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New trait sistem is not that bad.
Banisco
Member Posts: 240
Ok, i have been reading some of the posts with all the concerns about the new trait sistem, and i think this isn’t that bad. Here is a list of the reasons people are getting mad and why i think they shouldn’t.
-Traits will make people more oriented to the traditional roles (healer, tank and dps)
Well, after looking at some of the traits i found that they do encourage not roles but playstyles, there are a lot of traits who only trigger wen u reach certain life %, so if u are one carzy warrior who loves to get beat, those will help you to stay longer on the battlefield (not tanking because there is not such thing, there is no way to keep a monster focused only on you) giving hell to your enemies.
Also think that you can fully unlock traits at lvl 80, and you get your first trait point at lvl 11, so that means you have 70 levels to explore and try different playstiles, find the one you like and then empower it with traits.
-Weapon related traits (and attunement related ones for the elementalist) will cut the viability of weapon swaping, making you focus on only one tipe of weapon.
Well to be fair this looks bad, but wen you think about it its not. Now we are waiting for the game ansioux to play and we want to play ALL at the same time, so I understand why would you go with all the weapons at the same time, but during the leveling of your character you will find that you like some weapons more than others and tend to use those more often, no matter were are you going. So in the end you will be using 2 sets of weapons (I don’t think no one will go with one of each in their bag just to use on on each battle, that would be tedious) that you can empower with traits. Also some traits are not weapon related and you are free to chose those.
Also with the elementalist, if you spec in one or 2 elemental trait lines, doesnt make the other two usseless, it just gives aditional funtionalities to some attunements, but all the 4 are viable.
-No freedom on trait respec
This also sounds bad, but to be fair, GW2 is a game, it needs rules, in GW1 you couldn’t change your skills during a mission, you had 8 and thats all till you got to a outpost. Here in GW2 you can change not only your first 5 skills with weapon swapin, also the other 5 wen out of combat, this makes the game a lot easier, you can adapt to any situation, but then, why not with traits? Because traits are build to empower certain playstile, if u make a build in a town and then 20 mins later in the field you want to change it, what was the point about making it? This model makes you try and fail in order to make a good build, also being able to respec at any time would make the game slow as hell (everyone stopping every 5 mins to respec in order to kill certain monster).
As a final point, I have to say that some of you are looking the traits in the wrong direction, the traits you use wont decide how you play, but how you play will decide the traits you use.
Comments
Surprisingly this forum is the more sane one with regards to traits. It's gw2guru who were having a spazz attack for no reason.
I see no problem with the traits. The more variety you have to play your class the better. There will always be people who are more tank or healer oriented in how they play, its a playstyle preference. But the fact that there is no taunt ability severely diminishes the so called tank. Even if a person wants to heal mostly, they will have to play dps also in order to conquer the content. But we will see. Getting rid of the holy trinity is going to be tough. As long as they put a crack in that trinity I'll be happy.
I absolutely love it! All form of unique customization is great IMO.
Some people think it will be "Only one set of traits will apply" and I buy that, we've seen it A LOT with Rift, WoW, Swtor etc. and I have no doubt it will happen in GW2 as well... But as Martin Kerstein said:
You haven't played the system. You haven't played the game probably at all or for a longer time period. You haven't any overview how this interacts with other ingame systems. You completely ignore general philosophy behind the game by applying a Guild Wars look to it.
And based on that, you judge that it will be no fun?
I have a feeling that ANet will do a good thing out of this, they seem to be on a roll now so I'm just gonna try it and see
I like traits. It gives variety. I haven't dipped too deeply into them yet because I have been working 6-7 days a week forever, but what I have seen didn't seem too bad at all. I would love it if they made the traits for each class so balanced that there is no "best build for that particular class." There should be many different specs for each class for different playstyles. I hated WoW because each class and spec was cut and dry with how you alotted your talent points in your tree. There was usually only a few points (if that) extra to put into optional traits after you got all the ones that were nessecery and obvious. I hope GW2 strays away from WoW's crappy tree system.
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Currently Playing: Tera Online
The trait system itselves is very nice.
But the fact that you can not respec it as you want will start to feel like a burden very soon and is in contradiction with the general feeling that Arenanet is trying to create... its against their own filosofy.
People need to addapt to situations and their envoronment... that is the core filosofy of arenanet... not being able to respec at will is against that filosofy
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Didnt hear about this. So how does a person respec at lvl 80?
go to a trainer in a city
EDIT:
@OP: i totally agree. this has been blow way out of proportion. i, for one, like this system. also you forgot to mention you can switch out your active traits at any time, so all the traits lines do is a:give you a bump to a stat, and b: determine your trait pool, not which traits you have active.
@Bachus: being adaptable isn't really the core philosphy of GW2. i have no idea what it specifically is, but i'll bet if you watched their manifesto you could get a better idea.
Trait system as is will allow you to use two weapon/spell/kit sets really well, and a 3rd at a mediocre level.
Or you can not max out a line and have more versatility.
How many people are seriously going to be switching between 4-5 sets all the time anyway?
Most people are going to pick 2-3 to focus on, and the system is perfect for that.
Want to switch what your focus is? Go to town and retrain. Done.
I don't see what the problem is...
Even the blog is called : Play your way, and they have been talking for over 2 years how the skill system will allow you to addapt to any situation.
Without free speccing your trait system it will feel very much like old time WoW, where you could either spec your paladin for healing, tanking or DPS, but you could not easilly switch, unless spending a lot of gold.
What i loved about guildwars was that i could make a different set-up before every mission. And i could even save them so it was easy to recall them, or use the set-up of someone else top try it out. Thats one of the things that made Arenanets design filosofy very special. In an open world, and respeccing requiring you to visit a trainer, it will feel like a burden and as i said before, that does not fit the Arenanet vision.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Of course which traits you can have active are determined by which trait pools are available to you. And you can only switch major traits, you have no say in minor traits.
now thats what is the problem.. requiring me to travel to town to retrain everytime i want to excell in a different role will feel like a burden and not be fun, and thats exactly what Arenanet is trying to remove from their game.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Maybe they feel allowing people to spec on the fly will trivialize certain content?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That would mean bad gamedesign.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
i maintain that it's not that big a deal. sure there might be a bit of hassle going to and from a trainer, but it won't be that awful. i like the semi-permanence of it, personally. it'll make me think things through a little bit. and besides, you only unlock trees slowly (only 10 points in a tree until level 40, 20 until 60, then 30). that's plenty of time to goof around, and see what's what. also you only get major trait slots, not major traits themselves, so you can slot in any one of 12 major traits available to that line (i presume at any time, otherwise they wouldn't have said "investing 10, 20, and 30 points in a single line will unlock a major trait slot for the player..."). that sounds like they give you a good deal of flexibility in the lines themselves, so i got no complaints.
EDIT: @Distopia and Bachus: Re.: Maybe they feel allowing people to spec on the fly will trivialize certain content?
i actually agree with this (hadn't thought of it before). and it is not bad game design if it did do that, bachus. imagine if GW1 let you respec at any time, or any game that has come out in the last 20 years. it would ruin the point of having any sort of skill point allocation. honestly, now that distopia brought that up, i think it would be bad game design of them to allow us to respec at any time. "oh this boss has a tough x. spec to a, b, and c." it would knock the challenge out. if anyone can be anything at any given time (that's the key phrase there. i'm so very in favor of being what you want to be, just not in a "i'm everything!" sort of way), then it would just make anything trivial. (also i'd bet there would be fotm builds for one mob, another build for a different mob, etc. silliness.) you've got to learn to play now, not how to spec right.
EDIT2: now i want to send anet an email to tell them to ignore the hate. but how...?
I don't know about that, as it would also be bad design to leave it as is; if they realized being able to change your spec at anytime allowed people to trivialize content. What I mean by trivialize it is: player X: is having trouble with mob Y: due to it having a higher resist to his axe based skills. He changes to sword instantly and easily defeats mob Y.
In this scenario there is no need of a strategy (pre-planning). You can just change when ever you have a problem with a scenario, which might seem fine to many, but when thinking about creating lasting content, part of that is not making it trivial, or allowing the player to make it trivial on the fly.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
But then whats the point on making you make a choice if u can change it at the first problem?
I played GW1 and yes, you cn change your build any time in the towns and outposts, but never during a mission, that means that if you go a mission with a build, and that build is useless at certain point of the mission you are fucked and you have to restart it (unless the rest of the team goes over it). Having to go back to town to respec is no way that hard, because of open world and waypoints that help you to get back to action quite fast.
Also in GW1 wen you chose a build is to play in a certain way, with a necromancer (wich was my main) i choose if i want to go minion master, curses, blood to refill energy, etc, and sometimes i found miself useless in the party because of the build I choose so we had (all the party) to restart in order to respec my skills, with this model yoy can go, respec and back without restarting the mission.
This is how I see it. And this is coming from soemone that played WoW, Rift, and Swtor for more than a small trial period and I am pleased with the system. I also agree with a few points that the other members have been making, so if I copy them I only do so because they are good points.
First, I would say the system is not as constraining as the gw1 players and gw guru people are making it out to be. It is more constrictive than gw1 from what I gather, and for those of you that refuse to have as little difference from gw1 you will most likely not be swayed by any argument. That sucks, but I get where you are coming from.
The traits system seems to be a mixture of gw1 and what we have gotten from major Pay to Play MMO's. Think of it like a skill tree. Most are locked completely with different branches and while you could swap whole tress depending on slots it made that cumbersome, becuase in reality 3 or 4 templets is really all (i would wager) 80% of any community could want to do 90% of their activities while online. This is then the crux of the controversy or concern that most new or moderatly informed players might have. FACT: It has been said that you will gain a PvP oriented trait line when you zone into PvP areas. THis leads me to conclude that there will be at least 2 trait systems for the player to use. This prevents the gold sink that most players would experience for shifting between their PvE/Grinding spec they perfer, and how they chose to PvP. So if the Devs would implement a system of saved trait lines that you can import upon ReSpecing or as a Microtransaction the ability to purchase some sort of hot swap out of combat system similar to WoW's dual spec system. I believe this would a good microtransaction to help fund the arenanet they miss for not being Pay to Play, and quel the concerns of all but the most adminemtn of may sayers.
Secondly, as aluded to before this system is indeed a mixture of the two (gw1 and most big MMO's). FACT: You may still change your Major traits in lines that you have invested points in at will (or out of combat). This will do two things it gives you the ability to stick in the "Spirit of the play style" while making possibly needed adjustments. The guardian for example has trait lines that if invested in give support for both a 2h high dps style to and 1h and shield support play style that can make the class play more tanky ot more support oriented. This may not be the case for most professions, like maybe elementalis, but it does provide that on the fly changing up that can help adjust for certain situtations. Which in my opinion weakens the argument for those that advocate playes would have to go and respec everytime they would enter an instance. And to add to that the whole argument that a soft trinity still exists, I would support to a limited extent, but retort that no matter if it does or not the game play is centered around utilizing your dodge skills to avoid as much damage as possible. This renders the situation moot, a part of 5 that coordinate, maximize their dmg avoidance, and make sure to pay attention to when to pop their abilities that give, regen, swiftness, protection, retaliation boons is so important that the fact that a player can turn themselves into a tank is all well in good, but if they do not play like that they will be punished by the content.
This change while upsetting to gw1 players is not a killer for this game, there is still flexability in having your own pvp trait system, and flexability in swapping major traits for certain situations. It also gives a seriousness to your choices and makes sure that you give real thought and theory crafting to them. And as been said before in about 2 months after release there will be a small grp of "Elitest Jerks" that will test out what combos are strongest and work best so you can cookie cutter someone elses analysis without having to do one's own.
In GW2 there are no missions, and therefor i want them to treat every DE as a mission, allowing me to respec my traits between these DE's..
In games i dont want to make any definite choices anymore, thats how Real life works, i just love to experiment with different setups, and when forced intoo a single setup i quickly loose interest in the character. I want to be versatile, and since being versatile at a single moment in time ends with being overpowered, i prefer to switch builds... And whats most akward, i know pretty sure that most senior Arenanet developers will agree with me on that.
I am not saying that respeccing freeely is a "need"(will not play without it) but its definately a "want"(will miss it when its not there)
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Skills can be swapped out at any time while out of combat, without needing to return to town... so how would it be any different to let us change up our trait build while out of combat as well? Either both of these things trivialise content, or neither do. You can't argue that one is justified and the other isn't.
Players need to be able to adapt to situations, such as different monster types or players leaving your party mid dungeon run, requiring of you to rethink your party spec.
I've got nothing against a gold fee for reinvesting trait points (so long as it isn't excessive), but requiring that we return to town is just an inconvenience we and our team mates could do without.
A gold fee gives enough sense of permanence in my opinion.
I can see this side but on the other side to many it makes the game more fun. Having those extra options. Just like Rift, having a role for most situations I found to be such a great idea. On top of that I only had to play 4 alts total to have access to every soul in the game was refreshing as well. I liked playing my rogue switching from a shadow dwelling backstabbing one second to a singing, healing, buffing bard the next. I may be strange but to me I like having lots of choices when I play a game. I hate being locked down into one role one play path. After awhile you want to try something new and it's not much fun if you need to start all over on an ALT just to do so.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Anything beats the stupid Skill tree.. so sick of that crap.
The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.
The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...
www.CeaselessGuild.com
Who said it was bad for a start ??
I like it. More options...better.
I don't have an issue with the trait system because of how easy it is to respec. It's a small fee, and you can do it whenever you like as much as you like. Having to run to town to do something only sucks when you have to walk there, but there's so many waypoints in GW2 it's almost ridiculous. It's a non-issue for me. What I ~do~ hope Anet eventually does is let us save builds with said respec NPC, that way we can switch easily without having to manually place points each time.
I can understand some people's upset, but I don't really think it's a big deal. I wouldn't have minded if you could change it anytime you liked for free, but I don't mind this either. Chances are you'll be making those trips to town to repair your armor, anyway. Plus, to be honest, I don't know that I want to constantly wait around in a dungeon party while people play with their traits trying to find just that right build. I dealt with that enough in my short time with Rift. It sucked.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I hate it.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
the biggest complaint i've heard about this new trailt system is that it will somehow pigeon-hole you into using only one weapon set. after reading all the fuss about the new changes, i decided to look at them for myself. maybe im doing it wrong, but i already have a trait build in mind that will work with all of the possible weapon choices, which includes 3 main, 3 off, and even the 2 handed. granted, for now im only focusing on my main charater's trait selection and their level of importance when factoring in known game mechanics. if this is any indication of what to expect when choosing traits, then i see no reason yet that i will have trouble when i get around to my secondary and subsequent charater choices.