I am so opposed to this trait system I would literally pay ArenaNet to change it if I could. I love ArenaNet and I've followed this game for a year and a half and I've been one of its biggest supporters here, but I think this is an area where they are getting it terribly wrong.
I think as implemented it ruins the flexibility and freeform dungeoneering their amazing skill system provides all for the sake of permanence and customization, yet doesn't actually accomplish those goals.
I've posted 75 times since Tuesday on GW2Guru listing all sorts of concerns, objections and flaws to this system, all seemingly falling on deaf ears. I don't know more I can do except for maybe to post something on youtube.
I would say "don't even get me started", but the idea of someone actually wanting to hear what I have to say is too appealing.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I am so opposed to this trait system I would literally pay ArenaNet to change it if I could. I love ArenaNet and I've followed this game for a year and a half and I've been one of its biggest supporters here, but I think this is an area where they are getting it terribly wrong.
I think as implemented it ruins the flexibility and freeform dungeoneering their amazing skill system provides all for the sake of permanence and customization, yet doesn't actually accomplish those goals.
I've posted 75 times since Tuesday on GW2Guru listing all sorts of concerns, objections and flaws to this system, all seemingly falling on deaf ears. I don't know more I can do except for maybe to post something on youtube.
I would say "don't even get me started", but the idea of someone actually wanting to hear what I have to say is too appealing.
And what we've been trying to tell you is, it accomplishes those goals just not in the way YOU want it to.
I am so opposed to this trait system I would literally pay ArenaNet to change it if I could. I love ArenaNet and I've followed this game for a year and a half and I've been one of its biggest supporters here, but I think this is an area where they are getting it terribly wrong.
I think as implemented it ruins the flexibility and freeform dungeoneering their amazing skill system provides all for the sake of permanence and customization, yet doesn't actually accomplish those goals.
I've posted 75 times since Tuesday on GW2Guru listing all sorts of concerns, objections and flaws to this system, all seemingly falling on deaf ears. I don't know more I can do except for maybe to post something on youtube.
I would say "don't even get me started", but the idea of someone actually wanting to hear what I have to say is too appealing.
And what we've been trying to tell you is, it accomplishes those goals just not in the way YOU want it to.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I am so opposed to this trait system I would literally pay ArenaNet to change it if I could. I love ArenaNet and I've followed this game for a year and a half and I've been one of its biggest supporters here, but I think this is an area where they are getting it terribly wrong.
I think as implemented it ruins the flexibility and freeform dungeoneering their amazing skill system provides all for the sake of permanence and customization, yet doesn't actually accomplish those goals.
I've posted 75 times since Tuesday on GW2Guru listing all sorts of concerns, objections and flaws to this system, all seemingly falling on deaf ears. I don't know more I can do except for maybe to post something on youtube.
I would say "don't even get me started", but the idea of someone actually wanting to hear what I have to say is too appealing.
I'm opposed too. This new system just adds restrictions. If only A-Net would remove the extra 4 stats, and keep them on items instead, like gear and weapons.
It's preferable to build a character around trait lines now, instead of a weapon set. This is the biggest reason i hate this new system.
I am so opposed to this trait system I would literally pay ArenaNet to change it if I could. I love ArenaNet and I've followed this game for a year and a half and I've been one of its biggest supporters here, but I think this is an area where they are getting it terribly wrong.
I think as implemented it ruins the flexibility and freeform dungeoneering their amazing skill system provides all for the sake of permanence and customization, yet doesn't actually accomplish those goals.
I've posted 75 times since Tuesday on GW2Guru listing all sorts of concerns, objections and flaws to this system, all seemingly falling on deaf ears. I don't know more I can do except for maybe to post something on youtube.
I would say "don't even get me started", but the idea of someone actually wanting to hear what I have to say is too appealing.
And what we've been trying to tell you is, it accomplishes those goals just not in the way YOU want it to.
Trust me dude, I've read your posts (hello, it's me Dirame) and the points you've tried to convey just keep hitting a brick wall in my brain. In that particular post, you say the trait system is leading you down a path but the truth is it was your decision to take that path in the first place. You could have done something different but you didn't and you're blaming it on the trait system, I find that hilarious.
Let me tell you how I've theorcrafted builds; first I start off with knowing exactly what I want to play around with, let's say a Guardian with lots of weapon summons. The first thing I do is look for any traits that enchance that, doesn't matter where it is, doesn't matter if it's in the vitality trait line or the power line, I grab what I need. After that, you can look at your attributes and then decide whether you're okay with how things have played out or whether you want to take advantage of the attributes you have. It's a decision YOU have to make, the trait system is not forcing you to do it. Yes, you would be silly not to take advantage of what your attributes have to offer BUT the trait system did not force you to make that decision. This is the point I think you and others keep clashing on.
i am just clearing the confusion for myself. People do not like it cause the traits specify weapons and elements? So if you specced with Fire and Water traits for example. Then you are upset because someone may be better with Earth and Air at a particular part of the dungeon?
I was curious about the system, taken a gander at the calculator made up based on beta footage.
It's not a heavily restrictive system people. You have three basic traits that are set in stone, then three major traits you can choose from a list of several for each line. Does each one seem like it emphasizes a certain playstyle? Sure. Yet its also open enough with these traits to accomodate a few ways of playing. Water for Elementalists doesn't have to be healing focused, as there is damage traits in it as well. And just because that water elementalist has chosen healing-centric traits doesn't mean that any other Water Ele can't contribute with healing, as healing as a whole is group-oriented, not player.
It gives you options as how you want your character to play. Messing around with the warrior traits, I already knew I'd be a greatsword person, and at least two of the trait lines have something to support that focus. Looking through there's also traits I grabbed since I also am used to doing some minor group support on my Warrior in GW1, like the added boost to banners and the healing for shouts. Did I have to take those? No, and I didn't have to take the other traits if I didn't want to.
As for the inability to switch out in the open, so what? As it has been mentioned before, its not like you could freely do it anywhere in GW 1, and with the shift to an open world something had to be changed, otherwise you'd have people macroing up instant trait-changes up the arse for everything. Going into PvP? You better have a trait set to deal with the elementalist, and another for the mesmer, and another for the turret engineer and yet another for flamethrower engineer as well. We also haven't heard anything about maybe having a few "Dedicated" trait setups we could register, much like how we have dual talents in World of Warcraft.
Not to mention this is still in Beta. Everything is still subject to change, and if ArenaNet feels like they need to change something I'm pretty darn sure they'll do it, as they have been doing for quite a while now (stat systems, the condition/boons, energy/dodge mechanics, yadda yadda).
also, arenanet's primary means of maintaining balance in gw2 will be through the trait system, not the skills. they may move a skill around between main and off hand weapon slots, but the skills will not be changing much if at all. the traits are what's going to set the bar (no, not skillbar). please try and remember that when you can't seem to get that Perfect Synergy between trait lines and the actual traits. arenanet listens to the mobs too, not just the players.
I see the wailing and gnashing of teeth continues.
So, after spending several hours playing with the trait system and developing several Mesmer builds (that I think are viable as it stands now), one thing I noticed was that it was hard to pigeonhole yourself too much into any "role", contrary to the complaints. Every build seemed to be something that worked under a wide range of battle conditions and didn't look to me like something that I was going to have to constantly be changing once it was set. I think if people are feeling the need to constantly rebuild their characters, it will be because they haven't hit something that supports their playstyle yet. That, or they are hopelessly indecisive.
I was concerned about how little customization was apparent before the trait system was announced. Now we have something we can really sink our teeth into and really build our characters with, and people are grabbing torches and pitchforks. Go figure.
i like complicated trees in an mmorpg. the more complicated the better. sure, they leave themselves open to cookie cutters and SEEM to have minimal choices, but sometimes you can go outside of the box. i remember playing a sub rogue in wow for years, despite being told i was gimping my rogue. was a time you couldn't find a sub rogue. but my play style suited it and i found myself oftentimes doing more damage than other specs simply because of my play style.
you might FEEL compelled to choose certain skills and if you don't you'll gimp, but if there really is a wide variety you might find in some cases it doesn't matter so long as you're choosing traits (in this case) which suit how you play.
that's why it's a choice.
i find it sad that many people look up cookie cutter guides. guides fail to take in the individual's skill and play style which determine which choices to make.
for me: i want a trait system which requires an encyclopedia to use. a whole wiki just for the traits. then maybe we'll see a lot more diversity.
I am so opposed to this trait system I would literally pay ArenaNet to change it if I could. I love ArenaNet and I've followed this game for a year and a half and I've been one of its biggest supporters here, but I think this is an area where they are getting it terribly wrong.
I think as implemented it ruins the flexibility and freeform dungeoneering their amazing skill system provides all for the sake of permanence and customization, yet doesn't actually accomplish those goals.
I've posted 75 times since Tuesday on GW2Guru listing all sorts of concerns, objections and flaws to this system, all seemingly falling on deaf ears. I don't know more I can do except for maybe to post something on youtube.
I would say "don't even get me started", but the idea of someone actually wanting to hear what I have to say is too appealing.
And what we've been trying to tell you is, it accomplishes those goals just not in the way YOU want it to.
Trust me dude, I've read your posts (hello, it's me Dirame) and the points you've tried to convey just keep hitting a brick wall in my brain. In that particular post, you say the trait system is leading you down a path but the truth is it was your decision to take that path in the first place. You could have done something different but you didn't and you're blaming it on the trait system, I find that hilarious.
Let me tell you how I've theorcrafted builds; first I start off with knowing exactly what I want to play around with, let's say a Guardian with lots of weapon summons. The first thing I do is look for any traits that enchance that, doesn't matter where it is, doesn't matter if it's in the vitality trait line or the power line, I grab what I need. After that, you can look at your attributes and then decide whether you're okay with how things have played out or whether you want to take advantage of the attributes you have. It's a decision YOU have to make, the trait system is not forcing you to do it. Yes, you would be silly not to take advantage of what your attributes have to offer BUT the trait system did not force you to make that decision. This is the point I think you and others keep clashing on.
Maybe we have to agree to disagree, because even in responding to this I have to touch on a bunch of different arguements I've also made.
edit: Actually, I just deleted the arguements I made. I have no desire to rehash this here. If people want to see all my attempts at criticizing the trait system, they can just follow the link above and check my post history. If people want to see the counterarguments, just scroll down after each post, lol. I don't think I've made any converts. The next post about balancing is new material though. That one can stay.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
also, arenanet's primary means of maintaining balance in gw2 will be through the trait system, not the skills. they may move a skill around between main and off hand weapon slots, but the skills will not be changing much if at all. the traits are what's going to set the bar (no, not skillbar). please try and remember that when you can't seem to get that Perfect Synergy between trait lines and the actual traits. arenanet listens to the mobs too, not just the players.
My thing is that the skill system is this beautiful, wonderful thing. You can have any class do any role, just not all of them at the same time. You can have an elementalist on your front line in earth while a warrior is in the back dropping AoE with a bow. You can have that elementalist get in trouble and have some random guy use the one control skill on their bar to save them just in time for the warrior to switch to a mace/shield and take over. It's freeform, it's flexible, it's nontrinity, it's awesome.
And the best part is they could balance it extremely well, especially compared to GW1. There's far fewer skills, half are tied to weapon (making comparison from weapon to weapon easy) and no dual classes. There's actually only 870,000 ways to set up a skill bar for a warrior, compared to 152 TRILLION in GW1for one dual class combination (like warrior/monk).
If the skill system can be balanced to an extremely high level, then when they add traits there's nowhere for it to go but down. Think about it. 70 points, 5 trees, 75 traits buffing 10 attributes? The math is harder to compute, but I'm seeing 540 ways you can responsibly (5 at a time) allocate your 70 points. Then there's 580,000 minimum ways to allot 7 major traits after that. Multiply them together and you have 300 million ways or so you can figure out your traits. Multiply that by the 870k skill combinations and we're back up to 260 TRILLION. Holy crap this system will actually be harder to balance than GW1!!!!!! Am I really the only one who thinks this is a disaster?
The thing is that there's ways they could do customization which don't have to be like this. Minor general bonuses. No attributes. No trait synergies. No traits tied to specific weapons or skills. No trees.
edit: when I computed the 870,000, I knew about fewer skills. My estimate is now 1.3 million. This brings the grand total up from 260 trillion to 390 trillion.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I see what you're saying, but your problem seems to be more with specific traits than the system as a whole. The first thing I thought when I looked at the traits on the wiki was that they were clearly not balanced. Most of them look like placeholders.
It was the same thing as when I saw the original list of attributes. It had similar balance problems, but it was clearly going to change.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
also, arenanet's primary means of maintaining balance in gw2 will be through the trait system, not the skills. they may move a skill around between main and off hand weapon slots, but the skills will not be changing much if at all. the traits are what's going to set the bar (no, not skillbar). please try and remember that when you can't seem to get that Perfect Synergy between trait lines and the actual traits. arenanet listens to the mobs too, not just the players.
My thing is that the skill system is this beautiful, wonderful thing. You can have any class do any role, just not all of them at the same time. You can have an elementalist on your front line in earth while a warrior is in the back dropping AoE with a bow. You can have that elementalist get in trouble and have some random guy use the one control skill on their bar to save them just in time for the warrior to switch to a mace/shield and take over. It's freeform, it's flexible, it's nontrinity, it's awesome.
And the best part is they could balance it extremely well, especially compared to GW1. There's far fewer skills, half are tied to weapon (making comparison from weapon to weapon easy) and no dual classes. There's actually only 870,000 ways to set up a skill bar for a warrior, compared to 152 TRILLION in GW1for one dual class combination (like warrior/monk).
If the skill system can be balanced to an extremely high level, then when they add traits there's nowhere for it to go but down. Think about it. 70 points, 5 trees, 75 traits buffing 10 attributes? The math is harder to compute, but I'm seeing 540 ways you can responsibly (5 at a time) allocate your 70 points. Then there's 580,000 minimum ways to allot 7 major traits after that. Multiply them together and you have 300 million ways or so you can figure out your traits. Multiply that by the 870k skill combinations and we're back up to 260 TRILLION. Holy crap this system will actually be harder to balance than GW1!!!!!! Am I really the only one who thinks this is a disaster?
The thing is that there's ways they could do customization which don't have to be like this. Minor general bonuses. No attributes. No trait synergies. No traits tied to specific weapons or skills. No trees.
The thing i don't understand is people claiming it will lock you down into a build where we have seen multiple video where people respec their trait as much as they want, they just have to do it out of combat. DAmn in competitive pvp you can respect free and have you builds stored. So really i don't understand what people are even talking about.
The only real problem i could see is that the master traits are so much better than the the accumulation of the lesser traits so that it force people to specialize their build into a single stat. But this is a tweaking and balance problem, it doesn't come from the system itself.
And last playing and tweaking your character stat is something as old as rpg. GW2 is one of the few mmo with a real system to support this rpg aspect yet people cry. If a lot of mmo have fucked up stat tweaking, its because they pretty much have no system behind, and were quickly made without though, exactly what some people ask for which is amazing to me. Stat on weapon and such are horrible system without flexibility, few games like L2 showed how bad they are, and how much unbalance they were. Why would you want a panoply of weapon to create your build when you can simply just use the GW2 interface? this make so little sense to me.
I think a lot of people are against stat system because in fact mmo made such bad work on this aspect, that brought so much imbalance people just don't want to see that again. I personally like the traits system, it think we at last have a complete system and a flexible system to support that. And honestly stat tweaking was always a very important aspect in any pvp game, it just bring a new level. Good pvper always tweaked their toon to support their playstyle, so i'm all for it. For the lazy people, yes they will go with some cookie cutter build, whatever really, if they prefer other to play and test the game for them, let them be really. But for the people that like to try out, i think such system is just great. And ye at last we will be able to try out all those build without making a new character each time, find those rare weapons and all those crap other mmos had to tweak your toon main stat...
The only real problem i could see is that the master traits are so much better than the the accumulation of the lesser traits so that it force people to specialize their build into a single stat. But this is a tweaking and balance problem, it doesn't come from the system itself.
Don't think thats really a problem. Because most builds can really benefit from a few major traits in each line, and often the choice would more likely be around, do i want to max this line and get the stats i build around but getting a third major and minor i don't really care that much about. I don't think the system makes 30/30/10 the most obvious stat distrubution that often.
the new trait system is amazing. not only are you a hammer guardian for example. but you also get to specialize into what kind of hammer guardian you will be. i dont see a better way of doing this. switching weapons and the other 5 abilities gives you flexibility. but your style defines your trait specialization. i hope ANet does not listen to the crybabies. with a few tweaks, traits will be awesome.
I'm opposed too. This new system just adds restrictions. If only A-Net would remove the extra 4 stats, and keep them on items instead, like gear and weapons.
no offense, but youre the perfect example of why i dont want ANet listening to fans (too much).
first of all, youre not happy with every class being able to fulfill every role? cuz thats what the trait system enables. you can play tanky, full dps, full support, or hybrid; you can literally specialize into doing random stuff like maximizing your guardian's spirit weapons.
secondly, keeping stats only on gear is a DISASTER. GW2 is only a little gear-dependent, and thats the entire philosophy behind it. learn to think outside of WoW. people are tired of chasing after certain drops that give you certain stats so you can be viable in a group.
I dont see how spending those points on air to improve the glyphs (even if its just one) is a waste, you get more crit and crit damage, and u make critical hits with ALL the attunements and weapons, you get more movement speed wich is always good, and you still have more points to spend on the other trait lines, i dont see the problem. I wonder why people thinks that spending points in one attunement (for the elementalist) will make you useless in the other 3 attunements, its just a bonus, nothing else.
I dont see how spending those points on air to improve the glyphs (even if its just one) is a waste, you get more crit and crit damage, and u make critical hits with ALL the attunements and weapons, you get more movement speed wich is always good, and you still have more points to spend on the other trait lines, i dont see the problem. I wonder why people thinks that spending points in one attunement (for the elementalist) will make you useless in the other 3 attunements, its just a bonus, nothing else.
In this particular one of my I don't even know how many objections to the system I have, I am NOT arguing that the points are a waste. Yes, those 20 points will always be helpful...somewhat. Nor do I EVER argue that you'll be useless in other attunements.
In that particular post I am only arguing that the trait system has two goals, permanence and customization, and doesn't really accomplish either.
What you're touching on is another issue, which is one of encounter balance. Mobs either need to be balanced against people with random trait builds, in which case players who optimize do extremely well, or they're balanced against people who optimized, in which case people with random trait builds will struggle. These mobs in the explorable mode dungeons are going to be extremely hard. Even if a trait system only makes an overall 10% difference in effectiveness, that could be the difference. A 5 minute fight might go 5:30. That's more time for things to go wrong.
And the thing is, according to Lewis B's article on the front page of GW2Guru, it's possible to make a HUGE difference with traits and gear. He says he could literally halve his damage compared to a balanced build. Or spec DPS so much that he became so fragile he died in 3 hits.
An example I've used in the past is one where you spec your traits to compliment you being a hammer warrior with points in Defense, but not in Arms. If you have to pick up a rifle for an encounter, you'll still be able to use it, but you'll be switching to whatever not quite useless traits there are in the defense tree, whereas if you went back and respecced to arms, you'd have precision (crit), malice (bleed damage), and 6 traits that look like "crit", "bleed", "crit", "bleed", "bleed on crit", and "rifle".
Seeing as how I've been through this already, I'm going to cynically say that this is probably where you're going to argue that those attributes from the defense tree will still be helpful, or you're going to say that this warrior specced himself for control and he's still going to be able to help his team, or that a warrior will always have truly helpful major traits, or that if he had points in tactics he could spec longbow instead, or that there's no situation where he should have to pick up a rifle if he doesn't want to.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I'm opposed too. This new system just adds restrictions. If only A-Net would remove the extra 4 stats, and keep them on items instead, like gear and weapons.
no offense, but youre the perfect example of why i dont want ANet listening to fans (too much).
first of all, youre not happy with every class being able to fulfill every role? cuz thats what the trait system enables. you can play tanky, full dps, full support, or hybrid; you can literally specialize into doing random stuff like maximizing your guardian's spirit weapons.
secondly, keeping stats only on gear is a DISASTER. GW2 is only a little gear-dependent, and thats the entire philosophy behind it. learn to think outside of WoW. people are tired of chasing after certain drops that give you certain stats so you can be viable in a group.
I completely disagree.
The SKILL system allows every player to fill every role but not at the same time due to a limited number of slots. You can take control, damage or support weapons. Or two different types. You can take 1 control utility, you can take 3. You can mix and match whatever you want which will compliment your dungeon group.
When I first read about attributes, I thought they were genius. You only have 4, and gear is itemized for generalization (equivalent rings have +40 to one stat, +33/+25 to two, or +25/+25/+25 to three). People are going to end up generalizing their stats and always having good amounts of toughness and vitality even if they prioritized power and/or precision. It would be a way for people to get more and more powerful gear, but still be able to play any role.
What the trait and attibute system does is limiting things. It's not minor customizations about your particular playstyle (like if you prefer support, you get a party regeneration effect on a skill, but if you prefer damage you get a might boon). It's turning out to be huge swings. Like Lewis B again (and he's played the game) saying that he could spec support to the point where he did half the damage of a balanced build and couldn't actually kill anyone 1v1.
Seriously, reread your argument. The trait system lets you play tanky. No. A shield lets you play tanky. The trait system lets you play tanky to the exclusion of other roles. Until you respec at the trainer.
If you completely removed traits and attributes from the game, the skill system would allow people to play whatever role they wanted at any time. Traits and gear can only make it worse (more complicated, more unbalanced, soft trinity) because they can't possibly make it better.
Don't get me wrong, I get that people want customization, but why isn't it small shifts to damage, control, or support which would still let people play any role? Or small boosts to power, crit, or conditions like arenanet wants? Why is it specific skills? Why are there hundreds of attribute points affected by this decision? Why is it trees?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
This system is absolutely gorgeous when you look at the traits (primarly the minor traits and points in the traits line) as the template you'll create to base a bundle of builds off of. In a nutshell... minor traits and points in line = template. Weapons, skills and major traits make the various builds you'll create using that template. So basically, I'm looking first at the minor traits I want to enhance how I'm intending to play... i.e. a character that's balanced, having skills that will be able to damage, control and support, while making full use of the illusion aspect that makes mesmers unique. It's going to be important to forget about the old style individual roles and to realize that what used to be roles are now all aspects of your skills. That being said, these are the minor traits and points allocated I see myself wanting initially (well, at 80...)
Domination - 15 points.
* Illusion of Vulnerability - Cause a 5 second vulnerability when you interrupt a foe.
* Confounding Suggestions - 50% chance to cause a 1 second stun whenever you daze a target.
Dueling - 15 points.
* Critical Infusion - Gain 1 second of vigor when you critically hit an enemy.
* Deceptive Evasion - Create a clone at your current position when you dodge.
Chaos - 10 points.
* Metaphysical Rejuvenation - Gain 5 seconds of regeneration when your health reaches 90% (30 second cooldown).
Inspiration - 15 points.
* Vengeful Images - Phantasms have retaliation.
* Phantasmal Healing - Phantasms grant regeneration to nearby allies.
Illusions - 15 points.
* Illusionists Celerity - 10% faster cooldown on all illusion summoning skills.
* Shattered Mind - Shredding illusions cause confusion.
Now to enhance this a bit and drive the focus of the template home, it's time to lay on the major traits for the first run of this build.
Major traits:
Dom: Crippling Dissipation - Clones cripple nearby foes when they are killed.
Duel: Deceptive Decoy - Cloak and leave a clone of yourself behind at 25% health.
Chaos: Debilitating Dissipation - Clones apply a random condition to nearby foes when they are killed.
Insp: Vigorous Revelation - Grants vigor to nearby allies when you shred your illusions.
Illusion: Phantasmal Haste - Your summoned phantasms have faster skill recharge.
Alrighty! Look at this taking shape... I've enhanced my supportive capabilities really, really nicely by having clones cause cripples and spread conditions when shattered, I'm adding a supportive aspect with phantasms granting a regen to allies when present, by granting vigor to everyone when I shatter, I'm increasing my ability to generate clones... this is really hitting on what I want to accomplish. NOW is the time to consider weapons and utility skills. So... what will suppliment this template and major trait selection?
Greatsword is definitely on the list, with a skill for clones and one for phantasms. In addition, the pushback skill will help to maintain a distance which, when coupled with detonating clones causing cripple, adds a nice degree of control. Of course, there are still good attack skills to boot. The Daze on Mind Stab plays into the Domination traits, and of course Spatial Surge is all about keeping your distance.
Utility skills
Well, ether feast for the main heal until I get to play with the mantra and deem it's worth, however with the intent on staying at range, can't rule out Mirror.
One thought is:
7) Mirror images - Summon two clones to attack your target
8) Decoy - Gain stealth and summon an illusion to attack your foe.
9) Blink - Teleport backwards
Mirror images are obvious, more clones! Decoy feeds off the Deceptive Evasion trait, which also stealths you and produces an illusion. If these hit back to back, with a Blink while stealthed, the confusion should be rather lovely to behold. Regardless, Blink is another distance mechanic which is nice.
Elite - Any of them seem interesting here. Time Warp can have a small army of clones attacking double time, Mass Invisibility adds to the confusion, and of course... you can turn someone into a bird.
Further looking also shows me that the Scepter/Focus weapons choice is a nice one to have as well... something I hadn't considered.
Look at the system differently. Consider the traits as your bulding blocks, your foundation. Consider how you want to play, and with that in mind develop from the ground up. Create your template, then overlay your builds on top of that. Your builds, your weapons/skills/major traits you can change on the fly, so exhaust those possibilities before bothering with a trainer.
I'm opposed too. This new system just adds restrictions. If only A-Net would remove the extra 4 stats, and keep them on items instead, like gear and weapons.
no offense, but youre the perfect example of why i dont want ANet listening to fans (too much).
first of all, youre not happy with every class being able to fulfill every role? cuz thats what the trait system enables. you can play tanky, full dps, full support, or hybrid; you can literally specialize into doing random stuff like maximizing your guardian's spirit weapons.
secondly, keeping stats only on gear is a DISASTER. GW2 is only a little gear-dependent, and thats the entire philosophy behind it. learn to think outside of WoW. people are tired of chasing after certain drops that give you certain stats so you can be viable in a group.
I completely disagree.
The SKILL system allows every player to fill every role but not at the same time due to a limited number of slots. You can take control, damage or support weapons. Or two different types. You can take 1 control utility, you can take 3. You can mix and match whatever you want which will compliment your dungeon group.
When I first read about attributes, I thought they were genius. You only have 4, and gear is itemized for generalization (equivalent rings have +40 to one stat, +33/+25 to two, or +25/+25/+25 to three). People are going to end up generalizing their stats and always having good amounts of toughness and vitality even if they prioritized power and/or precision. It would be a way for people to get more and more powerful gear, but still be able to play any role.
What the trait and attibute system does is limiting things. It's not minor customizations about your particular playstyle (like if you prefer support, you get a party regeneration effect on a skill, but if you prefer damage you get a might boon). It's turning out to be huge swings. Like Lewis B again (and he's played the game) saying that he could spec support to the point where he did half the damage of a balanced build and couldn't actually kill anyone 1v1.
Seriously, reread your argument. The trait system lets you play tanky. No. A shield lets you play tanky. The trait system lets you play tanky to the exclusion of other roles. Until you respec at the trainer.
If you completely removed traits and attributes from the game, the skill system would allow people to play whatever role they wanted at any time. Traits and gear can only make it worse (more complicated, more unbalanced, soft trinity) because they can't possibly make it better.
Don't get me wrong, I get that people want customization, but why isn't it small shifts to damage, control, or support which would still let people play any role? Or small boosts to power, crit, or conditions like arenanet wants? Why is it specific skills? Why are there hundreds of attribute points affected by this decision? Why is it trees?
Are you listening to yourself?
"Seriously, reread your argument. The trait system LETS YOU play tanky. No. A shield LETS YOU play tanky. The trait system LETS YOU play tanky to the exclusion of other roles. Until you respec at the trainer."
It lets you, YOU chose that, not the trait system, if anything you just proved that the trait system is very flexible and is not limiting at all.
If anyone can spec into what they desire to play then how is that limiting?
"Seriously, reread your argument. The trait system LETS YOU play tanky. No. A shield LETS YOU play tanky. The trait system LETS YOU play tanky to the exclusion of other roles. Until you respec at the trainer."
It lets you, YOU chose that, not the trait system, if anything you just proved that the trait system is very flexible and is not limiting at all.
If anyone can spec into what they desire to play then how is that limiting?
Can we clear out some of the "lets you"s because I was obviously quoting sonoggi for effect?
Why is my position so hard to understand?
The skill system lets you do whatever you want. If you need to play tanky for this encounter, you can pick up a shield and barriers and whatever other guardian control goodness there is. If you don't need full control, you can have a totally different second weapon, or take a random support utility skill. It's an entirely flexible system.
What the trait system does on top of that, is that you traited into making your shield better by going into the valor tree. By making your shield better, you didn't make "something else" better. You jacked up your toughness and (prowess?) by going into the valor tree.
If the trait system doesn't exist, as soon as you want to put down the shield and pick up a sword and a torch, you totally can. With the trait system, now you have points in Valor but not in Radiance. You now have to reallocate major traits (but still in the valor tree) which may no longer be as helpful. It has limited you compared to a skill only system. It certainly didn't make it MORE flexible.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Having looked at all the traits I think the system is very well planned. Gives some customisation to play style, but doesnt offer anything particularly overpowered or forcing any one role.
I think people are freaking out more than they need to, I dont think the traits are going to make that much of a difference compared to using the right ability at the right time (even if you arent traited into that skill). Saying that a warrior is going to be terrible at using a rifle unless they trait for it because its doing 5% less damage is a bit of an over-reaction.
Also, no matter how much you trait into it, you wont be a healer or a tank. People need to get over that.
Comments
I am so opposed to this trait system I would literally pay ArenaNet to change it if I could. I love ArenaNet and I've followed this game for a year and a half and I've been one of its biggest supporters here, but I think this is an area where they are getting it terribly wrong.
I think as implemented it ruins the flexibility and freeform dungeoneering their amazing skill system provides all for the sake of permanence and customization, yet doesn't actually accomplish those goals.
I've posted 75 times since Tuesday on GW2Guru listing all sorts of concerns, objections and flaws to this system, all seemingly falling on deaf ears. I don't know more I can do except for maybe to post something on youtube.
I would say "don't even get me started", but the idea of someone actually wanting to hear what I have to say is too appealing.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
And what we've been trying to tell you is, it accomplishes those goals just not in the way YOU want it to.
This is not a game.
Please read this, then let me know what you think. http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1183396&postcount=260
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I'm opposed too. This new system just adds restrictions. If only A-Net would remove the extra 4 stats, and keep them on items instead, like gear and weapons.
It's preferable to build a character around trait lines now, instead of a weapon set. This is the biggest reason i hate this new system.
Trust me dude, I've read your posts (hello, it's me Dirame) and the points you've tried to convey just keep hitting a brick wall in my brain. In that particular post, you say the trait system is leading you down a path but the truth is it was your decision to take that path in the first place. You could have done something different but you didn't and you're blaming it on the trait system, I find that hilarious.
Let me tell you how I've theorcrafted builds; first I start off with knowing exactly what I want to play around with, let's say a Guardian with lots of weapon summons. The first thing I do is look for any traits that enchance that, doesn't matter where it is, doesn't matter if it's in the vitality trait line or the power line, I grab what I need. After that, you can look at your attributes and then decide whether you're okay with how things have played out or whether you want to take advantage of the attributes you have. It's a decision YOU have to make, the trait system is not forcing you to do it. Yes, you would be silly not to take advantage of what your attributes have to offer BUT the trait system did not force you to make that decision. This is the point I think you and others keep clashing on.
This is not a game.
i am just clearing the confusion for myself. People do not like it cause the traits specify weapons and elements? So if you specced with Fire and Water traits for example. Then you are upset because someone may be better with Earth and Air at a particular part of the dungeon?
I was curious about the system, taken a gander at the calculator made up based on beta footage.
It's not a heavily restrictive system people. You have three basic traits that are set in stone, then three major traits you can choose from a list of several for each line. Does each one seem like it emphasizes a certain playstyle? Sure. Yet its also open enough with these traits to accomodate a few ways of playing. Water for Elementalists doesn't have to be healing focused, as there is damage traits in it as well. And just because that water elementalist has chosen healing-centric traits doesn't mean that any other Water Ele can't contribute with healing, as healing as a whole is group-oriented, not player.
It gives you options as how you want your character to play. Messing around with the warrior traits, I already knew I'd be a greatsword person, and at least two of the trait lines have something to support that focus. Looking through there's also traits I grabbed since I also am used to doing some minor group support on my Warrior in GW1, like the added boost to banners and the healing for shouts. Did I have to take those? No, and I didn't have to take the other traits if I didn't want to.
As for the inability to switch out in the open, so what? As it has been mentioned before, its not like you could freely do it anywhere in GW 1, and with the shift to an open world something had to be changed, otherwise you'd have people macroing up instant trait-changes up the arse for everything. Going into PvP? You better have a trait set to deal with the elementalist, and another for the mesmer, and another for the turret engineer and yet another for flamethrower engineer as well. We also haven't heard anything about maybe having a few "Dedicated" trait setups we could register, much like how we have dual talents in World of Warcraft.
Not to mention this is still in Beta. Everything is still subject to change, and if ArenaNet feels like they need to change something I'm pretty darn sure they'll do it, as they have been doing for quite a while now (stat systems, the condition/boons, energy/dodge mechanics, yadda yadda).
also, arenanet's primary means of maintaining balance in gw2 will be through the trait system, not the skills. they may move a skill around between main and off hand weapon slots, but the skills will not be changing much if at all. the traits are what's going to set the bar (no, not skillbar). please try and remember that when you can't seem to get that Perfect Synergy between trait lines and the actual traits. arenanet listens to the mobs too, not just the players.
I see the wailing and gnashing of teeth continues.
So, after spending several hours playing with the trait system and developing several Mesmer builds (that I think are viable as it stands now), one thing I noticed was that it was hard to pigeonhole yourself too much into any "role", contrary to the complaints. Every build seemed to be something that worked under a wide range of battle conditions and didn't look to me like something that I was going to have to constantly be changing once it was set. I think if people are feeling the need to constantly rebuild their characters, it will be because they haven't hit something that supports their playstyle yet. That, or they are hopelessly indecisive.
I was concerned about how little customization was apparent before the trait system was announced. Now we have something we can really sink our teeth into and really build our characters with, and people are grabbing torches and pitchforks. Go figure.
i like complicated trees in an mmorpg. the more complicated the better. sure, they leave themselves open to cookie cutters and SEEM to have minimal choices, but sometimes you can go outside of the box. i remember playing a sub rogue in wow for years, despite being told i was gimping my rogue. was a time you couldn't find a sub rogue. but my play style suited it and i found myself oftentimes doing more damage than other specs simply because of my play style.
you might FEEL compelled to choose certain skills and if you don't you'll gimp, but if there really is a wide variety you might find in some cases it doesn't matter so long as you're choosing traits (in this case) which suit how you play.
that's why it's a choice.
i find it sad that many people look up cookie cutter guides. guides fail to take in the individual's skill and play style which determine which choices to make.
for me: i want a trait system which requires an encyclopedia to use. a whole wiki just for the traits. then maybe we'll see a lot more diversity.
Maybe we have to agree to disagree, because even in responding to this I have to touch on a bunch of different arguements I've also made.
edit: Actually, I just deleted the arguements I made. I have no desire to rehash this here. If people want to see all my attempts at criticizing the trait system, they can just follow the link above and check my post history. If people want to see the counterarguments, just scroll down after each post, lol. I don't think I've made any converts. The next post about balancing is new material though. That one can stay.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
My thing is that the skill system is this beautiful, wonderful thing. You can have any class do any role, just not all of them at the same time. You can have an elementalist on your front line in earth while a warrior is in the back dropping AoE with a bow. You can have that elementalist get in trouble and have some random guy use the one control skill on their bar to save them just in time for the warrior to switch to a mace/shield and take over. It's freeform, it's flexible, it's nontrinity, it's awesome.
And the best part is they could balance it extremely well, especially compared to GW1. There's far fewer skills, half are tied to weapon (making comparison from weapon to weapon easy) and no dual classes. There's actually only 870,000 ways to set up a skill bar for a warrior, compared to 152 TRILLION in GW1 for one dual class combination (like warrior/monk).
If the skill system can be balanced to an extremely high level, then when they add traits there's nowhere for it to go but down. Think about it. 70 points, 5 trees, 75 traits buffing 10 attributes? The math is harder to compute, but I'm seeing 540 ways you can responsibly (5 at a time) allocate your 70 points. Then there's 580,000 minimum ways to allot 7 major traits after that. Multiply them together and you have 300 million ways or so you can figure out your traits. Multiply that by the 870k skill combinations and we're back up to 260 TRILLION. Holy crap this system will actually be harder to balance than GW1!!!!!! Am I really the only one who thinks this is a disaster?
The thing is that there's ways they could do customization which don't have to be like this. Minor general bonuses. No attributes. No trait synergies. No traits tied to specific weapons or skills. No trees.
edit: when I computed the 870,000, I knew about fewer skills. My estimate is now 1.3 million. This brings the grand total up from 260 trillion to 390 trillion.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I see what you're saying, but your problem seems to be more with specific traits than the system as a whole. The first thing I thought when I looked at the traits on the wiki was that they were clearly not balanced. Most of them look like placeholders.
It was the same thing as when I saw the original list of attributes. It had similar balance problems, but it was clearly going to change.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
you should stop that. you'll go blind.
The thing i don't understand is people claiming it will lock you down into a build where we have seen multiple video where people respec their trait as much as they want, they just have to do it out of combat. DAmn in competitive pvp you can respect free and have you builds stored. So really i don't understand what people are even talking about.
Read the respec in the article: http://www.arena.net/blog/play-your-way-jon-peters-on-traits-and-attributes
The only real problem i could see is that the master traits are so much better than the the accumulation of the lesser traits so that it force people to specialize their build into a single stat. But this is a tweaking and balance problem, it doesn't come from the system itself.
And last playing and tweaking your character stat is something as old as rpg. GW2 is one of the few mmo with a real system to support this rpg aspect yet people cry. If a lot of mmo have fucked up stat tweaking, its because they pretty much have no system behind, and were quickly made without though, exactly what some people ask for which is amazing to me. Stat on weapon and such are horrible system without flexibility, few games like L2 showed how bad they are, and how much unbalance they were. Why would you want a panoply of weapon to create your build when you can simply just use the GW2 interface? this make so little sense to me.
I think a lot of people are against stat system because in fact mmo made such bad work on this aspect, that brought so much imbalance people just don't want to see that again. I personally like the traits system, it think we at last have a complete system and a flexible system to support that. And honestly stat tweaking was always a very important aspect in any pvp game, it just bring a new level. Good pvper always tweaked their toon to support their playstyle, so i'm all for it. For the lazy people, yes they will go with some cookie cutter build, whatever really, if they prefer other to play and test the game for them, let them be really. But for the people that like to try out, i think such system is just great. And ye at last we will be able to try out all those build without making a new character each time, find those rare weapons and all those crap other mmos had to tweak your toon main stat...
Don't think thats really a problem. Because most builds can really benefit from a few major traits in each line, and often the choice would more likely be around, do i want to max this line and get the stats i build around but getting a third major and minor i don't really care that much about. I don't think the system makes 30/30/10 the most obvious stat distrubution that often.
the new trait system is amazing. not only are you a hammer guardian for example. but you also get to specialize into what kind of hammer guardian you will be. i dont see a better way of doing this. switching weapons and the other 5 abilities gives you flexibility. but your style defines your trait specialization. i hope ANet does not listen to the crybabies. with a few tweaks, traits will be awesome.
no offense, but youre the perfect example of why i dont want ANet listening to fans (too much).
first of all, youre not happy with every class being able to fulfill every role? cuz thats what the trait system enables. you can play tanky, full dps, full support, or hybrid; you can literally specialize into doing random stuff like maximizing your guardian's spirit weapons.
secondly, keeping stats only on gear is a DISASTER. GW2 is only a little gear-dependent, and thats the entire philosophy behind it. learn to think outside of WoW. people are tired of chasing after certain drops that give you certain stats so you can be viable in a group.
I dont see how spending those points on air to improve the glyphs (even if its just one) is a waste, you get more crit and crit damage, and u make critical hits with ALL the attunements and weapons, you get more movement speed wich is always good, and you still have more points to spend on the other trait lines, i dont see the problem. I wonder why people thinks that spending points in one attunement (for the elementalist) will make you useless in the other 3 attunements, its just a bonus, nothing else.
In this particular one of my I don't even know how many objections to the system I have, I am NOT arguing that the points are a waste. Yes, those 20 points will always be helpful...somewhat. Nor do I EVER argue that you'll be useless in other attunements.
In that particular post I am only arguing that the trait system has two goals, permanence and customization, and doesn't really accomplish either.
What you're touching on is another issue, which is one of encounter balance. Mobs either need to be balanced against people with random trait builds, in which case players who optimize do extremely well, or they're balanced against people who optimized, in which case people with random trait builds will struggle. These mobs in the explorable mode dungeons are going to be extremely hard. Even if a trait system only makes an overall 10% difference in effectiveness, that could be the difference. A 5 minute fight might go 5:30. That's more time for things to go wrong.
And the thing is, according to Lewis B's article on the front page of GW2Guru, it's possible to make a HUGE difference with traits and gear. He says he could literally halve his damage compared to a balanced build. Or spec DPS so much that he became so fragile he died in 3 hits.
An example I've used in the past is one where you spec your traits to compliment you being a hammer warrior with points in Defense, but not in Arms. If you have to pick up a rifle for an encounter, you'll still be able to use it, but you'll be switching to whatever not quite useless traits there are in the defense tree, whereas if you went back and respecced to arms, you'd have precision (crit), malice (bleed damage), and 6 traits that look like "crit", "bleed", "crit", "bleed", "bleed on crit", and "rifle".
Seeing as how I've been through this already, I'm going to cynically say that this is probably where you're going to argue that those attributes from the defense tree will still be helpful, or you're going to say that this warrior specced himself for control and he's still going to be able to help his team, or that a warrior will always have truly helpful major traits, or that if he had points in tactics he could spec longbow instead, or that there's no situation where he should have to pick up a rifle if he doesn't want to.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I completely disagree.
The SKILL system allows every player to fill every role but not at the same time due to a limited number of slots. You can take control, damage or support weapons. Or two different types. You can take 1 control utility, you can take 3. You can mix and match whatever you want which will compliment your dungeon group.
When I first read about attributes, I thought they were genius. You only have 4, and gear is itemized for generalization (equivalent rings have +40 to one stat, +33/+25 to two, or +25/+25/+25 to three). People are going to end up generalizing their stats and always having good amounts of toughness and vitality even if they prioritized power and/or precision. It would be a way for people to get more and more powerful gear, but still be able to play any role.
What the trait and attibute system does is limiting things. It's not minor customizations about your particular playstyle (like if you prefer support, you get a party regeneration effect on a skill, but if you prefer damage you get a might boon). It's turning out to be huge swings. Like Lewis B again (and he's played the game) saying that he could spec support to the point where he did half the damage of a balanced build and couldn't actually kill anyone 1v1.
Seriously, reread your argument. The trait system lets you play tanky. No. A shield lets you play tanky. The trait system lets you play tanky to the exclusion of other roles. Until you respec at the trainer.
If you completely removed traits and attributes from the game, the skill system would allow people to play whatever role they wanted at any time. Traits and gear can only make it worse (more complicated, more unbalanced, soft trinity) because they can't possibly make it better.
Don't get me wrong, I get that people want customization, but why isn't it small shifts to damage, control, or support which would still let people play any role? Or small boosts to power, crit, or conditions like arenanet wants? Why is it specific skills? Why are there hundreds of attribute points affected by this decision? Why is it trees?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
This system is absolutely gorgeous when you look at the traits (primarly the minor traits and points in the traits line) as the template you'll create to base a bundle of builds off of. In a nutshell... minor traits and points in line = template. Weapons, skills and major traits make the various builds you'll create using that template. So basically, I'm looking first at the minor traits I want to enhance how I'm intending to play... i.e. a character that's balanced, having skills that will be able to damage, control and support, while making full use of the illusion aspect that makes mesmers unique. It's going to be important to forget about the old style individual roles and to realize that what used to be roles are now all aspects of your skills. That being said, these are the minor traits and points allocated I see myself wanting initially (well, at 80...)
Domination - 15 points.
* Illusion of Vulnerability - Cause a 5 second vulnerability when you interrupt a foe.
* Confounding Suggestions - 50% chance to cause a 1 second stun whenever you daze a target.
Dueling - 15 points.
* Critical Infusion - Gain 1 second of vigor when you critically hit an enemy.
* Deceptive Evasion - Create a clone at your current position when you dodge.
Chaos - 10 points.
* Metaphysical Rejuvenation - Gain 5 seconds of regeneration when your health reaches 90% (30 second cooldown).
Inspiration - 15 points.
* Vengeful Images - Phantasms have retaliation.
* Phantasmal Healing - Phantasms grant regeneration to nearby allies.
Illusions - 15 points.
* Illusionists Celerity - 10% faster cooldown on all illusion summoning skills.
* Shattered Mind - Shredding illusions cause confusion.
Now to enhance this a bit and drive the focus of the template home, it's time to lay on the major traits for the first run of this build.
Major traits:
Dom: Crippling Dissipation - Clones cripple nearby foes when they are killed.
Duel: Deceptive Decoy - Cloak and leave a clone of yourself behind at 25% health.
Chaos: Debilitating Dissipation - Clones apply a random condition to nearby foes when they are killed.
Insp: Vigorous Revelation - Grants vigor to nearby allies when you shred your illusions.
Illusion: Phantasmal Haste - Your summoned phantasms have faster skill recharge.
Alrighty! Look at this taking shape... I've enhanced my supportive capabilities really, really nicely by having clones cause cripples and spread conditions when shattered, I'm adding a supportive aspect with phantasms granting a regen to allies when present, by granting vigor to everyone when I shatter, I'm increasing my ability to generate clones... this is really hitting on what I want to accomplish. NOW is the time to consider weapons and utility skills. So... what will suppliment this template and major trait selection?
Greatsword is definitely on the list, with a skill for clones and one for phantasms. In addition, the pushback skill will help to maintain a distance which, when coupled with detonating clones causing cripple, adds a nice degree of control. Of course, there are still good attack skills to boot. The Daze on Mind Stab plays into the Domination traits, and of course Spatial Surge is all about keeping your distance.
Utility skills
Well, ether feast for the main heal until I get to play with the mantra and deem it's worth, however with the intent on staying at range, can't rule out Mirror.
One thought is:
7) Mirror images - Summon two clones to attack your target
8) Decoy - Gain stealth and summon an illusion to attack your foe.
9) Blink - Teleport backwards
Mirror images are obvious, more clones! Decoy feeds off the Deceptive Evasion trait, which also stealths you and produces an illusion. If these hit back to back, with a Blink while stealthed, the confusion should be rather lovely to behold. Regardless, Blink is another distance mechanic which is nice.
Elite - Any of them seem interesting here. Time Warp can have a small army of clones attacking double time, Mass Invisibility adds to the confusion, and of course... you can turn someone into a bird.
Further looking also shows me that the Scepter/Focus weapons choice is a nice one to have as well... something I hadn't considered.
Look at the system differently. Consider the traits as your bulding blocks, your foundation. Consider how you want to play, and with that in mind develop from the ground up. Create your template, then overlay your builds on top of that. Your builds, your weapons/skills/major traits you can change on the fly, so exhaust those possibilities before bothering with a trainer.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Are you listening to yourself?
"Seriously, reread your argument. The trait system LETS YOU play tanky. No. A shield LETS YOU play tanky. The trait system LETS YOU play tanky to the exclusion of other roles. Until you respec at the trainer."
It lets you, YOU chose that, not the trait system, if anything you just proved that the trait system is very flexible and is not limiting at all.
If anyone can spec into what they desire to play then how is that limiting?
This is not a game.
Can we clear out some of the "lets you"s because I was obviously quoting sonoggi for effect?
Why is my position so hard to understand?
The skill system lets you do whatever you want. If you need to play tanky for this encounter, you can pick up a shield and barriers and whatever other guardian control goodness there is. If you don't need full control, you can have a totally different second weapon, or take a random support utility skill. It's an entirely flexible system.
What the trait system does on top of that, is that you traited into making your shield better by going into the valor tree. By making your shield better, you didn't make "something else" better. You jacked up your toughness and (prowess?) by going into the valor tree.
If the trait system doesn't exist, as soon as you want to put down the shield and pick up a sword and a torch, you totally can. With the trait system, now you have points in Valor but not in Radiance. You now have to reallocate major traits (but still in the valor tree) which may no longer be as helpful. It has limited you compared to a skill only system. It certainly didn't make it MORE flexible.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Having looked at all the traits I think the system is very well planned. Gives some customisation to play style, but doesnt offer anything particularly overpowered or forcing any one role.
I think people are freaking out more than they need to, I dont think the traits are going to make that much of a difference compared to using the right ability at the right time (even if you arent traited into that skill). Saying that a warrior is going to be terrible at using a rifle unless they trait for it because its doing 5% less damage is a bit of an over-reaction.
Also, no matter how much you trait into it, you wont be a healer or a tank. People need to get over that.