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Playing Mass Effect 3 makes me hate SWTOR even more

2

Comments

  • AnkurAnkur Member Posts: 334

    Originally posted by Jason2444

    Originally posted by Ankur

    You mean the kind who enjoy what they play? yeah that is exactly what killing MMORPG genre..players having fun!

    No the kind who bought SWTOR because it has Star Wars or Bioware written on it.

    It's fine if you're opinion of SWTOR is that it's a quality MMO, but just know, you're opinion is wrong.

    Opinion is an opinion...even though i never said that but still your opinion isn't any better or right compared to others. However, if it helps you feel better about yourself then sure i won't spoil it for you.

  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,878

    Originally posted by Jason2444

    Originally posted by Celcius

    Hype worked for SWTOR enough to get them 2 million box sales.

    Fixed that for you

    And 1.7 million subs.

  • Jason2444Jason2444 Member Posts: 372

    Originally posted by Celcius

    And 1.7 million subs (As of Feb 1st)

    Fixed that for you.

     

    PS: I swear to god if you link the article telling me they have 1.7 million as of march first, I will demand that you actually read it.

    MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
    Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
    Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts

  • WilyWeaselWilyWeasel Member Posts: 9

    Having completed ME3 and read a lot about SWTOR sounds like they both have lousy endings :)

     

    I wont be playing World of Glowies any time soon, when they add decent crafting, full space combat and huge world areas.. oh and non-combat classes, charactor development along multiple lines and.. etc etc.. Oh yeah.. Lucasarts killed that with NGE.. SWTOR was doomed from inception.

     

     

     

     

  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,878

    Originally posted by Jason2444

    Originally posted by Celcius

    And 1.7 million subs (As of Feb 1st)

    Fixed that for you.

     

    PS: I swear to god if you link the article telling me they have 1.7 million as of march first, I will demand that you actually read it.

    As of March 12th. Nice try though. http://www.techspot.com/news/47755-ea-ceo-talks-mass-effect-3-and-star-wars-numbers.html

  • Cthulhu23Cthulhu23 Member Posts: 994

    Originally posted by Celcius

    Originally posted by Jason2444


    Originally posted by Celcius

    And 1.7 million subs (As of Feb 1st)

    Fixed that for you.

     

    PS: I swear to god if you link the article telling me they have 1.7 million as of march first, I will demand that you actually read it.

    As of March 12th. Nice try though. http://www.techspot.com/news/47755-ea-ceo-talks-mass-effect-3-and-star-wars-numbers.html

    Don't do that to them, Celcius.  It's important for them to believe that Swtor is hemorraging subs left and right, even if it isn't true.  Don't want to burst their bubble.

  • Jason2444Jason2444 Member Posts: 372

    Originally posted by Celcius

    As of March 12th. Nice try though. http://www.techspot.com/news/47755-ea-ceo-talks-mass-effect-3-and-star-wars-numbers.html

    "Star Wars, this is an area that I think has got a lot of people anxious. I've heard from investors today saying that we must have 800,000 subscribers. I heard 600,000 yesterday. So what I think a lot of people have misunderstood is we said we had 1.7 million subscribers on the last call, which was about a month ago. What that was about was the fact that only about – just about half that number had triggered through their 30-day point and become active subscribers, our definition of recurring subscribers. We had about half that total still in the 30-day trial period, but they're subscribers because that first month is including with a package good. What I said a month ago was, just over half.



    I can now confirm for you today that the vast majority of the 1.7 is now triggered through that point and they're recurring subscribers."

     

     

    "I can now confirm for you today that the vast majority of the 1.7 is now triggered through that point and they're recurring subscribers."

    "I CAN NOW CONFIRM FOR YOU TODAY THAT THE VAST MAJORITY"

     

    So let's see. Bet case scenario, SWTOR is losing 20k subs a week since that's how many were being sold up to that point.

    Worst cast: "Vast majority" means 51%

     

    Pick one.

     

    And for a game that has so many subscribers, it sure has a hard time getting more than 5 heavy servers at prime time. But I'm sure that 1.7 million are just working at their job or something.

    MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
    Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
    Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts

  • RefMinorRefMinor Member UncommonPosts: 3,452
    Originally posted by Cthulhu23


    Originally posted by Celcius


    Originally posted by Jason2444



    Originally posted by Celcius
    And 1.7 million subs (As of Feb 1st)

    Fixed that for you.

     

    PS: I swear to god if you link the article telling me they have 1.7 million as of march first, I will demand that you actually read it.

    As of March 12th. Nice try though. http://www.techspot.com/news/47755-ea-ceo-talks-mass-effect-3-and-star-wars-numbers.html

    Don't do that to them, Celcius.  It's important for them to believe that Swtor is hemorraging subs left and right, even if it isn't true.  Don't want to burst their bubble.

     

    Where is the quote where he said that in that article, you should really link to a full version where he was referring to Eric Brown's reporting of the Dec 31st figures being 1.7m and the proportion who had gone on to subscribe, he did not say their current subscription numbers were 1.7m

     

    EDIT: Nice one Jason, I really couldn't be bothered digging up the real quote yet again, I should save it to my hard drive.
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,878

    Originally posted by Jason2444

    Originally posted by Celcius

    As of March 12th. Nice try though. http://www.techspot.com/news/47755-ea-ceo-talks-mass-effect-3-and-star-wars-numbers.html

    "Star Wars, this is an area that I think has got a lot of people anxious. I've heard from investors today saying that we must have 800,000 subscribers. I heard 600,000 yesterday. So what I think a lot of people have misunderstood is we said we had 1.7 million subscribers on the last call, which was about a month ago. What that was about was the fact that only about – just about half that number had triggered through their 30-day point and become active subscribers, our definition of recurring subscribers. We had about half that total still in the 30-day trial period, but they're subscribers because that first month is including with a package good. What I said a month ago was, just over half.



    I can now confirm for you today that the vast majority of the 1.7 is now triggered through that point and they're recurring subscribers."

     

     

    "I can now confirm for you today that the vast majority of the 1.7 is now triggered through that point and they're recurring subscribers."

    "I CAN NOW CONFIRM FOR YOU TODAY THAT THE VAST MAJORITY"

     

    So let's see. Bet case scenario, SWTOR is losing 20k subs a week since that's how many were being sold up to that point.

    Worst cast: "Vast majority" means 51%

     

    Pick one.

     

    And for a game that has so many subscribers, it sure has a hard time getting more than 5 heavy servers at prime time. But I'm sure that 1.7 million are just working at their job or something.

    If you actually read the article source on http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/08/electronic-arts-reveals-new-mass-effect-3-and-star-wars-mmo-numbers/ you would understand that the first earnings call subs were based on most people still being in the free month. Now, there arent really that many left, meaning that while some of the 1.7 million are not reoccuring yet, it means that the people who are not currently reoccuring are only the people who purchased the game between the start of feb and march. I know you want to hate the game just to hate the big corporate jerks who stole your lunch money, but spreading false information by spinning facts in your favor is not helping your pathetic argument.

  • Jason2444Jason2444 Member Posts: 372

    Originally posted by Celcius

    If you actually read the article source on http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/08/electronic-arts-reveals-new-mass-effect-3-and-star-wars-mmo-numbers/ you would understand that the first earnings call subs were based on most people still being in the free month. Now, there arent really that many left, meaning that while some of the 1.7 million are not reoccuring yet, it means that the people who are not currently reoccuring are only the people who purchased the game between the start of feb and march. I know you want to hate the game just to hate the big corporate jerks who stole your lunch money, but spreading false information by spinning facts in your favor is not helping your pathetic argument.

    Thanks for repeating what I just said but with more words.

     

    So, I'll take that as you going for the best case scenario of SWTOR losing 20k subs a month?

    MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
    Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
    Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts

  • RefMinorRefMinor Member UncommonPosts: 3,452
    Originally posted by Celcius


    Originally posted by Jason2444


    Originally posted by Celcius
    As of March 12th. Nice try though. http://www.techspot.com/news/47755-ea-ceo-talks-mass-effect-3-and-star-wars-numbers.html

    "Star Wars, this is an area that I think has got a lot of people anxious. I've heard from investors today saying that we must have 800,000 subscribers. I heard 600,000 yesterday. So what I think a lot of people have misunderstood is we said we had 1.7 million subscribers on the last call, which was about a month ago. What that was about was the fact that only about – just about half that number had triggered through their 30-day point and become active subscribers, our definition of recurring subscribers. We had about half that total still in the 30-day trial period, but they're subscribers because that first month is including with a package good. What I said a month ago was, just over half.



    I can now confirm for you today that the vast majority of the 1.7 is now triggered through that point and they're recurring subscribers."

     

     

    "I can now confirm for you today that the vast majority of the 1.7 is now triggered through that point and they're recurring subscribers."

    "I CAN NOW CONFIRM FOR YOU TODAY THAT THE VAST MAJORITY"

     

    So let's see. Bet case scenario, SWTOR is losing 20k subs a week since that's how many were being sold up to that point.

    Worst cast: "Vast majority" means 51%

     

    Pick one.

     

    And for a game that has so many subscribers, it sure has a hard time getting more than 5 heavy servers at prime time. But I'm sure that 1.7 million are just working at their job or something.

    If you actually read the article source on http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/08/electronic-arts-reveals-new-mass-effect-3-and-star-wars-mmo-numbers/ you would understand that the first earnings call subs were based on most people still being in the free month. Now, there arent really that many left, meaning that while some of the 1.7 million are not reoccuring yet, it means that the people who are not currently reoccuring are only the people who purchased the game between the start of feb and march. I know you want to hate the game just to hate the big corporate jerks who stole your lunch money, but spreading false information by spinning facts in your favor is not helping your pathetic argument.

     

    “vast majority [of players] is now triggered through that point and they’re recurring subscribers.” is the only quote in that article, I suggest you read the full quote which you have replied to.
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,878

    Originally posted by Jason2444

    Originally posted by Celcius

    If you actually read the article source on http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/08/electronic-arts-reveals-new-mass-effect-3-and-star-wars-mmo-numbers/ you would understand that the first earnings call subs were based on most people still being in the free month. Now, there arent really that many left, meaning that while some of the 1.7 million are not reoccuring yet, it means that the people who are not currently reoccuring are only the people who purchased the game between the start of feb and march. I know you want to hate the game just to hate the big corporate jerks who stole your lunch money, but spreading false information by spinning facts in your favor is not helping your pathetic argument.

    Thanks for repeating what I just said but with more words.

     

    So, I'll take that as you going for the best case scenario of SWTOR losing 20k subs a month?

    There you go again with the made up information based off no facts. Once again, as my original argument has not been debunked, nor will it be, (since it is based on fact and not heresay) SWTOR still has 1.7 million subs with the only people not being reoccuring being those who purchased the game in the last month. You don't need to be a math wizard to understand that is nothing but a good thing for the game.

  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,878

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by Celcius

    Originally posted by Jason2444


    Originally posted by Celcius

    As of March 12th. Nice try though. http://www.techspot.com/news/47755-ea-ceo-talks-mass-effect-3-and-star-wars-numbers.html

    "Star Wars, this is an area that I think has got a lot of people anxious. I've heard from investors today saying that we must have 800,000 subscribers. I heard 600,000 yesterday. So what I think a lot of people have misunderstood is we said we had 1.7 million subscribers on the last call, which was about a month ago. What that was about was the fact that only about – just about half that number had triggered through their 30-day point and become active subscribers, our definition of recurring subscribers. We had about half that total still in the 30-day trial period, but they're subscribers because that first month is including with a package good. What I said a month ago was, just over half.



    I can now confirm for you today that the vast majority of the 1.7 is now triggered through that point and they're recurring subscribers."

     

     

    "I can now confirm for you today that the vast majority of the 1.7 is now triggered through that point and they're recurring subscribers."

    "I CAN NOW CONFIRM FOR YOU TODAY THAT THE VAST MAJORITY"

     

    So let's see. Bet case scenario, SWTOR is losing 20k subs a week since that's how many were being sold up to that point.

    Worst cast: "Vast majority" means 51%

     

    Pick one.

     

    And for a game that has so many subscribers, it sure has a hard time getting more than 5 heavy servers at prime time. But I'm sure that 1.7 million are just working at their job or something.

    If you actually read the article source on http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/08/electronic-arts-reveals-new-mass-effect-3-and-star-wars-mmo-numbers/ you would understand that the first earnings call subs were based on most people still being in the free month. Now, there arent really that many left, meaning that while some of the 1.7 million are not reoccuring yet, it means that the people who are not currently reoccuring are only the people who purchased the game between the start of feb and march. I know you want to hate the game just to hate the big corporate jerks who stole your lunch money, but spreading false information by spinning facts in your favor is not helping your pathetic argument.

     

    “vast majority [of players] is now triggered through that point and they’re recurring subscribers.” is the only quote in that article, I suggest you read the full quote which you have replied to.

    But a month ago about half of those players were still in the first 30 days of the subscription period, which is included with the purchase of the game, while the “vast majority [of players] is now triggered through that point and they’re recurring subscribers.

     

    This is what I am referring to. Unless they purchased the game in early Feb, they are reoccuring. Meaning that, unless they sold a TON of copies in Feb, that it is really close to the full 1.7 million subs reoccuring. 

  • Jason2444Jason2444 Member Posts: 372

    Originally posted by Celcius

    There you go again with the made up information based off no facts. Once again, as my original argument has not been debunked, nor will it be, (since it is based on fact and not heresay) SWTOR still has 1.7 million subs with the only people not being reoccuring being those who purchased the game in the last month. You don't need to be a math wizard to understand that is nothing but a good thing for the game.

    [Mod Edit]

     

    "The vast majority of those 1.7 million are recurring subscribers". He didn't say "As of now, we have 1.7 million subscribers"

    But I guess it feels safer for you to beleive that SWTOR has a staggering 100% retention rate, right?

    MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
    Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
    Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

    Okay, cool.  I'm gonna keep playing it anyway, if that's okay with you.  Since I've never played Mass Effect, and am not a big single player rpg guy, I find TOR's story, flaws and all, to be better than any other MMO I've played.  I'm fully aware that the constraints placed on it by being an MMO don't make it as good as a single player storyline, however.  But I'm cool with that.

    TORs story is fine, it is really the mechanics that is the problem with it.

    First of all doesn't it really feel like a mmO to many players because you see so few people ingame in the same place at the same time.

    Secondly don't i for one agree that fantasy games and sci-fi games should use the same mechanics. As I see it can you either choose a mechanic (ibn this case MMO standard mechanics) and create a world that works for it, or you can decide a setting and create the right mechanics for it. In this case they just slapped standard mechanics over the ip without bothering to see if it fit or not.

    In short: EQ/Wow mechanics does not work with the world. Not even close, you don't see any combat healers in the movies and very little looting as well.

    Thirdly is it really hard to use single player story in a MMO, It easily turns into a lot of instances and a few open rather pointless zones where you see other players It would have been a lot easier using that story in a CORPG like GW, STO or DDO.

    TOR is telling a great story, but but the problem is how it tells it. It is like listening to someone that isn´t that good attelling stories who tells an epic story if you get what i mean.

    MMO devs needs to stop looking on other games and try to be like them, they need to create new mechanics that really works for the game like so many single players have done in the past. The same goes for most genres now though, Activision and EA seems to forbid creativety.

    The annoying thing with TOR is that it have the potential to be so much better if they just didn't decide to make something similar to WoW,just like WAR tried a few years back. If they would have put some less work into voice overs and some more to make their own mechanics for the world the game could have been truly great.

    It is still not bad, but not really good either.

     

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy Member UncommonPosts: 2,053

    You cannot compare a single player game with an mmo, you really can't. The mmo will lose every time except for the community aspect.

  • bowzef1990bowzef1990 Member Posts: 56

    I like my RPG games lots!!!

     

    but soon i saw previews and reviews i was like this game looks like a over hype pile of crap just like Moden warfear 3 was im sick of these sites saying its good so people think its good

    BLAH

    ME3 and Bioware failzors

    Evert since Bioware is with EA i lost my respect for them what a major cop out

    I never thought Bioware would care more about money then there games

     

    Go  back to BG1 and 2 ect they cared about ther games now days its just lets make a game to make money

  • Sabic133Sabic133 Member UncommonPosts: 46

    After renting the first ME basically at random I've been hooked on it, besides the ending it has been a great experience overall so I had similar feelings after finishing it.  To bring that level to an MMO would of taken a lot of creativity and innovation, both of which seem to be in short supply with the SWTOR team.

  • GMan3GMan3 Member CommonPosts: 2,127

    Originally posted by Jason2444

    Originally posted by Celcius

    There you go again with the made up information based off no facts. Once again, as my original argument has not been debunked, nor will it be, (since it is based on fact and not heresay) SWTOR still has 1.7 million subs with the only people not being reoccuring being those who purchased the game in the last month. You don't need to be a math wizard to understand that is nothing but a good thing for the game.

    [Mod Edit]

     

    "The vast majority of those 1.7 million are recurring subscribers". He didn't say "As of now, we have 1.7 million subscribers"

    But I guess it feels safer for you to beleive that SWTOR has a staggering 100% retention rate, right?

        Actually it was fairly clearly stated that SWTOR had a drop rate of 15%.  There was after all 2 million units sold and only 1.7 million subscribers.  Just trying to clear up your little misinformation there.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • RefMinorRefMinor Member UncommonPosts: 3,452
    Originally posted by GMan3


    Originally posted by Jason2444


    Originally posted by Celcius
    There you go again with the made up information based off no facts. Once again, as my original argument has not been debunked, nor will it be, (since it is based on fact and not heresay) SWTOR still has 1.7 million subs with the only people not being reoccuring being those who purchased the game in the last month. You don't need to be a math wizard to understand that is nothing but a good thing for the game.

    [Mod Edit]

     

    "The vast majority of those 1.7 million are recurring subscribers". He didn't say "As of now, we have 1.7 million subscribers"

    But I guess it feels safer for you to beleive that SWTOR has a staggering 100% retention rate, right?

        Actually it was fairly clearly stated that SWTOR had a drop rate of 15%.  There was after all 2 million units sold and only 1.7 million subscribers.  Just trying to clear up your little misinformation there.

     

    So you believe that they had an 85% retention rate after 15% quit in the first 8 days?
  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    I agree with OP and I have said this from the start, SW:TOR, in its current form, should have been a single player RPG with some multiplayer elements (like ME 3). It is simply not compatible with MMORPG elements and I think the choice to make it such was based purely on greed and the game does not seem to have been designed to be an MMORPG.

    People are still playing it, great, people are still playing Star Trek Online too. Does not mean that either of them are fit as MMORPGs and a worthy implementation for the IP as an MMORPG.

    SWG was, with all its flaws, a much better MMORPG than SW:TOR will ever be. A real shame that they didn't use all that money to create a big budget SWG 2. What a game that could have been...

  • cutthecrapcutthecrap Member Posts: 600

    This might sound strange, but sometimes I wish that SWG had never existed.

    WoW too, for that matter.

     

    I wonder sometimes how the MMORPG community would've been without those two, somehow I think it'd have been a better one.

  • GMan3GMan3 Member CommonPosts: 2,127

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by GMan3

    Originally posted by Jason2444


    Originally posted by Celcius

    There you go again with the made up information based off no facts. Once again, as my original argument has not been debunked, nor will it be, (since it is based on fact and not heresay) SWTOR still has 1.7 million subs with the only people not being reoccuring being those who purchased the game in the last month. You don't need to be a math wizard to understand that is nothing but a good thing for the game.

    [Mod Edit]

     

    "The vast majority of those 1.7 million are recurring subscribers". He didn't say "As of now, we have 1.7 million subscribers"

    But I guess it feels safer for you to beleive that SWTOR has a staggering 100% retention rate, right?

        Actually it was fairly clearly stated that SWTOR had a drop rate of 15%.  There was after all 2 million units sold and only 1.7 million subscribers.  Just trying to clear up your little misinformation there.

     So you believe that they had an 85% retention rate after 15% quit in the first 8 days?

        No, I believe what I said was that he was wrong when he mocking asked if the previous poster believed there was a 100% retention rate.  I simply showed that BioWare admitted to a loss of players.  To be honest though, your own numbers are flawed in suggesting there was a 15% drop rate in the first 8 days.  It is more likely that the 15% difference (in the first 8 days you mention) would be more accurately described as mostly people who had not started playing the game yet even though the game had been purchased, plus a small number that had already decided to quit playing. 

        At this point though, we do not have any better information at least until the next investor call, so I will not be jumping to conclusions like some people here have.  It seems to me that you, as well as many more, are jumping on the "doom and gloom" bandwagon, while the other poster is trying to get the "roses and daisy" bandwagon rolling on.  Only a few of us are actually looking at this and saying that the true answer is somewhere's in the middle and that both of you types are crazy.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • korvasskorvass Member Posts: 616

    Originally posted by Valentina

    Um, in SWTOR your decisions make all the difference, even regular missions' outcomes will come back at you in the future with the decision's you've made. BioWare has said this a couple of times, it's just a matter of time. In ME1, you didn't see the outcome of your decisions really until ME2, in DA1 you didn't see the outcome of your decisions until DA2 etc...Story updates are on the horizon and your decisions are going to show up.

     

    Your personal story decisions already show the outcome, though to some degree more than any choices you made in their singleplayer games right off the bat.

     

    Edit: Plus, what MMO has come close to what BioWare has given us with SW:TOR right off the bat? Um, none. :)

    As someone who enjoys TOR, I still have to disagree with your initial statement, Valentina.

    I've played all 8 classes through to around 30-50, and decisions made have very little bearing or change to the character, or his/her story. There are some, mostly minor thins, but decisions definitely do not 'make all the difference'.

    But, while I would have wished that to be the case, I never truly expected it, because it's an MMO. They did a great job nonetheless.

    To give you one perfect example, take the Bounty Hunter (spoiler alert):

     

    The BH's second companion plot has you chasing him across Tatooine. He outwits and taunts you at every turn, and basically, by the end of the quest chain, there's no real way you could feel anything but utter, utter hatred toward this individual. You just want to kill him! And, no matter how many dialogue options you choose to that effect (even the, "I wanna blast your face off!"), all you end up with is this:

    Him: "I'm joining your crew"

    You: "Okay"

    At best, choices in TOR are illusionary. Because the quests and XP have to keep on rolling in, otherwise it would never work. If half the dialogue options I had chosen for my Smuggler ended he way the dialogue line suggested, I would have been half the levels of my friends..

    Of course, some choices do have later repercussions, but mostly it's just choosing who lives or dies, for which you get Light and Dark side points. And occasionally an e-mail with 50 creds.

    But it's misleading to say that decisions make all the difference. The dialogue option system is an illusionary layer of choice. And that's OK by me. :)

  • RefMinorRefMinor Member UncommonPosts: 3,452
    Originally posted by GMan3


    Originally posted by RefMinor


    Originally posted by GMan3


    Originally posted by Jason2444



    Originally posted by Celcius
    There you go again with the made up information based off no facts. Once again, as my original argument has not been debunked, nor will it be, (since it is based on fact and not heresay) SWTOR still has 1.7 million subs with the only people not being reoccuring being those who purchased the game in the last month. You don't need to be a math wizard to understand that is nothing but a good thing for the game.

    [Mod Edit]

     

    "The vast majority of those 1.7 million are recurring subscribers". He didn't say "As of now, we have 1.7 million subscribers"

    But I guess it feels safer for you to beleive that SWTOR has a staggering 100% retention rate, right?

        Actually it was fairly clearly stated that SWTOR had a drop rate of 15%.  There was after all 2 million units sold and only 1.7 million subscribers.  Just trying to clear up your little misinformation there.

     So you believe that they had an 85% retention rate after 15% quit in the first 8 days?

        No, I believe what I said was that he was wrong when he mocking asked if the previous poster believed there was a 100% retention rate.  I simply showed that BioWare admitted to a loss of players.  To be honest though, your own numbers are flawed in suggesting there was a 15% drop rate in the first 8 days.  It is more likely that the 15% difference (in the first 8 days you mention) would be more accurately described as mostly people who had not started playing the game yet even though the game had been purchased, plus a small number that had already decided to quit playing. 

        At this point though, we do not have any better information at least until the next investor call, so I will not be jumping to conclusions like some people here have.  It seems to me that you, as well as many more, are jumping on the "doom and gloom" bandwagon, while the other poster is trying to get the "roses and daisy" bandwagon rolling on.  Only a few of us are actually looking at this and saying that the true answer is somewhere's in the middle and that both of you types are crazy.

     

    Numbers are falling, all indicators point in that direction, however I agree that no one will know how far until EA report to their investors at year end.
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