Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?
The Guild System will offers boost of their own, so I could care less if the cash shop offers a +20% XP for 12hrs scroll. Wouldn't affect my gameplay. "Pay-2-Look Cool" or "Pay-to-Skip"... eitherway I doubt it would be "Pay-to-Win".
What about if the cash shop offered influence boosts which in turn can be used to get those Guild System boosts faster? The DE/CE edition already has a flat influence item (and glory). EXP boosts are pretty meaningless, the real potential problem here is that they could sell loot, karma, glory, and influence boosts and label it a convenience item when they do have an effect on gameplay in that a player can acquire these currencies that are used for gear (or other more permenant currency boosts through the guild influence system) much faster through the use of real money.
A cash shop Influence boost of sorts will only work well for a guild, if everyone got it and I doubt any guild can get everyone to fork over cash for for the boost, when there is already an in-game way to boost your entire guild's influence gains. Same with PvP. Be a part of a PvP guild and boost your Glory gains. Even if the shop sold a Glory booster, it still isn't "Pay-to-Win" with GW2's normalized PvP gear system. Not even going to waste my time talking about loot.
Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?
The Guild System will offers boost of their own, so I could care less if the cash shop offers a +20% XP for 12hrs scroll. Wouldn't affect my gameplay. "Pay-2-Look Cool" or "Pay-to-Skip"... eitherway I doubt it would be "Pay-to-Win".
What about if the cash shop offered influence boosts which in turn can be used to get those Guild System boosts faster? The DE/CE edition already has a flat influence item (and glory). EXP boosts are pretty meaningless, the real potential problem here is that they could sell loot, karma, glory, and influence boosts and label it a convenience item when they do have an effect on gameplay in that a player can acquire these currencies that are used for gear (or other more permenant currency boosts through the guild influence system) much faster through the use of real money.
A cash shop Influence boost of sorts will only work well for a guild, if everyone got it and I doubt any guild can get everyone to fork over cash for for the boost, when there is already an in-game way to boost your entire guild's influence gains. Same with PvP. Be a part of a PvP guild and boost your Glory gains. Even if the shop sold a Glory booster, it still isn't "Pay-to-Win" with GW2's normalized PvP gear system. Not even going to waste my time talking about loot.
I'm sure there will be hardcore guilds that encourage everyone to buy the bonus. Yes, you can get bonuses through the guild system, but they'll probably stack with the bonuses from pots (if there are even pots in the cash shop, it's all speculation at this point) so you'll be getting a double bonus. Depending on the scale of the bonuses, this could be a huge advantage starting out for a guild with loads of members willing to pay for the boosts. Not only will they acquire the bonuses faster (such as a 3% karma boost) than a non-paying guild, but they'll also have the bonuses of the potions themselves on top of that creating a large gap in their favor out of the gate.
One crux of the issue that I see people arguing about is the gold farmers. Gold farmers operate in one of two ways: 1) they hack other people's accounts to steal loot and gold, or 2) they program a bot operation or make macros.
Anet basically already has both of these farming venues closed down.
With the original GW, Anet has an impeccable track record with account security; I see no reason for it to be any different with GW2.
Second, botting and macro'ing are basically null and void for one reason: Dynamic Events. The main source for gold is probably the DE's and selling the loot spawned from event/dungeon chests; few events have static triggers. This means that bots and macros don't have a static field of creeps that are worth anything to farm all day on. Further, the aggro mechanics are not like in other games, you won't be able to trail a huge mob of enemies to a choke point to have an ally farm them.
Will people still try to farm lots and lots of gold? Without a doubt. Will botters be able to hyper-inflate the market with gold? Highly doubtful.
I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.
Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?
I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.
Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?
Very few will agree with you that boosts are P2W
I am one of them. Being able to level or gain Karma faster doesn't bother me. New players will be joining the game for a long time after release. Why shouldn't they be able to buy a boost item? I might even buy a boost item for my alt if the game is good enough.
I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.
Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?
Very few will agree with you that boosts are P2W
Agreed. Anyone who truely thinks Boosts are Pay 2 Win have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, knows nothing of the genre, or just plain trolls.
If GW2 is anything like GW1, having a ton of gold wont mean anything. If you were rich in GW1 it meant you could get rare mini pets, afford the mats for a cosmetically appealing set of armor, or a kewl weapon skin. Seems to me that GW2 will operate in a similar fashion.
Lets just wait for release and see how the system plays out. I'm sure if it needs tweeking, Anet will be fast to react and make the necessary changes.
I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.
Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?
Very few will agree with you that boosts are P2W
Agreed. Anyone who truely thinks Boosts are Pay 2 Win have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, knows nothing of the genre, or just plain trolls.
yea,there should be better boost items ,but its still in beta so i hope those will be in-game when it hits live,because im not a troll,i know everything about the genre,so boost are the best ,now we just need better boosts,like,potion of holymoses = gives all items in the game, trousers of death = kill all enemies in the map,ring of Chuck Norris = neverending healthbar , love potion No:42 = all quests completed, etc ,boosts are here to stay ,rest go away!
I am surprised at how uninformed this writer is. They claim to be a long time RoM player yet they know very little about WHY RoM cash shop has failed.
1. Most diamonds purchased are NOT tradeable. THAT alone is why diamonds cost so much from players. Basically they offer diamond specials every 2-3 weeks and none of those special diamonds are tradable.. and only when you buy them from specific sellers can they be traded.
2. RoM is a P2W system. If you want to play RoM even remotely competetively(meaning like join a guild and do raids) you can expect to pay anywhere from 30-100 RL dollars a month...this is ridiculous for a "F2P" game IMO. So when you add the lack of tradeable diamonds to the VERY high demand.
if the writer added these very bits of info to the article I think it would have been a very different article.
he talked about the fact that Diamonds used to be tradable in RoM, and that's when it went bad, hence why they stopped making them tradable. and then speculated that it could possibly be a flaw in Gw2 design of the system. he seemed very well informed.
He might be right of course, but RoMs cashshop sells gear with stats and similar things so it isn't neccesarily true for GW2 as well.
To be honest does the stuff GW2 peddle you seems like junk with just different appearance or that make you level faster, you can´t compare that with selling gear that is far above standard gear.
oh i agree. i dont think gw2 will be pay to win at all. but he didnt compare that part of RoM to Gw2. he compared the parts he saw a similar. the trading of gems for gold.
he also said in the comments that p2w = pay to look good.
I completely disregard anything that person as to say after I know his thought process
HAHAHA to the OP's link. One if you think RoM's cash shop will be anything like GW2 you are smoking crack I played RoM 3 years from beta and there CS went from ok at the start to major fast P2W. You can only get the Puri stones from the CS that clean Rip stats from gear this gets expensive fast when it takes 4 per peice of gear. Then times that by 4 so now we are 4x4 per peice of gear and this goes for every peice of gear from lvl 50 to what ever cap is and you should change out your gear every 5 lvls or so to stay up above the power of the mobs in normal zones using stats from quest gear and white armor this isnt raids that you have to have the best gear for from running instances. Also they have a major death penalty in this game like EQ:OA where you get massive EXP dept that takes ethier all your dailys to get rid of or buy an item in the CS to remove it. Next add the fact that if you wan ta mount you can only get them from the CS. This game you have to use the CS and not just $30 to $100 will cover the cost to get oyu going try $1000 to $2000 a month and your alot closer. If GW2 is anywhere near this I wouldn't waste my time but they said nothing in there CS is P2W its mostly cosmedic gear and exp scrolls and like another poster said thats for lazy people who want to speed lvl in a game where the lvling curve is flat not vertical like all other games. So yeah please OP link to real articals cause like I said comparying this to RoM put a huge smile across my face at how thie writer is so just plain stupied and the diamonds where removed from the AH for more then just fraud they cost more on the ah then he stated sometimes they stayed a steady 100k for a month or 2 if sales where going on.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Since everything I've heard about WvW indicates that gear and level will have some effect on player strength (gear isn't equalized and a level 80 has access to skills that a level 1 doesn't), being able to level faster than a non cash shop user does matter.
And WvW was what I was most looking forward to.
Someone leveling faster matters a whole lot..?
You do realize that if you started playing ANY themepark game out there some time after launch, it would be the same thing?
People would have more gold than you, be higher level and have better gear, so someone starting a month after launch might as well not bother at all then... and since the gear in most of those games have a heavy vertical progression it would take a lot more time to catch up than it will in GW2.
Time is the difference, and in GW2 people can buy time... and the leveling curve goes flat after lvl 20, so a lvl 80 wont be as far ahead as he would be in most other games.
1) More players means more players banging on the door trying to exploit the system. RMT has its own set of standards that HAVE to work correctly or things break inside and outside of the game. AN may think they have enough protection in place to stop it, but when the attacks start, they can possibly find out otherwise. This Gold to Gems to Gold system is a calculated risk.
2) A Golden Rule of MMORPG's is that what a developer says today applies for today. They are under NO OBLIGATION to stick to their words 1 week, 1 month, or 1 year into the future. No matter how many people scream LIARS at them, developers throw change-ups all the time, based on their business decisions. If the game has slipped from a peak population and AN feels they have nothing to lose and $$$ to gain, you'll see PTW items as they cash out one more time on the game. A new boss could arrive and do it even if the game is thriving, just because they think $$$ > loss of players.
Shorter: ArenaNet can change their minds anytime, for any reason, and therefore trusting them to stick to their guns is foolhardy.
It's unfair to AN, really, if they really do never intend to soup up the cash shop. They can blame their fellow developers for poisoning the trust well.
1) More players means more players banging on the door trying to exploit the system. RMT has its own set of standards that HAVE to work correctly or things break inside and outside of the game. AN may think they have enough protection in place to stop it, but when the attacks start, they can possibly find out otherwise. This Gold to Gems to Gold system is a calculated risk.
2) A Golden Rule of MMORPG's is that what a developer says today applies for today. They are under NO OBLIGATION to stick to their words 1 week, 1 month, or 1 year into the future. No matter how many people scream LIARS at them, developers throw change-ups all the time, based on their business decisions. If the game has slipped from a peak population and AN feels they have nothing to lose and $$$ to gain, you'll see PTW items as they cash out one more time on the game. A new boss could arrive and do it even if the game is thriving, just because they think $$$ > loss of players.
Shorter: ArenaNet can change their minds anytime, for any reason, and therefore trusting them to stick to their guns is foolhardy.
It's unfair to AN, really, if they really do never intend to soup up the cash shop. They can blame their fellow developers for poisoning the trust well.
I would prefer if I choose to play this game, that the community were HUGE. Anyone who has been around MMO's for any length of time especially the past few years will notice that games without a lot of people either die off completely or go heavy down the cash shop road. I keep seeing people around these forums and others telling people fine, be gone if you aren't happy! Very silly. Chase everyone away, make a smaller community world wide and that is not good at all. And I agree, they can blame fellow devs from other games who have gone this way, people come here from many games, some multiple games and they have their own experiences, some good, some pretty bad. Again, I dunno how this will turn out. For the good I hope, we'll see.
1) More players means more players banging on the door trying to exploit the system. <snip>
I think my worry is the opposite of yours though I understand where you are coming from. I would prefer if I choose to play this game, that the community were HUGE. <snip>
I would rather have a small tight-knit community (~200 to 500k) of mature anf helpful people rather than millions of people who flame every aspect of the game that they are playing (as seen in WoW), spam general channels with racist, sexist or other completely innane comments (as seen in WoW, EQ, Rift, TERA-B, TOR) and/or have the social-graces of a mentally incompetent wombat (as seen in general society, as well as most MMOs).
I would rather have a small tight-knit community (~200 to 500k) of mature anf helpful people rather than millions of people who flame every aspect of the game that they are playing (as seen in WoW), spam general channels with racist, sexist or other completely innane comments (as seen in WoW, EQ, Rift, TERA-B, TOR) and/or have the social-graces of a mentally incompetent wombat (as seen in general society, as well as most MMOs).
Oh man, I hear ya. I don't like that aspect either. I don't think there is a win/win situation. I don't know what the answer is but I don't think those numbers could sustain the game to NCSoft's liking for long. Seriously, they are a business. Businesses are about profit. They have share holders to answer to. I don't begrudge them that because I know that's how our society has gone. Maybe gaming will never be the same again, ie the way you describe without all the current crap we contend with in games. I remember those days too trust me. MAYBE those days are gone. Sad thought.
Just wanted to take issue with two things from the article.
First, apparently, the way the GW2 marketplace works, (being "global", rather than server wide), doesn't allow players to pick a particular listing of an item to purchase. You know how many are listed, the price range of those listings, but I believe you always purchase from among the lowest priced offerings of that item. So, gold farmers transfering money via AH just isn't practical. You can't even trade face to face with other players, just via the near instant in game mail system, (which delivers the item to you via pigeon). Arenanet will have a much easier time tracking transactions, cutting off avenues for gold seller money transfers and uncovering gold seller activity in the community.
Second, gaming the system. There is no add on support for GW2 and botting is bannable. I don't expect player botting for gold to be much of an issue and since you can't convert gems back into $$$, it wouldn't be something a player would do for profit anyway. So, assuming that most player based gold "farming" will be for personal in game wealth and access to cash shop items, who cares if someone decides they want to spend eight hours a day farming mobs honestly, in order to accumulate gold and use that gold to buy gems for cash shop items? It's just one more way in which a player can chose to play the game.
Are we honestly going to be upset with or jealous of someone who has more free time and decides to devote their play time to honest in game wealth accumulation?
I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.
Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?
Because the boosts:
- are not useable in PvP
- they are only time savers for people that want to level even faster than GW2 offers due to their limited playtime
- the only "advantage" you would have towards me (as example) would be that you level faster than me and reach higher levels faster then me which I could care less since I want to enjoy the game instead of rushing through it for no good reason at all and have the time to do so.
- you don't need to reach max level to enter pvp with a pve character
- you don't need to enter pvp with a pve character at all since you can directly created a pvp character and jump into the action with the max armor equipped on you and all the weapons the class you choose can use in your inventory so you can pick any type of weapon your class can use and enjoy pvp the way you want to without any limitations towards someone that uses a pve character.
The weapons skills are all there too.
So there is no p2w cause there is nothing you can win.
This game is all about equality and it stays that way even with such boosters.
1) More players means more players banging on the door trying to exploit the system. RMT has its own set of standards that HAVE to work correctly or things break inside and outside of the game. AN may think they have enough protection in place to stop it, but when the attacks start, they can possibly find out otherwise. This Gold to Gems to Gold system is a calculated risk.
2) A Golden Rule of MMORPG's is that what a developer says today applies for today. They are under NO OBLIGATION to stick to their words 1 week, 1 month, or 1 year into the future. No matter how many people scream LIARS at them, developers throw change-ups all the time, based on their business decisions. If the game has slipped from a peak population and AN feels they have nothing to lose and $$$ to gain, you'll see PTW items as they cash out one more time on the game. A new boss could arrive and do it even if the game is thriving, just because they think $$$ > loss of players.
Shorter: ArenaNet can change their minds anytime, for any reason, and therefore trusting them to stick to their guns is foolhardy.
It's unfair to AN, really, if they really do never intend to soup up the cash shop. They can blame their fellow developers for poisoning the trust well.
I would prefer if I choose to play this game, that the community were HUGE. Anyone who has been around MMO's for any length of time especially the past few years will notice that games without a lot of people either die off completely or go heavy down the cash shop road. I keep seeing people around these forums and others telling people fine, be gone if you aren't happy! Very silly. Chase everyone away, make a smaller community world wide and that is not good at all. And I agree, they can blame fellow devs from other games who have gone this way, people come here from many games, some multiple games and they have their own experiences, some good, some pretty bad. Again, I dunno how this will turn out. For the good I hope, we'll see.
We definitely want more players. The more the better as far as RMT issues go. With the Marketplace being "global", rather than server wide, the larger the population, the more impossible it becomes for a determined individual, or even conspiracy of individuals, to manipulate the marketplace.
If the game has three million players participating in the Marketplace economy, with all those resources, crafted goods and item drops on a shared Marketplace, it just becomes impossible for someone to buy up all of a resource in order to corner the market and force the prices higher.
From what I understand, you always purchase from the lowest priced offerings of a particular item, so you don't even have to worry about fraud in the form of people making listings intended to trigger an accidental purchase at much higher than market prices. I also believe you can't see the name of the seller, so you can't even use the Marketplace to transfer money to certain individuals.
The Gem system might be an issue with a server specific Marketplace. However, a shared economy with perhaps millions of participants really negates most efforts at deliberate manipulation.
I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.
People, how can you be so naive ?
The only goal of the publisher of every game is to make as much money as possible. If they see a chance to milk you they wont say "No, we cant do that. We have a good heart" .
First they sell the game to a giant prince and a cash shop that is not pay to win. Then slowly after and after they will make the goods in the cash shop more attraktive and more of "need to buy". Is all a strategy and the goal is to milk as much money as possible out of the players. I dont blame them for that, thats their job.
But thinking that you can play the game for lets say over a year, without spending any money and have no disadvantage is so damn poor naive as a 4 year old child.
I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.
Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?
Before you try to claim something is "not good for ones argument", you actually need to provide one of your own. Something like "Boosts are Pay-2-win because of yada yada". Just making a very basic sentence with less meat on its bone than a bleached skeleton isn't a shining example of an argument.
In structured PvP, your levels are boosted to the cap, which removes what little "help" an exp booster would provide. You earn experience in all forms of PvP, and in the case of WvWvW there is a range of content available to contribute for despite one's level.
And in PvE, your level can be kicked down in areas so as not to provide an obscene advantage like you usually see in games (no killing a lvl 5 npc as an 80 for instance). So over-leveling in an area isn't going to do jack squat for you.
The ONLY advantage quicker leveling would provide is quicker access to trait lines and points for it. Yet that isn't going to provide an obscene advantage either.
You are right, and the other forumer that answered me also. Sorry about that.
But, the core of the matter is, ArenaNet needs to have items in the shop that are attractive. They can be careful as not to unbalance the gameplay, or give something that can be unfair. But this is a very tricky balance. If there aren't enough spenders, the balance will shift towards P2W. And even if they don't, if you don't spend you will feel frustrated, because the shop items *have* to be attractive for the system to work.
And after a period, the game will go F2P to get more spenders. Maybe.
I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.
People, how can you be so naive ?
The only goal of the publisher of every game is to make as much money as possible. If they see a chance to milk you they wont say "No, we cant do that. We have a good heart" .
First they sell the game to a giant prince and a cash shop that is not pay to win. Then slowly after and after they will make the goods in the cash shop more attraktive and more of "need to buy". Is all a strategy and the goal is to milk as much money as possible out of the players. I dont blame them for that, thats their job.
But thinking that you can play the game for lets say over a year, without spending any money and have no disadvantage is so damn poor naive as a 4 year old child.
I dont get what you dont understand, the minute anet decides to sell things that add power to characters is the moment the masses stop playing/spending money on there game. they only way to maxamize profit would be to sell things like they are selling now
It will come down to make 10,000 dollars from a small niche group that likes pay to win or 1,000,000 doallars from the masses of small transactions that dont like p2w
I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.
People, how can you be so naive ?
The only goal of the publisher of every game is to make as much money as possible. If they see a chance to milk you they wont say "No, we cant do that. We have a good heart" .
First they sell the game to a giant prince and a cash shop that is not pay to win. Then slowly after and after they will make the goods in the cash shop more attraktive and more of "need to buy". Is all a strategy and the goal is to milk as much money as possible out of the players. I dont blame them for that, thats their job.
But thinking that you can play the game for lets say over a year, without spending any money and have no disadvantage is so damn poor naive as a 4 year old child.
Guess what? I played GW for 5+ years and the only money I spent was to get the additional chapters that I didn't even really needed to enjoy the game.
They gave additional content through patches (sorrows furnace and so on...) and the extra chapters were stand alone games that people that were interested could buy and play them without the need to have ANY of the other chapters.
The only real expansion that were also sold in lower price was Eye of the North and it was worth every single cent I spent on it.
What disadvantages will be there in a system like that one tha already exists in GW2?
You have the choice to:
- create a pve character and play to max level
- create a pvp character and jump immediately into pvp as max level
Exactly the same things like in GW with no disadvantages.
If anyone wants to buy xp boosts only because their gaming time is very limited and want to progress or rather rush fast through the game in their pve time then so be it.
It's their choice and I accept it. Should I be jealous about it?
These boost items are only time savers for people that want to get them.
It doesn't provide any real advantage over someone that don't want to spend except of time.
That means that if you have the time to play often and long, then you could care less since the leveling in GW and GW2 is going fast anyway and the XP Curve is very flat compared to other MMOs in which you need partially weeks to gain another level if you don't grind the same thing over and over daily.
So the main point here is the difference GW had brought into the mmos and which GW2 wants to continue.
I know I will probably spend a few euros for a costume I might like or a dye or something but in my opinion it will be worth it cause I know I'm supporting a developer that is worth spending on and most of all one that is trying to be innovative and cares about my playing experience instead of being lazy and go the traditional way almost everyone else is going, bringing out one clone after another.
it is extremely annoying to read or interact with someone who loves to make up arguments even if unfounded just for the sake of seeing their own words in writting...
It seemed as if he wrote his article without having any understanding what so ever of the GW2 cash shop and how the gems system will work.. Just ignorant at best.
That is all I saw in his entire article and his follow up threads replying to the readers underneath the article..
Its like arguing with a google search that goes off in any path connected to one word out of context of the complete conversation.
Okay read this carefully connecting the term Pay 2 Win with Guild Wars 2 which is a game highly focused on PVP(Combat)
The writer of this article, in a reply to a reader, under his article stated this: "The term is faulty in my opinion. One reason is that is assumes it has to be combat, when combat is not the only thing people want."
When I read this all I kept thinking was.. really?...really...? GW2 is going to be about vanity 2 win = p2w? How stupid does this writer think we are? we are talking about Hello Kitty Online or some stupid fashion game we are talking about a HEAVY COMBAT ORIENTED GAME.
The argument he places "P2W can mean so many different things" is asinine and completely ignorant as well as out of conjuction to what the normal and majority of the gaming community relates to the term.
Most logical gamers don't twist idea's and thoughts just to cause a theoretical argument for the sake of the unrealistic ignorant possibility that the meaning has changed for this PVP focused COMBAT GAME.
GW2 is not focusing on vanity to be the real "Winner" of GW2 and to make this argument is simply asinine and rediculious.
GW2 is going to focus on World vs World PvP. Nobody in the PvE world is going to care if someone else has nicer set of vanity clothes then yell and scream "UNFAIR!! You spent more money then me now you win!!! Cause you Look Better" just silly and stupid.
Now what most of us would be logically upset over is if you could purchase items from the cash shop that gave you an advantage in PvP over people who do not purchase items in the cash shop. THIS = P2W not some stupid ilogical make up a idiotic argument for the hell of it.
but what if P2W in GW2 means who has the best vanity items? well what if monkeys fly out my azz?? equally important and equally meaningless as was this article...
it is extremely annoying to read or interact with someone who loves to make up arguments even if unfounded just for the sake of seeing their own words in writting...
It seemed as if he wrote his article without having any understanding what so ever of the GW2 cash shop and how the gems system will work.. Just ignorant at best.
That is all I saw in his entire article and his follow up threads replying to the readers underneath the article..
Its like arguing with a google search that goes off in any path connected to one word out of context of the complete conversation.
Okay read this carefully connecting the term Pay 2 Win with Guild Wars 2 which is a game highly focused on PVP(Combat)
The writer of this article, in a reply to a reader, under his article stated this: "The term is faulty in my opinion. One reason is that is assumes it has to be combat, when combat is not the only thing people want."
When I read this all I kept thinking was.. really?...really...? GW2 is going to be about vanity 2 win = p2w? How stupid does this writer think we are? we are talking about Hello Kitty Online or some stupid fashion game we are talking about a HEAVY COMBAT ORIENTED GAME.
The argument he places "P2W can mean so many different things" is asinine and completely ignorant as well as out of conjuction to what the normal and majority of the gaming community relates to the term.
Most logical gamers don't twist idea's and thoughts just to cause a theoretical argument for the sake of the unrealistic ignorant possibility that the meaning has changed for this PVP focused COMBAT GAME.
GW2 is not focusing on vanity to be the real "Winner" of GW2 and to make this argument is simply asinine and rediculious.
GW2 is going to focus on World vs World PvP. Nobody in the PvE world is going to care if someone else has nicer set of vanity clothes then yell and scream "UNFAIR!! You spent more money then me now you win!!! Cause you Look Better" just silly and stupid.
Now what most of us would be logically upset over is if you could purchase items from the cash shop that gave you an advantage in PvP over people who do not purchase items in the cash shop. THIS = P2W not some stupid ilogical make up a idiotic argument for the hell of it.
but what if P2W in GW2 means who has the best vanity items? well what if monkeys fly out my azz?? equally important and equally meaningless as was this article...
I don't agree that there is 'one true way' to P2W or play a game.
If that was true, WoW wouldn't sell the various mounts by the millions.
Different folks have different goals and I find this post extremely arrogant as it is calling out one playstyle as 'better' or 'silly'.
Having a debate is all about thinking the other person as an equal.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Comments
A cash shop Influence boost of sorts will only work well for a guild, if everyone got it and I doubt any guild can get everyone to fork over cash for for the boost, when there is already an in-game way to boost your entire guild's influence gains. Same with PvP. Be a part of a PvP guild and boost your Glory gains. Even if the shop sold a Glory booster, it still isn't "Pay-to-Win" with GW2's normalized PvP gear system. Not even going to waste my time talking about loot.
I'm sure there will be hardcore guilds that encourage everyone to buy the bonus. Yes, you can get bonuses through the guild system, but they'll probably stack with the bonuses from pots (if there are even pots in the cash shop, it's all speculation at this point) so you'll be getting a double bonus. Depending on the scale of the bonuses, this could be a huge advantage starting out for a guild with loads of members willing to pay for the boosts. Not only will they acquire the bonuses faster (such as a 3% karma boost) than a non-paying guild, but they'll also have the bonuses of the potions themselves on top of that creating a large gap in their favor out of the gate.
One crux of the issue that I see people arguing about is the gold farmers. Gold farmers operate in one of two ways: 1) they hack other people's accounts to steal loot and gold, or 2) they program a bot operation or make macros.
Anet basically already has both of these farming venues closed down.
With the original GW, Anet has an impeccable track record with account security; I see no reason for it to be any different with GW2.
Second, botting and macro'ing are basically null and void for one reason: Dynamic Events. The main source for gold is probably the DE's and selling the loot spawned from event/dungeon chests; few events have static triggers. This means that bots and macros don't have a static field of creeps that are worth anything to farm all day on. Further, the aggro mechanics are not like in other games, you won't be able to trail a huge mob of enemies to a choke point to have an ally farm them.
Will people still try to farm lots and lots of gold? Without a doubt. Will botters be able to hyper-inflate the market with gold? Highly doubtful.
Very few will agree with you that boosts are P2W
I am one of them. Being able to level or gain Karma faster doesn't bother me. New players will be joining the game for a long time after release. Why shouldn't they be able to buy a boost item? I might even buy a boost item for my alt if the game is good enough.
Agreed. Anyone who truely thinks Boosts are Pay 2 Win have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, knows nothing of the genre, or just plain trolls.
If GW2 is anything like GW1, having a ton of gold wont mean anything. If you were rich in GW1 it meant you could get rare mini pets, afford the mats for a cosmetically appealing set of armor, or a kewl weapon skin. Seems to me that GW2 will operate in a similar fashion.
Lets just wait for release and see how the system plays out. I'm sure if it needs tweeking, Anet will be fast to react and make the necessary changes.
Guild Wars 2 Gamers - A Social Networking Fansite
yea,there should be better boost items ,but its still in beta so i hope those will be in-game when it hits live,because im not a troll,i know everything about the genre,so boost are the best ,now we just need better boosts,like,potion of holymoses = gives all items in the game, trousers of death = kill all enemies in the map,ring of Chuck Norris = neverending healthbar , love potion No:42 = all quests completed, etc ,boosts are here to stay ,rest go away!
better boosts = better game,right?
Let's internet
he also said in the comments that p2w = pay to look good.
I completely disregard anything that person as to say after I know his thought process
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
HAHAHA to the OP's link. One if you think RoM's cash shop will be anything like GW2 you are smoking crack I played RoM 3 years from beta and there CS went from ok at the start to major fast P2W. You can only get the Puri stones from the CS that clean Rip stats from gear this gets expensive fast when it takes 4 per peice of gear. Then times that by 4 so now we are 4x4 per peice of gear and this goes for every peice of gear from lvl 50 to what ever cap is and you should change out your gear every 5 lvls or so to stay up above the power of the mobs in normal zones using stats from quest gear and white armor this isnt raids that you have to have the best gear for from running instances. Also they have a major death penalty in this game like EQ:OA where you get massive EXP dept that takes ethier all your dailys to get rid of or buy an item in the CS to remove it. Next add the fact that if you wan ta mount you can only get them from the CS. This game you have to use the CS and not just $30 to $100 will cover the cost to get oyu going try $1000 to $2000 a month and your alot closer. If GW2 is anywhere near this I wouldn't waste my time but they said nothing in there CS is P2W its mostly cosmedic gear and exp scrolls and like another poster said thats for lazy people who want to speed lvl in a game where the lvling curve is flat not vertical like all other games. So yeah please OP link to real articals cause like I said comparying this to RoM put a huge smile across my face at how thie writer is so just plain stupied and the diamonds where removed from the AH for more then just fraud they cost more on the ah then he stated sometimes they stayed a steady 100k for a month or 2 if sales where going on.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
The deal was limited. With any costume that comes in a pair, they offer both costumes for $15.00 instead of each for $10.00.
Someone leveling faster matters a whole lot..?
You do realize that if you started playing ANY themepark game out there some time after launch, it would be the same thing?
People would have more gold than you, be higher level and have better gear, so someone starting a month after launch might as well not bother at all then... and since the gear in most of those games have a heavy vertical progression it would take a lot more time to catch up than it will in GW2.
Time is the difference, and in GW2 people can buy time... and the leveling curve goes flat after lvl 20, so a lvl 80 wont be as far ahead as he would be in most other games.
Two things I worry about:
1) More players means more players banging on the door trying to exploit the system. RMT has its own set of standards that HAVE to work correctly or things break inside and outside of the game. AN may think they have enough protection in place to stop it, but when the attacks start, they can possibly find out otherwise. This Gold to Gems to Gold system is a calculated risk.
2) A Golden Rule of MMORPG's is that what a developer says today applies for today. They are under NO OBLIGATION to stick to their words 1 week, 1 month, or 1 year into the future. No matter how many people scream LIARS at them, developers throw change-ups all the time, based on their business decisions. If the game has slipped from a peak population and AN feels they have nothing to lose and $$$ to gain, you'll see PTW items as they cash out one more time on the game. A new boss could arrive and do it even if the game is thriving, just because they think $$$ > loss of players.
Shorter: ArenaNet can change their minds anytime, for any reason, and therefore trusting them to stick to their guns is foolhardy.
It's unfair to AN, really, if they really do never intend to soup up the cash shop. They can blame their fellow developers for poisoning the trust well.
Avatars are people too
I would prefer if I choose to play this game, that the community were HUGE. Anyone who has been around MMO's for any length of time especially the past few years will notice that games without a lot of people either die off completely or go heavy down the cash shop road. I keep seeing people around these forums and others telling people fine, be gone if you aren't happy! Very silly. Chase everyone away, make a smaller community world wide and that is not good at all. And I agree, they can blame fellow devs from other games who have gone this way, people come here from many games, some multiple games and they have their own experiences, some good, some pretty bad. Again, I dunno how this will turn out. For the good I hope, we'll see.
One of life's lil hand grenades
I would rather have a small tight-knit community (~200 to 500k) of mature anf helpful people rather than millions of people who flame every aspect of the game that they are playing (as seen in WoW), spam general channels with racist, sexist or other completely innane comments (as seen in WoW, EQ, Rift, TERA-B, TOR) and/or have the social-graces of a mentally incompetent wombat (as seen in general society, as well as most MMOs).
Oh man, I hear ya. I don't like that aspect either. I don't think there is a win/win situation. I don't know what the answer is but I don't think those numbers could sustain the game to NCSoft's liking for long. Seriously, they are a business. Businesses are about profit. They have share holders to answer to. I don't begrudge them that because I know that's how our society has gone. Maybe gaming will never be the same again, ie the way you describe without all the current crap we contend with in games. I remember those days too trust me. MAYBE those days are gone. Sad thought.
One of life's lil hand grenades
Just wanted to take issue with two things from the article.
First, apparently, the way the GW2 marketplace works, (being "global", rather than server wide), doesn't allow players to pick a particular listing of an item to purchase. You know how many are listed, the price range of those listings, but I believe you always purchase from among the lowest priced offerings of that item. So, gold farmers transfering money via AH just isn't practical. You can't even trade face to face with other players, just via the near instant in game mail system, (which delivers the item to you via pigeon). Arenanet will have a much easier time tracking transactions, cutting off avenues for gold seller money transfers and uncovering gold seller activity in the community.
Second, gaming the system. There is no add on support for GW2 and botting is bannable. I don't expect player botting for gold to be much of an issue and since you can't convert gems back into $$$, it wouldn't be something a player would do for profit anyway. So, assuming that most player based gold "farming" will be for personal in game wealth and access to cash shop items, who cares if someone decides they want to spend eight hours a day farming mobs honestly, in order to accumulate gold and use that gold to buy gems for cash shop items? It's just one more way in which a player can chose to play the game.
Are we honestly going to be upset with or jealous of someone who has more free time and decides to devote their play time to honest in game wealth accumulation?
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Because the boosts:
- are not useable in PvP
- they are only time savers for people that want to level even faster than GW2 offers due to their limited playtime
- the only "advantage" you would have towards me (as example) would be that you level faster than me and reach higher levels faster then me which I could care less since I want to enjoy the game instead of rushing through it for no good reason at all and have the time to do so.
- you don't need to reach max level to enter pvp with a pve character
- you don't need to enter pvp with a pve character at all since you can directly created a pvp character and jump into the action with the max armor equipped on you and all the weapons the class you choose can use in your inventory so you can pick any type of weapon your class can use and enjoy pvp the way you want to without any limitations towards someone that uses a pve character.
The weapons skills are all there too.
So there is no p2w cause there is nothing you can win.
This game is all about equality and it stays that way even with such boosters.
We definitely want more players. The more the better as far as RMT issues go. With the Marketplace being "global", rather than server wide, the larger the population, the more impossible it becomes for a determined individual, or even conspiracy of individuals, to manipulate the marketplace.
If the game has three million players participating in the Marketplace economy, with all those resources, crafted goods and item drops on a shared Marketplace, it just becomes impossible for someone to buy up all of a resource in order to corner the market and force the prices higher.
From what I understand, you always purchase from the lowest priced offerings of a particular item, so you don't even have to worry about fraud in the form of people making listings intended to trigger an accidental purchase at much higher than market prices. I also believe you can't see the name of the seller, so you can't even use the Marketplace to transfer money to certain individuals.
The Gem system might be an issue with a server specific Marketplace. However, a shared economy with perhaps millions of participants really negates most efforts at deliberate manipulation.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
People, how can you be so naive ?
The only goal of the publisher of every game is to make as much money as possible. If they see a chance to milk you they wont say "No, we cant do that. We have a good heart" .
First they sell the game to a giant prince and a cash shop that is not pay to win. Then slowly after and after they will make the goods in the cash shop more attraktive and more of "need to buy". Is all a strategy and the goal is to milk as much money as possible out of the players. I dont blame them for that, thats their job.
But thinking that you can play the game for lets say over a year, without spending any money and have no disadvantage is so damn poor naive as a 4 year old child.
You are right, and the other forumer that answered me also. Sorry about that.
But, the core of the matter is, ArenaNet needs to have items in the shop that are attractive. They can be careful as not to unbalance the gameplay, or give something that can be unfair. But this is a very tricky balance. If there aren't enough spenders, the balance will shift towards P2W. And even if they don't, if you don't spend you will feel frustrated, because the shop items *have* to be attractive for the system to work.
And after a period, the game will go F2P to get more spenders. Maybe.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
I dont get what you dont understand, the minute anet decides to sell things that add power to characters is the moment the masses stop playing/spending money on there game. they only way to maxamize profit would be to sell things like they are selling now
It will come down to make 10,000 dollars from a small niche group that likes pay to win or 1,000,000 doallars from the masses of small transactions that dont like p2w
Guess what? I played GW for 5+ years and the only money I spent was to get the additional chapters that I didn't even really needed to enjoy the game.
They gave additional content through patches (sorrows furnace and so on...) and the extra chapters were stand alone games that people that were interested could buy and play them without the need to have ANY of the other chapters.
The only real expansion that were also sold in lower price was Eye of the North and it was worth every single cent I spent on it.
What disadvantages will be there in a system like that one tha already exists in GW2?
You have the choice to:
- create a pve character and play to max level
- create a pvp character and jump immediately into pvp as max level
Exactly the same things like in GW with no disadvantages.
If anyone wants to buy xp boosts only because their gaming time is very limited and want to progress or rather rush fast through the game in their pve time then so be it.
It's their choice and I accept it. Should I be jealous about it?
These boost items are only time savers for people that want to get them.
It doesn't provide any real advantage over someone that don't want to spend except of time.
That means that if you have the time to play often and long, then you could care less since the leveling in GW and GW2 is going fast anyway and the XP Curve is very flat compared to other MMOs in which you need partially weeks to gain another level if you don't grind the same thing over and over daily.
So the main point here is the difference GW had brought into the mmos and which GW2 wants to continue.
I know I will probably spend a few euros for a costume I might like or a dye or something but in my opinion it will be worth it cause I know I'm supporting a developer that is worth spending on and most of all one that is trying to be innovative and cares about my playing experience instead of being lazy and go the traditional way almost everyone else is going, bringing out one clone after another.
it is extremely annoying to read or interact with someone who loves to make up arguments even if unfounded just for the sake of seeing their own words in writting...
It seemed as if he wrote his article without having any understanding what so ever of the GW2 cash shop and how the gems system will work.. Just ignorant at best.
That is all I saw in his entire article and his follow up threads replying to the readers underneath the article..
Its like arguing with a google search that goes off in any path connected to one word out of context of the complete conversation.
Okay read this carefully connecting the term Pay 2 Win with Guild Wars 2 which is a game highly focused on PVP(Combat)
The writer of this article, in a reply to a reader, under his article stated this: "The term is faulty in my opinion. One reason is that is assumes it has to be combat, when combat is not the only thing people want."
When I read this all I kept thinking was.. really?...really...? GW2 is going to be about vanity 2 win = p2w? How stupid does this writer think we are? we are talking about Hello Kitty Online or some stupid fashion game we are talking about a HEAVY COMBAT ORIENTED GAME.
The argument he places "P2W can mean so many different things" is asinine and completely ignorant as well as out of conjuction to what the normal and majority of the gaming community relates to the term.
Most logical gamers don't twist idea's and thoughts just to cause a theoretical argument for the sake of the unrealistic ignorant possibility that the meaning has changed for this PVP focused COMBAT GAME.
GW2 is not focusing on vanity to be the real "Winner" of GW2 and to make this argument is simply asinine and rediculious.
GW2 is going to focus on World vs World PvP. Nobody in the PvE world is going to care if someone else has nicer set of vanity clothes then yell and scream "UNFAIR!! You spent more money then me now you win!!! Cause you Look Better" just silly and stupid.
Now what most of us would be logically upset over is if you could purchase items from the cash shop that gave you an advantage in PvP over people who do not purchase items in the cash shop. THIS = P2W not some stupid ilogical make up a idiotic argument for the hell of it.
but what if P2W in GW2 means who has the best vanity items? well what if monkeys fly out my azz?? equally important and equally meaningless as was this article...
I don't agree that there is 'one true way' to P2W or play a game.
If that was true, WoW wouldn't sell the various mounts by the millions.
Different folks have different goals and I find this post extremely arrogant as it is calling out one playstyle as 'better' or 'silly'.
Having a debate is all about thinking the other person as an equal.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.