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GW2 storytelling vs. SWTOR storytelling
Creslin321
Member Posts: 5,359
So prior to really diving into how GW2's storytelling works in the press beta videos, I used to consider SWTOR to be the "superior" game when it comes to story. But tell you the truth, I'm starting to change my mind. Because it seems like many of the things that bothered me about SWTOR's storytelling have been resolved in GW2. For example:
1. SWTOR has "class" stories, GW2 has "race" stories - I hated having my story tied to my class. Because that meant that if I wanted to experience a specific storyline, I had to play a specific class. Also, since each base class is really two classes, that means that you can't really make a Gunslinger and a Scoundrel without repeating the story. In GW2, story is tied to your race, and each race can be every class. So you'll never be stuck with a class you don't like just because you heard its story was good.
2. Your SWTOR character's background is completely defined by his class, in GW2, you choose his background - I didn't like that my character was completely defined by his class. One Sith Inquisitor was the same as the next. In GW2 though, you get to actually define your character a bit more to personalize their story.
3. SWTOR's branching was largely an illusion - SWTOR had lots of different VO and dialog choices, but more often than not, they all lead to the same ultimate conclusion. Whether you decide to be a dick or a nice guy, the quest giver's problem still gets resolved somehow and nothing changes with the rest of your story. I'm sure there are some exceptions to this, but it's largely the rule. In GW2, from what I hear the choices you make at character creation will actually have significant effects on your story. Granted, you will not make dialog choices in GW2's story after this, but I actually prefer at least some of my choices ACTUALLY changing my story than just having this illusion of dialog affecting my story when it really isn't.
So what do you all think? If you've played SWTOR, do you think it's storytelling will be better than GW2's? Or do you prefer the GW2 approach?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Comments
I think I speak for a lot of people, but certainly not everyone.
I never played SWTOR because I knew it wasn't going to compare to GW2. Instead of being let down or waste my money, I just decided to be faithful to GW2 wait for the release.
I'm glad someone gets this whole illusion thing. It's why I don't care for bioware games. I played through dragon age and masseffect and honestly, I felt like the constantly picking dialog was just something they put in there to cover up generic stories. Because they were generic. I'll give mass effect a few more points for being a little more creative, but most of the stuff has been done other movies more or less. And the dialog options only mattered at a few key points in the game and the rest didn't matter. It's not just bioware that does that, but still.
I'm sure TOR would have made a much better co-op/multipler game instead of an MMO. Many games that have been coming out would have been better off that way. Many people, gamers and devs, should have realized years ago that MMOs are not the unltimate genres to base something on. Everyone wants everything turned into an MMO just because they think they can relive moments that would be as epic as the show, movies, or games. But you'd just be watching another cutscene.
I don't care for the whole GW2 vs TOR thing, but I think GW2 will be a decent game based on the fact that they're showing us stuff instead of spending millions of dollars on CGI trailers and filming hours and hours of footage showing the devs talk about concept art and story and how good the game will be. So it's definatly a different type of hype for people. I believe that at least 705 of the people that are hyped about GW2 wouldn't be hyped for say an Elder Scrolls game if the devs were just showing teaser trailers and concept art and very rarely showing gameplay. Maybe 50%, but still.
A lot of people including myself didn't bother eith TOR for almost that reason. Not because of GW2, but because I knew they didn't have to make a decent MMO. They knew they just had to make something playable because it has the star wars name. You could put the Avatar (movie) name on an MMO, get it in the media and people would gush over it like they didn with TOR. The hype for TOR came about for the wrong reasons.
There would be very little hype for GW2 if they weren't showing what their game had to offer. Given that a lot of people don't like GW1, Anet has make a good game and thats what they're doing. Everyone that says GW2 will fail or suck and aren't TOR fans, use GW1 not being a real MMO, which it never claimed be, as their reasoning. Which shows they never even bothered reading about it. It's pretty weird that so many people would do that.
Can you elaborate on this more? If your saying that in GW2 your background is what you make it... well kinda same way with Star Wars, or any game really if you want. "I decided my Imperial agent was a Republic outcast with a good heart but, due to blackmail was exiled and joined the imperials." (short version) SWTOR didnt tell me this was what happened to me in the past, i decided that was my character's past and therefor will play as if he had experianced such things.
Or is there a list of backgrounds you choose between in character creation??? i dont get what your saying here.
C
Honestly, I've seen far too many movies and read too many books to easily feel excited by storytelling in MMORPGs. The videos which showed some dialogue from the first GW2 dungeon, almost made me fall asleep.
No prob, I'll elaborate.
In SWTOR, you choose your class and that's it, that defines your character's background. In GW2, you get asked a bunch of multiple choice questions at character creation depending on your race and class. Things like:
1. What is your character's social status? (Noble, commoner, etc.)
2. What god does your character worship first and foremost?
3. Who is your sparring partner (i.e. best friend)?
4. What season were you born in? (Sylvari)
Things like this help you personalize your character to make him YOUR Charr Warrior, and not just another Charr Warrior.
The story of GW2 also gets changed based on your choices here.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
even though I dislike what swtor is, I would say can you guys please wait for the game launch before any of this?
GW2 allows you to define your characters background in game and has branches related to it. For example, you could be born as a nobelman, blessed by dwayna who always wanted to join the circus.
I haven't seen enough of GW2 to see how it pans out, but SWToR is basically just quest text that you can pick to answer in a nice way, a normal way, or an evil way. It's pretty two demensional and the conversations don't even branch depending on what you say in 99% of cases. If GW2 offers half the branching they're saying it has, it'll be a better game for storytelling.
Not entirely sure i like the 'stage-esque' conevrsations in GW2 though. They're cool, but only ever having two characters on screen, with no real opportunitt for background action seems like they missed a trick. The facial animations are amazing though, and the voice acting in GW2 thus far seems at least on par (some characters are much better voiced in GW2, like the main human character and Rytlock for two examples).
GW2 = Emphasis on Character Story and Choices.
SWTOR = A Movie which is constantly interrupted by having to kill 30 of something.
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
I actually generally agree with you. It is very rare that I actually enjoy a game mainly for its story, and I really don't think GW2 will be an exception here.
For me, the story of a CRPG is kind of just a "supplement" to the gameplay experience. It's just something for my character to do. Note the emphasis on "my." I did this because I love to personalize/customize my character and derive a lot of enjoyment for that. The story just gives my creation something to do.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
me and a friend both rolled darkside imperial agent : operatives ... and about lv 35 and above even with us both being darkside our stories went into diffrent directions for quite awhile ... yes we both picked darkside choices and there are more than 1 at later areas of the game ,, you wouldnt belive the diffrence in the story unless you were there ,, so all the OP saying about the story being locked to your class is total BS ,, you can change it anytime you want ,,, of course their not gonna make alot dramatic changes in the first few levels just to satisfy the few that cant make it to 35+ on such a grindless game .... i may or may not try gw2 but im happy for now on swtor and know alot on these forums are here to bash the game ,, as alot of the more intelligent players say ,,, i belive most people that want to try it should ,, if its for them or not it should still go on thier opionion and not just what people are" saying" is happening
Also this:
"Choosing a personality has many possible rewards. Some dialogue options are only available to specific personality types, so for example a barbaric character may once in a while have the option of punching a NPC in the middle of a conversation. Personality may also determine how NPCs react to the character, somerchants may cower behind their stalls when approached by someone of the barbaric archetype."
And your actions may change your characters personality
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Personality
http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/121/1219219p1.html
Most articles I have read indicate that the storyline is pretty boring, and having played GW1 extensively, I am not surprised. The story in GW1 was hardly awe inspiring and I found myself skipping most cinematics.
SWTOR definitely had some great storylines and quests, but on the flipside, some were also terrible. I felt sorry for the Jedi and Trooper players, as they had a massive snoozefest to play through in a game praised for its story.
At the end of the day though, if I wanted an amazing story, I would read a book, or watch a movie. The most important thing in a MMO for me is the combat. If its great, I will be very content for a long time, if it bores me I am gone. I dont care how great the story, crafting or housing is. That stuff is just a bonus.
That makes sense pretty cool idea will enjoy seeing how it pans out
However i will say that while i guild wars you are simply picking your characters background from the start, What if you end up not liking that choice in the long run? In SWTOR you are developing your characters background the entire time you are leveling up and you do not see those choices really come into play untill your higher lvls (40ish.) If you havnt played till 50 you have no idea. Say you made a few bad choices and didnt like the direction your character is going? well in SWTOR you can fix that by making the opposite type of choices.
I stopped playing SWTOR about a month ago but will say that it has by far the best storytelling components in an mmo i have ever played. None of us have played GW2 so we cant really give kudos to their storytelling ability yet. But then again who cares about PVE in GW2 is all about the PVP duhhhhhh
C
MMO storylines (actually storylines in nearly all computer games in general) have tended to be highly dilute versions of previous genre books or films that fulfill peoples expectations and grease the path into immersion in the game, usually doesn't take much. Christ, it's even worse when they make films based on computer game francises, a copy of a copy of a copy is going to a vastly faded version of the original concept, why they do that I'll never understand.
Anyway, every time I start a new game I have yet to NOT cringe my way through another generic Lord of the Ringsesque intro ('The Lords of <insert goodies> have long been plagued the hordes of <insert baddies>, you have been chosen to stand at the front lines of the battle between civilisation and destruction zzzzzzzzzz etc') before deciding whether I liked the game based on actual gameplay. This could change if they get actual (good) writers with proper writing experience to start writing games and not someone who's watched the Phantom Menace 47 times as research. I feel this wont happen soon because companies likely feel people expect generic storylines and a game wont attract the kinds of numbers a 100 million dollar+ investment game needs to break even. So, who's for some more sc-fi fantasy stew? Anyone?
I'll have to experience GW2 storytelling before I can praise/condemn it, but it seems to be a little more "hands off". I make my initial choices and then I just play the game as I normally would.
My problem with SWTOR's storytelling was that it felt really forced with the cutscenes constantly interrupting gameplay, which is what should really carry the game along. I felt the balance between story and gameplay was just not there. If GW2 can get that right I'll be happy.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Can't find much at all to disagree with in your OP to be honest.
Whether a 'speaking book' is a good way of enhancing (or even giving context) to an MMOs gameplay is pretty debatable too. An intresting experiment that no doubt will hopefully save other developers making expensive mistakes.
Prefer the way GW2 sets up the story however the way the story is presented goes to SWTOR.
Ravious of Kill Ten Rats goes into some detail here about choices he made at character creation (his biggest regret) that led to even more impactful choices within the first 10-15 levels (his nationality and therefore ancestry): http://www.killtenrats.com/2012/02/27/gw2-press-beta-the-richest-pve-experience-part-2/
Among the Youtube videos out there, we can see that for example, Yogscast's norn characters had a different personal story progression than Curse's norn characters, as early as level 3 or 4. So I don't buy that you can't make meaningful choices until 30 levels into your personal story. That's a design choice, and if you like it, that's fine, but I personally want more meaningful impact much sooner.
Agreed 100% with OP and I've said as much elsewhere. That I *have* to be a Sith Inquisitor or Jedi Consular to get the gameplay style that I like turned me off SWTOR early on.
In terms of what would be cool to have, and what SWTOR lacks, I'm largely in agreement with the OP. I'm just not convinced that GW2 will have it. NO live game can stand up against an unreleased game upon which we can project all our hopes and dreams. Until there's enough footage out there of differing experiences, AND we have the opportunity to play for an extended period of time, methinx comparisons will be largely devoid of objective opinion.
Typical TOR player answer:
"but it will get better after level XX"
My problem with SWTOR storytelling...it had no effect on the game whatsoever.
Take WoW Cataclysm...you did quests, got a cut scene, and the whole zone changed in some way (more so with the Forsaken lands). Too bad that was only thing I liked in Cataclysm, but at least Blizzard did that part right.
SWTOR? I do a quest and nothing changes, at all. There is literally no point in doing the quests...it would be like watching a movie and the movie never changes and/or goes nowhere.
GW2? I haven't played, except watching the many videos on it. The voice acting doesn't seem that great, though Charr have awesome voice acting. But SWTOR doesn't have good voice acting either...I much prefer Mass Effect and Dragon Age 1, voice acting. Those two had WAY better voice acting than SWTOR...and I love Mass Effect out of all the Bioware games. But as for the story...I don't know. I actually haven't seen many videos of people doing the personal story, it is mostly doing the random events or world vs world gameplay videos.
Yogscast did some personal story quests, and they seemed okay I guess...not the best, but I've seen worse. I just don't see it being the reason to buy GW2...but then again, I haven't seen it in game, nor have I seen much of it at all...only two personal story quests I've seen.
I think it is too early to tell about personal story quests...but it doesn't seem to be a major part of GW2, judging by how every video I've personally watched...its all about PvP or the dynamic events. But who knows...at least until we play beta or release version
I think the important thing to remember is that nobody is talking about how GW2 will portray story at level 40, so there's no need to argue that "we don't know" how GW2 will portray story at level 40 - we know we don't know. What we *can* see is how GW2 is portraying story right out the gate, and it's reasonable to compare this to SWTOR and see the differences.
Again, if you look up Yogscast's norn playthrough you might not get a sense of how the character creation choices impact the story, until you watch Curse's norn playthrough and notice that the starting quest after the tutorial is completely different. This is level 3 content branching out based on character creation choices, even for the same race and same starting area.
Will the choices be this blatant at level 40? Level 80? We don't know, maybe ArenaNet is pulling a Tortage on us. But given that SO FAR they have adhered to what they've claimed - there are threads all over this forum indicating how they've done so - maybe this once we can talk as though this level of story impact is at least *possible* within the GW2 leveling journey.
Naturally, Creslin left out the most important part of the storytelling debate in his post (what a surprise). That part would be the ACTUAL story itself. GW2 won't compare to TOR in that regard. Period.