Some people over guildwars2guru whinning about offical forum taking people away from it.. I hope offcial forum is better moderated. Those moderators at guildwar2guru are too heavy handed.
I've never paid much attention at the moderators in gw2guru until today. Guru has been my place for most GW2 interviews and discussions. I'm just surprised to see such strong reaction from the announcement of an official forum. I do see where they are coming from, but can't they atleast wait and see how thought and research on the part of Anet would materialize
Guru Mod: all of the Guru crybabies, QQers and carebears will flood their forum with useless, uninformed dribble instead of wasting our time with it.
sounds like progress for Guru and a step back for ANet
Anet: And i am sure a lot of people might have to adjust their online behaviour, which is probably a good thing.
Guru Mod: if you simply ban everyone that acts like an asshat you won't have a community. You can't turn stupid into anything other than stupid..
Guru User: I disagree. If you ban everyone who cannot be civil in a discussion, you are left with... people who can be civil in a discussion. Which invites more people to discuss, if they feel their ideas will be met with respect.
Guru Mod: the problem here is that most of you have terrible ideas not worth discussing.
Guru User: I don't necessarily disagree, but don't you think that's more than a little condescending/insulting? I'm not saying everything needs to be sugarcoated to protect delicate egos, but a little civility rarely goes amiss...
Guru Mod: I don't work for ArenaNet. "treat everyone like they are a special unicorn that poops rainbows" is not in my job description. The fact of the matter is that the broad majority of discussions that take place on a forum are inane, mundane, usless dribble like "let's get a petition for more eye colors for the asura" or "I don't like x because it affects my ability to like y class" or "this game breaks immersion because it lacks blinking animations during combat".
A very quick way to alienate a community is to remove threads like this deeming them as useless as they actually are. Either ArenaNet can a) allow this inane, mundane, useless dribble and save all the carebears in carealot or b) delete it and alienate the community.
Guru User: I think you missed my point. I didn't say you had to treat people like rainbow-pooping unicorns; I also said that not everything had to be sugarcoated. What I did say was that a little civility doesn't hurt. If you want to close/delete a stupid thread -- and yes, I'm fully aware that most of the stuff on most forums is headdesk stupid -- then fine. Just close/delete it and be done with it. Open insults about how people are idiots and post dribble are, IMHO, unnecessary, unprofessional, and unbecoming in a moderator.
Just my two cents; I'm not looking for a fight.
Guru Mod: I believe that the fact that people take open insults as personal attacks proves they aren't very bright to begin with. IMHO, if you aren't a chin dribbling moron, you look past open insults to the point actually being made.
Anet: And just because official forums in the past have not been a nice place doesn't mean this is the way it has to be. Time for change
Guru Mod: As much as I have faith in you guys, I am unconvinced that you will be able to bend the entire internet to your will.
It's not just about stopping flaming either. That's the easy, straight forward part.
We have fairly lax quality standards due to having to cater for the lowest common denominator here (which is now your job I guess) and we still delete a whole world of threads due to low discussion quality.
And yeah, it makes us the bad guys in the eyes of a whole load of people, but we take the hit and those people go on loving anet and getting grumpy about mean old guru - but now that's in your hands. You get to be the ones who are faced with 1000 threads asking what your favourite sylvari eye colour is or petitioning arena net to add blinking into combat animations, and you get to be the bad guy who says "no, this is stupid so I'm going to close it".
Or you get to have a forum that's filled with the inane ramblings of people who think the "new thread" button is the gw2 equivalent of their facebook wall. A place that cannot be used for any serious discussion without wading through a plague of banality.
I personally don't think your moderators will be given the claws to make decisions about thread quality in the same way that an independent site can, but I will observe with interest!
Thank you for making our lives as moderators of guru easier, either way, and thank you all for your terrific support of this fansite during the pre-release phase. I hope you continue to post even when the official site is up!!
Thanks to Dookz for pulling the guru mods comments from their site ...
Did Guru staff really attack Arenanet for the decision? If so, wow, great way to prove the point that many of us have been making about Guru.
I'm just plain relieved.
I'm sure Arenanet will actively moderate the official forums, but I expect it will be done in a consistent, logical and non-arbitrary manner by relatively sane people.
No they did not attack Arenanet for the decision. From all the mod comments I read in the official post, It appears to me that they are simply skeptical if ArenaNet will live up to this quote "We want to set a new standard and make the Guild Wars 2 community a mature, friendly, helpful and inclusive one that is recognized throughout the industry as being so. With that goal, we will ensure that both our game and our forums reflect our standards, and we will evaluate our support for communities based on the standards they enforce upon themselves."
Nevertheless, they just wish ArenaNet the best of luck in trying to achieve what they promise and quiet a few of the mods will also be visiting the official GW2 forums to check how it is going.
One attack from the mod "Al Capowned":
"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faethorn
Interesting to read there will be an official forums, I look forward to what it's going to be like.
all of the Guru crybabies, QQers and carebears will flood their forum with useless, uninformed dribble instead of wasting our time with it.
sounds like progress for Guru and a step back for ANet
"Official' forums are way overrated. I'd be perfectly happy if they simply implemented a decent feedback system. I can't think of any reason why there has to be forums - especially in todays age with all the other options availablt for getting news out.
There is pretty much NEVER anything constructive debated on official forums. Simply trolls and anti-trolls going at it all day.
"Official' forums are way overrated. I'd be perfectly happy if they simply implemented a decent feedback system. I can't think of any reason why there has to be forums - especially in todays age with all the other options availablt for getting news out.
There is pretty much NEVER anything constructive debated on official forums. Simply trolls and anti-trolls going at it all day.
this is my thoughts and fears, but rereading the blog then reading the anet posts and argument from GW2Guru... I have more hope that the GW2 official forums WILL be different... but then again who knows. I can only hope they are up for delivering yet another promise regarding this game. Personally I think its to large a task and they are better off without official forums to babysit 24/7.
"Official' forums are way overrated. I'd be perfectly happy if they simply implemented a decent feedback system. I can't think of any reason why there has to be forums - especially in todays age with all the other options availablt for getting news out.
There is pretty much NEVER anything constructive debated on official forums. Simply trolls and anti-trolls going at it all day.
/shrug
I've used them to get a feel and camaraderie for those on my server in games that had server forums. I've also used them at times to join guilds. Other times just to get to know the overall community for the game in general. There are valid points made at times on them worth debating. Sometimes with feedback from developers. Hell, I've used them for constructive matters many times for several different avenues.
Do they also contain what you mention? No doubt but frankly they tend to be as constructive or productive as you want them to be from my experience.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Let us also check how the blue-named "Kattar" reacted to the news (blue name is a staff member, I presume?):
Quote he replied to:
Originally Posted by Corkscrew24
This could take a significant user base from guru :L
His reply: "And yet none of us are worried"
----
Already with that reply, Kattar, demonstrates a major hint of either hybris or massive hatred for significant parts of their own community. He could have done an insightful first comment on the subject, but no, that's what he started with.
----
Then his next post comes after:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdinaryOwl
Glad to see that they're aware of how crappy WOW's forums are and are actively planning to take measures to prevent that. It will be interesting to see how they plan to keep the community standards up.
His reply: "I just wonder how they plan doing it. Short of taking the Bioware route."
---
It is evident based on his two first replies, that he is not liking the decision one bit and that he is treating Arenanet as if they were an incompetent child when it comes to forums. We would label a such person as a "hater" here in MMORPG.
Pure negativity without a hint of positivity in his first two posts. Not a good impression.
---
Let's go back to the mod "al capowned":
He replies to following quote
Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein
And i am sure a lot of people might have to adjust their online behaviour, which is probably a good thing.
with: "if you simply ban everyone that acts like an asshat you won't have a community. You can't turn stupid into anything other than stupid"
Is it just me who finds it unsuitable to have a moderator that hates a such significant part of the community he is supposed to serve?
@InFaVilla yea its pretty shitty how they are acting but after the nonsense regarding CynicalBrits wife.. I am not surprised. I have gone from trying to read their forums for info to rarely popping over to glance at the Q&A section.
And the Guru mods show their true colors. Al capowned (in the purple and blue sections of Dookz' post) is exactly the sort of "cool kid on the internet" Martin is referring to: exactly the kind of person that will be banned from the official forums. Chalky (in the red) isn't nearly as rude but shares the opinion that deleting threads arbitrarily is justified.
Their warfare on "low quality threads" is disgusting. There is no rule on the site that states threads must be approved by a moderator as "discussion-worthy" unless they recently added one. That is not their place to judge. If there is a thread on sylvari eye color that manages to last for 20 pages then so be it. Let people discuss what they want. Natural selection will ensure the popular, "discussion-worthy" topics thrive and the useless posts fall off the front page before a day passes.
Good to see them fall.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
And the Guru mods show their true colors. Al capowned (in the purple and blue sections of Dookz' post) is exactly the sort of "cool kid on the internet" Martin is referring to: exactly the kind of person that will be banned from the official forums. Chalky (in the red) isn't nearly as rude but shares the opinion that deleting threads arbitrarily is justified.
Their warfare on "low quality threads" is disgusting. There is no rule on the site that states threads must be approved by a moderator as "discussion-worthy" unless they recently added one. That is not their place to judge. If there is a thread on sylvari eye color that manages to last for 20 pages then so be it. Let people discuss what they want. Natural selection will ensure the popular, "discussion-worthy" topics thrive and the useless posts fall off the front page before a day passes.
Good to see them fall.
this, heh just remembered another gem from that site... a question thread was locked because it wasn't about GW2.. only it was. The guy wanted info or justification for working on his HoM in GW1 for GW2 content. They closed it because people were giving the guy tips...
Official forums aren't about news, they are about community. Arenanet seems to get this, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they have in store for us there.
I'm hoping there will be server forums and very specific sub-forums, which tend to diffuse general negativity, while keeping discussion focused and generally on-topic.
It is possible to have official forums that foster community!
"Let me point out the two biggest changes in the ways we interact with our communities between the original Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 right up front: we will have official forums, and we will not have a traditional fansite program." -- Martin Kerstein
I'm sure some of the haters will find yet another way to hate on the game. It doesnt matter Anet can do no right in the eyes of some on this board.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
And i am sure a lot of people might have to adjust their online behaviour, which is probably a good thing.
with: "if you simply ban everyone that acts like an asshat you won't have a community. You can't turn stupid into anything other than stupid"
Is it just me who finds it unsuitable to have a moderator that hates a such significant part of the community he is supposed to serve?
wow was that really said? I cannot see how Anet had a choice of continuing to have an "official" unofficial forum where the moderators felt this way about the playerbase. It really DOES reflect badly on Anet as well. It makes me wonder about the motivation of such sites to even be involved with the community at all. Fansites have been around for so long and used to be built by just that, FANS. People who were willing to help people out for nothing in return and places where the only stupid question was the question not asked.
Kind of sad really I'm glad I have never bothered to sign up there.
The thread really just shows their attitudes, and what bothers me most of all is how they disregard the vast majority of their own userbase, I've never seen a group of moderators show such open loathing for their community. And not only that, but there's hubris, as was mentioned. A sentiment posted by Al Capowned and vehemently backed up by Chalky and Feathermoon is that if you're not posting what they want to read, then you're posting inane, asinine banter and dribble. Yes, dribble.
Allow me to put this into context: Their egos have become so large that if you don't agree with what they think and play up to their interests, then you're some kind of ... lesser creature. See, that's exactly the sort of attitude that a trained moderator knows how to avoid. The proof is there in their news thread about this, go and read it, please don't just take my word for it.
And apparently, all us "carebears," all of us lesser creatures who disagree with their moderating antics can go and post irrelevant, inane threads over on "carealot" (the official forums). This just goes to show what I've always said: Anything they don't like, they edit/delete/lock, and often without a reason. I posted a thread a while back about a discussion that I found really interesting, regarding game mechanics versus details (the hyena thread). That would have been interesting to weigh in on. But no, that was one of those 'inane' threads that wasn't fit for Guru.
I feel so vindicated. Because everything I've ever said about them is now shown to be true.
It's just this massive relief. For the first time in a long while I feel like a massive cancer has been cut away from the body of the Guild Wars community. This will be all for the better.
And not only that, but yeah, they continued to treat Martin like shit. Poor Martin.
I mean... it's their site, I get and respect that, you know? But the way they've moderated it means that they've separated people into two classes:
1.) "The pros!" The pros, dude, they're so PRO. The cultural elite. The group that Al Capowned likes to think he's a part of. This group only talks about lore accuracy and game mechanics. They want threads that bring up their own concerns and discuss those alone, and once the pros have made their decision, you'd better not create another thread or necro the old one! Oh goodness gracious no!
2.) "The carebears." This is the group that they seem to treat as subhuman troglodytes. These are the people who haven't turned the whole ordeal into some kind of insane, almost sexual fetish. So you have roleplayers in this group, and people with a more casual interest in the game. All of these are viewed as lesser people. People unable to formulate an intelligent opinion. Oh, and there was one thread about how the player models didn't blink. This was an important aesthetic consideration for one roleplayer and they wanted to try to poke ArenaNet about it to get their art guys to talk about it. But no, this was deemed 'asinine' by the PROS. And as such it was locked.
And that's exactly the problem. Any community that treats a group of people like that is a cancer.
A little dignity goes a long way. As a moderator, if you treat people right, they'll do the same in kind. But if you treat them like they're less than human, then they remember, and they never forget.
Like I've said elsewhere... we've all got a sense of fairness ingrained into us as living beings. We don't like things like cheating or inequality. And there will be many people who wouldn't be able to read over Guru's forums without getting an uneasy stomach. It's just genuinely unpleasant, insidiously so.
The official forums will likely kill off Guru 2. And the vast majority (not the PROS) won't miss it.
I've been saying this for a long time, too. I saw it before most people. And I've also been saying that with the insanely egotistical and schizophrenic (paranoid delusions) attitdues of these moderators... if ArenaNet went live wiht Guild Wars 2 with GW2G as their recommended forum, it would have been an absolute PR disaster. Fecal matter would have hit the fan.
I just feel really vindicated to see it out in the open. So now everyone sees it and I'm not just some crazed, lone rebel.
Originally posted by MwynForever wow was that really said? I cannot see how Anet had a choice of continuing to have an "official" unofficial forum where the moderators felt this way about the playerbase. It really DOES reflect badly on Anet as well. It makes me wonder about the motivation of such sites to even be involved with the community at all. Fansites have been around for so long and used to be built by just that, FANS. People who were willing to help people out for nothing in return and places where the only stupid question was the question not asked. Kind of sad really I'm glad I have never bothered to sign up there.
Just look at the guy's posting history. He's always like that. He would have been banned from this site several times, possibly permanently, with the way he posts on Guru.
The Guru mods are out of control, and it's showing now more than ever. ArenaNet made the right choice. Look at Martin's posting history, too. He has to calm down the userbase at every update, and now he's stuck arguing with the site moderators. I wouldn't be surprised if he never touches the site again once the official boards are running.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
[mod edit] It will be nice to have an official forum. I don't even care if anet runs it as poorly as GW2G does, as long as I know the person that is doing the moderating is a paid employee that has protocols to follow.
I love how some GW2G mods are acting hostile towards anet and others are acting like it will HELP gw2g when they know damn well it will make their forums a ghost town because their moderators are notorious for being trash.
I am glad anet realized how awful gw2g is and took the effort to make an official forum that represents their community in a much more professional way.
The thread really just shows their attitudes, and what bothers me most of all is how they disregard the vast majority of their own userbase, I've never seen a group of moderators show such open loathing for their community. And not only that, but there's hubris, as was mentioned. A sentiment posted by Al Capowned and vehemently backed up by Chalky and Feathermoon is that if you're not posting what they want to read, then you're posting inane, asinine banter and dribble. Yes, dribble.
Allow me to put this into context: Their egos have become so large that if you don't agree with what they think and play up to their interests, then you're some kind of ... lesser creature. See, that's exactly the sort of attitude that a trained moderator knows how to avoid. The proof is there in their news thread about this, go and read it, please don't just take my word for it.
And apparently, all us "carebears," all of us lesser creatures who disagree with their moderating antics can go and post irrelevant, inane threads over on "carealot" (the official forums). This just goes to show what I've always said: Anything they don't like, they edit/delete/lock, and often without a reason. I posted a thread a while back about a discussion that I found really interesting, regarding game mechanics versus details (the hyena thread). That would have been interesting to weigh in on. But no, that was one of those 'inane' threads that wasn't fit for Guru.
I feel so vindicated. Because everything I've ever said about them is now shown to be true.
It's just this massive relief. For the first time in a long while I feel like a massive cancer has been cut away from the body of the Guild Wars community. This will be all for the better.
And not only that, but yeah, they continued to treat Martin like shit. Poor Martin.
I mean... it's their site, I get and respect that, you know? But the way they've moderated it means that they've separated people into two classes:
1.) "The pros!" The pros, dude, they're so PRO. The cultural elite. The group that Al Capowned likes to think he's a part of. This group only talks about lore accuracy and game mechanics. They want threads that bring up their own concerns and discuss those alone, and once the pros have made their decision, you'd better not create another thread or necro the old one! Oh goodness gracious no!
2.) "The carebears." This is the group that they seem to treat as subhuman troglodytes. These are the people who haven't turned the whole ordeal into some kind of insane, almost sexual fetish. So you have roleplayers in this group, and people with a more casual interest in the game. All of these are viewed as lesser people. People unable to formulate an intelligent opinion. Oh, and there was one thread about how the player models didn't blink. This was an important aesthetic consideration for one roleplayer and they wanted to try to poke ArenaNet about it to get their art guys to talk about it. But no, this was deemed 'asinine' by the PROS. And as such it was locked.
And that's exactly the problem. Any community that treats a group of people like that is a cancer.
A little dignity goes a long way. As a moderator, if you treat people right, they'll do the same in kind. But if you treat them like they're less than human, then they remember, and they never forget.
Like I've said elsewhere... we've all got a sense of fairness ingrained into us as living beings. We don't like things like cheating or inequality. And there will be many people who wouldn't be able to read over Guru's forums without getting an uneasy stomach. It's just genuinely unpleasant, insidiously so.
The official forums will likely kill off Guru 2. And the vast majority (not the PROS) won't miss it.
I've been saying this for a long time, too. I saw it before most people. And I've also been saying that with the insanely egotistical and schizophrenic (paranoid delusions) attitdues of these moderators... if ArenaNet went live wiht Guild Wars 2 with GW2G as their recommended forum, it would have been an absolute PR disaster. Fecal matter would have hit the fan.
I just feel really vindicated to see it out in the open. So now everyone sees it and I'm not just some crazed, lone rebel.
I've gone back and read through the thread in question. I'm shocked to be honest. I think maybe some of the comments have been removed also? Can someone verify? Anyway it brings me to this question. If you do not like people, why work in public relations of any sort? Because I see a moderator of a "fan" forum as someone working or at least volunteering in a public setting. I don't know the answer to my own question. Maybe that makes me dumb but I just can't wrap my head around what acceptable answer there might be. I know people have at times complained about mmorpg.com. I have been around far longer then this particular username I can assure you and if they ever treated people with this contempt I would have found somewhere else to hang out long since. Maybe it's different here as it's a multi gaming information site, I don't know. I've also been a part of fan forums for some long while and moderated a few. If you don't find it fun and interesting, find another passtime. Seriously :O
Anyway, I reiterate. I am VERY glad anet has gone down the route of an official forum and I hope people will help to make it a success. And NO I don't work for anet, mmorpg or any other gaming company.
@ Shroom Mage
ok I've read through a few pages of them. Not impressed and I wouldn't have stayed myself but again I never signed up to begin with. I admit to having run across their threads while doing searches on help for particular missions in GW1 while I was trying to h/h my way through all the campaigns and I didn't find things particularly useful there. It seemed necroposting is encouraged even for threads from 5 years ago. Crazy. I don't know how a user in 2012 is expected to get a clarification on a statement made by a user 5 years ago. Is that user even around anymore?
ANYWAY, the more I read, the happier I am we will have an official place to ask questions. Even dumb ones! I will no doubt ask my fair share
Post from Guru Moderator Feathermore may shed some light on why the mods reacted the way they did. You could dissect alot from here...
I am glad that I come across to posters in such a positive manner (really I was under the impression noone even knew who I was as I don't post much anymore). And to these people who somehow (I literally have no clue how you go this idea) developed the impression that Guru protects or is biased towards fanboys... I am sorry? I personally delete around four times as many "fanboi" posts than I do critical posts. I spend time to try and message critical posts that I have been forced to remove in order to try and help them post in a manner that follows our rules. If anything (and I don't actually do this) you could accuse me of protecting critics.
Moderator bias is impossible to avoid. Even on official forums. You don't try to get rid of the bias from the moderators, you counteract it by having a diverse team that works together. Moderators with different biases and opinions serve to balance each other out. Questionable decisions get discussed and acted upon afterwards. It doesn't work the way that some posters are making it seem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhieron
snip
Irate grumblings of a bully? Really? I came across like that? I apologize if I did because I don't even feel anything close to that.
I support Anet's attempt at the community. My personal experiences with the community lend me the knowledge and experience (something the vast majority of posters here do NOT have) to comment on just how difficult an undertaking Anet is setting themselves up for. My post may have come across as irate because I was both confused and insulted by Martin referring to the task as "easy" when it decidedly is anything but. (the Yellow Bolded contradicts a quote from Anet who posted in the same thread....Martin: "Just to make this point clear: Many of us have been around gaming communities for a long time, as players as well as professionals. We are not naive. There was a lot of research and thought behind what we want to achieve.")
If Anet can actually deliver, then all the more power to them. I just hate seeing something that so many of us have dedicated so much time an effort to over years referred to as "easy." And several other moderators were struck by this comment as well which may be what you are sensing.
I think that Anet could learn a lot from Guru. And yes that is a shameless self-pat-on-the-back. I really feel that we do a good job at what we set out to do. And that is to create a high level discussion forum. Some posters feel that this forum is their own personal Facebook wall, and they get upset when we tell them that it isn't. We built our own little subset of a community, and I am proud of what I have contributed to this. Heck, knowing that a good deal of you will probably become regular posters on the official forum makes me want to say "go forth my minions."
From Arenanet blog, Martin mentions this....
....With that goal, we will ensure that both our game and our forums reflect our standards, and we will evaluate our support for communities based on the standards they enforce upon themselves....
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
Well obvious question. Will this forum have a search function or will we be told it will and then 3 months LATE IT STILL DOES not..cough cough other game
Also I will qq if these forums are not dyanmic and change every time I view them
Whoa, approximately 4.5 hours prior to this post you said,
"Hating on TOR is so last month. It is kind of cliche' now and hipster. The game has a playerbase who likes the game and god forbid they be permitted to enjoy it. The problem is the band wagon fans and leeches who jump from mmo to mmo."
Your cough cough is obviously referring to SWTOR (game is 3 months old, dosen't have a forum search function and is a common target of your flames). [mod edit]
What none of you have considered is whether or not the staff condones Al's comments. Personally, I found his behaviour deplorable and have told him that it can't happen again. If it does, he can find a different site to moderate.
Just thought I'd throw this information out there since you guys have no way of knowing what goes on "behind the scenes."
What none of you have considered is whether or not the staff condones Al's comments. Personally, I found his behaviour deplorable and have told him that it can't happen again. If it does, he can find a different site to moderate.
Just thought I'd throw this information out there since you guys have no way of knowing what goes on "behind the scenes."
Cheers
That's ok the fact that he is a mod in the first place, along with some of the other terrible mods says enough about the scenes.
Interesting in how this has turned into a hate on Guru thread.
Going by what Martin has said I think some folks are going to be surprised when they are banned from the official forums. Anyway, it's up to us to provide a nice community. That is their goal anyway. Personally I don't see it happening but hopefully I'm wrong.
What none of you have considered is whether or not the staff condones Al's comments. Personally, I found his behaviour deplorable and have told him that it can't happen again. If it does, he can find a different site to moderate.
Just thought I'd throw this information out there since you guys have no way of knowing what goes on "behind the scenes."
Cheers
What should have been done is after he made his FIRST post regarding this was a boot from site. You cannot condone or coddle the bad actions of those that are trying to keep your site calm and quiet. Perhaps your mods on guru should spend more time removing nasty responses to Q&A instead of locking threads there that are helpful.
Comments
Some people over guildwars2guru whinning about offical forum taking people away from it.. I hope offcial forum is better moderated. Those moderators at guildwar2guru are too heavy handed.
One attack from the mod "Al Capowned":
"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faethorn
Interesting to read there will be an official forums, I look forward to what it's going to be like.
all of the Guru crybabies, QQers and carebears will flood their forum with useless, uninformed dribble instead of wasting our time with it.
sounds like progress for Guru and a step back for ANet
"
"Official' forums are way overrated. I'd be perfectly happy if they simply implemented a decent feedback system. I can't think of any reason why there has to be forums - especially in todays age with all the other options availablt for getting news out.
There is pretty much NEVER anything constructive debated on official forums. Simply trolls and anti-trolls going at it all day.
this is my thoughts and fears, but rereading the blog then reading the anet posts and argument from GW2Guru... I have more hope that the GW2 official forums WILL be different... but then again who knows. I can only hope they are up for delivering yet another promise regarding this game. Personally I think its to large a task and they are better off without official forums to babysit 24/7.
/shrug
I've used them to get a feel and camaraderie for those on my server in games that had server forums. I've also used them at times to join guilds. Other times just to get to know the overall community for the game in general. There are valid points made at times on them worth debating. Sometimes with feedback from developers. Hell, I've used them for constructive matters many times for several different avenues.
Do they also contain what you mention? No doubt but frankly they tend to be as constructive or productive as you want them to be from my experience.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Let us also check how the blue-named "Kattar" reacted to the news (blue name is a staff member, I presume?):
Quote he replied to:
Originally Posted by Corkscrew24
This could take a significant user base from guru :L
His reply: "And yet none of us are worried"
----
Already with that reply, Kattar, demonstrates a major hint of either hybris or massive hatred for significant parts of their own community. He could have done an insightful first comment on the subject, but no, that's what he started with.
----
Then his next post comes after:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdinaryOwl
Glad to see that they're aware of how crappy WOW's forums are and are actively planning to take measures to prevent that. It will be interesting to see how they plan to keep the community standards up.
His reply: "I just wonder how they plan doing it. Short of taking the Bioware route."
---
It is evident based on his two first replies, that he is not liking the decision one bit and that he is treating Arenanet as if they were an incompetent child when it comes to forums. We would label a such person as a "hater" here in MMORPG.
Pure negativity without a hint of positivity in his first two posts. Not a good impression.
---
Let's go back to the mod "al capowned":
He replies to following quote
Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein
And i am sure a lot of people might have to adjust their online behaviour, which is probably a good thing.
with: "if you simply ban everyone that acts like an asshat you won't have a community. You can't turn stupid into anything other than stupid"
Is it just me who finds it unsuitable to have a moderator that hates a such significant part of the community he is supposed to serve?
@InFaVilla yea its pretty shitty how they are acting but after the nonsense regarding CynicalBrits wife.. I am not surprised. I have gone from trying to read their forums for info to rarely popping over to glance at the Q&A section.
And the Guru mods show their true colors. Al capowned (in the purple and blue sections of Dookz' post) is exactly the sort of "cool kid on the internet" Martin is referring to: exactly the kind of person that will be banned from the official forums. Chalky (in the red) isn't nearly as rude but shares the opinion that deleting threads arbitrarily is justified.
Their warfare on "low quality threads" is disgusting. There is no rule on the site that states threads must be approved by a moderator as "discussion-worthy" unless they recently added one. That is not their place to judge. If there is a thread on sylvari eye color that manages to last for 20 pages then so be it. Let people discuss what they want. Natural selection will ensure the popular, "discussion-worthy" topics thrive and the useless posts fall off the front page before a day passes.
Good to see them fall.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
this, heh just remembered another gem from that site... a question thread was locked because it wasn't about GW2.. only it was. The guy wanted info or justification for working on his HoM in GW1 for GW2 content. They closed it because people were giving the guy tips...
Official forums aren't about news, they are about community. Arenanet seems to get this, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they have in store for us there.
I'm hoping there will be server forums and very specific sub-forums, which tend to diffuse general negativity, while keeping discussion focused and generally on-topic.
It is possible to have official forums that foster community!
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I'm sure some of the haters will find yet another way to hate on the game. It doesnt matter Anet can do no right in the eyes of some on this board.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
wow was that really said? I cannot see how Anet had a choice of continuing to have an "official" unofficial forum where the moderators felt this way about the playerbase. It really DOES reflect badly on Anet as well. It makes me wonder about the motivation of such sites to even be involved with the community at all. Fansites have been around for so long and used to be built by just that, FANS. People who were willing to help people out for nothing in return and places where the only stupid question was the question not asked.
I'm glad I have never bothered to sign up there.
Kind of sad really
One of life's lil hand grenades
I'm still elated, to be honest.
The thread really just shows their attitudes, and what bothers me most of all is how they disregard the vast majority of their own userbase, I've never seen a group of moderators show such open loathing for their community. And not only that, but there's hubris, as was mentioned. A sentiment posted by Al Capowned and vehemently backed up by Chalky and Feathermoon is that if you're not posting what they want to read, then you're posting inane, asinine banter and dribble. Yes, dribble.
Allow me to put this into context: Their egos have become so large that if you don't agree with what they think and play up to their interests, then you're some kind of ... lesser creature. See, that's exactly the sort of attitude that a trained moderator knows how to avoid. The proof is there in their news thread about this, go and read it, please don't just take my word for it.
And apparently, all us "carebears," all of us lesser creatures who disagree with their moderating antics can go and post irrelevant, inane threads over on "carealot" (the official forums). This just goes to show what I've always said: Anything they don't like, they edit/delete/lock, and often without a reason. I posted a thread a while back about a discussion that I found really interesting, regarding game mechanics versus details (the hyena thread). That would have been interesting to weigh in on. But no, that was one of those 'inane' threads that wasn't fit for Guru.
I feel so vindicated. Because everything I've ever said about them is now shown to be true.
It's just this massive relief. For the first time in a long while I feel like a massive cancer has been cut away from the body of the Guild Wars community. This will be all for the better.
And not only that, but yeah, they continued to treat Martin like shit. Poor Martin.
I mean... it's their site, I get and respect that, you know? But the way they've moderated it means that they've separated people into two classes:
1.) "The pros!" The pros, dude, they're so PRO. The cultural elite. The group that Al Capowned likes to think he's a part of. This group only talks about lore accuracy and game mechanics. They want threads that bring up their own concerns and discuss those alone, and once the pros have made their decision, you'd better not create another thread or necro the old one! Oh goodness gracious no!
2.) "The carebears." This is the group that they seem to treat as subhuman troglodytes. These are the people who haven't turned the whole ordeal into some kind of insane, almost sexual fetish. So you have roleplayers in this group, and people with a more casual interest in the game. All of these are viewed as lesser people. People unable to formulate an intelligent opinion. Oh, and there was one thread about how the player models didn't blink. This was an important aesthetic consideration for one roleplayer and they wanted to try to poke ArenaNet about it to get their art guys to talk about it. But no, this was deemed 'asinine' by the PROS. And as such it was locked.
And that's exactly the problem. Any community that treats a group of people like that is a cancer.
A little dignity goes a long way. As a moderator, if you treat people right, they'll do the same in kind. But if you treat them like they're less than human, then they remember, and they never forget.
Like I've said elsewhere... we've all got a sense of fairness ingrained into us as living beings. We don't like things like cheating or inequality. And there will be many people who wouldn't be able to read over Guru's forums without getting an uneasy stomach. It's just genuinely unpleasant, insidiously so.
The official forums will likely kill off Guru 2. And the vast majority (not the PROS) won't miss it.
---
@MwynForever
Yep, pretty much.
I've been saying this for a long time, too. I saw it before most people. And I've also been saying that with the insanely egotistical and schizophrenic (paranoid delusions) attitdues of these moderators... if ArenaNet went live wiht Guild Wars 2 with GW2G as their recommended forum, it would have been an absolute PR disaster. Fecal matter would have hit the fan.
I just feel really vindicated to see it out in the open. So now everyone sees it and I'm not just some crazed, lone rebel.
Just look at the guy's posting history. He's always like that. He would have been banned from this site several times, possibly permanently, with the way he posts on Guru.
The Guru mods are out of control, and it's showing now more than ever. ArenaNet made the right choice. Look at Martin's posting history, too. He has to calm down the userbase at every update, and now he's stuck arguing with the site moderators. I wouldn't be surprised if he never touches the site again once the official boards are running.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
[mod edit] It will be nice to have an official forum. I don't even care if anet runs it as poorly as GW2G does, as long as I know the person that is doing the moderating is a paid employee that has protocols to follow.
I love how some GW2G mods are acting hostile towards anet and others are acting like it will HELP gw2g when they know damn well it will make their forums a ghost town because their moderators are notorious for being trash.
I am glad anet realized how awful gw2g is and took the effort to make an official forum that represents their community in a much more professional way.
[mod edit]
@Dream Chaser
I've gone back and read through the thread in question. I'm shocked to be honest. I think maybe some of the comments have been removed also? Can someone verify? Anyway it brings me to this question. If you do not like people, why work in public relations of any sort? Because I see a moderator of a "fan" forum as someone working or at least volunteering in a public setting. I don't know the answer to my own question. Maybe that makes me dumb but I just can't wrap my head around what acceptable answer there might be. I know people have at times complained about mmorpg.com. I have been around far longer then this particular username I can assure you and if they ever treated people with this contempt I would have found somewhere else to hang out long since. Maybe it's different here as it's a multi gaming information site, I don't know. I've also been a part of fan forums for some long while and moderated a few. If you don't find it fun and interesting, find another passtime. Seriously :O
Anyway, I reiterate. I am VERY glad anet has gone down the route of an official forum and I hope people will help to make it a success. And NO I don't work for anet, mmorpg or any other gaming company.
@ Shroom Mage
ok I've read through a few pages of them. Not impressed and I wouldn't have stayed myself but again I never signed up to begin with. I admit to having run across their threads while doing searches on help for particular missions in GW1 while I was trying to h/h my way through all the campaigns and I didn't find things particularly useful there. It seemed necroposting is encouraged even for threads from 5 years ago. Crazy. I don't know how a user in 2012 is expected to get a clarification on a statement made by a user 5 years ago. Is that user even around anymore?
ANYWAY, the more I read, the happier I am we will have an official place to ask questions. Even dumb ones! I will no doubt ask my fair share
One of life's lil hand grenades
I like the liberty of no profanity filter I enjoy on this website.
Fucking love it
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
Post from Guru Moderator Feathermore may shed some light on why the mods reacted the way they did. You could dissect alot from here...
I am glad that I come across to posters in such a positive manner (really I was under the impression noone even knew who I was as I don't post much anymore). And to these people who somehow (I literally have no clue how you go this idea) developed the impression that Guru protects or is biased towards fanboys... I am sorry? I personally delete around four times as many "fanboi" posts than I do critical posts. I spend time to try and message critical posts that I have been forced to remove in order to try and help them post in a manner that follows our rules. If anything (and I don't actually do this) you could accuse me of protecting critics.
Moderator bias is impossible to avoid. Even on official forums. You don't try to get rid of the bias from the moderators, you counteract it by having a diverse team that works together. Moderators with different biases and opinions serve to balance each other out. Questionable decisions get discussed and acted upon afterwards. It doesn't work the way that some posters are making it seem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhieron
snip
Irate grumblings of a bully? Really? I came across like that? I apologize if I did because I don't even feel anything close to that.
I support Anet's attempt at the community. My personal experiences with the community lend me the knowledge and experience (something the vast majority of posters here do NOT have) to comment on just how difficult an undertaking Anet is setting themselves up for. My post may have come across as irate because I was both confused and insulted by Martin referring to the task as "easy" when it decidedly is anything but. (the Yellow Bolded contradicts a quote from Anet who posted in the same thread....Martin: "Just to make this point clear: Many of us have been around gaming communities for a long time, as players as well as professionals. We are not naive. There was a lot of research and thought behind what we want to achieve.")
If Anet can actually deliver, then all the more power to them. I just hate seeing something that so many of us have dedicated so much time an effort to over years referred to as "easy." And several other moderators were struck by this comment as well which may be what you are sensing.
I think that Anet could learn a lot from Guru. And yes that is a shameless self-pat-on-the-back. I really feel that we do a good job at what we set out to do. And that is to create a high level discussion forum. Some posters feel that this forum is their own personal Facebook wall, and they get upset when we tell them that it isn't. We built our own little subset of a community, and I am proud of what I have contributed to this. Heck, knowing that a good deal of you will probably become regular posters on the official forum makes me want to say "go forth my minions."
From Arenanet blog, Martin mentions this....
....With that goal, we will ensure that both our game and our forums reflect our standards, and we will evaluate our support for communities based on the standards they enforce upon themselves....
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
Whoa, approximately 4.5 hours prior to this post you said,
"Hating on TOR is so last month. It is kind of cliche' now and hipster. The game has a playerbase who likes the game and god forbid they be permitted to enjoy it. The problem is the band wagon fans and leeches who jump from mmo to mmo."
Link: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4824474#4824474
Your cough cough is obviously referring to SWTOR (game is 3 months old, dosen't have a forum search function and is a common target of your flames). [mod edit]
If you're going to troll somone, do it right.
What none of you have considered is whether or not the staff condones Al's comments. Personally, I found his behaviour deplorable and have told him that it can't happen again. If it does, he can find a different site to moderate.
Just thought I'd throw this information out there since you guys have no way of knowing what goes on "behind the scenes."
Cheers
That's ok the fact that he is a mod in the first place, along with some of the other terrible mods says enough about the scenes.
Interesting in how this has turned into a hate on Guru thread.
Going by what Martin has said I think some folks are going to be surprised when they are banned from the official forums. Anyway, it's up to us to provide a nice community. That is their goal anyway. Personally I don't see it happening but hopefully I'm wrong.
What should have been done is after he made his FIRST post regarding this was a boot from site. You cannot condone or coddle the bad actions of those that are trying to keep your site calm and quiet. Perhaps your mods on guru should spend more time removing nasty responses to Q&A instead of locking threads there that are helpful.