For the first time I think a gaming company is doing stealth correctly. From the video's I've watched teh thief still get's lot's of 5-7 second's of stealth anways. Plenty of time to break LOS or let your cool downs come back up.
Thank you Arenanet for getting rid of the stupidly op stealth mechnics of all these other games.
(btw, I leveled a shadow in STWORS when it launched and perm stealth is sooooooooo easy to gank with. my first game as a stealth class and omg is it easy to player kill)
Of course it is easy to gank with if they aren't expecting it. But in team battles that is rarely the situation. And in team battles there are a bijillion ways to keep AOE or other stealth breaking mechanics on an area so you don't get ganked. I mean, if all you use the rogue for is to gank unspuspecting noobs in open world then you played it wrong in my opinion. You gave rogues a bad name.
And the rougue had stealth because he was so weak in many other ways. Usually have no range abilities, no healing abilities, and wear leather armor. I always found clerics in PVP to be the least skilled in my opinion, but hey opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.
I still hope GW2 is a great game as it can influence the whole industry if it is. But taking away the stealth from the rogue is just too much for me to bear.
And as for skill based games, I get my fair share in my FPSers, chess, and my RTSers. MMO's for me are more for fun and role playing, and looks like there is no assassin mechanic in GW2 only more of a ninja mechanic. I always prefere the assassin.
I'm sorry this is not the game for you. Me and all the others though that have always thought perma stealth is too strong a skill are glad.
I know WOW has very powerful perma stealthers, so do SWTOR and RIFT. At least you have choices where I have had none. I remeber how happy i was when WAR was in development and said no stealth classes..........YEAH..........then they changed there mind and had 30 second stealth which i thought was reasonable enough but still dissapointing.
Yeah, I hear ya. Plenty of games with good stealth mechanics. I'm sorry GW2 won't be one of them. But for those that say its overpowered, statisically they actually don't lead the dps or kill boards in WoW or Rift for example. So, statisically, they are not overpowered.
They are overpowered if you gank unsuspecting noobs in open world, no doubt. But only jackasses do that. You know, the guys that give rogues a bad name. I NEVER jack noobs from stealth so don't blame all rogues for the jackasses that do.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Now that i think about it a thief who can go invis 5 or 7 times during a fight will be far more annoying than one who can only perma stealth once.
lol. they have some bad ass looking skills. they will still be the same OP rogue type class we've come acustomed to. at least imo.
one duel I saw with a thief vs mesmer the thief went invis at least 5 times. Everytime the thief would go stealtht the mesmer was left standing there bracing himself for the next burst attack. It was really fun to watch and a very dynamic fight.
Now that i think about it a thief who can go invis 5 or 7 times during a fight will be far more annoying than one who can only perma stealth once.
lol. they have some bad ass looking skills. they will still be the same OP rogue type class we've come acustomed to. at least imo.
It could be the bad assest class in the game that wasn't my point. The situations you can get yourself into in the open world as an assassin are some of the funnest I've had in an MMO. Sad face about GW2 abandoning us assassins.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Now that i think about it a thief who can go invis 5 or 7 times during a fight will be far more annoying than one who can only perma stealth once.
lol. they have some bad ass looking skills. they will still be the same OP rogue type class we've come acustomed to. at least imo.
It could be the bad assest class in the game that wasn't my point. The situations you can get yourself into in the open world as an assassin are some of the funnest I've had in an MMO. Sad face about GW2 abandoning us assassins.
I was in a party in Rift that killed teh defiant general in their city by using stealth and then teleporting the rest of us in. It took us a couple of night to do it because the first night to many defiant saw us in there tower.
I understand that some fun exploiting can be done with stealth but for the rest of the classes/player's its not fun to have no idea someone is close to you.
Being able to permanently avoid detection is just, just, just not fun for everyone facing that.
And I didnt greif the players i ganked leveling in swtor's. I just ganked them to see what playing a stealth class was like since i was told in every single guild and every mmo that perma stealth is not op.........I think it is. It's just to easy to always fight on your advantage.
Even in group play stealth is very powerful. stealth is incredible for baiting. 2 stealthers working togehter in vent is stupid op.
Now that i think about it a thief who can go invis 5 or 7 times during a fight will be far more annoying than one who can only perma stealth once.
lol. they have some bad ass looking skills. they will still be the same OP rogue type class we've come acustomed to. at least imo.
It could be the bad assest class in the game that wasn't my point. The situations you can get yourself into in the open world as an assassin are some of the funnest I've had in an MMO. Sad face about GW2 abandoning us assassins.
yeah, i have no idea what yur point was. i wasn't responing to one of yur posts. sorry if you don't like how they did thieves. maybe one of the traits will grant longer stealth.
Now that i think about it a thief who can go invis 5 or 7 times during a fight will be far more annoying than one who can only perma stealth once.
lol. they have some bad ass looking skills. they will still be the same OP rogue type class we've come acustomed to. at least imo.
It could be the bad assest class in the game that wasn't my point. The situations you can get yourself into in the open world as an assassin are some of the funnest I've had in an MMO. Sad face about GW2 abandoning us assassins.
yeah, i have no idea what yur point was. i wasn't responing to one of yur posts. sorry if you don't like how they did thieves. maybe one of the traits will grant longer stealth.
That is my hope actually: that there will be a skill that allows it. People often forget how weak a rogue is in general. The top arena players are not rogues in WoW for instance. And WoW is a game many use as an example of rogues being overpowered. In Rift they rarely lead any of the statisical categories in PVP matches either. It is easy to SAY rogues are overpowered in those games, but the statistics say otherwise.
In WoW at one time long ago they were pretty powerful, but it was actually for their CC (stun lock) ability not their stealth and that CC ability was nerfed away ages ago.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I think Taugrim put it best why the typical Rogue Perma-stealth mechanic is so flawed.... WATCH HERE.
In the end, no MMORPG will be able to some exciting to watch stealth battles like this (and these are just beginners), if follow the generic perma stealth and stun-lock out of stealth mechanic that games like WoW, Rift, Aion & SW:TOR seem to follow.
"Stealing: Above their skill bar, all thieves have a special skill called Steal that can be used on enemies. It does not actually steal a real item from an opponent, but rather generates an appropriate environmental weapon based on the target."
"Stealing: Above their skill bar, all thieves have a special skill called Steal that can be used on enemies. It does not actually steal a real item from an opponent, but rather generates an appropriate environmental weapon based on the target."
What? So does this thief actually steal or not?
Yes, they can steal from just about any mob or player in the game. That is their special aspect of the profession (all professions have some sort of unique aspect to them). They have changed it up quite a bit so I'd be interested to see how it is now. The problem is that in the last press beta, hardly anyone made any videos or even wrote about the Thief. If I happen to get into the beta, it'll be the first profession I try.
3 second stealth allows them to disapear drop the target if there bign target drops agros on npcs and then they pop out and do a high dmg skill. Perma stealth s kinda stupid imo and requires no skill thats why i would assume there no perma stealth n GW2 cause devs want it to be a skill based game, 3 seconds may be a little low (will need to find out in game) i wouldnt go higher than a 20 second stealth max though.
Every class has "no skill" mechanics. I've seen warriors with insta full-heal pops, clerics who could spam heals to out-do up to 2 or 3 people burning them at once. Mages who spam ice traps. Classes that teleport across the map. Etc. I really don't need a lecture on "skill"
And I'm not talking about what takes the most skill (note: it wouldn't be a tab target game thats for sure) I'm talking about mechanics that I find fun. Stealth to me was fun. Not for ganking newbs or anything, but for daring myself to do crazy risky things and see if I get away with it. Like slipping into enemy capital and killing their auctioneer and escaping with my life LOL.
Good times, good times...
I also like to stealth around exploring behind enemy lines. If it isn't permanent stealth I sure won't bother with the thief class.
Now that i think about it a thief who can go invis 5 or 7 times during a fight will be far more annoying than one who can only perma stealth once.
lol. they have some bad ass looking skills. they will still be the same OP rogue type class we've come acustomed to. at least imo.
It could be the bad assest class in the game that wasn't my point. The situations you can get yourself into in the open world as an assassin are some of the funnest I've had in an MMO. Sad face about GW2 abandoning us assassins.
yeah, i have no idea what yur point was. i wasn't responing to one of yur posts. sorry if you don't like how they did thieves. maybe one of the traits will grant longer stealth.
That is my hope actually: that there will be a skill that allows it. People often forget how weak a rogue is in general. The top arena players are not rogues in WoW for instance. And WoW is a game many use as an example of rogues being overpowered. In Rift they rarely lead any of the statisical categories in PVP matches either. It is easy to SAY rogues are overpowered in those games, but the statistics say otherwise.
In WoW at one time long ago they were pretty powerful, but it was actually for their CC (stun lock) ability not their stealth and that CC ability was nerfed away ages ago.
Please note the below post is about open world pvp (rvr) WvWvW, not arenas, duels, or battlegrounds:
I have to agree with the other assassin players here. I've played rogues as my main class for my entire time of playing MMO's since around 2001. Perma stealth is a must for rogues for open world pvp. Rogues are naturally squishy, so surprise is one of our biggest assets.
-Again, another guy made an great point, so many other classes have their "amazing" ability, like tanks getting full health back with whatever skill. Every class has their uber skill that restores all health, any-time stuns, etc. So the whole arguement about perma-stealth is unfair considering every other class has its ace-in-the-whole skill that other classes just don't have access to.
-Don't use the flawed arguement that perma-stealth will lead to tons and tons of stealth teams, and then eventually lead to packs of griefers. Those packs of team stealth players don't consistently earn enough rps/pts to justify continually doing it as a full time profession. If you don't get rps/rvr points, you won't get any stronger. So it will just be the same gimp stealths ganking random people until they get bored and leave, whilst your non-stealth character will go gain lots of points, and eventually you will get much stronger than them, and be able to own 2-3 at a time. So don't use the slippery slope arguement because it works both ways in that you will over time gain more points than them and over power the groups easily
-So removing perma stealth is just away to satisfy the handful of people who get jumped while stupidly making a B-line for whatever objective they have in mind. Well guess what, if you take the fastest, most frequented route, its going to be camped. Either group up or go another route
-But anyways, regardless, a stealther/rogue's biggest asset is surprise. I've played tons of games without perma stealth. 30-60 seconds is not enough time to find a good target, get behind enemy lines, and attack. THEN you have to consider you will be chased! After you are chased you stealth, but then they will be looking for you and they WON'T give up. And guess what your behind enemy lines and your stealth breaks because you were chased and didn't have enough time to get back or away. So speaking from years of experience 30 seconds-ish stealth is shaite. Its unreasonably to expect someone to strike out at a caster in the midst of a fight (who will be at the back or surrounded by tanks), then use that gimp stealth on a timer to get out. In a perfect scenario im sure someone with a rogue alt has done it therefore believe its possible often, but I'm just telling you that perfect scenario just doesntly consistenly come up
-The above point was just for zerg/group fights! This isnt even talking about open world random fights where the rogue NEEDS surprise to fight another player. This game is creating a situation where stealthers have to zerg or just not rvr in open world.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
For the first time I think a gaming company is doing stealth correctly. From the video's I've watched teh thief still get's lot's of 5-7 second's of stealth anways. Plenty of time to break LOS or let your cool downs come back up.
Thank you Arenanet for getting rid of the stupidly op stealth mechnics of all these other games.
(btw, I leveled a shadow in STWORS when it launched and perm stealth is sooooooooo easy to gank with. my first game as a stealth class and omg is it easy to player kill)
Actually Witch hunters in WAR had limited stealth so not a new concept by A Net sorry
Just as a follow up point, the limited stealth feature, in a roundabout way, is about convenience:
-Players want to run straight for whatever their destination is, and want to get there as fast as possible. When that fastest path possible to their destination is prevented and they can't get instant gratification then they complain. You see this all of the time being addressed by companies.
It starts out, if you get killed in open world pvp, you have to wait/run 15-20 minutes to get ported/run back to your destination. People don't like consequences for dying, so they complain, and in the end, can instantly arrive back at the fight spot within minutes/seconds and there is no consequences to dying mindlessly. Why, because "I need instant gratification, I want what I want as fast as possible, preferably right now". You want to remain in the fight? Don't get killed mindlessly.
Which brings me back to my original point, if you have perma stealth, and rogues are sapping reinforcements (which should be one of their main roles, that and killing casters in zerg fights), then those people can't have what they want. They can't go directly to point B. How hard is it to not take that bridge? Its easy just go around it and add 1-3 minutes to your route. But no, i have to mindlessly auto run to the keep, get jumped, and then complain and ruin a hunter/stalkers gaming experience so that perma-stealth is a no-no industry wide for open world PVP.
- and don't say Perma stealth characters want instant gratification as well. We have to spend 10-15 minutes waiting for that special straggler/lone target to come around. But it makes the game exciting and adds to the roleplay feel. I think in any war situation, routes/choke points with high traffic will be besieged with highwaymen etc.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
Just as a follow up point, the limited stealth feature, in a roundabout way, is about convenience:
-Players want to run straight for whatever their destination is, and want to get there as fast as possible. When that fastest path possible to their destination is prevented and they can't get instant gratification then they complain. You see this all of the time being addressed by companies.
It starts out, if you get killed in open world pvp, you have to wait/run 15-20 minutes to get ported/run back to your destination. People don't like consequences for dying, so they complain, and in the end, can instantly arrive back at the fight spot within minutes/seconds and there is no consequences to dying mindlessly. Why, because "I need instant gratification, I want what I want as fast as possible, preferably right now". You want to remain in the fight? Don't get killed mindlessly.
Which brings me back to my original point, if you have perma stealth, and rogues are sapping reinforcements (which should be one of their main roles, that and killing casters in zerg fights), then those people can't have what they want. They can't go directly to point B. How hard is it to not take that bridge? Its easy just go around it and add 1-3 minutes to your route. But no, i have to mindlessly auto run to the keep, get jumped, and then complain and ruin a hunter/stalkers gaming experience so that perma-stealth is a no-no industry wide for open world PVP.
- and don't say Perma stealth characters want instant gratification as well. We have to spend 10-15 minutes waiting for that special straggler/lone target to come around. But it makes the game exciting and adds to the roleplay feel. I think in any war situation, routes/choke points with high traffic will be besieged with highwaymen etc.
You are wasting your time here bro, nothing GW2 does is wrong it is all amazing and innovattive, not to mention others games have and do use this same mechanic
Just as a follow up point, the limited stealth feature, in a roundabout way, is about convenience:
-Players want to run straight for whatever their destination is, and want to get there as fast as possible. When that fastest path possible to their destination is prevented and they can't get instant gratification then they complain. You see this all of the time being addressed by companies.
It starts out, if you get killed in open world pvp, you have to wait/run 15-20 minutes to get ported/run back to your destination. People don't like consequences for dying, so they complain, and in the end, can instantly arrive back at the fight spot within minutes/seconds and there is no consequences to dying mindlessly. Why, because "I need instant gratification, I want what I want as fast as possible, preferably right now". You want to remain in the fight? Don't get killed mindlessly.
Which brings me back to my original point, if you have perma stealth, and rogues are sapping reinforcements (which should be one of their main roles, that and killing casters in zerg fights), then those people can't have what they want. They can't go directly to point B. How hard is it to not take that bridge? Its easy just go around it and add 1-3 minutes to your route. But no, i have to mindlessly auto run to the keep, get jumped, and then complain and ruin a hunter/stalkers gaming experience so that perma-stealth is a no-no industry wide for open world PVP.
- and don't say Perma stealth characters want instant gratification as well. We have to spend 10-15 minutes waiting for that special straggler/lone target to come around. But it makes the game exciting and adds to the roleplay feel. I think in any war situation, routes/choke points with high traffic will be besieged with highwaymen etc.
You are wasting your time here bro, nothing GW2 does is wrong it is all amazing and innovattive, not to mention others games have and do use this same mechanic
I have no idea what point you're trying to make. If you don't like the class then you can play WOW, RIFT, SWTORS for traditional rogues.
No problem you have 3 huge titles that all use the perma stealth mechanic..........there you go. Have fun.
Yes, but none of those have 3 different factions/sides fighting one another. Secondly, those games don't have balanced rewards for open world kills. In those games, if you want to rack up pvp gear/skill points, you need to grind battlegrounds over and over rinse wash repeat.
Guild Wars 2 will actually have meaningful open world pvp. So no those prior 3 games won't work.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
Thief (n): somebody who steals: somebody who steals something, especially one who intends to escape notice
Not seeing the thief here. Even the "Steal" ability is not an actual act of theft. I think Pirate would be a better name, or Assassin, or Bandit. There are a wide array of names that do the same thing this class does. Theiving isn't one of them.
Yes, but none of those have 3 different factions/sides fighting one another. Secondly, those games don't have balanced rewards for open world kills. In those games, if you want to rack up pvp gear/skill points, you need to grind battlegrounds over and over rinse wash repeat.
Guild Wars 2 will actually have meaningful open world pvp. So no those prior 3 games won't work.
Well in the end, you are simply wasting your time here, because ArenaNet will never add perma stealth to the Thief. Heck, they removed there longest stealth ability "Hide in the Shadows": a 30 second stealth on a 1min cooldown and I doubt they have any intention of bringing it back. It's simply because the Thief has not been designed around the flawed mechanic of perma stealth and being able to stunlock people in stealth and being useless out of stealth. Mainly because that kind of Rogue would be useless in large-scale PvP.
So if you want to enjoy the 3 faction PvP in GW2, then you'll simply have to adapt to the game, because the game won't simply adapt to you.
Yes, but none of those have 3 different factions/sides fighting one another. Secondly, those games don't have balanced rewards for open world kills. In those games, if you want to rack up pvp gear/skill points, you need to grind battlegrounds over and over rinse wash repeat.
Guild Wars 2 will actually have meaningful open world pvp. So no those prior 3 games won't work.
Well in the end, you are simply wasting your time here, because ArenaNet will never add perma stealth to the Thief. Heck, they removed there longest stealth ability "Hide in the Shadows": a 30 second stealth on a 1min cooldown and I doubt they have any intention of bringing it back. It's simply because the Thief has not been designed around the flawed mechanic of perma stealth and being able to stunlock people in stealth and being useless out of stealth. Mainly because that kind of Rogue would be useless in large-scale PvP.
So if you want to enjoy the 3 faction PvP in GW2, then you'll simply have to adapt to the game, because the game won't simply adapt to you.
Hah, sorry, i have to disagree. Years of RVR in Daoc are the evidence that perma stealth is not flawed AND that type of rogue isn't useless in large scale PVP. Not just myself, but every infiltrator and scout out there for the 10+ years Daoc has been around. If anything, they are just as useful in large scale fights in addition to sapping people. You can take your time, find a caster in a keep when he isn't AE nuking nonstop, and go in and take him out. Or you can wait for the opportune time to take out a cleric. Having half a minute to do so isnt viable, at least not consistently.
So your wrong on both points that (1) perma stealth is a flawed mechanic, and (2) a rogue being able to assassinate people isn't extremely useful in large scale pvp.
I would agree that stun lock AND perma stealth isnt a good idea, but not perma stealth in and of itself. I think WoW combined stun lock and perma stealth, which is where I suppose everyone is coming from, just not myself.
But regardless I'll still play just because I enjoy the large 3 sided fights like inc Daoc.
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Another point, games do adapt to people in some cases. At least in larger numbers, how do you think things up getting nerfed? Because people complain via ingame tickets etc, hehe. Then the next patch you get a message saying XYZ skill will now only blah blah blah.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
Another point, games do adapt to people in some cases. At least in larger numbers, how do you think things up getting nerfed? Because people complain via ingame tickets etc, hehe. Then the next patch you get a message saying XYZ skill will now only blah blah blah.
Yes games do change other time, but that is only when issues crop up. If ArenaNet's Thief works for the game, then why would they need to change it? Just like if the gear equality works for the game's structured PvP, why would they need to add stat-driven gear progression for the people that want it.
Anyway, let's wait until we both can try out the Thief for ourselves, before we make our final judgements. But personally I think I would gain more enjoyment from shadow-stepping around in WvW, than simply sulking in the shadows and ganking unsuspecting foes.
@gainsvilleg-Took the words out my mouth. This didn't excite me either and this is the class I'm betting on. I hope this is only because it's a beta build and there is more to the thief than this. I hate the limited stealth mode, I hated it in FFXI and my rogue in WoW got me hooked because this limitation is non-exsistant. It's cool though I guess, it really forces people not to use stealth as a crutch which most people love to do.
I love the assassin aspect more than the range. I would rather have more emphasis on hand-to-hand, in-ur-face action and only use ranged options as a finisher or tie-breaker but that's just me. I love the "unload" ability I saw but it uses too much initiative IMO, leaves you limited under pressure but I know that's more-so a balance thing.
Comments
Yeah, I hear ya. Plenty of games with good stealth mechanics. I'm sorry GW2 won't be one of them. But for those that say its overpowered, statisically they actually don't lead the dps or kill boards in WoW or Rift for example. So, statisically, they are not overpowered.
They are overpowered if you gank unsuspecting noobs in open world, no doubt. But only jackasses do that. You know, the guys that give rogues a bad name. I NEVER jack noobs from stealth so don't blame all rogues for the jackasses that do.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
lol. they have some bad ass looking skills. they will still be the same OP rogue type class we've come acustomed to. at least imo.
I've got the straight edge.
one duel I saw with a thief vs mesmer the thief went invis at least 5 times. Everytime the thief would go stealtht the mesmer was left standing there bracing himself for the next burst attack. It was really fun to watch and a very dynamic fight.
It could be the bad assest class in the game that wasn't my point. The situations you can get yourself into in the open world as an assassin are some of the funnest I've had in an MMO. Sad face about GW2 abandoning us assassins.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I was in a party in Rift that killed teh defiant general in their city by using stealth and then teleporting the rest of us in. It took us a couple of night to do it because the first night to many defiant saw us in there tower.
I understand that some fun exploiting can be done with stealth but for the rest of the classes/player's its not fun to have no idea someone is close to you.
Being able to permanently avoid detection is just, just, just not fun for everyone facing that.
And I didnt greif the players i ganked leveling in swtor's. I just ganked them to see what playing a stealth class was like since i was told in every single guild and every mmo that perma stealth is not op.........I think it is. It's just to easy to always fight on your advantage.
Even in group play stealth is very powerful. stealth is incredible for baiting. 2 stealthers working togehter in vent is stupid op.
yeah, i have no idea what yur point was. i wasn't responing to one of yur posts. sorry if you don't like how they did thieves. maybe one of the traits will grant longer stealth.
I've got the straight edge.
That is my hope actually: that there will be a skill that allows it. People often forget how weak a rogue is in general. The top arena players are not rogues in WoW for instance. And WoW is a game many use as an example of rogues being overpowered. In Rift they rarely lead any of the statisical categories in PVP matches either. It is easy to SAY rogues are overpowered in those games, but the statistics say otherwise.
In WoW at one time long ago they were pretty powerful, but it was actually for their CC (stun lock) ability not their stealth and that CC ability was nerfed away ages ago.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I think Taugrim put it best why the typical Rogue Perma-stealth mechanic is so flawed.... WATCH HERE.
In the end, no MMORPG will be able to some exciting to watch stealth battles like this (and these are just beginners), if follow the generic perma stealth and stun-lock out of stealth mechanic that games like WoW, Rift, Aion & SW:TOR seem to follow.
"Stealing: Above their skill bar, all thieves have a special skill called Steal that can be used on enemies. It does not actually steal a real item from an opponent, but rather generates an appropriate environmental weapon based on the target."
What? So does this thief actually steal or not?
Yes, they can steal from just about any mob or player in the game. That is their special aspect of the profession (all professions have some sort of unique aspect to them). They have changed it up quite a bit so I'd be interested to see how it is now. The problem is that in the last press beta, hardly anyone made any videos or even wrote about the Thief. If I happen to get into the beta, it'll be the first profession I try.
I also like to stealth around exploring behind enemy lines. If it isn't permanent stealth I sure won't bother with the thief class.
Thief reminds me more of the GW assassin than any kind of rogue classes from games such as wow.
Please note the below post is about open world pvp (rvr) WvWvW, not arenas, duels, or battlegrounds:
I have to agree with the other assassin players here. I've played rogues as my main class for my entire time of playing MMO's since around 2001. Perma stealth is a must for rogues for open world pvp. Rogues are naturally squishy, so surprise is one of our biggest assets.
-Again, another guy made an great point, so many other classes have their "amazing" ability, like tanks getting full health back with whatever skill. Every class has their uber skill that restores all health, any-time stuns, etc. So the whole arguement about perma-stealth is unfair considering every other class has its ace-in-the-whole skill that other classes just don't have access to.
-Don't use the flawed arguement that perma-stealth will lead to tons and tons of stealth teams, and then eventually lead to packs of griefers. Those packs of team stealth players don't consistently earn enough rps/pts to justify continually doing it as a full time profession. If you don't get rps/rvr points, you won't get any stronger. So it will just be the same gimp stealths ganking random people until they get bored and leave, whilst your non-stealth character will go gain lots of points, and eventually you will get much stronger than them, and be able to own 2-3 at a time. So don't use the slippery slope arguement because it works both ways in that you will over time gain more points than them and over power the groups easily
-So removing perma stealth is just away to satisfy the handful of people who get jumped while stupidly making a B-line for whatever objective they have in mind. Well guess what, if you take the fastest, most frequented route, its going to be camped. Either group up or go another route
-But anyways, regardless, a stealther/rogue's biggest asset is surprise. I've played tons of games without perma stealth. 30-60 seconds is not enough time to find a good target, get behind enemy lines, and attack. THEN you have to consider you will be chased! After you are chased you stealth, but then they will be looking for you and they WON'T give up. And guess what your behind enemy lines and your stealth breaks because you were chased and didn't have enough time to get back or away. So speaking from years of experience 30 seconds-ish stealth is shaite. Its unreasonably to expect someone to strike out at a caster in the midst of a fight (who will be at the back or surrounded by tanks), then use that gimp stealth on a timer to get out. In a perfect scenario im sure someone with a rogue alt has done it therefore believe its possible often, but I'm just telling you that perfect scenario just doesntly consistenly come up
-The above point was just for zerg/group fights! This isnt even talking about open world random fights where the rogue NEEDS surprise to fight another player. This game is creating a situation where stealthers have to zerg or just not rvr in open world.
Actually Witch hunters in WAR had limited stealth so not a new concept by A Net sorry
Just as a follow up point, the limited stealth feature, in a roundabout way, is about convenience:
-Players want to run straight for whatever their destination is, and want to get there as fast as possible. When that fastest path possible to their destination is prevented and they can't get instant gratification then they complain. You see this all of the time being addressed by companies.
It starts out, if you get killed in open world pvp, you have to wait/run 15-20 minutes to get ported/run back to your destination. People don't like consequences for dying, so they complain, and in the end, can instantly arrive back at the fight spot within minutes/seconds and there is no consequences to dying mindlessly. Why, because "I need instant gratification, I want what I want as fast as possible, preferably right now". You want to remain in the fight? Don't get killed mindlessly.
Which brings me back to my original point, if you have perma stealth, and rogues are sapping reinforcements (which should be one of their main roles, that and killing casters in zerg fights), then those people can't have what they want. They can't go directly to point B. How hard is it to not take that bridge? Its easy just go around it and add 1-3 minutes to your route. But no, i have to mindlessly auto run to the keep, get jumped, and then complain and ruin a hunter/stalkers gaming experience so that perma-stealth is a no-no industry wide for open world PVP.
- and don't say Perma stealth characters want instant gratification as well. We have to spend 10-15 minutes waiting for that special straggler/lone target to come around. But it makes the game exciting and adds to the roleplay feel. I think in any war situation, routes/choke points with high traffic will be besieged with highwaymen etc.
You are wasting your time here bro, nothing GW2 does is wrong it is all amazing and innovattive, not to mention others games have and do use this same mechanic
I have no idea what point you're trying to make. If you don't like the class then you can play WOW, RIFT, SWTORS for traditional rogues.
No problem you have 3 huge titles that all use the perma stealth mechanic..........there you go. Have fun.
Yes, but none of those have 3 different factions/sides fighting one another. Secondly, those games don't have balanced rewards for open world kills. In those games, if you want to rack up pvp gear/skill points, you need to grind battlegrounds over and over rinse wash repeat.
Guild Wars 2 will actually have meaningful open world pvp. So no those prior 3 games won't work.
Thief (n): somebody who steals: somebody who steals something, especially one who intends to escape notice
Not seeing the thief here. Even the "Steal" ability is not an actual act of theft. I think Pirate would be a better name, or Assassin, or Bandit. There are a wide array of names that do the same thing this class does. Theiving isn't one of them.
Well in the end, you are simply wasting your time here, because ArenaNet will never add perma stealth to the Thief. Heck, they removed there longest stealth ability "Hide in the Shadows": a 30 second stealth on a 1min cooldown and I doubt they have any intention of bringing it back. It's simply because the Thief has not been designed around the flawed mechanic of perma stealth and being able to stunlock people in stealth and being useless out of stealth. Mainly because that kind of Rogue would be useless in large-scale PvP.
So if you want to enjoy the 3 faction PvP in GW2, then you'll simply have to adapt to the game, because the game won't simply adapt to you.
Hah, sorry, i have to disagree. Years of RVR in Daoc are the evidence that perma stealth is not flawed AND that type of rogue isn't useless in large scale PVP. Not just myself, but every infiltrator and scout out there for the 10+ years Daoc has been around. If anything, they are just as useful in large scale fights in addition to sapping people. You can take your time, find a caster in a keep when he isn't AE nuking nonstop, and go in and take him out. Or you can wait for the opportune time to take out a cleric. Having half a minute to do so isnt viable, at least not consistently.
So your wrong on both points that (1) perma stealth is a flawed mechanic, and (2) a rogue being able to assassinate people isn't extremely useful in large scale pvp.
I would agree that stun lock AND perma stealth isnt a good idea, but not perma stealth in and of itself. I think WoW combined stun lock and perma stealth, which is where I suppose everyone is coming from, just not myself.
But regardless I'll still play just because I enjoy the large 3 sided fights like inc Daoc.
Another point, games do adapt to people in some cases. At least in larger numbers, how do you think things up getting nerfed? Because people complain via ingame tickets etc, hehe. Then the next patch you get a message saying XYZ skill will now only blah blah blah.
Yes games do change other time, but that is only when issues crop up. If ArenaNet's Thief works for the game, then why would they need to change it? Just like if the gear equality works for the game's structured PvP, why would they need to add stat-driven gear progression for the people that want it.
Anyway, let's wait until we both can try out the Thief for ourselves, before we make our final judgements. But personally I think I would gain more enjoyment from shadow-stepping around in WvW, than simply sulking in the shadows and ganking unsuspecting foes.
@gainsvilleg-Took the words out my mouth. This didn't excite me either and this is the class I'm betting on. I hope this is only because it's a beta build and there is more to the thief than this. I hate the limited stealth mode, I hated it in FFXI and my rogue in WoW got me hooked because this limitation is non-exsistant. It's cool though I guess, it really forces people not to use stealth as a crutch which most people love to do.
I love the assassin aspect more than the range. I would rather have more emphasis on hand-to-hand, in-ur-face action and only use ranged options as a finisher or tie-breaker but that's just me. I love the "unload" ability I saw but it uses too much initiative IMO, leaves you limited under pressure but I know that's more-so a balance thing.
Perma stealth is a dumb mechanic. thank god they got rid of it. Deal with it ppl.