Blimey, another 'SWTOR is substandard' thread? I agree with everything you say OP, your opinions and gripes are fairly standard after the honeymoon period is over but... *shhh* don't tell the people who are still in the 'oooh we get to play with lightsabres' phase of their SWTOR experience, they tend to get upset when opinions of the game are less than glowing.
Bioware believes they can make a WoW clone which emphasizes Alt grinding. There are 3 reasons this is a recipe for failure
1- 90+% of the content you will do on an alt of the same faction is identical. Once you hit level cap its exactly the same.
2. Due to hard factions, if your main is on the Republic side (especially if your guild is as well) then you are completely cut-off from your guild and friends on the opposite faction with a Empire alt. This encourages people to only roll alts with the same faction which only makes problem #1 all the more obvious.
3- Most gamers become invested in their mains. Many of them are completely uninterested in alts in the first place. So a game which promotes playing alts to keep you subbed is going to appeal far less to these gamers as one which provides lots of character progression and end-game content (which SWTOR lacks).
I have a feeling that Bioware hedging their bets on MMO gamers being interested in rolling tons of alts is ging to backfire massively.
I think where Bioware failed is when they took "What they do best" and try to merge it into an MMO.
Problem is, I don't think anyone designing SWTOR was really a hardcore MMO gamer. Or they would have known that SPRPG features are in opposition to MMORPG features.
Adding more SPRPG features to an MMORPG, is self defeating. What this game ended up with is a Tug-O-War within it's own mechanics. It won't get very far that way.
People are just pissed that despite having plenty of funding, a solid Dev house, well loved IP that SWTOR should have been one of the most amazing titles of all time.
Instead what was delivered is unwhelming in more areas than it excels in so the backlash is severe.
Let us not forget that a majority of the posters on mmorpg.com are also tired of mmorpgs and are looking for each new title to satiate their overblown expectations. Many complaints here, in general not just TOR, are about the mechanics of the very genre.
For some obscure reason there are some here that expect every game to be tailor made to their exact wants and expectations, any deviance from that is met with the illogical conclusion that the title sucks and deserves to fail. If you spend 3 years watching and waiting for a game to reach gold status you are only going to be disappointed.
Does TOR suck? For some yes totally, for others no. One thing for sure, the game has generated a lot of interest looking at the forum traffic.
Most of the negativity about the game comes from, once again, that vocal few who only play a game for its "end game" content.
Are there bugs & other things that should have been caught earlier? Maybe, but with the sheer amount of things to do in a MMO you can never account for everything people will do, it is dam near impossible.
As for the end gamers who space barred their way through cut scenes & hit 50 in a couple days, a week, 2 weeks, whatever, sorry guys & gals, this game is not for you. You missed the entire point. In the words of Obi-Wan, /waves hand..."You can go about your business....move along."
As for the end gamers who space barred their way through cut scenes & hit 50 in a couple days, a week, 2 weeks, whatever, sorry guys & gals, this game is not for you. You missed the entire point. In the words of Obi-Wan, /waves hand..."You can go about your business....move along."
If the point of SWTOR is to watch cut-scenes then you are right, the game isn't for me.
Also if I wanted to watch cut-scenes I can turn on my TV or pop in a DVD and watch a movie. TV/Movies > Games for cut-scenes anyday.
As for the end gamers who space barred their way through cut scenes & hit 50 in a couple days, a week, 2 weeks, whatever, sorry guys & gals, this game is not for you. You missed the entire point. In the words of Obi-Wan, /waves hand..."You can go about your business....move along."
If the point of SWTOR is to watch cut-scenes then you are right, the game isn't for me.
Also if I wanted to watch cut-scenes I can turn on my TV or pop in a DVD and watch a movie. TV/Movies > Games for cut-scenes anyday.
I would say the point is the story, of which are delivered via cut scenes depending on the quests you performed and your dialogue choices. If that is not for you, then the game is not for you. I found it enjoyable for a month. If I had skipped through them, the game would be completely unenjoyable.
But I think completely dismissing the story as something that shouldn't even be in the game, I disagree. Sure you can watch TV or a movie, but is that the only time you want to have story play out? Not me. For instance the story in Mass Effect trilogy played out in much the same way. Cut scenes based on missions completed and your dialogue choices. But ME really sucked me in and it was a very emotional experience. If you skip through all the dialogue in ME trilogy then again, you are missing the point of the game.
Some people do really enjoy good interactive fiction. And I would say the emotional impact of the ME series was higher than any movie or DVD I have ever watched, to be honest. I was personally invested in it, not merely a bystander watching the TV.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
As for the end gamers who space barred their way through cut scenes & hit 50 in a couple days, a week, 2 weeks, whatever, sorry guys & gals, this game is not for you. You missed the entire point. In the words of Obi-Wan, /waves hand..."You can go about your business....move along."
This is how we would define a SPRPG not an MMO RPG. The game sells itself as an MMORPG.
No, I think everyone has a right to be upset if they were looking for an MMO.
SWG was an MMORPG. Can you imagine how that would have come across having to move from one cut scene to another in order to progress?
To sum it up bioware needs to drop the " we didn't shit in our pants someone else did " attitude, admit they screwed up. Offer a deep honest sincere apology to the community in general then they need to do EXACTLY what FF XIV did and is doing, stop charging a month sub, take the game back to square one and start remaking it, and listen to EVERY feedback the players have to offer.
Oh and if they really wanted to show some remorse they might do something like offer everyone that registered a swtor key a free bioware title of thier choice.
Right now EA and Bioware should be more concerned with the PR and the major hit to Bioware's reputation, not only on SWTOR, but on the hits they are getting for Mass Effect 3 as well. Honestly if Bioware spent as much on the games themselves and less on flooding the Syfy channel with BS TV commercials they might actual get the public back on their side.
As for the end gamers who space barred their way through cut scenes & hit 50 in a couple days, a week, 2 weeks, whatever, sorry guys & gals, this game is not for you. You missed the entire point. In the words of Obi-Wan, /waves hand..."You can go about your business....move along."
This is how we would define a SPRPG not an MMO RPG. The game sells itself as an MMORPG.
No, I think everyone has a right to be upset if they were looking for an MMO.
SWG was an MMORPG. Can you imagine how that would have come across having to move from one cut scene to another in order to progress?
Just view it as a story driven RPG that you can play with others. That is what it is. I think calling it an MMO is what got it in so much trouble.
I still wouldn't call it the best story driven RPG out there though, but at least it succeeded there. As an MMO though, I agree, I think it fails. But I chose not to view it that way so I was happier than those looking for all the MMO bells and whistles.
Again, I'm no fanboy I thought it was a one month experience and then thats it. I only did my free month and moved on. But I'm no hater just because it wasn't an "MMO" it was still a decent "game"
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I find it surprising that some people actually expected something innovative of this title.
I mean, the writing was on the wall for anyone to see: Bioware (heavily story-driven, single player rpgs) + EA (greedy corporate suits with no knowledge of what makes a good game) + SW (huge, expensive, mainstream IP) = a story-driven, dumbed-down, solo friendly, mainstream themepark game.
Cres that is fine and dandy to have an opinion. As you showed, there are several major issues to you.
What I have an issue with is folks breaking the TOS on this site, and continually posting those reasons. The concerted effort to spread negativity is, quite frankly, childish. The TOR forum is pretty much dedicated to the so called "forum PVP", and if this shit was happening in the EVE or AA forums, folks would be losing their freaking minds.
Like you said....you hope TOR drops immensely. Which is the difference between me n you. I dont feel the need to hope other games crash n burn. When it comes down to it, just cause I dont like something, I dont feel it gives me the right to wish problems for someone else.
To each their own I guess. Good write up to explain your feelings just the same.
This website is about discussing MMOs, worts and all. We don't come here to blow sunshine up the developer's arses when it is underserved. If you don't want to read people's negative opinions, and you believe everyone is on some sort of vendetta, then perhaps MMO forums are not the right place for you to spend time.
I beg to differ....
It isnt "discussion"....it is the same shit different day from a number of the same posters. It actually is against the TOS of site, but for some reason it isnt enforced. Do gameplay discussions happen? Nope not really....they get bumped to the bottom of the page every time for the latest "Derrr we wanted the PRECIoUs" thread, or some flavor to that effect. Threads always turn into bitch session, and you can typically count on the same folks to chime in.
We get it....some of you dont like the game. Move the fuck on.
Instead the fans of TOR are forced to deal with you folks, and it is BS quite frankly. The fact you would even attempt to sugar coat what actually transpires doesnt surprise me, as being a "practicing SWG "vet" you are the epitome of what is annoying about dealing with the TOR forums. It was uncalled for when this same shit happened for EQ yrs ago, and it is now for TOR.
Like I said though, if this shit was happening in either the EVE or AA forums, the same folks here slinging shit would be going ape shit crazy. It is hard enough for MMOs without someone trying to drive away potential business.
So now Cres has come out and listed why he doesnt like TOR. I would expect a person to either walk away, or simply not make a daily habit of chiming in to flame the game. Like he stated though, he wants the game to do badly, so I guess he is going to continue flaming in the hopes it helps to make it a reality.
Who knows? Maybe you guys have a point, and rather than being concerned about TOR, I should spend my time spreading dirt about other games in their respective forums. Nah....I wont stoop to that level.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Cres that is fine and dandy to have an opinion. As you showed, there are several major issues to you. What I have an issue with is folks breaking the TOS on this site, and continually posting those reasons. The concerted effort to spread negativity is, quite frankly, childish. The TOR forum is pretty much dedicated to the so called "forum PVP", and if this shit was happening in the EVE or AA forums, folks would be losing their freaking minds. Like you said....you hope TOR drops immensely. Which is the difference between me n you. I dont feel the need to hope other games crash n burn. When it comes down to it, just cause I dont like something, I dont feel it gives me the right to wish problems for someone else. To each their own I guess. Good write up to explain your feelings just the same.
This website is about discussing MMOs, worts and all. We don't come here to blow sunshine up the developer's arses when it is underserved. If you don't want to read people's negative opinions, and you believe everyone is on some sort of vendetta, then perhaps MMO forums are not the right place for you to spend time.
I beg to differ....
It isnt "discussion"....it is the same shit different day from a number of the same posters. It actually is against the TOS of site, but for some reason it isnt enforced. Do gameplay discussions happen? Nope not really....they get bumped to the bottom of the page every time for the latest "Derrr we wanted the PRECIoUs" thread, or some flavor to that effect. Threads always turn into bitch session, and you can typically count on the same folks to chime in.
We get it....some of you dont like the game. Move the fuck on.
Instead the fans of TOR are forced to deal with you folks, and it is BS quite frankly. The fact you would even attempt to sugar coat what actually transpires doesnt surprise me, as being a "practicing SWG "vet" you are the epitome of what is annoying about dealing with the TOR forums. It was uncalled for when this same shit happened for EQ yrs ago, and it is now for TOR.
Like I said though, if this shit was happening in either the EVE or AA forums, the same folks here slinging shit would be going ape shit crazy. It is hard enough for MMOs without someone trying to drive away potential business.
So now Cres has come out and listed why he doesnt like TOR. I would expect a person to either walk away, or simply not make a daily habit of chiming in to flame the game. Like he stated though, he wants the game to do badly, so I guess he is going to continue flaming in the hopes it helps to make it a reality.
Who knows? Maybe you guys have a point, and rather than being concerned about TOR, I should spend my time spreading dirt about other games in their respective forums. Nah....I wont stoop to that level.
What happens in these forums has no effect on a games success or failure, people post hatred or love or god help us a reasonable fair minded view of a product where 99% of the players do not read these forums. It doesn't bother me if anyone hates the games I like, every one likes different games and people being negative has no real world effect.
Also if you don't want people posting in "your" TOR forum as you have stated before I suggest you petition MMORPG.com to get rid of their realtime forum overview page, I have never once visited a particular forum, I think most people follow the threads through that rather than jumping in and out of all the different forums.
Cres that is fine and dandy to have an opinion. As you showed, there are several major issues to you.
What I have an issue with is folks breaking the TOS on this site, and continually posting those reasons. The concerted effort to spread negativity is, quite frankly, childish. The TOR forum is pretty much dedicated to the so called "forum PVP", and if this shit was happening in the EVE or AA forums, folks would be losing their freaking minds.
Like you said....you hope TOR drops immensely. Which is the difference between me n you. I dont feel the need to hope other games crash n burn. When it comes down to it, just cause I dont like something, I dont feel it gives me the right to wish problems for someone else.
To each their own I guess. Good write up to explain your feelings just the same.
This website is about discussing MMOs, worts and all. We don't come here to blow sunshine up the developer's arses when it is underserved. If you don't want to read people's negative opinions, and you believe everyone is on some sort of vendetta, then perhaps MMO forums are not the right place for you to spend time.
I beg to differ....
It isnt "discussion"....it is the same shit different day from a number of the same posters. It actually is against the TOS of site, but for some reason it isnt enforced. Do gameplay discussions happen? Nope not really....they get bumped to the bottom of the page every time for the latest "Derrr we wanted the PRECIoUs" thread, or some flavor to that effect. Threads always turn into bitch session, and you can typically count on the same folks to chime in.
We get it....some of you dont like the game. Move the fuck on.
Instead the fans of TOR are forced to deal with you folks, and it is BS quite frankly. The fact you would even attempt to sugar coat what actually transpires doesnt surprise me, as being a "practicing SWG "vet" you are the epitome of what is annoying about dealing with the TOR forums. It was uncalled for when this same shit happened for EQ yrs ago, and it is now for TOR.
Like I said though, if this shit was happening in either the EVE or AA forums, the same folks here slinging shit would be going ape shit crazy. It is hard enough for MMOs without someone trying to drive away potential business.
So now Cres has come out and listed why he doesnt like TOR. I would expect a person to either walk away, or simply not make a daily habit of chiming in to flame the game. Like he stated though, he wants the game to do badly, so I guess he is going to continue flaming in the hopes it helps to make it a reality.
Who knows? Maybe you guys have a point, and rather than being concerned about TOR, I should spend my time spreading dirt about other games in their respective forums. Nah....I wont stoop to that level.
Cres that is fine and dandy to have an opinion. As you showed, there are several major issues to you.
What I have an issue with is folks breaking the TOS on this site, and continually posting those reasons. The concerted effort to spread negativity is, quite frankly, childish. The TOR forum is pretty much dedicated to the so called "forum PVP", and if this shit was happening in the EVE or AA forums, folks would be losing their freaking minds.
Like you said....you hope TOR drops immensely. Which is the difference between me n you. I dont feel the need to hope other games crash n burn. When it comes down to it, just cause I dont like something, I dont feel it gives me the right to wish problems for someone else.
To each their own I guess. Good write up to explain your feelings just the same.
This website is about discussing MMOs, worts and all. We don't come here to blow sunshine up the developer's arses when it is underserved. If you don't want to read people's negative opinions, and you believe everyone is on some sort of vendetta, then perhaps MMO forums are not the right place for you to spend time.
I beg to differ....
It isnt "discussion"....it is the same shit different day from a number of the same posters. It actually is against the TOS of site, but for some reason it isnt enforced. Do gameplay discussions happen? Nope not really....they get bumped to the bottom of the page every time for the latest "Derrr we wanted the PRECIoUs" thread, or some flavor to that effect. Threads always turn into bitch session, and you can typically count on the same folks to chime in.
We get it....some of you dont like the game. Move the fuck on.
Instead the fans of TOR are forced to deal with you folks, and it is BS quite frankly. The fact you would even attempt to sugar coat what actually transpires doesnt surprise me, as being a "practicing SWG "vet" you are the epitome of what is annoying about dealing with the TOR forums. It was uncalled for when this same shit happened for EQ yrs ago, and it is now for TOR.
Like I said though, if this shit was happening in either the EVE or AA forums, the same folks here slinging shit would be going ape shit crazy. It is hard enough for MMOs without someone trying to drive away potential business.
So now Cres has come out and listed why he doesnt like TOR. I would expect a person to either walk away, or simply not make a daily habit of chiming in to flame the game. Like he stated though, he wants the game to do badly, so I guess he is going to continue flaming in the hopes it helps to make it a reality.
Who knows? Maybe you guys have a point, and rather than being concerned about TOR, I should spend my time spreading dirt about other games in their respective forums. Nah....I wont stoop to that level.
I think it's understood. You are a fan of the game. You don't like seeing people attacking it over and over.
But with the same approach that people use to express their opinions about this game, you attack them when it's different from yours. I don't think your points are any more or less valid then theirs. How many times have you made your opinions known regarding PVP and Sandbox games? And no one attacks you or your right to express them.
But what really irritated me was when you start throwing around "TOS" while in the same post, using foul language. Not that I have an issue with either one, and maybe it's just me, but I get the impression you are trying to use the "TOS" to your own benefit.
The game is an interactive movie, not a game. The combat, character development and GAME part of it has been entirely neglected.
This "game" deserves to fail, because it's not a game, but one of those old interactive movies on SEGA-CD/PC CD-ROM. What makes it all so bad though is that they want a premium price for it too.
No, this game IS bad, because it's not a game.
Uh huh. People are clearing running out of troll material if this is what we're turning to now.
Indeed, people might be, but I certainly haven't after having actually gotten to lay my hands on the game itself. From your response, I'm guessing you belong to that very set of people.
This is your best response? "I know you are but what am I?". LOL
This last summer, I dl'd a copy of the old KoToR and DA:O and decided to play them as I waited for a MMO that was worth my time. At the time my computer was on its death bed and would sometimes crash mid-game. While at first I found this to be a serious PITA, I came to the conclusion that the conversation system for BW, interactive cut screens, wears on me. I noticed that I could play for 2 hrs or so during the night and it would be possible that all I accomplished was a cut-screen grind. At this point I knew I wouldn't enjoy the game.
Disclaimer....I neither support nor condemn this game because it is only a game.
Things I tire of hearing about...it's not like SWG...well it's based of WoW gameplay (as BW stated) not Galaxies. Space is turrible...they didn't say it would be X-wing vs Tie (of course they didn't say it would be starfox but w/e). It is a heavily instanced game that I can play and never see another soul. Followed by every zone has hundred of players running around with the same outfit and the same companion.
Save the rhetoric for the politicians and come up with constructive critisizm for the community to see. An indie might just come out with it. And lastly, do a little research on it. So many people were destined for disappointment with their unreal and uninformed interpretations of this game. Games today are marketed for gamers today, ie say the key words, vague ideas, and flashy promo vids then let the player base blow the hype machine up with their own ideas. The player base loves to say that the gaming companies are all about greed, but aren't we being just as selfish by wanting every game catered specifically for us (sand/theme, group/solo, etc).
This last summer, I dl'd a copy of the old KoToR and DA:O and decided to play them as I waited for a MMO that was worth my time. At the time my computer was on its death bed and would sometimes crash mid-game. While at first I found this to be a serious PITA, I came to the conclusion that the conversation system for BW, interactive cut screens, wears on me. I noticed that I could play for 2 hrs or so during the night and it would be possible that all I accomplished was a cut-screen grind. At this point I knew I wouldn't enjoy the game.
Disclaimer....I neither support nor condemn this game because it is only a game.
Things I tire of hearing about...it's not like SWG...well it's based of WoW gameplay (as BW stated) not Galaxies. Space is turrible...they didn't say it would be X-wing vs Tie (of course they didn't say it would be starfox but w/e). It is a heavily instanced game that I can play and never see another soul. Followed by every zone has hundred of players running around with the same outfit and the same companion.
Save the rhetoric for the politicians and come up with constructive critisizm for the community to see. An indie might just come out with it. And lastly, do a little research on it. So many people were destined for disappointment with their unreal and uninformed interpretations of this game. Games today are marketed for gamers today, ie say the key words, vague ideas, and flashy promo vids then let the player base blow the hype machine up with their own ideas. The player base loves to say that the gaming companies are all about greed, but aren't we being just as selfish by wanting every game catered specifically for us (sand/theme, group/solo, etc).
I totally agree with this. Crazy thing is, I find this game to be fun. Of course, I don't play it for hours on end a day. I'll log in and play 2-4 hours and I'm done for the day.
The player base loves to say that the gaming companies are all about greed, but aren't we being just as selfish by wanting every game catered specifically for us (sand/theme, group/solo, etc).
I don't think this is really the case.
The only thing these games cater to is the companies who released them.
Most of us would be happy with a game that just delivers most of what it's supposed to.
I think it's understood. You are a fan of the game. You don't like seeing people attacking it over and over.
But with the same approach that people use to express their opinions about this game, you attack them when it's different from yours. I don't think your points are any more or less valid then theirs. How many times have you made your opinions known regarding PVP and Sandbox games? And no one attacks you or your right to express them.
But what really irritated me was when you start throwing around "TOS" while in the same post, using foul language. Not that I have an issue with either one, and maybe it's just me, but I get the impression you are trying to use the "TOS" to your own benefit.
I dont go into other game forums, and proceed to bitch cause the game doesnt cater to me, nor my desire to see it fail. I have posted in both GW2 and AA forums recently, and many more in the past, and although I am not a fan of those games, I was respectful to those that do look forward to them. It is their "homecourt" so to speak.
Do I speak badly of sandbox/SWG fans....of course I paint them in a bad light, but I suggest you look at the other side for the first shots fired. Not only was my first MMO attacked by these folks(EQ) back in 05/06, but us themepark players are consistently being compared to pond scum, it is somehow our fault they dont have a game etc etc
Check the main brds for plenty of examples. Note: When I say EQ was attacked, I want you to picture someone taking the time to destroy game boxes of SOE games in stores. Rather immature behavour. Much like what has transpired here in this forum for several yrs now.
So of course I have had something to say over the years. The calls for more folks to die after Jeff Freeman passed was about the lowest I have ever seen out of the MMO community. Once again we know what camp they come from.
As far as foul language, and how it pertains to the TOS....they let us get away with it as long as a post isnt simply a sailor language tirade. Another reason I prefer private forums to corporate ones.
None of that matters though....the OP has flat out said he has an interest in seeing a game that some of us play fail, or at least perform very badly. Either scenario would be bad for those of us that do enjoy TOR. Rather than going about his business, I fully expect his ass to be planted here as long as possible in the remote chance he can help it happen. Which isnt discussion, it is simply hate mongoring.
The second I spend my time trying to get one of your games cancelled I want you to call me out as a hypocrit. Until such time, I will keep my soap box thank ye very much.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I dont go into other game forums, and proceed to bitch cause the game doesnt cater to me, nor my desire to see it fail. I have posted in both GW2 and AA forums recently, and many more in the past, and although I am not a fan of those games, I was respectful to those that do look forward to them. It is their "homecourt" so to speak.
Do I speak badly of sandbox/SWG fans....of course I paint them in a bad light, but I suggest you look at the other side for the first shots fired. Not only was my first MMO attacked by these folks(EQ) back in 05/06, but us themepark players are consistently being compared to pond scum, it is somehow our fault they dont have a game etc etc
Check the main brds for plenty of examples. Note: When I say EQ was attacked, I want you to picture someone taking the time to destroy game boxes of SOE games in stores. Rather immature behavour. Much like what has transpired here in this forum for several yrs now.
So of course I have had something to say over the years. The calls for more folks to die after Jeff Freeman passed was about the lowest I have ever seen out of the MMO community. Once again we know what camp they come from.
As far as foul language, and how it pertains to the TOS....they let us get away with it as long as a post isnt simply a sailor language tirade. Another reason I prefer private forums to corporate ones.
None of that matters though....the OP has flat out said he has an interest in seeing a game that some of us play fail, or at least perform very badly. Either scenario would be bad for those of us that do enjoy TOR. Rather than going about his business, I fully expect his ass to be planted here as long as possible in the remote chance he can help it happen. Which isnt discussion, it is simply hate mongoring.
The second I spend my time trying to get one of your games cancelled I want you to call me out as a hypocrit. Until such time, I will keep my soap box thank ye very much.
1. I for one have not ever played TOR. I followed it, I researched it. I am well aware of what it is and is not. I was ready to hop on the new SW Bandwagon prior to release, but then I put TOR on hold. I have commented on the game . I have stated what I think based on what i know, and that is that BW sold one thing and delivered something else. But I have never commented on it's PVP or PVE content. I know it has specific mechanics that I also know do not line up with what a mreal MMO would be. That being anything that facilitates single player game play. But, I am really carefull not to speak on what I can only assume. That said, I still may play it. If just for 30 days. But does that mean I am barred from comming in here and discussing it in any light negative or positive? And those who did pay for this game and feel burned....How is this not "Thier homecourt" too? Have you thought that most of the people who are "bitching" about this game actually WANT to see it succeed? They WANT Bioware to do right by it? And if that is done, would they not flood back in?
2. If it's wrong for SB players to bash TP players? Why is it justified for you to retaliate in kind? Well, OK, if it's an eye for an eye thing, then fine, go for it, but don't do it then post like you are all justified for throwing rocks right back. Either the behavior is acceptable or it isn't.
3. I really can't argue with you on this one.
4. Same
5. Yes, and the TOS also allows for speaking badly of games so long as it can be substantiated. So in the same gray area you entered into, so did the OP of this thread.
Comments
Blimey, another 'SWTOR is substandard' thread? I agree with everything you say OP, your opinions and gripes are fairly standard after the honeymoon period is over but... *shhh* don't tell the people who are still in the 'oooh we get to play with lightsabres' phase of their SWTOR experience, they tend to get upset when opinions of the game are less than glowing.
Bioware believes they can make a WoW clone which emphasizes Alt grinding. There are 3 reasons this is a recipe for failure
1- 90+% of the content you will do on an alt of the same faction is identical. Once you hit level cap its exactly the same.
2. Due to hard factions, if your main is on the Republic side (especially if your guild is as well) then you are completely cut-off from your guild and friends on the opposite faction with a Empire alt. This encourages people to only roll alts with the same faction which only makes problem #1 all the more obvious.
3- Most gamers become invested in their mains. Many of them are completely uninterested in alts in the first place. So a game which promotes playing alts to keep you subbed is going to appeal far less to these gamers as one which provides lots of character progression and end-game content (which SWTOR lacks).
I have a feeling that Bioware hedging their bets on MMO gamers being interested in rolling tons of alts is ging to backfire massively.
I think where Bioware failed is when they took "What they do best" and try to merge it into an MMO.
Problem is, I don't think anyone designing SWTOR was really a hardcore MMO gamer. Or they would have known that SPRPG features are in opposition to MMORPG features.
Adding more SPRPG features to an MMORPG, is self defeating. What this game ended up with is a Tug-O-War within it's own mechanics. It won't get very far that way.
Let us not forget that a majority of the posters on mmorpg.com are also tired of mmorpgs and are looking for each new title to satiate their overblown expectations. Many complaints here, in general not just TOR, are about the mechanics of the very genre.
For some obscure reason there are some here that expect every game to be tailor made to their exact wants and expectations, any deviance from that is met with the illogical conclusion that the title sucks and deserves to fail. If you spend 3 years watching and waiting for a game to reach gold status you are only going to be disappointed.
Does TOR suck? For some yes totally, for others no. One thing for sure, the game has generated a lot of interest looking at the forum traffic.
Most of the negativity about the game comes from, once again, that vocal few who only play a game for its "end game" content.
Are there bugs & other things that should have been caught earlier? Maybe, but with the sheer amount of things to do in a MMO you can never account for everything people will do, it is dam near impossible.
As for the end gamers who space barred their way through cut scenes & hit 50 in a couple days, a week, 2 weeks, whatever, sorry guys & gals, this game is not for you. You missed the entire point. In the words of Obi-Wan, /waves hand..."You can go about your business....move along."
If this game was amazing I'd play it and be happy
If this game was awful I'd scorn it and be happy
However It is instead very mediocre and that just doesn't sit right.
If the point of SWTOR is to watch cut-scenes then you are right, the game isn't for me.
Also if I wanted to watch cut-scenes I can turn on my TV or pop in a DVD and watch a movie. TV/Movies > Games for cut-scenes anyday.
I would say the point is the story, of which are delivered via cut scenes depending on the quests you performed and your dialogue choices. If that is not for you, then the game is not for you. I found it enjoyable for a month. If I had skipped through them, the game would be completely unenjoyable.
But I think completely dismissing the story as something that shouldn't even be in the game, I disagree. Sure you can watch TV or a movie, but is that the only time you want to have story play out? Not me. For instance the story in Mass Effect trilogy played out in much the same way. Cut scenes based on missions completed and your dialogue choices. But ME really sucked me in and it was a very emotional experience. If you skip through all the dialogue in ME trilogy then again, you are missing the point of the game.
Some people do really enjoy good interactive fiction. And I would say the emotional impact of the ME series was higher than any movie or DVD I have ever watched, to be honest. I was personally invested in it, not merely a bystander watching the TV.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
This is how we would define a SPRPG not an MMO RPG. The game sells itself as an MMORPG.
No, I think everyone has a right to be upset if they were looking for an MMO.
SWG was an MMORPG. Can you imagine how that would have come across having to move from one cut scene to another in order to progress?
To sum it up bioware needs to drop the " we didn't shit in our pants someone else did " attitude, admit they screwed up. Offer a deep honest sincere apology to the community in general then they need to do EXACTLY what FF XIV did and is doing, stop charging a month sub, take the game back to square one and start remaking it, and listen to EVERY feedback the players have to offer.
Oh and if they really wanted to show some remorse they might do something like offer everyone that registered a swtor key a free bioware title of thier choice.
Right now EA and Bioware should be more concerned with the PR and the major hit to Bioware's reputation, not only on SWTOR, but on the hits they are getting for Mass Effect 3 as well. Honestly if Bioware spent as much on the games themselves and less on flooding the Syfy channel with BS TV commercials they might actual get the public back on their side.
Just view it as a story driven RPG that you can play with others. That is what it is. I think calling it an MMO is what got it in so much trouble.
I still wouldn't call it the best story driven RPG out there though, but at least it succeeded there. As an MMO though, I agree, I think it fails. But I chose not to view it that way so I was happier than those looking for all the MMO bells and whistles.
Again, I'm no fanboy I thought it was a one month experience and then thats it. I only did my free month and moved on. But I'm no hater just because it wasn't an "MMO" it was still a decent "game"
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I find it surprising that some people actually expected something innovative of this title.
I mean, the writing was on the wall for anyone to see: Bioware (heavily story-driven, single player rpgs) + EA (greedy corporate suits with no knowledge of what makes a good game) + SW (huge, expensive, mainstream IP) = a story-driven, dumbed-down, solo friendly, mainstream themepark game.
I beg to differ....
It isnt "discussion"....it is the same shit different day from a number of the same posters. It actually is against the TOS of site, but for some reason it isnt enforced. Do gameplay discussions happen? Nope not really....they get bumped to the bottom of the page every time for the latest "Derrr we wanted the PRECIoUs" thread, or some flavor to that effect. Threads always turn into bitch session, and you can typically count on the same folks to chime in.
We get it....some of you dont like the game. Move the fuck on.
Instead the fans of TOR are forced to deal with you folks, and it is BS quite frankly. The fact you would even attempt to sugar coat what actually transpires doesnt surprise me, as being a "practicing SWG "vet" you are the epitome of what is annoying about dealing with the TOR forums. It was uncalled for when this same shit happened for EQ yrs ago, and it is now for TOR.
Like I said though, if this shit was happening in either the EVE or AA forums, the same folks here slinging shit would be going ape shit crazy. It is hard enough for MMOs without someone trying to drive away potential business.
So now Cres has come out and listed why he doesnt like TOR. I would expect a person to either walk away, or simply not make a daily habit of chiming in to flame the game. Like he stated though, he wants the game to do badly, so I guess he is going to continue flaming in the hopes it helps to make it a reality.
Who knows? Maybe you guys have a point, and rather than being concerned about TOR, I should spend my time spreading dirt about other games in their respective forums. Nah....I wont stoop to that level.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
This website is about discussing MMOs, worts and all. We don't come here to blow sunshine up the developer's arses when it is underserved. If you don't want to read people's negative opinions, and you believe everyone is on some sort of vendetta, then perhaps MMO forums are not the right place for you to spend time.
I beg to differ....
It isnt "discussion"....it is the same shit different day from a number of the same posters. It actually is against the TOS of site, but for some reason it isnt enforced. Do gameplay discussions happen? Nope not really....they get bumped to the bottom of the page every time for the latest "Derrr we wanted the PRECIoUs" thread, or some flavor to that effect. Threads always turn into bitch session, and you can typically count on the same folks to chime in.
We get it....some of you dont like the game. Move the fuck on.
Instead the fans of TOR are forced to deal with you folks, and it is BS quite frankly. The fact you would even attempt to sugar coat what actually transpires doesnt surprise me, as being a "practicing SWG "vet" you are the epitome of what is annoying about dealing with the TOR forums. It was uncalled for when this same shit happened for EQ yrs ago, and it is now for TOR.
Like I said though, if this shit was happening in either the EVE or AA forums, the same folks here slinging shit would be going ape shit crazy. It is hard enough for MMOs without someone trying to drive away potential business.
So now Cres has come out and listed why he doesnt like TOR. I would expect a person to either walk away, or simply not make a daily habit of chiming in to flame the game. Like he stated though, he wants the game to do badly, so I guess he is going to continue flaming in the hopes it helps to make it a reality.
Who knows? Maybe you guys have a point, and rather than being concerned about TOR, I should spend my time spreading dirt about other games in their respective forums. Nah....I wont stoop to that level.
What happens in these forums has no effect on a games success or failure, people post hatred or love or god help us a reasonable fair minded view of a product where 99% of the players do not read these forums. It doesn't bother me if anyone hates the games I like, every one likes different games and people being negative has no real world effect.
Also if you don't want people posting in "your" TOR forum as you have stated before I suggest you petition MMORPG.com to get rid of their realtime forum overview page, I have never once visited a particular forum, I think most people follow the threads through that rather than jumping in and out of all the different forums.I was just reading some comments in this link about SW:TOR. Below, were some of the points made in that thread.
1. Before the game was released, the devs talked about features which weren't there to start of with in their interviews.
2. deceptive advertising heavily using the camera angle to hide the fact that the world is static and lifeless.
3. lack of game testing during beta.
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.
Quite true...
I think it's understood. You are a fan of the game. You don't like seeing people attacking it over and over.
But with the same approach that people use to express their opinions about this game, you attack them when it's different from yours. I don't think your points are any more or less valid then theirs. How many times have you made your opinions known regarding PVP and Sandbox games? And no one attacks you or your right to express them.
But what really irritated me was when you start throwing around "TOS" while in the same post, using foul language. Not that I have an issue with either one, and maybe it's just me, but I get the impression you are trying to use the "TOS" to your own benefit.
This is your best response? "I know you are but what am I?". LOL
Because, I'm afrad to say its a 300 million waste of space.
But they did say its their first mmo and they will learn with their next one so atleast thats something...
www.daneslaw.com
@GamerKurisu
Awaiting Darkfall Unholy Wars
Meka leka hi, meka hiney ho.
Meka leka hi, meka chiney ho.
Mo... fuck , I never could get the last part right. Lucky for you, because I just wished you gone.
PS: I know you are, but what am I?
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
This last summer, I dl'd a copy of the old KoToR and DA:O and decided to play them as I waited for a MMO that was worth my time. At the time my computer was on its death bed and would sometimes crash mid-game. While at first I found this to be a serious PITA, I came to the conclusion that the conversation system for BW, interactive cut screens, wears on me. I noticed that I could play for 2 hrs or so during the night and it would be possible that all I accomplished was a cut-screen grind. At this point I knew I wouldn't enjoy the game.
Disclaimer....I neither support nor condemn this game because it is only a game.
Things I tire of hearing about...it's not like SWG...well it's based of WoW gameplay (as BW stated) not Galaxies. Space is turrible...they didn't say it would be X-wing vs Tie (of course they didn't say it would be starfox but w/e). It is a heavily instanced game that I can play and never see another soul. Followed by every zone has hundred of players running around with the same outfit and the same companion.
Save the rhetoric for the politicians and come up with constructive critisizm for the community to see. An indie might just come out with it. And lastly, do a little research on it. So many people were destined for disappointment with their unreal and uninformed interpretations of this game. Games today are marketed for gamers today, ie say the key words, vague ideas, and flashy promo vids then let the player base blow the hype machine up with their own ideas. The player base loves to say that the gaming companies are all about greed, but aren't we being just as selfish by wanting every game catered specifically for us (sand/theme, group/solo, etc).
I totally agree with this. Crazy thing is, I find this game to be fun. Of course, I don't play it for hours on end a day. I'll log in and play 2-4 hours and I'm done for the day.
I don't think this is really the case.
The only thing these games cater to is the companies who released them.
Most of us would be happy with a game that just delivers most of what it's supposed to.
I dont go into other game forums, and proceed to bitch cause the game doesnt cater to me, nor my desire to see it fail. I have posted in both GW2 and AA forums recently, and many more in the past, and although I am not a fan of those games, I was respectful to those that do look forward to them. It is their "homecourt" so to speak.
Do I speak badly of sandbox/SWG fans....of course I paint them in a bad light, but I suggest you look at the other side for the first shots fired. Not only was my first MMO attacked by these folks(EQ) back in 05/06, but us themepark players are consistently being compared to pond scum, it is somehow our fault they dont have a game etc etc
Check the main brds for plenty of examples. Note: When I say EQ was attacked, I want you to picture someone taking the time to destroy game boxes of SOE games in stores. Rather immature behavour. Much like what has transpired here in this forum for several yrs now.
So of course I have had something to say over the years. The calls for more folks to die after Jeff Freeman passed was about the lowest I have ever seen out of the MMO community. Once again we know what camp they come from.
As far as foul language, and how it pertains to the TOS....they let us get away with it as long as a post isnt simply a sailor language tirade. Another reason I prefer private forums to corporate ones.
None of that matters though....the OP has flat out said he has an interest in seeing a game that some of us play fail, or at least perform very badly. Either scenario would be bad for those of us that do enjoy TOR. Rather than going about his business, I fully expect his ass to be planted here as long as possible in the remote chance he can help it happen. Which isnt discussion, it is simply hate mongoring.
The second I spend my time trying to get one of your games cancelled I want you to call me out as a hypocrit. Until such time, I will keep my soap box thank ye very much.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
1. I for one have not ever played TOR. I followed it, I researched it. I am well aware of what it is and is not. I was ready to hop on the new SW Bandwagon prior to release, but then I put TOR on hold. I have commented on the game . I have stated what I think based on what i know, and that is that BW sold one thing and delivered something else. But I have never commented on it's PVP or PVE content. I know it has specific mechanics that I also know do not line up with what a mreal MMO would be. That being anything that facilitates single player game play. But, I am really carefull not to speak on what I can only assume. That said, I still may play it. If just for 30 days. But does that mean I am barred from comming in here and discussing it in any light negative or positive? And those who did pay for this game and feel burned....How is this not "Thier homecourt" too? Have you thought that most of the people who are "bitching" about this game actually WANT to see it succeed? They WANT Bioware to do right by it? And if that is done, would they not flood back in?
2. If it's wrong for SB players to bash TP players? Why is it justified for you to retaliate in kind? Well, OK, if it's an eye for an eye thing, then fine, go for it, but don't do it then post like you are all justified for throwing rocks right back. Either the behavior is acceptable or it isn't.
3. I really can't argue with you on this one.
4. Same
5. Yes, and the TOS also allows for speaking badly of games so long as it can be substantiated. So in the same gray area you entered into, so did the OP of this thread.
6. In this thread?
7. See # 2