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Infinity and beyond?
blognorg
Member UncommonPosts: 643
This question is like beating a dead horse... but what is beyond the level cap? Don't get me wrong, I really dislike endgame-focused MMOs. However, I have to wonder, what's going to keep people gaming. For one, there is no level curve, so I"m assuming that many will reach the cap pretty quickly. I know there is is PvP, achievements and cosmetic stuff, but a lot of that won't keep people playing. I think that may be one the caveats of the game. I mean, people were complaining about a lack of stuff to do in TOR when the level cap was met, even when there was content. After the cap, there was still PvP, raiding, achievements or the option to roll an alt.
So, my question is: what's to stop people from making the same complaints about GW2? Obviously, there are going to be people complaining about a game no matter what. I'm talking about a lot of people complaining, though.
Comments
it's a buy to play game. once you buy the box they dont owe you anything. people will continue to play if they have fun. if not they will stop.
I've got the straight edge.
pretty much this.
You don't pay a monthly fee so what you buy is what you get. If you want to keep playing then do so, else you bought yourself a hell of alot of content for the box price.
People don't complain because there isn't anything to do in the game.
People complain because they like complaining.
Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that the game is a bad value. It is an MMO, though. People have certain expectations of this type of game... especially this one. I'm just curious if there might be a mass complaint, like in TOR. GW2 doesn't seem grind-heavy, but the flip-side is that people will hit a wall sooner.
1) you can complete achievements and gather loot from all the levels of the open world (with sidekicking and the way loot works the entire game world stays open to you)
2) explorable dungeons are extremely tough, i hear
3) laddered e-sport competetive PvP
4) endless wars for the glory of your server in WvW
In fact, I'd buy the game just for the last two and due to level mechanics there they are pretty much level-less game modes.
Imo there's plenty to do "after 80". In fact, ANet's stance is that the endgame begins with character creation - you won't be suddenly doing different things just because you're 80. Leveling is really just a very secondary mechanic here and ANet initially wanted to make GW2 completely level-less.
i think there will be. it seems to be a very casual game. and it may appeal to large audience, but it will not appeal to everyone. people that buy into the hype without any research, might be very dissapointed. but all Arenanet has to do is sell boxes to make money. They won't owe anyone more content.
I've got the straight edge.
that is western culture at it's worse.
you don't have to have a metric for personal development. whether there are 80 levels or a million is irrelevant.
people will play and once they hit cap they will focus on more multi-player oriented stuff. if they really will have guild questing (as oposed to wow's questing and leveling for guilds) then there will be a ton of new player generated content towards gearing up for various endeavors, including the PvP and WvWvW and when new expansions are released the content will stack drawing out the time it takes for content to be irrelevant.
the way the game is supposed to be designed is the opposite of the infamous korean grind. the content stacking means that basically because the guilds will be all set up they can make huge requirements of guilds/players in terms of resources to get access to certain parts of the expansion's content.
so if this is executed well, the opposite of the race to cap will happen.
"value for money" and how that impacts on perceived quality. It does have an undoubted effect on how much complaining ppl feel they are justified in making. As above, likely much less (ppl like fairness, so do dogs actually)!
But in terms of the game's longevity?
Dynamic Events are supposed to be re-doable
Side-kick down at any level so whole map is accessible to explore
Alts + alternative personal stories + professions with v different gameplay -> replay
Achievements/sets/titles etc for ppl who like that sort of thing
Areas of most challenge eg do a dungeon in explore mode with only 3 of you to bump up the challenge
WvWvW, Structured PvP
B2P -> play another mmorpg alongside until new content comes out again.
The more qualitative impact, if you enjoy the artwork/ambience and exploring and lore and mini-games/random stuff/crafting/guild features & interactions > the main game of other mmorpgs... even at level cap ppl will be playing the game in preference. Seems v polished/lots of competing options in game, lots of choice avoiding a dead-end experience?
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
This's been discussed quite a few times before, but..
Gw2's scaling mechanic allows people to be challenged anywhere he goes. He could be lv 80 and still have fun in lv 1 area. You can go anywhere and there's a big chance that once you visit the same area it won't be the same because of dynamic events. 1500+ dynamic events that go in chains and branch make sure that every player have unique gaming experience. Also, end game will probably happening in WvW for the most part. Also hard mode explorable dungeons and competitive PvP. Achievements for those who like that sort of thing - acquiring titles. Also every race have different story, and there's tons of different options. The story isn't linear so there's a big deal of replayability.
Guild Wars 2 Youtube Croatian Maniacs
My Guild Wars titles
There are some really strange ways to approach this. The thing is in GW2 even if you are max level you never out-level the content because of the scaling down of your hero. This allows you to experience events you missed without one-shotting everything in sight making events trivial. The Idea is that leveling can only mean more things for you to do, not less.
The problem with most current content is that it is available all the time and follows strict 'stages' of the quest or lvling. Content is available as soon as you reach the requirements and this ultimately allows the player to 'burn' through or out level content.
The main difference with dynamic events is that not all of the content is available at any given time. If someone else completes an event you will not be able to experience that content until it reaches its reset cycle/chains back to another stage. Some events may be rarer or harder to find in an out of the way place with few markers. There may be events that are triggered by player presence without npcs calling for your help. My point remains that because not all the content is available all the time it is actually impossible to burn through the game. Here, after the cap you may have only seen half the events.
Built into the lvling system in GW2 is exploration. Skill points are accquired through feats instead of growth so this is something to take into consideration.
Gw2 dungeons are slightly more advanced in terms of content where some will have branching points. Although this will bring some longevity I think they will still eventually get to the point where they are considered easy content. How long it will take to get to this point is a question that remains to be answered.
The raiding thing is something I've spoken about before (and many times on the forums) The question is what do you want from raiding? Loot isn't going to be a problem with transmutation stones. Epic bosses will be littered in the world and in dungeons. Bosses you can never out level (too much) mind you.
PvP is the ultimate GW2 endgame. Don't be disillusioned. While PVE will play a massive part GW2 the endgame is PVP. I cannot predict whether people will enjoy PVP and may roll Alts for new storylines/personal story choices/exploration.
It's a very difficult question to answer without actually playing the game. All these points are quite broad and we haven't experienced any level cap like this.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Why ppl keep playing LoL/DoTA?
What ppl did after they cleared hard mode raids at WoW?
What was the content in Warhammer Age of reckoning and what ppl tried to achieve?
These are some questions and there are personal answers.
I ll answer for me.
At LoL there arent items that you get and your character becomes more powerfull. So why do we still playing? The answer is simple for me. For fun!!! You get the satisfaction that you used your skills right, you took the right decision and you smashed you opponents face! The is also the feling that you got higher rank so your progress is good and you getting better.
At WoW after you defeated the hard encounters either you farmed the instance again and again either other things. Other things: You farmed achievements (any kind of them), you tried to focus at exploration or even lore side of the game, you farmed PvP gear (the one you missed couse you did PvE, no matter if you were willing to use it and in general you were in a "farmed mode" couse you had anything else to do...
For PvP players ? Just the same reasons as lol rated arenas and higher rating.
At Warhammer Age of Reckoning you just did some of the instances couse some PvE gear was pretty good for specifics customizations of you char and after this scenarios and RvR. Why you did that ? Couse scenarios was fun and active, you wanted to play with your organized grp communicate and succeed (and later couse you had to farm your weapon from scenario insignias). RvR couse you wanted to run with your guild, organize a bunch of ppl, make strategies, claim a keep, kill an unorganised bigger grp with your small organised grp etc etc.
To conclude at GW2 get all the above and add more fun leveling up experience(dynamic events), a great world (the best that ve seen so far (design wise)), active combat(skillshots etc).
So mainly Gw2 is about doing 5 man instances explorable modes and outdoor bosses with your guild, enjoy your RvR with real objectives(no matter what path gonna follow(getting smaller objectives with your 5man grp, join the zerk or make a huge organized guild based grp or doing the "PvE" part that includes winning ogres to get them on your side and using supplies to build ofensive/defensive weapons), get your 4 friends and play ranked PvP games from lvl 2 without gear benefits from either side!
At the worst occasion and only if you are straight and only PvE player and after you wipe a lot at 5 man instance you ll keep doing what you did in WoW after raids with the advantage that the world is great, the armor sets that u ll farm (IF!) are unique and many, you can do the low lvl content that you missed but now will be challenging (downscales you at area lvl).
So really is GW2 gonna gives you less thatn the other games? IMHO gonna give u a lot more with better ways to do them. And i am telling you even if the game SUCKS, tell me one more game that you pay only once, its MMO and you have to spend so may time in different aspects.
i didnt wrote so many things that GW2 introduce you with better and differnt way.
I am 10 years MMO player and really i ll be happy to give my 50 euros even if the game SUCKS just to say gratz to these ppl that did worked and tried not to give us the same food risking to fail. I am sure that i ll enjoy the game tho and other companies will risk and try to make quality games that respects our time and money.
Enjoy whatever u play. Cheers.
Reaching the level cap means nothing except you've completely unlocked your character and all regions of the world. You'll continue to do the same things in game you've been doing the whole time before.
In this case actually, don't even think you will have your char completly by the time you are max lvl.
Play Guild Wars, find answer.
Depends on how much you focus on gaining skill points before reaching the cap, but yes, lvl 80 isn't neccessarily the end of progression. Point is, the game doesn't change once you cap.
Exactly.
"The Entire Game is End Game"!
You don't play the game to reach the cap, where you will then play a completely different game that is nothing like the game you played while leveling. The sooner people get out of the "I must reach end game, so I can grind X for Y" mentality, the better.
This doesn't mean that there isn't challenging content in the upper level zones that will be difficult and well suited for organized groups and advanced play. The game will get a bit more difficult as you go up in level and can access higher level content. However, since the game will scale you down in level when you face lower level content, while continuing to give you XP and loot based on your true level, if some of the higher level content is just too challenging, you still have the rest of the game's content to play as you hone your skills and make more friends.
Between Dynamic Events, (which you never "out-level"), Personal Story quests and content, gathering, crafting, mini games, achievments, World vs World and Competative PvP, there is almost too much to do in this game. Nothing magical happens at the level cap that makes all that content non-viable or any less fun than it was before the cap. Time to reach the cap is meaningless when determining how much game play Guild Wars 2 has to offer. "Time before I run out of anything fun to do with my character" becomes the metric.
Because of the dynamic nature of the world, five racial lowbie zones, the redundancy of content and the multiple ways your personal story can branch based on profession, race, personal biography choices and decisions you make as your personal story plays out, replayability for alts looks to be about the best ever offered in an MMO.
Many people will get hundreds of hours out of Competative PVP and World Vs. World alone.
Arenanet may expect most people to hit level 80 in about 115 hours, but that does not mean running out of content. There appears to be much more PVE content than is needed to reach the cap and the fact that much of that is tied to Dynamic events means that repeat runs through areas you have been before will show marked differences, keeping things fresh for players who log hundreds of hours in the game.
The question becomes "Do I play the game to follow the carrot on the end of the stick"?, or, "Do I play the game because it's fun"? If your carrot is reaching the level cap and aquiring the best gear for your character, you will obtain that carrot well before you run out of fun things to do. Will you stop playing just because "fun" is the incentive, rather than the quest to obtain some artificial carrot?
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Getting to level cap wont have that importance as most other MMO's have, getting to level cap has a stigma attached and is only important to those that like to say "server first".
These are what I see keeping me playing after cap:
FUN! Pure and simple, the game looks FUN to play. The combat, the environments, the lore, all of it looks FUN. It's why people have always played games.
All the content can be played through AT LEVEL due to scaling. That means I can go back to any zone and play through it and still have a challenge. I won't be able to hit every event on the way to 80 so every one one of them is still viable content to play.
Exploration never stops. You never know if you've seen all the secrets a zone has to offer because there are so many of them, some of them are extremely well-hidden and ArenaNet will be adding new things into areas without announcing it. Every place you've visited can still hold surprises for you, even after having visited it multiple times already.
ALTs. That's a pretty standard reason, but with GW2, the professions play so differently from one another that playing a different one will be a little like playing a different game. You may see the same content, but your approach to it will be quite different, making running it a second time a fresh experience. There are also the divergent storylines which are reported to have enough branching paths that it's simply impossible to see them all.
PvP, and this is coming from someone who typically dislikes PvP. What they've done with WvW is something that makes me excited to participate again.
My friends want to play it, pretty much all of them. That hasn't happened in a game before. Usually there would only be a few in any given game I played that were interested, but this time everyone wants in. That's a big bonus for a long time soloist like myself.
As a somewhat casual player I never get my alts to max level - I'm looking forward to doing this in GW2 thanks to the shallow levelling curve. For me the alts means sooo much more game without it being all about the grind.
The stuff you will be doing after 80 is;
Completing Skill challenges for skill points
Repeatedly attempting to kill Zhaitan because we suck at it
More Hard mode Dungeons
More Dynamic events
More PvP
More Bar Brawls (I wonder why no one has found the bar brawls room yet)
More waiting for that next content patch/pack
In other news, my post count is now in the present day.
This is not a game.
when you hit cap you ( do mini games , pvp , some events maybe , try other classes/races , more exploring ...) Wait for expansion .
I don't know about everyone else but this is one of the only games that I feel like even when I reach "max level" I'll have plenty to do. Between the different forms of PvP, different paths available in explore mode for dungeons, etc
Kind of stunning seeing how normally that is always a concern of mine with a new game I usually pay a freaking sub for. Assuming I enjoy the gameplay and there aren't issues with the W v W v W it is entirely possible I could end up playing this game for a very long time. Which would be nice because outside of EQ, WoW, and LotR I've spent maybe a few months at most in other mmos I have played.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Personally, since there are four classes I REALLY want to play--and four more that I only really (no caps emphasis) want to play--assuming the leveling system is engaging and fun, I foresee me leveling many alts. As for my first level 80, or whatever I consider to be my "main", I see myself switching back to him to participate in some of the more difficult world events, to continue his pvp career, to run some of the harder max level dungeons on explorable mode, to rack up achievement points with whatever seasonal world content they come out with, and, of course, to continue the personal story with each subsequent DLC/expansion.
When I think about past MMOs I've played, it feels like GW2 will offer a lot more at max level than just dungeons, raiding and daily quests, particularly if they keep the story going--as in GW1--with future content updates. The GW world evolves in a very real way, the story continues. (Since I haven't played GW1, I base most of this on a lengthy series of WoodenPotato videos I've been watching on youtube where he goes through each GW1 campaign.) I hope they do this with GW2 as well.
Ths and other replies. Its all about common sense games with classic endgames themselves have retention issues, all Gw 2 did was take the raids out and replaced em with literally better things to do. But yea no need to continue its all been said.I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
The question that I posed wasn't necessarily seeking a personal answer, but more of speculation of what to expect in terms of other people. Let me put it this way. Assume that the whole game was like the structured PvP; you make a characters with everything unlocked, and everything you gain at that point is purely cosmetic. If that was the case, how many fewer people do you think would play the game? I'm just speculating, but I believe it will be the people that wouldn't play, if that were the case, who will be complaing about lack of content once the cap is achieved.
Yes, there is plenty to do, but much of it only yields cosmetic rewards, or no reward at all (other than fun, of course). This may not take to people that are seeking a lot of linear character progression (i.e. levels or gear). I'm not saying I'm one of these peolpe, but there are a lot of them out there. How loud will their voice be after a month or two after release? I made the TOR reference, becuase there was widespread complaining about lack of content, even though many of the things brought up in this thread are also availaible in TOR (like achievements, dungeons and such). Will GW2 suffer a similar fate?
Think about this...
The structure of the game, with the dynamic events instead of all static quests, means that (in theory) that could continually add and re-add and change and remove dynamic events all over the game world at whim.
In a more "traditional" quest based MMO - each quest is assigned a portion of the map in terms of travel time, mob spawns, clickable item spawns, etc.
If you add a quest, you either have to add it on top of current content, which creates problems of clutter and accessibility and/or over population etc. or (like they did in Cataclysm for WoW) you have to re-do the entire zone to add/change content.
The reason they do quest hubs is because all the content has to be carefully planned and tested and located in the world and because everything is static, everything has its own place in the world...
but because all the areas/events in GW2 change and go through cycles and have different phases... in theory, you could just keep adding/changing phases to an event chain.
Because the events occupy the same area, but not all at the same time...