as a distraction. I find myself logging into AoC, EQII, LotrO, STO, Rifts etc to meander about instead. Heck even got an email from Blizzard for 7 days free play of WoW so I'd even logged in and checked out that a bit. Screwed around with my druid and hunter. Won't resub for WoW but it was fun to screw off a bit in Tol Barad and BGs.
Honestly LotRO would be my full time mmo-rpg if it weren't for the total lack of decent pvp when that bug bites. The game world is so much better painted and more alive then SWTOR or most any other game world, that is really enjoyable to just roam around. I just need a second game for pvp, for when the I feel the need because the Ettenmoors sucks.
You have been playing SWTOR too much, you don't know what an MMO is anymore.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Tera Is a good PvP game.. Pure streamlined classes. In Korea they know how to make PvP games. Its grefing at its best. I like that kind of gameplay.... If they had No quests and no raids I would be even more happy.. But sadly we need them to lure in the Weak willed. The only reason you dont like TERA is because you cant handle getting face stomped.. You can argue that its because of other things but deep down we both know you cant handle it...
SWTOR the WoW CLONE that is not a MMORPG!
This place gets better every day LOL
the sad thing is.. yes it is kind o a WOW clone, but WOW is still a better game all around and definitely more viale as an MMO and for roleplaying as well as PVP.. never thought i would say that but after playing swtor, i beieve it to be true.. sadly
Exactly, i can't imagine why people do this on a regular basis. Need a psycho-analyst to go through and gather data on just how many of the 1.7 are doing just that.