The first response to this was "EQ lite I mean WoW"....
Are you friggin serious? Two TOTALLY different games. What are you people, drones? WoW has NOTHING in common with EQ. Other than the genre. So many irritating things spelled out by irritating wannabe "old school" gamers around here. If you don't know or don't remember...shuddup!!
What is funny is based on inflation WoW is no more successful then EQ ever was and SW:TOR didnt even come close. The cost compared to the income on these games is almost identically proportional when comparing EQ and WoW. Not to mention EQ at its best had between 500k and 750k active subscribers. Today they are still in teh 150k range and turning a profit. Blizzard had to lay off 600 workers because their "PAYING" subscribers dropped from around 2.5 million to 1.2 million ove rhte last 2 years. The vast majority of their playerbase is in China and doesnt pay anything to play the game. You cannot just listen to teh Hype Blizzard spews without investing time to look into the actual numbers.
The solid truth is there are more then twice as many active MMORPG players today as there was 2 years ago. In another year that number will likely double with games like GW2 and DUST514 drawing on the conscole crowd. We are just now seeing a turning point where some studios are realizing that MMORPGs can be lucrative if only they can keep from trying to follow a 13 year old model that was introduced with Everquest and copied by WoW.
The more innovation we see from these companies the larger the industry is likely to grow plain and simple.
What is funny is based on inflation WoW is no more successful then EQ ever was and SW:TOR didnt even come close. The cost compared to the income on these games is almost identically proportional when comparing EQ and WoW. Not to mention EQ at its best had between 500k and 750k active subscribers. Today they are still in teh 150k range and turning a profit. Blizzard had to lay off 600 workers because their "PAYING" subscribers dropped from around 2.5 million to 1.2 million ove rhte last 2 years. The vast majority of their playerbase is in China and doesnt pay anything to play the game. You cannot just listen to teh Hype Blizzard spews without investing time to look into the actual numbers.
The solid truth is there are more then twice as many active MMORPG players today as there was 2 years ago. In another year that number will likely double with games like GW2 and DUST514 drawing on the conscole crowd. We are just now seeing a turning point where some studios are realizing that MMORPGs can be lucrative if only they can keep from trying to follow a 13 year old model that was introduced with Everquest and copied by WoW.
The more innovation we see from these companies the larger the industry is likely to grow plain and simple.
Eq barely topped 450k, but your point is taken and I would actually be very interested to see some data regarding this.
On a percentage basis compare the costs of games today and the revenues of games today, then compare both with the number of players in the game and in the market.
China does pay for hte game, they pay by the hour, and they need to pay something within the last 30 days or they are not considered subsribers, and ASIA (not just china) only ever had 6-7 million the rest was in rest of the world Europe, NA, SA, Australia...
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
What is funny is based on inflation WoW is no more successful then EQ ever was and SW:TOR didnt even come close. The cost compared to the income on these games is almost identically proportional when comparing EQ and WoW. Not to mention EQ at its best had between 500k and 750k active subscribers. Today they are still in teh 150k range and turning a profit. Blizzard had to lay off 600 workers because their "PAYING" subscribers dropped from around 2.5 million to 1.2 million ove rhte last 2 years. The vast majority of their playerbase is in China and doesnt pay anything to play the game. You cannot just listen to teh Hype Blizzard spews without investing time to look into the actual numbers.
The solid truth is there are more then twice as many active MMORPG players today as there was 2 years ago. In another year that number will likely double with games like GW2 and DUST514 drawing on the conscole crowd. We are just now seeing a turning point where some studios are realizing that MMORPGs can be lucrative if only they can keep from trying to follow a 13 year old model that was introduced with Everquest and copied by WoW.
The more innovation we see from these companies the larger the industry is likely to grow plain and simple.
Eq barely topped 450k, but your point is taken and I would actually be very interested to see some data regarding this.
On a percentage basis compare the costs of games today and the revenues of games today, then compare both with the number of players in the game and in the market.
China does pay for hte game, they pay by the hour, and they need to pay something within the last 30 days or they are not considered subsribers, and ASIA (not just china) only ever had 6-7 million the rest was in rest of the world Europe, NA, SA, Australia...
What do we expect from the devs? Hollywood hasn't come up with a new idea in 50 years. It's just remake after remake of old remakes. I don't knwo why we think that these yes men and lap dogs would be able to do anythign different.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
"total spending on MMO games this year rose by 30% compared to last year. Around 47.5 million Americans play MMOs and although 90% of these play free-to-play games"
"Our data clearly shows that the market for MMO games is growing in terms of number of gamers, share of people paying and money spent."
"In 2011, total US MMO games consumer spend will grow 3% compared to 2011 from $2.5bn to $2.6bn."
You can claim that the growth is slowing down.
But saying the MMO market is in decline .. is just plain WRONG, and not supported by data.
It's not about the numbers kiddo, its about the quality of the games being released.
PC gaming is hitting an all time high, but most of those numbers are coming from flash games and Farmville. Are you going to try to say that just because the numbers are big we're in a golden age of gaming?
Says you? People who have no evidence to support their position rely on fluff stuff like "quality" which is subjective.
Look at modern MMOs on metacritics and tell me how they flare with the critics. If you meaning of "quality" is what you like .. sorry .. that has no credibility.
Because i can do the same. Modern MMO has the best quality, more content, more convenient features, better graphics, more fun for everyone. There is no decline in quality either.
Oh, bringing review scores into it. Yeah, SWTOR was totally worthy of 9s? <rolls eyes>
"total spending on MMO games this year rose by 30% compared to last year. Around 47.5 million Americans play MMOs and although 90% of these play free-to-play games"
"Our data clearly shows that the market for MMO games is growing in terms of number of gamers, share of people paying and money spent."
"In 2011, total US MMO games consumer spend will grow 3% compared to 2011 from $2.5bn to $2.6bn."
You can claim that the growth is slowing down.
But saying the MMO market is in decline .. is just plain WRONG, and not supported by data.
It's not about the numbers kiddo, its about the quality of the games being released.
PC gaming is hitting an all time high, but most of those numbers are coming from flash games and Farmville. Are you going to try to say that just because the numbers are big we're in a golden age of gaming?
Says you? People who have no evidence to support their position rely on fluff stuff like "quality" which is subjective.
Look at modern MMOs on metacritics and tell me how they flare with the critics. If you meaning of "quality" is what you like .. sorry .. that has no credibility.
Because i can do the same. Modern MMO has the best quality, more content, more convenient features, better graphics, more fun for everyone. There is no decline in quality either.
Oh, bringing review scores into it. Yeah, SWTOR was totally worthy of 9s?
I don't even know why you try to argue with these casual players... Some people just don't get it.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
"total spending on MMO games this year rose by 30% compared to last year. Around 47.5 million Americans play MMOs and although 90% of these play free-to-play games"
"Our data clearly shows that the market for MMO games is growing in terms of number of gamers, share of people paying and money spent."
"In 2011, total US MMO games consumer spend will grow 3% compared to 2011 from $2.5bn to $2.6bn."
You can claim that the growth is slowing down.
But saying the MMO market is in decline .. is just plain WRONG, and not supported by data.
It's not about the numbers kiddo, its about the quality of the games being released.
PC gaming is hitting an all time high, but most of those numbers are coming from flash games and Farmville. Are you going to try to say that just because the numbers are big we're in a golden age of gaming?
Says you? People who have no evidence to support their position rely on fluff stuff like "quality" which is subjective.
Look at modern MMOs on metacritics and tell me how they flare with the critics. If you meaning of "quality" is what you like .. sorry .. that has no credibility.
Because i can do the same. Modern MMO has the best quality, more content, more convenient features, better graphics, more fun for everyone. There is no decline in quality either.
Oh, bringing review scores into it. Yeah, SWTOR was totally worthy of 9s?
I don't even know why you try to argue with these casual players... Some people just don't get it.
Oh we get it, but we don't agree. And other than Pvp I had no problem with swtor, it wasn't what I was looking for but it was fun and enjoyable. There were no bugs or issues that impacted my gameplay.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Skyrim is more of an MMO than the majority of supposed MMO's that've come out in the last decade.
Yeah, it has quest centric gameplay, instance travel, simple crafting .. very much in line with modern MMOs.
That's a "your mileage may vary" statement.
I would say it has quest centric game play because the players who play it can't imagine playing it in any other way.
For myself, I haven't done most of the quests and I'm almost vll 61 and just a few quest lines into the main game.
Problem is, some players can't take their own game play in hand and steer themselves to a more enjoyable experience. Instead they dive in, follow each quest that is presented to them (do they ever say no to a quest?) and then wonder where people are coming up with their hours played.
I"m slightly over 220 hours played and can imagine doubling that at the end of it all.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Skyrim is more of an MMO than the majority of supposed MMO's that've come out in the last decade.
Yeah, it has quest centric gameplay, instance travel, simple crafting .. very much in line with modern MMOs.
That's a "your mileage may vary" statement.
I would say it has quest centric game play because the players who play it can't imagine playing it in any other way.
For myself, I haven't done most of the quests and I'm almost vll 61 and just a few quest lines into the main game.
Problem is, some players can't take their own game play in hand and steer themselves to a more enjoyable experience. Instead they dive in, follow each quest that is presented to them (do they ever say no to a quest?) and then wonder where people are coming up with their hours played.
I"m slightly over 220 hours played and can imagine doubling that at the end of it all.
I totally agree Sovrath, some people can't seem to direct their own gameplay. They feel they have to follow the quests or they have to camp grind or whatever it is and then state there is no alternative, well there are many alternatives you are just choosing not to see/do them.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Why is it that everytime a person points out that content is too easy the casuals jump in with the accusation that difficult content is only to measure your Epeen? Well if that's the case isn't playing easy content just lubing up your Evag?
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Why is it that everytime a person points out that content is too easy the casuals jump in with the accusation that difficult content is only to measure your Epeen? Well if that's the case isn't playing easy content just lubing up your Evag?
We don't. Actually I don't think I've heard anyone say that. What we've consistently said is there is hard content there. Whether you choose to do it or not is your choice.
It's all about choice.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Why is it that everytime a person points out that content is too easy the casuals jump in with the accusation that difficult content is only to measure your Epeen? Well if that's the case isn't playing easy content just lubing up your Evag?
We don't. Actually I don't think I've heard anyone say that. What we've consistently said is there is hard content there. Whether you choose to do it or not is your choice.
It's all about choice.
I do think noone said that it is not there.
What is wrong is that this content is locked in instances only.
I want to have some hard content in open world as I am sick and tired of instances.
------------
Doing quest overlevel is NOT an answer. For many reasons.
Why is it that everytime a person points out that content is too easy the casuals jump in with the accusation that difficult content is only to measure your Epeen? Well if that's the case isn't playing easy content just lubing up your Evag?
We don't. Actually I don't think I've heard anyone say that. What we've consistently said is there is hard content there. Whether you choose to do it or not is your choice.
It's all about choice.
I do think noone said that it is not there.
What is wrong is that this content is locked in instances only.
I want to have some hard content in open world as I am sick and tired of instances.
------------
Doing quest overlevel is NOT an answer. For many reasons.
Thats fair and not really arguable in many games. However there are still many games with hard content not in an instance.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Why is it that everytime a person points out that content is too easy the casuals jump in with the accusation that difficult content is only to measure your Epeen? Well if that's the case isn't playing easy content just lubing up your Evag?
We don't. Actually I don't think I've heard anyone say that. What we've consistently said is there is hard content there. Whether you choose to do it or not is your choice.
It's all about choice.
What makes it hard? The pattern you have to memorize? Is it too complex? It's not hard. You get no death penaly, and you have zero risk. If you fail you try again until it's defeated. then you get your entitlement armor piece.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Why is it that everytime a person points out that content is too easy the casuals jump in with the accusation that difficult content is only to measure your Epeen? Well if that's the case isn't playing easy content just lubing up your Evag?
We don't. Actually I don't think I've heard anyone say that. What we've consistently said is there is hard content there. Whether you choose to do it or not is your choice.
It's all about choice.
What makes it hard? The pattern you have to memorize? Is it too complex? It's not hard. You get no death penaly, and you have zero risk. If you fail you try again until it's defeated. then you get your entitlement armor piece.
The same things that has ever made games harder - dmg, hp, patterns, decision... same as ever.
Death penalty has never ever ever made an encounter hard. There may be an argument that it was hard to recover from a dp, but it didn't make what happened before the death hard.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
One thing that is often overlooked and what I think really set WoW apart from UO / EQ was the customer service aspect from Blizzard right off the bat. They did things right.
Bug fixes were accomplished in a reasonable and timely manner (especially compared to the competition). Speaking from experience the UO team was an absolute pile of ****. Brutal at fixing bugs. Took 6months - 2 years to accomplish basic game changes. It would frequently lead to lashing out from the playerbase to a lot of the community relations guys. It was simply unacceptable.
Blizzard on the otherhand produced a much more polished product - with a level of customer service unseen by any of the competitors.
Why is it that everytime a person points out that content is too easy the casuals jump in with the accusation that difficult content is only to measure your Epeen? Well if that's the case isn't playing easy content just lubing up your Evag?
We don't. Actually I don't think I've heard anyone say that. What we've consistently said is there is hard content there. Whether you choose to do it or not is your choice.
It's all about choice.
What makes it hard? The pattern you have to memorize? Is it too complex? It's not hard. You get no death penaly, and you have zero risk. If you fail you try again until it's defeated. then you get your entitlement armor piece.
The boss does the exact same thing with or without death penalty. Because you did it with DP gives you the right to claim it was hard?
Why is it that everytime a person points out that content is too easy the casuals jump in with the accusation that difficult content is only to measure your Epeen? Well if that's the case isn't playing easy content just lubing up your Evag?
We don't. Actually I don't think I've heard anyone say that. What we've consistently said is there is hard content there. Whether you choose to do it or not is your choice.
It's all about choice.
What makes it hard? The pattern you have to memorize? Is it too complex? It's not hard. You get no death penaly, and you have zero risk. If you fail you try again until it's defeated. then you get your entitlement armor piece.
The boss does the exact same thing with or without death penalty. Because you did it with DP gives you the right to claim it was hard?
Death penalties ARE NOT ABOUT THE INVIDIVUAL ENCOUNTER. It makes the game hard if you have a death penalty.
I suppose technically you could argue that only permadeath actually makes a game harder. Other deaths just extend it.
I agree completely. I don't know why nobody tries something new. Every game that comes out just dissapoints me. I log in, make my character, and begin my journey. But the journey is always the same. Kill this 5 of this monster, collect 10 of this, talk to him. Oh look I have a new spell now, thats great, well not really because im bored of the new spell in 5 minutes anyway.
I tried to play tera beta this weekend and just gave up in about 2 hours. Yes the graphics are pretty and the combat system is cool (i guess..) but at the end of the day im going to get bored of it. Quest my way up to the max level doing the same old boring quests, only to realize that the end game content is the same as every other mmo.
I guess ill be awaiting PSO2/GW2/D3/. All those games at least do something different than the standard "mmo" . All the prequels to those games gave me hours of entertainment, lets just hope they don't sell out to all these new school gamers and ruin the game (but i dont have too much faith with the way things are going..)
Comments
The first response to this was "EQ lite I mean WoW"....
Are you friggin serious? Two TOTALLY different games. What are you people, drones? WoW has NOTHING in common with EQ. Other than the genre. So many irritating things spelled out by irritating wannabe "old school" gamers around here. If you don't know or don't remember...shuddup!!
What is funny is based on inflation WoW is no more successful then EQ ever was and SW:TOR didnt even come close. The cost compared to the income on these games is almost identically proportional when comparing EQ and WoW. Not to mention EQ at its best had between 500k and 750k active subscribers. Today they are still in teh 150k range and turning a profit. Blizzard had to lay off 600 workers because their "PAYING" subscribers dropped from around 2.5 million to 1.2 million ove rhte last 2 years. The vast majority of their playerbase is in China and doesnt pay anything to play the game. You cannot just listen to teh Hype Blizzard spews without investing time to look into the actual numbers.
The solid truth is there are more then twice as many active MMORPG players today as there was 2 years ago. In another year that number will likely double with games like GW2 and DUST514 drawing on the conscole crowd. We are just now seeing a turning point where some studios are realizing that MMORPGs can be lucrative if only they can keep from trying to follow a 13 year old model that was introduced with Everquest and copied by WoW.
The more innovation we see from these companies the larger the industry is likely to grow plain and simple.
Eq barely topped 450k, but your point is taken and I would actually be very interested to see some data regarding this.
On a percentage basis compare the costs of games today and the revenues of games today, then compare both with the number of players in the game and in the market.
China does pay for hte game, they pay by the hour, and they need to pay something within the last 30 days or they are not considered subsribers, and ASIA (not just china) only ever had 6-7 million the rest was in rest of the world Europe, NA, SA, Australia...
What do we expect from the devs? Hollywood hasn't come up with a new idea in 50 years. It's just remake after remake of old remakes. I don't knwo why we think that these yes men and lap dogs would be able to do anythign different.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Oh, bringing review scores into it. Yeah, SWTOR was totally worthy of 9s? <rolls eyes>
I don't even know why you try to argue with these casual players... Some people just don't get it.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Oh we get it, but we don't agree. And other than Pvp I had no problem with swtor, it wasn't what I was looking for but it was fun and enjoyable. There were no bugs or issues that impacted my gameplay.
Skyrim is more of an MMO than the majority of supposed MMO's that've come out in the last decade.
Yeah, it has quest centric gameplay, instance travel, simple crafting .. very much in line with modern MMOs.
That's a "your mileage may vary" statement.
I would say it has quest centric game play because the players who play it can't imagine playing it in any other way.
For myself, I haven't done most of the quests and I'm almost vll 61 and just a few quest lines into the main game.
Problem is, some players can't take their own game play in hand and steer themselves to a more enjoyable experience. Instead they dive in, follow each quest that is presented to them (do they ever say no to a quest?) and then wonder where people are coming up with their hours played.
I"m slightly over 220 hours played and can imagine doubling that at the end of it all.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I totally agree Sovrath, some people can't seem to direct their own gameplay. They feel they have to follow the quests or they have to camp grind or whatever it is and then state there is no alternative, well there are many alternatives you are just choosing not to see/do them.
Why is it that everytime a person points out that content is too easy the casuals jump in with the accusation that difficult content is only to measure your Epeen? Well if that's the case isn't playing easy content just lubing up your Evag?
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
We don't. Actually I don't think I've heard anyone say that. What we've consistently said is there is hard content there. Whether you choose to do it or not is your choice.
It's all about choice.
I do think noone said that it is not there.
What is wrong is that this content is locked in instances only.
I want to have some hard content in open world as I am sick and tired of instances.
------------
Doing quest overlevel is NOT an answer. For many reasons.
Thats fair and not really arguable in many games. However there are still many games with hard content not in an instance.
What makes it hard? The pattern you have to memorize? Is it too complex? It's not hard. You get no death penaly, and you have zero risk. If you fail you try again until it's defeated. then you get your entitlement armor piece.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
The same things that has ever made games harder - dmg, hp, patterns, decision... same as ever.
Death penalty has never ever ever made an encounter hard. There may be an argument that it was hard to recover from a dp, but it didn't make what happened before the death hard.
One thing that is often overlooked and what I think really set WoW apart from UO / EQ was the customer service aspect from Blizzard right off the bat. They did things right.
Bug fixes were accomplished in a reasonable and timely manner (especially compared to the competition). Speaking from experience the UO team was an absolute pile of ****. Brutal at fixing bugs. Took 6months - 2 years to accomplish basic game changes. It would frequently lead to lashing out from the playerbase to a lot of the community relations guys. It was simply unacceptable.
Blizzard on the otherhand produced a much more polished product - with a level of customer service unseen by any of the competitors.
We've seen this since WoW.
This is MMORPG.com, haven for the beaters of dead horses...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
The boss does the exact same thing with or without death penalty. Because you did it with DP gives you the right to claim it was hard?
I call it degenerative game development. DGD, I believe there is a pill for it....
Death penalties ARE NOT ABOUT THE INVIDIVUAL ENCOUNTER. It makes the game hard if you have a death penalty.
I suppose technically you could argue that only permadeath actually makes a game harder. Other deaths just extend it.
NO. It only makes the game long and boring.
If you lack the skill to kill the boss in hard mode, you cannot do it whether the DP is 1 gold, or 1000 hours of level time.
I agree completely. I don't know why nobody tries something new. Every game that comes out just dissapoints me. I log in, make my character, and begin my journey. But the journey is always the same. Kill this 5 of this monster, collect 10 of this, talk to him. Oh look I have a new spell now, thats great, well not really because im bored of the new spell in 5 minutes anyway.
I tried to play tera beta this weekend and just gave up in about 2 hours. Yes the graphics are pretty and the combat system is cool (i guess..) but at the end of the day im going to get bored of it. Quest my way up to the max level doing the same old boring quests, only to realize that the end game content is the same as every other mmo.
I guess ill be awaiting PSO2/GW2/D3/. All those games at least do something different than the standard "mmo" . All the prequels to those games gave me hours of entertainment, lets just hope they don't sell out to all these new school gamers and ruin the game (but i dont have too much faith with the way things are going..)