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Character Size = PVP Advantage
DataDay
Member UncommonPosts: 1,538
I am sure this has been brought up before or in some other forum, but as I watched more of the beta footage...the racial size differences began to make me wonder if NCsoft is overlooking a critical pvp advantage.
Let me elaborate. First off, I enjoy PvP. I also like to play Male characters and the Norn's theme fits me exactly. So as you can imagine, the moment I saw the male Norn character models is also the moment I realized im not sure I want to pvp much less play the race. Why? They are a giant walking target (oddly saggy manboobs aside) with what appears to be a huge hit box and no real advantage to being big unless its been stated that their attack range is larger than say an Asura or human.
Now in structured pvp, there will always be the min and maxers....aka those who will play with with every advantage the game will offer up.
Since GW2 offers a hit or miss mechanic based on hit boxes and player dodging, size thus plays a HUGE (pun intended) role in where the advantage lies.
Furthermore, since all professions are some how available to all races (scratches head at thought of slyvari engineer) there is no apparent racial advantage in profession choice.
Thus if a small character such as the Asura or or slightly bigger abit thinner Slyvari have the same profession choices, no statistical advantage, and can be on equal ground with a massive Norn or Charr... it seems like if you want to have the best advantage in pvp you need to roll a tiny character.
I have noticed in many games which allow size differences (Aion), the tiny characters make good "party poopers" when it comes to pvp.
I hope Arena Net is planning or willing to look at this potential issue.
Finally, I know not everyone here cares about PvP, so if this is you, as a sign of respect please keep what I assume will be anti-pvp player comments elsewhere.
Thoughts? Reactions? Any info that I am not aware of?
Comments
This first of all, NCSoft are the publishers, providing the financial and commercial backing. ArenaNet are the ones actually making the game. Look them up.
Second. Every Race shares the same hit box. It doesn't matter how large they look. They all move at the same speed and they all share the same hit box. The only advantage the smaller races have is being slightly harder to see, but that's why nameplates exist.
The fact that you simply haven't done enough research to know mechanics like this, just means that your opinion on such mechanics don't mean a thing. This isn't TERA, where your race choice makes a difference to your performance and effectiveness in PvP.
Master is right.
Play what you like, in zergs you might be spotted sooner due to your height, but tab/click nameplate still works
In massive zergs i tend to pick off high damage targets 1st like i did in Aion and Warhammer, so i never look for big targets unless they are very dangerous .
All of the races share exact same hitboxes. This is especially important in this game because you can make your character from 4 feet (Asura) to 9 feet (Norn) tall. Giving the advantage to smaller characters would be a huge flaw. There were similar incidents in some games, bu Anet is too smart for that. Don't worry, you can make a giant Norn and still be great. Remember, it's all about the skill. Besides, that 9 feet certainly add to the fear factor, don't they ?
NCsoft also is a developer (self publish with 1st and 2nd party studios) as well as a publisher. Since Arena Net is owned by NCsoft, it becomes first a first party studio. Thus out of habit I refer to them as NCsoft. Thats not important though, you knew what I meant, so it seems silly to bring that up.
It may just be me, but the manner if which you replied to the post kind of connotes a bit of snobbery. If thats not your intent I apologize, but its just the impression I get from your word choices.
Secondly, you are wrong, if if they share the same hitbox but can be harder to see, the disadvantage is still there. We act on perception. In fact, in game design how we react and what we are able to react to is part of the challenge mechanics presented. In addition, if the hit box is the same, it means their attack range is the same. Therefore if a small character has a small sword that hits the same range as a larger sword mesh on a larger character, it can perceptually be problematic. Just saying it does matter how they look.
Now going by your line of thought, if name plates are the counter to smaller size, then that would imply that longer names make players more noticable, and thus another disadvantage.
It should be obvious that all this is guestimates on my part because I havent played the game, so please lets make sure not to react as though I am stating how the game will play out. It is merely something I am partially worried about.
Add: after seeing your "editing", you have confirmed my initial impression of high douchery and elitism.
I never really thought it was harder to target a gnome or a goblin in wow over a tauren.
/shrug
And you shouldn't reffer to them as NCsoft, as it is a publisher for GW2 only.
Or do you say Mass effect is a EA game, instead of a bioware game?
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
When GW2 comes just role a ton of Asura and see whether your "so-called" leet-ness is more pronounced with them.
Even Tera has normalised the hitboxes and in that game the size does matter. In a tab-target game, it's a non issue.
Here's some copy-paste regarding Tera. I know, irrelevant to GW2 but relevant to size brings PvP advantage:
Originally Posted by Bluehole Studio
If there are major differences in hitboxes so that those of a physically smaller race have a smaller hitbox and therefore are harder to hit, this would be an advantage. Conversely, because these races have shorter limbs compared to larger races, it is more difficult to attack enemies, and this would be a disadvantage. These elements would have a big impact on game balance, and certain races would then be preferred or avoided, and those who wanted to play the disadvantageous races would become frustrated with TERA.
However, simply ignoring the visual differences between races would create a potentially worse problem: lack of authenticity and immersion. This has been a large point of conversation and debate among TERA’s developers. In the end, we decided to make the hitboxes and attack ranges as close to the same size as possible across the races, although not completely equal, so that players would not get frustrated while playing the game.
For example, Barakas and Amani have slightly smaller hitboxes for their size, while the hitbox for the Popori is slightly larger than their size. There is still a difference, but it isn’t as major as the physical size of the model would lead one to believe.
The attack range went through a similar balancing process. The attack animation for the Popori is indicative of their slightly longer attack range, while Amani and Barakas hardly move forward. When they attack, the ranges for races have been appropriately modified and balanced to match their animations.
In short, we tried to make the game as balanced as possible while still maintaining the individual flavor of each class. Therefore, hitboxes and attack ranges have been configured in such a way that they are similar without being gamebreaking, but are not exactly the same size.
It isn't like you're going to be standing in a bush healing people. Doubtful this will be a major issue.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
My Asura's PvP name: "Oddjob Lives!"
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
I'm not sure what you are meaning by "advantage". When I am playing PvP I have the name tags turned on, I'm not looking for the length of the name, just it's presence. A short name will show up just as well as a longer one. I hit tab (or "c" or whatever key I have bound for "Select nearest target"), this will target my opponent and I can then attack them or select another action. I can hit tab to see if there is anyone else in the area and cycle through all of the enemies in the area. I will attack according to whatever strategy is in place on my team.
I'm really not paying a whole lot of attention to your race (except for making a note of it so I know what Racial Elite you may be using) I'm much more interesting in your class, relative position to where I am and that sort of thing.
Based on this, I don't see how the relative size of my character or my name has any affect on my play. After all, I really don't need to "see" you on my screen to target you. The game allows me to get around that requirement.
Note: I am not bringing certain Thief and Mesmer skills into the discussion, since bringing specific skills for hiding/invisibility into this discussion wouldn't be particularly helpful.
I'm curious, are you trying to make GW2 like TERA? Or you just like bashing players who think they might like GW2?
Anyway, its like the others said, its just the hitbox size, its the same thing as jumping, there are still players who think jumping helps them in PvP...lol
Should some characters get smaller hitboxes because they are small, I would say no, too much realism can take away from a game.
Well that is in part due to the "tab" and auto target, something Arena net seems to get rid of (which is actually a great thing).
Again, I said NCsoft out of habit because Arena Net is owned by them and it was just that, habit. If you continued to read I do refer to arena net. Again, there is no logical reason to nit pick this unless there is some elitism and peen comparing going on, and quite frankly that mindset is utterly stupid.
To call a bioware game an EA game actually has a bit of truth to it. A few of my associates (im a digital artist) have worked for EA and Bioware is pretty much run by them. Last time I was at E3, it wasnt the Bioware booth and the developers were not wearing bioware gear...they were EA. EA has a bad insider reputation for controlling projects to the point of rediculousness.
You don't need to jump down the OPs throat. His post makes an interesting point and you cannot expect everyone to have been through all the information that has been released.
Hitboxes are a static size between all races.
Character size giving away stealth is also not an issue, because you have a huge red name floating above your head.
You're litterally a moving box, trying to drop circles on other moving boxes, while try not get hit by the enemy boxes' box like projectiles, and or circles.
Is this a joke answer?
I liked Tera and the CB events convinced me to play at least the first month. I'm also convinced that GW2 will be a good game and thus applied to be included in the recent beta and will be buying the game when it comes out.
Having said that, don't you think that hitbox size is a bigger issue in a game that has no target lock over a game that features a target lock (regardless of the dodge mechanics)?
I was also correcting the guy that mentioned that Tera has big hitbox differences, which is no longer true.
It did somewhat come off this way as the title of the thread is:
'Character Size = PvP Advantage'
That sounds like a statement, though it's simply not true across the board.
'Does Character Size=PvP Advantage in GW2?' would have changed the tone considerably.
It doesn't seem to be any advantage at all in GW2 luckily, primarily for reasons already posted.
Man I loved playing Odd Job in Golden Eye. That is a game where size matters... not Guild Wars 2.
I can understand that, and did consider the wording when writing a subject line. However, subject lines are just that, it is a topic direction, not a statement which reflects on the entirety of the content within.
Foolish is the person who only reads the subject, which is limited by nature, and replies based on personal assumption and intent without actually reading the original post.
It seems to be a common problem in certain game forums.
What I presented was a hypothesis. Size = pvp advantage. It could go both ways, since I do not elaborate on what that entails until the actual post. Its followed by asking for thoughts and responses.
I appreciate your constructive response though. Cheers.
High Five!
Thank you, and much appreciated.
You are right, not everyone knows every single bit of information about a game thats not yet release. Online game forums exist partially for that distribution of information, dialog and debate.
Get better at dodging then.
You can turn on nametags which gives the same visibility for all characters. For the AOE skills where you free aim, it doesnt matter if the hitbox is smaller as long as they are in the marked spot. So hitbox size doesnt matter at all in this combat type.
In your OP you implied that NCsoft is developing the game by referring to them when you said that they were overlooking a critical PVP advantage. Which they cant, only Arenanet can do that because they are the developers. Of course I agree that this is not that important, so I wonder why you didnt simply admit your mistake instead of making excuses.
This thread shouldve ended at the second post.
That depends, if the minimap shows the enemy without you actually having to see them near your character, then yes it might not be a big deal at all. When designing a game, one has to consider how a player will react to a challenge mechanic or the act of identifying an opponent as well as the time it will take to do so. In addition to this, while AOE might not matter as much, not all skills in the game are AOE.
I implied both arena net and NCsoft is developing the game. I can promise you that Arena net obtained assets created by NCsofts artist in Korea for example. I can also explain again that Arena net is a subsidary of NCsoft and as such many resources as well as design influence can and often is shared. Finally I did admit to saying NCsoft out of habit, which it was then followed by in both the first and second post I made with arena net. Yes it doesnt matter so please drop it and there were no excuses given after the fact. Please read.
If it should have ende dbyt he second post, by your logic, why respond now when its on page 2? Sigh, sometimes I dont get some of you.
I hope size will not have as much as an impact as it potentially could in a pvp atmosphere.
It shouldve ended because Master10k already answered your post. Still, you keep claiming the above bs.
The red is simply not true. They have their own artists that won a lot of rewards. They created their own world engine and tools to add content. All from scratch. Please look it up for yourself. NCsoft has no part in this at all.
Asking me to drop the NCsoft part now is kind of lame. You shouldnt have first claimed bs about arenanet then.
And you wonder why I got annoyed enough to seem rather snappy with my response. I wish I could say more but I've already had 3 warnings by the mods lately.