Funnily enough I don't see a great deal of refutation in your post there. It is quite clear why 95% (in your words) of the money invested in mmorpgs goes on themeparks and it has fuck all to do with overall quality of the games in question. If you can turn out the same old shit with flashing lights and go faster stripes and people lap it up, you do exactly that.
Games are being dumbed down, not due to them not having long ass grinds, not due to them not having death penalties or nine hour respawns. The are primarily being dumbed down because 99% of games are simply piss poor reskins of last years big title with a few more single player features crammed in. That people are still falling for it pretty much points to the fact that they are dumb twats as well for the main.
Btw who are "you guys", some kind of online 1%?
Lol really want to make a "WE ARE THE 99%" joke...
I actually agree for the most part - but I admit that I am an elitist prick who knows (not thinks, knows) he is better than most people. Smarter, funnier, more logical... hell look at my post history and who I chose as a name and avatar!
I'm also a realist. The PvE sandbox with 0% grind I want is not the PvP orgy fest most sandboxers want.
I also have adapted and have fun (even if it is only for a few weeks/months at a time) with the current crop of games because they are often mindless and fun. I like mindless and fun.
Probably cause I'm getting old, not cause I'm too young and stupid to know better.
Well, it comes down to the devs all chasing the "big numbers".
EvE has been very successful and profitable up to the present, and has only 400-450k players. Yet, over the years they have sold at least a million "boxes", and it could be twice that or more.
At the time of the NGE, SWG had sold over a million boxes (original game and JTL), according to SOE's own press announcement, and had paid for itself twice over by then, according to some reliable estimates (which co-incedentally was one reason they were not afraid to trash that whole game in the attempt for more subs - they had already made their money on it). That game topped out at 350k subs at one point, with a steady number at 200k, all paying $15/mo.
So how big is big enough for the corporate devs that dominate the industry now?
A few hundred K is/was plenty of subs for CCP but not enough for SOE.
Personally, if more devs were satified with singles and doubles, instead of trying for a grand slam all the time (if you will pardon the baseball comparison) and being satisfied with that, there would be a lot more appitite for "risk" in the MMO market, and more things besides one "clone" after the next would be coming out of the big software houses....
Even if a developer is not chasing money, don't you think he would like 1000 players to enjoy his game as opposed to 10?
And it is easy to draw comparison. Eve is 400k .. biggest sandbox game, after very many years. AOC sold what, 700k boxes in the first week and deemed a failure. TOR sells 2M with 1.7M subs after 30 days. How about Rift & Aion? There are multiple themepark games doing that kind of numbers. So i would say that is a good range to expect.
You don't need 10M (like WOW) to be successful but obviously a good games can do 1-2M at launch.
Funnily enough I don't see a great deal of refutation in your post there. It is quite clear why 95% (in your words) of the money invested in mmorpgs goes on themeparks and it has fuck all to do with overall quality of the games in question. If you can turn out the same old shit with flashing lights and go faster stripes and people lap it up, you do exactly that.
Games are being dumbed down, not due to them not having long ass grinds, not due to them not having death penalties or nine hour respawns. The are primarily being dumbed down because 99% of games are simply piss poor reskins of last years big title with a few more single player features crammed in. That people are still falling for it pretty much points to the fact that they are dumb twats as well for the main.
Btw who are "you guys", some kind of online 1%?
Lol really want to make a "WE ARE THE 99%" joke...
I actually agree for the most part - but I admit that I am an elitist prick who knows (not thinks, knows) he is better than most people. Smarter, funnier, more logical... hell look at my post history and who I chose as a name and avatar!
I'm also a realist. The PvE sandbox with 0% grind I want is not the PvP orgy fest most sandboxers want.
I also have adapted and have fun (even if it is only for a few weeks/months at a time) with the current crop of games because they are often mindless and fun. I like mindless and fun.
Probably cause I'm getting old, not cause I'm too young and stupid to know better.
People who say these kinds of things about themselves are the false advertising of the ego world. Really smart, logical, realistic people know that they do not have to say that they are. People just know. The fact that you are posting here and carrying on such a long winded post about a well beaten dead horse is just another nail in the coffen.
Funnily enough I don't see a great deal of refutation in your post there. It is quite clear why 95% (in your words) of the money invested in mmorpgs goes on themeparks and it has fuck all to do with overall quality of the games in question. If you can turn out the same old shit with flashing lights and go faster stripes and people lap it up, you do exactly that.
Games are being dumbed down, not due to them not having long ass grinds, not due to them not having death penalties or nine hour respawns. The are primarily being dumbed down because 99% of games are simply piss poor reskins of last years big title with a few more single player features crammed in. That people are still falling for it pretty much points to the fact that they are dumb twats as well for the main.
Btw who are "you guys", some kind of online 1%?
Lol really want to make a "WE ARE THE 99%" joke...
I actually agree for the most part - but I admit that I am an elitist prick who knows (not thinks, knows) he is better than most people. Smarter, funnier, more logical... hell look at my post history and who I chose as a name and avatar!
I'm also a realist. The PvE sandbox with 0% grind I want is not the PvP orgy fest most sandboxers want.
I also have adapted and have fun (even if it is only for a few weeks/months at a time) with the current crop of games because they are often mindless and fun. I like mindless and fun.
Probably cause I'm getting old, not cause I'm too young and stupid to know better.
After this post...I wish I had just posted my initial comment to you as I would have been Spot on. But it also would of had me banned. But now that I think of it...maybe that wouldn't be so bad. God dammit...I need to go to bed. I really am this time.
Well, it comes down to the devs all chasing the "big numbers".
EvE has been very successful and profitable up to the present, and has only 400-450k players. Yet, over the years they have sold at least a million "boxes", and it could be twice that or more.
At the time of the NGE, SWG had sold over a million boxes (original game and JTL), according to SOE's own press announcement, and had paid for itself twice over by then, according to some reliable estimates (which co-incedentally was one reason they were not afraid to trash that whole game in the attempt for more subs - they had already made their money on it). That game topped out at 350k subs at one point, with a steady number at 200k, all paying $15/mo.
So how big is big enough for the corporate devs that dominate the industry now?
A few hundred K is/was plenty of subs for CCP but not enough for SOE.
Personally, if more devs were satified with singles and doubles, instead of trying for a grand slam all the time (if you will pardon the baseball comparison) and being satisfied with that, there would be a lot more appitite for "risk" in the MMO market, and more things besides one "clone" after the next would be coming out of the big software houses....
Even if a developer is not chasing money, don't you think he would like 1000 players to enjoy his game as opposed to 10?
And it is easy to draw comparison. Eve is 400k .. biggest sandbox game, after very many years. AOC sold what, 700k boxes in the first week and deemed a failure. TOR sells 2M with 1.7M subs after 30 days. How about Rift & Aion? There are multiple themepark games doing that kind of numbers. So i would say that is a good range to expect.
You don't need 10M (like WOW) to be successful but obviously a good games can do 1-2M at launch.
Part of that equation is long term retention.
EvE had many/most of those numbers playing for mutliple years, at $120 or more a year ( I don't know what the discounted rates for EvE subs have been and how buying playtime with ISK factors into overall revenue).
It is largely believed that AoC did not pay for itself, and that is part of the reason for it's being considered a failure, on top of anextremely poor retention rate.
As for the other games mentioned, Aion had a release in Asia first, which made them a good bit of money to cover the costs.
As to TOR, the jury is still out on that one. On one hand, it sold a lot of boxes, on the other the pie for TOR gets split a lot of ways and the question of medium term retention has not been answered yet. All at a very high cost of production. As to Rift, I don't follow that game enough to say.
Bottom line is that if devs were more interested in making a great game first, and "would be happy" with a more moderate sub base going in, instead of taking the safe route each and every time by following "the formula", the genre and players would be much better off with increased choice, instead of more of the "same old thing".
Funnily enough I don't see a great deal of refutation in your post there. It is quite clear why 95% (in your words) of the money invested in mmorpgs goes on themeparks and it has fuck all to do with overall quality of the games in question. If you can turn out the same old shit with flashing lights and go faster stripes and people lap it up, you do exactly that.
Games are being dumbed down, not due to them not having long ass grinds, not due to them not having death penalties or nine hour respawns. The are primarily being dumbed down because 99% of games are simply piss poor reskins of last years big title with a few more single player features crammed in. That people are still falling for it pretty much points to the fact that they are dumb twats as well for the main.
Btw who are "you guys", some kind of online 1%?
Lol really want to make a "WE ARE THE 99%" joke...
I actually agree for the most part - but I admit that I am an elitist prick who knows (not thinks, knows) he is better than most people. Smarter, funnier, more logical... hell look at my post history and who I chose as a name and avatar!
I'm also a realist. The PvE sandbox with 0% grind I want is not the PvP orgy fest most sandboxers want.
I also have adapted and have fun (even if it is only for a few weeks/months at a time) with the current crop of games because they are often mindless and fun. I like mindless and fun.
Probably cause I'm getting old, not cause I'm too young and stupid to know better.
People who say these kinds of things about themselves are the false advertising of the ego world. Really smart, logical, realistic people know that they do not have to say that they are. People just know. The fact that you are posting here and carrying on such a long winded post about a well beaten dead horse is just another nail in the coffen.
Sorry....just can't stand large egos much
This is blatantly untrue. Loads of geniuses have huge superiority and ego complexes. Insult him if you must, but don't just make shit up to do it.
Well, it comes down to the devs all chasing the "big numbers".
EvE has been very successful and profitable up to the present, and has only 400-450k players. Yet, over the years they have sold at least a million "boxes", and it could be twice that or more.
At the time of the NGE, SWG had sold over a million boxes (original game and JTL), according to SOE's own press announcement, and had paid for itself twice over by then, according to some reliable estimates (which co-incedentally was one reason they were not afraid to trash that whole game in the attempt for more subs - they had already made their money on it). That game topped out at 350k subs at one point, with a steady number at 200k, all paying $15/mo.
So how big is big enough for the corporate devs that dominate the industry now?
A few hundred K is/was plenty of subs for CCP but not enough for SOE.
Personally, if more devs were satified with singles and doubles, instead of trying for a grand slam all the time (if you will pardon the baseball comparison) and being satisfied with that, there would be a lot more appitite for "risk" in the MMO market, and more things besides one "clone" after the next would be coming out of the big software houses....
Even if a developer is not chasing money, don't you think he would like 1000 players to enjoy his game as opposed to 10?
And it is easy to draw comparison. Eve is 400k .. biggest sandbox game, after very many years. AOC sold what, 700k boxes in the first week and deemed a failure. TOR sells 2M with 1.7M subs after 30 days. How about Rift & Aion? There are multiple themepark games doing that kind of numbers. So i would say that is a good range to expect.
You don't need 10M (like WOW) to be successful but obviously a good games can do 1-2M at launch.
Part of that equation is long term retention.
EvE had many/most of those numbers playing for mutliple years, at $120 or more a year ( I don't know what the discounted rates for EvE subs have been and how buying playtime with ISK factors into overall revenue).
It is largely believed that AoC did not pay for itself, and that is part of the reason for it's being considered a failure, on top of anextremely poor retention rate.
As for the other games mentioned, Aion had a release in Asia first, which made them a good bit of money to cover the costs.
As to TOR, the jury is still out on that one. On one hand, it sold a lot of boxes, on the other the pie for TOR gets split a lot of ways and the question of medium term retention has not been answered yet. All at a very high cost of production. As to Rift, I don't follow that game enough to say.
Bottom line is that if devs were more interested in making a great game first, and "would be happy" with a more moderate sub base going in, instead of taking the safe route each and every time by following "the formula", the genre and players would be much better off with increased choice, instead of more of the "same old thing".
Long retention is not needed if you can sell millions of boxes. The only reason why TOR is still not a clear success is that it costs so much ($200M) to make. If it costs like a normal MMO ($50M), it is already the biggest success.
How abotu Aion & Rift .. those are successful and makign money, right? LOTRO? DDO? DC Universe?
Maple story and Lineage are both big successes. Heck even Guild War, which needs NO retention since it does not charge a sub (and it did sell millions).
Considering most sandbox MMO discussions end up with people fighting over what defines a sandbox and what things are or aren't neccessary in a sandbox game...
Are ya'll really suprised you don't have any support to make these kinds of games?
Indie devs need to make games within their skill level and budget.
Start small, do it well, build from there. Like CCP did.
The real problem is US - the players, we won't accept a small indie game for what it is.
If it doesn't have every feature we've ever wanted AT LAUNCH and it all works, we bail.
DF, MO.. too ambitious, too big, not well done. Sandboxers bail.
They try and make em big and have all the features because we, the players, are spoiled.
Perfect sandbox with FFA PvP and full loot and a great crafting system... but oh NO it doesn't have housing and naval battles and siege warefare at launch- failure game f2p in 6 months.
What are some of the biggest/most successful indie games and WHY are they big and successful?
But I see where you are getting at. You want to say that the only one's that are big and successful is the one's that went ThemePark because that is where the money is.
No that's not where I am going at all.
Indie devs need to make games within their skill level and budget.
Start small, do it well, build from there. Like CCP did.
The real problem is US - the players, we won't accept a small indie game for what it is.
If it doesn't have every feature we've ever wanted AT LAUNCH and it all works, we bail.
DF, MO.. too ambitious, too big, not well done. Sandboxers bail.
They try and make em big and have all the features because we, the players, are spoiled.
Perfect sandbox with FFA PvP and full loot and a great crafting system... but oh NO it doesn't have housing and naval battles and siege warefare at launch- failure game f2p in 6 months.
That's our attitude.
I dont agree. I think us sandboxers would be content with a game that is decent and start from there. That is how UO, Asheron's Call and Eve all started. However, the current crop of indy sandbox MMORPGs are terribly underdeveloped with so many bugs and imbalances that the game itself is barely playable. They are simply not well done and barely have any content, which is a far cry from what you described with naval warfare and what not.
Get people to send in 10$ or whatever they can spare to pool enough $ to attract a decent dev studio and fund the game yourselves.
Any community member in good standing could probably get the support of MMORPG.com and other MMO sites like Massively etc. to give free press and draw real developer attention.
If there really are enough dedicated sandbox players out there, should be easy.
In fact, there is a project like this already but I don't think it's for sandbox MMOs.
Long retention is not needed if you can sell millions of boxes. The only reason why TOR is still not a clear success is that it costs so much ($200M) to make. If it costs like a normal MMO ($50M), it is already the biggest success.
How abotu Aion & Rift .. those are successful and makign money, right? LOTRO? DDO? DC Universe?
Maple story and Lineage are both big successes. Heck even Guild War, which needs NO retention since it does not charge a sub (and it did sell millions).
It is not, but some of us like playing longer before reaching a point where evrything we can do is either pointless or reset after 4 months, and, lets be honest, it is the backbone of "xyz game is better because it has more subs" discussions
Get people to send in 10$ or whatever they can spare to pool enough $ to attract a decent dev studio and fund the game yourselves.
Any community member in good standing could probably get the support of MMORPG.com and other MMO sites like Massively etc. to give free press and draw real developer attention.
If there really are enough dedicated sandbox players out there, should be easy.
In fact, there is a project like this already but I don't think it's for sandbox MMOs.
Dont be ridicilous. If people are criticizing Hollywood movies you think the answer would be to make their own movies?
No, a modern MMORPG is a multi-million dollar project and takes experience and persistence to execute properly. Just because you are unable to do that, does not mean you cant criticize it. Heck if that was the case then almost no one could criticize anything. Car rewievers could not criticize cars and even food critics could not criticze restaurants. Sorry but the world does not work like that.
I am a customer and I can criticize the products I consume, even though I cant personally create my own.
Castille said I should start up a donations paypal account or something to pay for work on TTS, but I wanted to have something more concrete so people knew they weren't throwing away money.
Just as a hypothetical though, what kind of proof of seriousness and non vapourware-ness would people want before being willing to support a game?
This is primarily a question for people interested in off the beaten path sandbox type stuff. I know that certain people have no interest in this and don't even like sandboxes, and I won't name names but you know who you are, so lets save ourselves some time and not answer kk guys?
Seriously. You had to start a new thread for this?
I agree. There's enough threads like these that new ones don't make any sense. I guess the OP needed to inflate his e-go so he pimped out his blog.bleh
Get people to send in 10$ or whatever they can spare to pool enough $ to attract a decent dev studio and fund the game yourselves.
Any community member in good standing could probably get the support of MMORPG.com and other MMO sites like Massively etc. to give free press and draw real developer attention.
If there really are enough dedicated sandbox players out there, should be easy.
In fact, there is a project like this already but I don't think it's for sandbox MMOs.
Dont be ridicilous. If people are criticizing Hollywood movies you think the answer would be to make their own movies?
No, a modern MMORPG is a multi-million dollar project and takes experience and persistence to execute properly. Just because you are unable to do that, does not mean you cant criticize it. Heck if that was the case then almost no one could criticize anything. Car rewievers could not criticize cars and even food critics could not criticze restaurants. Sorry but the world does not work like that.
I am a customer and I can criticize the products I consume, even though I cant personally create my own.
You can certainly criticize. But, actually, yes another solution, if you are really passionate about something is to do it your way. It does actually work that way. Many great American companys were founded that way. Criticism can affect change but I don't think it is any more effective, less so really. And forum criticism, a minority of vocal negativatism, nah not going to even register but it might make the posters feel better. Gives a place to vent.
Think back to youger times, remember the 1st person you had a crsuh on and found out they had the same thing for you?
That person's face and that experience will go to your grave. You never forget.
But who was the 4th person that happened with?
It's that 1st time experience. I am willing to bet that Blizzard knows this. They have spent a lot of time trying to keep that 1st time experience going. Problem is, They can't. It's not about WoW and Blizzard anymore. It's about Us. We are different (in our connection to the MMO genre) than we were in 2004. What stimulated us then doesn't really work anymore.
But Blizzard has been trying to keep it going. But in doing so, they have perverted that 1st time experiecne.
That is gone, never to return, the magic of the quest fest MMO has faded. Making it easier, is not the answer.
But, actually, yes another solution, if you are really passionate about something is to do it your way. It does actually work that way. Many great American companys were founded that way.
Wasn't about trying to do it your self, but to show the powers at be there is support for a different type of game.
Think the publishers are the ones calling the shots? Pool your resources and become a collective publisher.
A guy can't even be honest without getting torn apart on these boards.
No wonder ya'll can't get your games made the way you want them.
Worst. Community. Ever.
It really is just an f-ing cesspool in here lately. It was not always like this...but damn, It's bad.
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking that. These forums have taken a serious nose-dive in the past few months.
I think many people are bitter and burned as a whloe by the industry at large. Probably don't realize that they are directing their anger in the wrong direction.
Comments
Lol really want to make a "WE ARE THE 99%" joke...
I actually agree for the most part - but I admit that I am an elitist prick who knows (not thinks, knows) he is better than most people. Smarter, funnier, more logical... hell look at my post history and who I chose as a name and avatar!
I'm also a realist. The PvE sandbox with 0% grind I want is not the PvP orgy fest most sandboxers want.
I also have adapted and have fun (even if it is only for a few weeks/months at a time) with the current crop of games because they are often mindless and fun. I like mindless and fun.
Probably cause I'm getting old, not cause I'm too young and stupid to know better.
Even if a developer is not chasing money, don't you think he would like 1000 players to enjoy his game as opposed to 10?
And it is easy to draw comparison. Eve is 400k .. biggest sandbox game, after very many years. AOC sold what, 700k boxes in the first week and deemed a failure. TOR sells 2M with 1.7M subs after 30 days. How about Rift & Aion? There are multiple themepark games doing that kind of numbers. So i would say that is a good range to expect.
You don't need 10M (like WOW) to be successful but obviously a good games can do 1-2M at launch.
People who say these kinds of things about themselves are the false advertising of the ego world. Really smart, logical, realistic people know that they do not have to say that they are. People just know. The fact that you are posting here and carrying on such a long winded post about a well beaten dead horse is just another nail in the coffen.
Sorry....just can't stand large egos much
After this post...I wish I had just posted my initial comment to you as I would have been Spot on. But it also would of had me banned. But now that I think of it...maybe that wouldn't be so bad. God dammit...I need to go to bed. I really am this time.
Part of that equation is long term retention.
EvE had many/most of those numbers playing for mutliple years, at $120 or more a year ( I don't know what the discounted rates for EvE subs have been and how buying playtime with ISK factors into overall revenue).
It is largely believed that AoC did not pay for itself, and that is part of the reason for it's being considered a failure, on top of anextremely poor retention rate.
As for the other games mentioned, Aion had a release in Asia first, which made them a good bit of money to cover the costs.
As to TOR, the jury is still out on that one. On one hand, it sold a lot of boxes, on the other the pie for TOR gets split a lot of ways and the question of medium term retention has not been answered yet. All at a very high cost of production. As to Rift, I don't follow that game enough to say.
Bottom line is that if devs were more interested in making a great game first, and "would be happy" with a more moderate sub base going in, instead of taking the safe route each and every time by following "the formula", the genre and players would be much better off with increased choice, instead of more of the "same old thing".
This is blatantly untrue. Loads of geniuses have huge superiority and ego complexes. Insult him if you must, but don't just make shit up to do it.
Long retention is not needed if you can sell millions of boxes. The only reason why TOR is still not a clear success is that it costs so much ($200M) to make. If it costs like a normal MMO ($50M), it is already the biggest success.
How abotu Aion & Rift .. those are successful and makign money, right? LOTRO? DDO? DC Universe?
Maple story and Lineage are both big successes. Heck even Guild War, which needs NO retention since it does not charge a sub (and it did sell millions).
[Mod Edit]
Considering most sandbox MMO discussions end up with people fighting over what defines a sandbox and what things are or aren't neccessary in a sandbox game...
Are ya'll really suprised you don't have any support to make these kinds of games?
Indie devs need to make games within their skill level and budget.
Start small, do it well, build from there. Like CCP did.
The real problem is US - the players, we won't accept a small indie game for what it is.
If it doesn't have every feature we've ever wanted AT LAUNCH and it all works, we bail.
DF, MO.. too ambitious, too big, not well done. Sandboxers bail.
They try and make em big and have all the features because we, the players, are spoiled.
Perfect sandbox with FFA PvP and full loot and a great crafting system... but oh NO it doesn't have housing and naval battles and siege warefare at launch- failure game f2p in 6 months.
That's our attitude.
[Mod Edit]
I dont agree. I think us sandboxers would be content with a game that is decent and start from there. That is how UO, Asheron's Call and Eve all started. However, the current crop of indy sandbox MMORPGs are terribly underdeveloped with so many bugs and imbalances that the game itself is barely playable. They are simply not well done and barely have any content, which is a far cry from what you described with naval warfare and what not.
My gaming blog
So start a MMO development project.
Get people to send in 10$ or whatever they can spare to pool enough $ to attract a decent dev studio and fund the game yourselves.
Any community member in good standing could probably get the support of MMORPG.com and other MMO sites like Massively etc. to give free press and draw real developer attention.
If there really are enough dedicated sandbox players out there, should be easy.
In fact, there is a project like this already but I don't think it's for sandbox MMOs.
It is not, but some of us like playing longer before reaching a point where evrything we can do is either pointless or reset after 4 months, and, lets be honest, it is the backbone of "xyz game is better because it has more subs" discussions
Flame on!
Dont be ridicilous. If people are criticizing Hollywood movies you think the answer would be to make their own movies?
No, a modern MMORPG is a multi-million dollar project and takes experience and persistence to execute properly. Just because you are unable to do that, does not mean you cant criticize it. Heck if that was the case then almost no one could criticize anything. Car rewievers could not criticize cars and even food critics could not criticze restaurants. Sorry but the world does not work like that.
I am a customer and I can criticize the products I consume, even though I cant personally create my own.
My gaming blog
Castille said I should start up a donations paypal account or something to pay for work on TTS, but I wanted to have something more concrete so people knew they weren't throwing away money.
Just as a hypothetical though, what kind of proof of seriousness and non vapourware-ness would people want before being willing to support a game?
This is primarily a question for people interested in off the beaten path sandbox type stuff. I know that certain people have no interest in this and don't even like sandboxes, and I won't name names but you know who you are, so lets save ourselves some time and not answer kk guys?
I have to say, that is a marvelous analogy that I can totally get behind. I salute you for the distillation of so poignant a point!
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.
I agree. There's enough threads like these that new ones don't make any sense. I guess the OP needed to inflate his e-go so he pimped out his blog.bleh
You can certainly criticize. But, actually, yes another solution, if you are really passionate about something is to do it your way. It does actually work that way. Many great American companys were founded that way. Criticism can affect change but I don't think it is any more effective, less so really. And forum criticism, a minority of vocal negativatism, nah not going to even register but it might make the posters feel better. Gives a place to vent.
I see the problem like this.
We as the consumer have changed.
Think back to youger times, remember the 1st person you had a crsuh on and found out they had the same thing for you?
That person's face and that experience will go to your grave. You never forget.
But who was the 4th person that happened with?
It's that 1st time experience. I am willing to bet that Blizzard knows this. They have spent a lot of time trying to keep that 1st time experience going. Problem is, They can't. It's not about WoW and Blizzard anymore. It's about Us. We are different (in our connection to the MMO genre) than we were in 2004. What stimulated us then doesn't really work anymore.
But Blizzard has been trying to keep it going. But in doing so, they have perverted that 1st time experiecne.
That is gone, never to return, the magic of the quest fest MMO has faded. Making it easier, is not the answer.
Wasn't about trying to do it your self, but to show the powers at be there is support for a different type of game.
Think the publishers are the ones calling the shots? Pool your resources and become a collective publisher.
http://www.kickstarter.com/
Not saying go back to school and learn to make games, though you could do that too.
Or you could sub to one of the multiple sandbox MMO games currently available for play and "vote with your wallet."
You could then, as a paying customer, lobby and petition the devs of that game to make changes you'd like to see.
But that goes to my other point - most MMO players are spoiled and couldn't stand dealing with bugs and broken/missing features etc.
Those were a big part of classic MMOs too, if anyone else chooses to remember that fact.
Instead ya'll want the "magical AAA sandbox MMO that is perfect and without issues" to be released out of thin air.
Just as bad as the Themepark fans waiting for/hyping "the next big thing."
What are you trying to say with those pictures? Wireframe shaded model vs toys... wat?
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking that. These forums have taken a serious nose-dive in the past few months.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I think many people are bitter and burned as a whloe by the industry at large. Probably don't realize that they are directing their anger in the wrong direction.
Problem is the fact that as MMO continue they take away the players ability to learn to play the game, as everything is handed to them...
Here is the difference between a MMO player who started before WoW and two who started with WoW. Look at the response to sucking... /laugh litterally.