the wow community is the gaming community(the mmorpg part at least) ... you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who never played wow except maybe the gamer category that is too cheap to play any game that cost money.
Do not assume that all MMORPG-ers have played WoW because you would be wrong. I never played WoW and know enough others that didn't play it too.
And that has nothing to do with money, instead we like subscription games. It has all to do with the type of game, you might be surprised but not all people enjoy spending their time on a hamster wheel.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Nah. I just prefer games that don't drag me around by my hand like an upset mom that pulls her kid around angrily in the grocery store. Excuse me for trying to get her to deviate from the predetermined path that skips the aisle where the Doritos are!
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
I'm going to vote "no" because if you can't evolve your existing game in the direction of a desired sequel, what exactly are you gaining by starting over from a clean slate?
Unfortunately this is a bad place to ask for advice about WoW. The majority of the people here will bash, complain, and throw everything they have against Blizzard's MMO giant. While some people do not like it, subs don't lie and with over 10 million, Blizzard has everyone beat.
Therefore, the logic is, while the forums may be an overwhealming majority against WoW, the masses would be for it.
I suspect a huge % of players here bashing wow play it anyway.
Subs dont necessarily make a game good.
I always compare WoW to McDonalds. It's not particularly good, but its popular as hell.
Actually sometime McDonalds is just perfect, you do not always want the big T-Bones or 7 inches tall harmburger, you just want a good thing that you like.
I think his comment went right over your head.
Your comment would be true if you actually thought McDonalds had the best burger... however, pretty much anyone with an IQ over 70 would laugh at you.
Honestly, both of you are correct in my understanding. Pouf has a point in saying that sometimes McDonald's is just right. When I go to McDonald's I just get a simple meal for a cheap price. Never did he say that McDonald's was superior. I would also agree with FrostWyrm because he points out that while McDonald's is not the worst thing, there are still people who religously use it.
Honestly, if McDonald's sucked, people would not eat at it, so there is something else in the equation. The more I think about it, the more that McDonald's makes sense being compared to WoW. However, I would only take that analogy with a pinch of salt. There are many different things that come into the picture on why WoW has larger subs than other MMOs. I have been on and off WoW for years, and when I find myself searching for something newer and better, I am always let down because WoW is doing it right.
I would love to find an MMO that really encompases all the goodness of WoW and has a new and fresh feel to it. The thing is though, WoW has had years of polish and development to get to where it is now. The game that makes World of Warcraft has so many different elements to it, it can cater an individual for hours upon hours of gametime spent.
With that being said, while WoW may not be recognized by some to be the "Greatest" MMO of all time, it sure has the fanbase, and it cannot be all bad because it retains most of the players that have tried it.
I would play a WoW 2 if it had updated graphics to the point of a reacting world around you, such as leaves moving slightly when you run past them, tall grass bending and swaying as you run through it naturally. Birds getting scared away from bushes when you approach, monster nameplates going away until you select it, and bird/insect noises being present in the forests.
Maybe add some class amalgamations, like combining shaman and mage because it was seen as better to combine the elementals with arcane power. While seperating other classes like making beastmaster its own class and marksmanship hunters become the rangers. Maybe do some crazy stuff like combine a version of ret paladin with a version of shadow priest, making a shadow pally, while giving holy pally its own class as the plate-priest. Make a rogue tank class that uses dodge as the main mitigater.
Maybe throw in some lore like forsaken demanding equal rights on the world stage, dwarves building floating island mountain fortresses, humans out-populating the entire world causing political problems, gnomes as outcasts, tauren as all but extinct. Elves building a futuristic utopia in the trees or around the sunwell, such as Loth'Lorean for NE and Arcadia from FFXII for BE. Use the theme of industry vs conservationism.
Maybe throw in the Titans themselves as the enemies, not that they would want to destroy us, but want to test our mettle and skill by simply challenging us in huge arena's. Have some more Burning Legion vengeance.
Anyway, Since playing TOR I have been getting a small itch and that itch was to hop back into the world of Azeroth, but because of how much I enjoy/ed/ing TOR I find it hard to go back to anyother linar themepark game. So I've been thinking how awesome would TOR's story telling be in a vanilla WoW setting?
Basically would you play and updated (Graphics and what not) vanilla WoW that had Bioware story telling in it.
I find your post very interesting.
You play TOR that has basically copied WoW and added a couple of its own ideas on top of it, and it makes you want to go back to play WoW....I find that really fascinating!
Maybe the way to get WoW players off WoW is actualy to NOT make a WoW clone
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
I hated vanilla wow. I really did. I find it much better now. I remember it taking 40 mins to find a group and then loosing at least two people getting to the damn dungeon. I hated loosing someone mid dungeon and the night being over. As a casual gamer, the current wow is my h more appealing. Also, they will be using a new way to produce textures in mop. So it will be getting a bit if an update in that dept.
It depends on what the game consists of. If it's a mostly combat game with poorly done combat, like WoW is, then no, I wouldn't play it. If they don't fix combat, then story and graphics are just tinkering around the edges.
If they ever did come out with a WoW 2, I would think that they would most likely follow the model that EQ2 followed, in that there would probably be a shop for buyable content, and also they would need to focus more on poeple that would prefer doing dungeons solo.....I mean, keep the dungeons they have already as they are, but if someone wanted to run them solo, as part of a seperate story line that would be cool.
WoW was old and broken when it launched, copying EQ's flawed mechanics. We've since had 8 years of WoW clones that have all been just about as bad as WoW.
Why would I play WoW 2? Blizzard has shown they have no new ideas.
I can't stand the themepark type MMO's. WoW is to easy. SWTOR is to easy. I want pvp to have meaning I want death in the game to have an impact. One reason I play Eve Online. Its harsh and unforgiving with no quest giver telling to you kill XX amount of wild pigs for their intestines. Players make their own content the market is a true player driven machine and the crafting is the best I have seen so far and everything you build it has a use to someone in some place. Unlike many other MMO's out there at present.
The closest on the horrizon for me is TSW or Tera. The pvp has an end game a purpose to it. Crafting in Tera though is meh same as the quests, but I can live with that for decent animations in combat and a really nice art style.
Now if they made a Dark Age of Camelot 2 with the old style RvR and the taking of keeps now I would play that, but as it stand warzones or battlegrounds call them what you will. Have no meaning to the impact of the game and become very dull.
the wow community is the gaming community(the mmorpg part at least) ... you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who never played wow except maybe the gamer category that is too cheap to play any game that cost money.
Do not assume that all MMORPG-ers have played WoW because you would be wrong. I never played WoW and know enough others that didn't play it too.
And that has nothing to do with money, instead we like subscription games. It has all to do with the type of game, you might be surprised but not all people enjoy spending their time on a hamster wheel.
Assuming that everybody played WoW is riduculous. What a lot of WoW players find annoying is people who say how crap and easy WoW is but they have never played it. If they have never played the game, then they are all influenced by other people or some random reviews etc. but they have little personal knowledge of the game. I am not saying that's you of course, just speaking in general.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
You know how much better a new wow could be with todays programming and updated software/game engines ?
It's kind of scary...
I remember reading/hearing about how in order to do the Deathwing raid, in terms of both mechanics and graphics they had to completely break and re-write entire sections of the engine in order to "fake it" because the engine just couldn't/can't pull it off without jail breaking it.
Despite the graphical progress and such WoW has made Vanilla -> Cata, it is still an 8 year old engine...
A updated vanilla Wow with Bioware storytelling (ME, DA and TOR, not classic like BG and NWN)?
No. Certain type of storytelling works in singleplayer games but not multiplayer games. Nothing against TOR as such but it´s storytelling mode would have worked better in a regular game.
Wow 2 will need another selling point instead of the story. i think regular quests (the kill 10 rat type) will disapear from the genre pretty soon. i am not sure exactly what will replace it though, it might be GW2s DEs, TSWs massive quest that only lets you have a single quest and a secondary quest at the same time or maybe WoDO player created quests or something completely different but mmos have gone pretty far with the questing that more or less have been the same since I killed my first 10 rats in Meridian 59 1996.
Combat also needs a revamp, I think Blizzard know this as well and that is why the monks combat style is more action based then earlier classes.
I am sure we will see Wow 2 (after all Blizzard loves sequels) but it will be very different from TOR.
You know how much better a new wow could be with todays programming and updated software/game engines ?
It's kind of scary...
I remember reading/hearing about how in order to do the Deathwing raid, in terms of both mechanics and graphics they had to completely break and re-write entire sections of the engine in order to "fake it" because the engine just couldn't/can't pull it off without jail breaking it.
Despite the graphical progress and such WoW has made Vanilla -> Cata, it is still an 8 year old engine...
8 years? The engine is using some resources from Warcraft 3 (or so say Wikipedia and a bunch of other sources) and while it was announced in 2001 the guy with the idea behind it already started working on it in the late 90s.
The engine have been updated many times but there is just so much you can do with it.
There is always the possibility that Wow 2 might be Wow 1 with a new engine, or at least as similar as SC 1 and SC 2 are.
So kindly try to understand that there are plenty of people who dont.
I don't need to try. You guys are in the face hating WOW and all the modern AAA MMOs in every thread. It is hard to miss that.
Its not the games themselves so much as the lack of a decent alternative. Many people, not just old-school players, are getting sick of the same thing being regurgitated at us over and over again only to have you, and those like you tell us there doesn't deserve to be anything else because what you happen to like is already making money.
Of course I'd play a WoW 2. I played the first one since launch and stopped when TOR was released and my guild went there. We cleared the last WoW raid anyway so there's nothing to do(and still there's nothing to do).
I'm a raider, and I don't know of a game that does raids better than WoW. I like approaching a new boss and figuring the fight out until it's down to a science. I think that's why I love the Mega Man series so much, it's the same sort of thing. Granted raiding now is nowhere near as good as it used to be, boss fights used to be hard. I'm one of those oddballs that enjoys spending weeks on one particular boss, the gratification of getting a kill out of something like that is one I've rarely felt in gaming(plus it helps sharing that with other people on Vent). I think killing C'thun was the peak of raiding for me. Huhuran wasn't a bad kill either, we spent quite a bit of time on that one.
In terms of taking the storytelling of BioWare games... I'd be in favor of that. It doesn't have to grossly limit the game world and the people in it just to put that in, WoW has phasing and that works just fine. I'm one of those people that doesn't bother reading any of the quest text, and I'd sit there in raids sometimes and hear people talk about the lore of the game and I'm sitting there going "Jesus who cares?". Part of that for me is not having played the RTS games but part of that is also the unfriendly presentation of the game world and its characters in WoW.
Voice acting is a double-edged sword though, you have to be able to guarantee that you can get the same voice actors to come back and put in new lines. If WoW was fully voiced... well put it this way, Thrall's been a major part of WoW since launch and they should have the same voice actor throughout for consistency's sake. 8 years of commitment is a lot to ask out of anyone. That's where I applaud the Mass Effect series, voices have been consistent with characters, and the first game came out in 2007... but you start to see the effect voice acting has on DLC/patched content when suddenly all major characters other than the main character have a lot less to say.
Now Playing: Mission Against Terror, Battlefield 3, Skyrim, Dark Souls, League of Legends, Minecraft, and the piano. =3
Comments
Do not assume that all MMORPG-ers have played WoW because you would be wrong. I never played WoW and know enough others that didn't play it too.
And that has nothing to do with money, instead we like subscription games. It has all to do with the type of game, you might be surprised but not all people enjoy spending their time on a hamster wheel.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Nah. I just prefer games that don't drag me around by my hand like an upset mom that pulls her kid around angrily in the grocery store. Excuse me for trying to get her to deviate from the predetermined path that skips the aisle where the Doritos are!
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
I don't need to try. You guys are in the face hating WOW and all the modern AAA MMOs in every thread. It is hard to miss that.
I'm going to vote "no" because if you can't evolve your existing game in the direction of a desired sequel, what exactly are you gaining by starting over from a clean slate?
Honestly, both of you are correct in my understanding. Pouf has a point in saying that sometimes McDonald's is just right. When I go to McDonald's I just get a simple meal for a cheap price. Never did he say that McDonald's was superior. I would also agree with FrostWyrm because he points out that while McDonald's is not the worst thing, there are still people who religously use it.
Honestly, if McDonald's sucked, people would not eat at it, so there is something else in the equation. The more I think about it, the more that McDonald's makes sense being compared to WoW. However, I would only take that analogy with a pinch of salt. There are many different things that come into the picture on why WoW has larger subs than other MMOs. I have been on and off WoW for years, and when I find myself searching for something newer and better, I am always let down because WoW is doing it right.
I would love to find an MMO that really encompases all the goodness of WoW and has a new and fresh feel to it. The thing is though, WoW has had years of polish and development to get to where it is now. The game that makes World of Warcraft has so many different elements to it, it can cater an individual for hours upon hours of gametime spent.
With that being said, while WoW may not be recognized by some to be the "Greatest" MMO of all time, it sure has the fanbase, and it cannot be all bad because it retains most of the players that have tried it.
I would play a WoW 2 if it had updated graphics to the point of a reacting world around you, such as leaves moving slightly when you run past them, tall grass bending and swaying as you run through it naturally. Birds getting scared away from bushes when you approach, monster nameplates going away until you select it, and bird/insect noises being present in the forests.
Maybe add some class amalgamations, like combining shaman and mage because it was seen as better to combine the elementals with arcane power. While seperating other classes like making beastmaster its own class and marksmanship hunters become the rangers. Maybe do some crazy stuff like combine a version of ret paladin with a version of shadow priest, making a shadow pally, while giving holy pally its own class as the plate-priest. Make a rogue tank class that uses dodge as the main mitigater.
Maybe throw in some lore like forsaken demanding equal rights on the world stage, dwarves building floating island mountain fortresses, humans out-populating the entire world causing political problems, gnomes as outcasts, tauren as all but extinct. Elves building a futuristic utopia in the trees or around the sunwell, such as Loth'Lorean for NE and Arcadia from FFXII for BE. Use the theme of industry vs conservationism.
Maybe throw in the Titans themselves as the enemies, not that they would want to destroy us, but want to test our mettle and skill by simply challenging us in huge arena's. Have some more Burning Legion vengeance.
Only then would I play a WoW 2
Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent
I find your post very interesting.
You play TOR that has basically copied WoW and added a couple of its own ideas on top of it, and it makes you want to go back to play WoW....I find that really fascinating!
Maybe the way to get WoW players off WoW is actualy to NOT make a WoW clone
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
I'm pretty tired of WoW, and I never really liked it's lore, so I wouldn't go back to wow with better graphics and story.
If they made an MMOFPS of starcraft, I'd be there in a split second.
I would because it is a great franchise. I don't think too much of a good thing is bad. Lord knows this mmo genre needs all the help it can get.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
One thing that always cracks me up about wow haters is how they say "wow is too easy" or "I want a challenge, not ezmode wow"
I'd like to see a screenshot of their hardmode kills lol. WoW hardmodes are exactly that, hard. More challenging than almost any current pve game.
And to the people who say WoW pvp/arena is just a fotm team faceroll, I'd love to see a screen of your 2500+ team
It depends on what the game consists of. If it's a mostly combat game with poorly done combat, like WoW is, then no, I wouldn't play it. If they don't fix combat, then story and graphics are just tinkering around the edges.
If they ever did come out with a WoW 2, I would think that they would most likely follow the model that EQ2 followed, in that there would probably be a shop for buyable content, and also they would need to focus more on poeple that would prefer doing dungeons solo.....I mean, keep the dungeons they have already as they are, but if someone wanted to run them solo, as part of a seperate story line that would be cool.
WoW was old and broken when it launched, copying EQ's flawed mechanics. We've since had 8 years of WoW clones that have all been just about as bad as WoW.
Why would I play WoW 2? Blizzard has shown they have no new ideas.
No basically.
I can't stand the themepark type MMO's. WoW is to easy. SWTOR is to easy. I want pvp to have meaning I want death in the game to have an impact. One reason I play Eve Online. Its harsh and unforgiving with no quest giver telling to you kill XX amount of wild pigs for their intestines. Players make their own content the market is a true player driven machine and the crafting is the best I have seen so far and everything you build it has a use to someone in some place. Unlike many other MMO's out there at present.
The closest on the horrizon for me is TSW or Tera. The pvp has an end game a purpose to it. Crafting in Tera though is meh same as the quests, but I can live with that for decent animations in combat and a really nice art style.
Now if they made a Dark Age of Camelot 2 with the old style RvR and the taking of keeps now I would play that, but as it stand warzones or battlegrounds call them what you will. Have no meaning to the impact of the game and become very dull.
Assuming that everybody played WoW is riduculous. What a lot of WoW players find annoying is people who say how crap and easy WoW is but they have never played it. If they have never played the game, then they are all influenced by other people or some random reviews etc. but they have little personal knowledge of the game. I am not saying that's you of course, just speaking in general.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
It's kind of scary...
I remember reading/hearing about how in order to do the Deathwing raid, in terms of both mechanics and graphics they had to completely break and re-write entire sections of the engine in order to "fake it" because the engine just couldn't/can't pull it off without jail breaking it.
Despite the graphical progress and such WoW has made Vanilla -> Cata, it is still an 8 year old engine...
A updated vanilla Wow with Bioware storytelling (ME, DA and TOR, not classic like BG and NWN)?
No. Certain type of storytelling works in singleplayer games but not multiplayer games. Nothing against TOR as such but it´s storytelling mode would have worked better in a regular game.
Wow 2 will need another selling point instead of the story. i think regular quests (the kill 10 rat type) will disapear from the genre pretty soon. i am not sure exactly what will replace it though, it might be GW2s DEs, TSWs massive quest that only lets you have a single quest and a secondary quest at the same time or maybe WoDO player created quests or something completely different but mmos have gone pretty far with the questing that more or less have been the same since I killed my first 10 rats in Meridian 59 1996.
Combat also needs a revamp, I think Blizzard know this as well and that is why the monks combat style is more action based then earlier classes.
I am sure we will see Wow 2 (after all Blizzard loves sequels) but it will be very different from TOR.
8 years? The engine is using some resources from Warcraft 3 (or so say Wikipedia and a bunch of other sources) and while it was announced in 2001 the guy with the idea behind it already started working on it in the late 90s.
The engine have been updated many times but there is just so much you can do with it.
There is always the possibility that Wow 2 might be Wow 1 with a new engine, or at least as similar as SC 1 and SC 2 are.
Its not the games themselves so much as the lack of a decent alternative. Many people, not just old-school players, are getting sick of the same thing being regurgitated at us over and over again only to have you, and those like you tell us there doesn't deserve to be anything else because what you happen to like is already making money.
Would I play WoW2? Yes
Would I play WoW2 if it had Bioware story telling? No
Think you missed the point.
Many people want game be more hmm "hard" , "challanging" , "demanding" or whatever you call it in gameplay that is NOT confined to instances.
Many ppl don't care that some few HM instances might be hard or that BG / arenas at certain high rank is not insta-win.
They want 'normal' gameplay not faceroll. Combat and non-combat.
But whatever.
Lol, come one, no matter what this hate-site says. EVERYONE would. At least for trying it out. Anyone who says otherways is dishonest.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Of course I'd play a WoW 2. I played the first one since launch and stopped when TOR was released and my guild went there. We cleared the last WoW raid anyway so there's nothing to do(and still there's nothing to do).
I'm a raider, and I don't know of a game that does raids better than WoW. I like approaching a new boss and figuring the fight out until it's down to a science. I think that's why I love the Mega Man series so much, it's the same sort of thing. Granted raiding now is nowhere near as good as it used to be, boss fights used to be hard. I'm one of those oddballs that enjoys spending weeks on one particular boss, the gratification of getting a kill out of something like that is one I've rarely felt in gaming(plus it helps sharing that with other people on Vent). I think killing C'thun was the peak of raiding for me. Huhuran wasn't a bad kill either, we spent quite a bit of time on that one.
In terms of taking the storytelling of BioWare games... I'd be in favor of that. It doesn't have to grossly limit the game world and the people in it just to put that in, WoW has phasing and that works just fine. I'm one of those people that doesn't bother reading any of the quest text, and I'd sit there in raids sometimes and hear people talk about the lore of the game and I'm sitting there going "Jesus who cares?". Part of that for me is not having played the RTS games but part of that is also the unfriendly presentation of the game world and its characters in WoW.
Voice acting is a double-edged sword though, you have to be able to guarantee that you can get the same voice actors to come back and put in new lines. If WoW was fully voiced... well put it this way, Thrall's been a major part of WoW since launch and they should have the same voice actor throughout for consistency's sake. 8 years of commitment is a lot to ask out of anyone. That's where I applaud the Mass Effect series, voices have been consistent with characters, and the first game came out in 2007... but you start to see the effect voice acting has on DLC/patched content when suddenly all major characters other than the main character have a lot less to say.
Now Playing: Mission Against Terror, Battlefield 3, Skyrim, Dark Souls, League of Legends, Minecraft, and the piano. =3
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