Guild wars 2 is three games, three games, three games in one!
Well, sort of, but close enough.
Let's look at what happens after you create a character and decide to participate in the three seperate game zones:
I make a character named Honora, a level 1 Thief and enter the game world.
I do the tutorial zone and she reaches level 2 before transitioning into the main PVE game world.
I have three major game mode choices as soon as I arrive outside my racial capitol city.
Play and progress in the PVE world, which might entail exploration, dynamic events, tasks, personal story or a combination of the above. I can earn levels, gain loot, unlock trait points and unlock/earn skills. Progress here carries through into WvW as well, one character, two game modes.
I can head right to the portal into The Mists, and chose the portal that will take me to the World vs World zones. My true level is level 2, so I only have a few skills and pretty limited gear, but while I'm in World vs World my character's effective level is 80. I can earn XP and loot in World vs. World, so my character can progress entirely in WvW, if I want to. Progress in WvW does carry over into the PVE world.
I can also head right to Competative PVP. In CPVP, you basically get a doppleganger of your PVE character. Your true level becomes 80, you have access to all skills and traits and also have access to max stat gear, at no cost. Nothing you do here carries over into PvE or WvW. It's all about skill based PVP in arena combat. Some matches are casual, others will be part of formal tournaments. Ratings and rankings track the best players and players can unlock alternative armor looks, (there are hundreds of cosmetic armor pieces that can be unlocked for each armor class, so people can pursue a very individualized look).
I hope that clears things up a bit, while remaining simple enough to understand for those recent to following the game.
If what you say is true then GW2 looks to be a real treat for both PvEers and PvPers. I am honestly getting very excited about this game. Not TOR excited mind you! I was semi-burned on that but excited still.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Then please do, the post was about the personal story and everyone (not) doing the same things, your reaction was about something else, although related. Quests to kill the ten rats in the basement, or something similar, usually have little to add to the story, be it the personal or the game story, but everything I've seen about Guildwars II points away from the ocheap kill-ten-rats style of quests. But if you only care about PvP, or (endlessly) bashing things then, I imagine, neither of the styles will appeal and the distinction becomes irrelevant.
Then please do, the post was about the personal story and everyone (not) doing the same things, your reaction was about something else, although related.
Quests to kill the ten rats in the basement, or something similar, usually have little to add to the story, be it the personal or the game story, but everything I've seen about Guildwars II points away from the ocheap kill-ten-rats style of quests.
But if you only care about PvP, or (endlessly) bashing things then, I imagine, neither of the styles will appeal and the distinction becomes irrelevant.
So you are saying you are ok with killing 10 rats as long as it is not included in personal stories?
I find it silly aswell that a MMORPG has the feature to skip all the levelling and unlock everything to play structured PvP right off the bat. Personally I would've liked to see a requirement (level a class to 80) before you could hop on to structured. It kinda spoils the fun of opening weapons skill and exploring for for healing/utility/elite skill when you can simply click a button to acquire them all even if it's only for structured PvP.
If I'm going to play GW2 I won't be touching the structured before I'm done with the PvE/WvWvW part of the game since for me it's a major spoiler to start playing around with a maxed toon
I thought mmorpgs were about progression, if I automatically wanted to get into the fray of things and have a game about 100% skill, wouldnt I play a twitched based FPS, mmorpgs should be 50% skill, 50% progression
oh noes - i can't gank no more! sad troll is sad.
had to read it twice to wonder if nomatics was serious tbh, why should a PVP game allow a level bias to determine the outcome of individual combat, i think the one thing that stands out in Arenanet's favour, head and shoulders above other games that have PVP components, is that it is player skill and player teamwork that defines the outcome of any PVP encounter, anyone who prefers the level bias version maybe ought to stick to 'older' MMO's and no im not saying WoW (even though i am)
So where do you put some of the deeper role playing feature like the personal story?
What does personal story have to do with being an action-rpg or not? GW2 seems to offer more personal story then most contemporary MMORPG's - at least you will not be doing the same heroic rat-killing as obviously as is usual.
Don't worry there are plenty of rat killings in GW2, you won't be disappointed.
The difference will be that if you come across a "rat killing" event the rats are already attacking, so it's kill or be killed. This is opposed to your standard stagnant rats in the field glossing their toenails waiting for you to run up and kill them. And the next guy. And the next guy. Ad nauseum.
So where do you put some of the deeper role playing feature like the personal story?
What does personal story have to do with being an action-rpg or not? GW2 seems to offer more personal story then most contemporary MMORPG's - at least you will not be doing the same heroic rat-killing as obviously as is usual.
Don't worry there are plenty of rat killings in GW2, you won't be disappointed.
The difference will be that if you come across a "rat killing" event the rats are already attacking, so it's kill or be killed. This is opposed to your standard stagnant rats in the field glossing their toenails waiting for you to run up and kill them. And the next guy. And the next guy. Ad nauseum.
The rats good be doing moonwalk but that is not the point. The guy i quoted was trying to put other MMOS down (as usual) giving examples of mundane activities like killing and collecting rat tails. Which are there in GW2 too just not given to you by a guy with quest icon on his head.
I try to be realistic and i am surely not deluding myself into thinking that GW2 DE's are going to be that differet when it comes to tasks.
The difference will be that if you come across a "rat killing" event the rats are already attacking, so it's kill or be killed. This is opposed to your standard stagnant rats in the field glossing their toenails waiting for you to run up and kill them. And the next guy. And the next guy. Ad nauseum.
The rats good be doing moonwalk but that is not the point. The guy i quoted was trying to put other MMOS down (as usual) giving examples of mundane activities like killing and collecting rat tails. Which are there in GW2 too just not given to you by a guy with quest icon on his head.
I try to be realistic and i am surely not deluding myself into thinking that GW2 DE's are going to be that differet when it comes to tasks.
I reject your version of reality and substitute one that is more factual. Even with the heart events you'll have a variety of tasks to do. Mundane, sure, but they're fillers between the actual dynamic events. For example, the beginner one where you can feed cows, water corn and rub out worm burrows until a bar is filled via group participation is there, and that would be the closest you'll find to a static "kill ten rats" type of quest. You have a choice of ways to accomplish it, and while doing so you can suddenly find yourself beset upon by bandits, attacked by the mother wurm who's rather unamused her children are being eradicated, etc.
So simply saying "there are those too" is inadequate and fails to do justice to the actual reknown hearts events.
The difference will be that if you come across a "rat killing" event the rats are already attacking, so it's kill or be killed. This is opposed to your standard stagnant rats in the field glossing their toenails waiting for you to run up and kill them. And the next guy. And the next guy. Ad nauseum.
The rats good be doing moonwalk but that is not the point. The guy i quoted was trying to put other MMOS down (as usual) giving examples of mundane activities like killing and collecting rat tails. Which are there in GW2 too just not given to you by a guy with quest icon on his head.
I try to be realistic and i am surely not deluding myself into thinking that GW2 DE's are going to be that differet when it comes to tasks.
I reject your version of reality and substitute one that is more factual. Even with the heart events you'll have a variety of tasks to do. Mundane, sure, but they're fillers between the actual dynamic events. For example, the beginner one where you can feed cows, water corn and rub out worm burrows until a bar is filled via group participation is there, and that would be the closest you'll find to a static "kill ten rats" type of quest. You have a choice of ways to accomplish it, and while doing so you can suddenly find yourself beset upon by bandits, attacked by the mother wurm who's rather unamused her children are being eradicated, etc.
So simply saying "there are those too" is inadequate and fails to do justice to the actual reknown hearts events.
Never said that, what i said was that there are still 'kill, collect, fetch X' type of objectives / task in DE's. never said that those are the only type of tasks.
I find it silly aswell that a MMORPG has the feature to skip all the levelling and unlock everything to play structured PvP right off the bat. Personally I would've liked to see a requirement (level a class to 80) before you could hop on to structured. It kinda spoils the fun of opening weapons skill and exploring for for healing/utility/elite skill when you can simply click a button to acquire them all even if it's only for structured PvP.
If I'm going to play GW2 I won't be touching the structured before I'm done with the PvE/WvWvW part of the game since for me it's a major spoiler to start playing around with a maxed toon
I actually kind of agree with you here, I might do the same thing and I recommend anyone who feels the same follow this advice. There is a certain joy to be had discovering the skills on your own.
I find it silly aswell that a MMORPG has the feature to skip all the levelling and unlock everything to play structured PvP right off the bat. Personally I would've liked to see a requirement (level a class to 80) before you could hop on to structured. It kinda spoils the fun of opening weapons skill and exploring for for healing/utility/elite skill when you can simply click a button to acquire them all even if it's only for structured PvP.
If I'm going to play GW2 I won't be touching the structured before I'm done with the PvE/WvWvW part of the game since for me it's a major spoiler to start playing around with a maxed toon
I actually kind of agree with you here, I might do the same thing and I recommend anyone who feels the same follow this advice. There is a certain joy to be had discovering the skills on your own.
if thats a case just use a class you dont want to level to play structured pvp if you want to try that part of the game.
I thought mmorpgs were about progression, if I automatically wanted to get into the fray of things and have a game about 100% skill, wouldnt I play a twitched based FPS, mmorpgs should be 50% skill, 50% progression
oh noes - i can't gank no more! sad troll is sad.
You don't think WvW won't have gank squads and ganking?
had to read it twice to wonder if nomatics was serious tbh, why should a PVP game allow a level bias to determine the outcome of individual combat, i think the one thing that stands out in Arenanet's favour, head and shoulders above other games that have PVP components, is that it is player skill and player teamwork that defines the outcome of any PVP encounter, anyone who prefers the level bias version maybe ought to stick to 'older' MMO's and no im not saying WoW (even though i am)
People keep throwing around the word skill when what you mean is twitch based reflexive combat. That's only one way to approach "skill" based combat. In this form of combat twitch-based reflexes are a measure of the players skill and that is all along with hardware and latency.
GW2 shouldn't be compared to FPS games because FPS games actually offer more than twitch to measure a player's skill. There are tactics, terrains, and environmental factors along with "gear" in the form of vehicular units. GW2 has none of that.
Traditional RPG combat, whether it is pvp or pve, is based on building a character's power (gear, skill levels, character levels, builds). A good RPG will have strengths and weaknesses in that build and require teamwork to overcome those.
If "twitch" is *the* measure of skill, then yeah GW has skill based combat. If someone was really looking for skill based twitchy combat a FPS offer a far superior experience. Saying GW2 has skill based combat compared to other games is like saying Farmville offers a real sim experience compared to full on RTS. I'm not saying GW2 is the Farmville of twitch based combat complete with Zynga style cash shop (even though I am )
Response to headphon above in red.
I'd have to argue that. Tactics and terrain will have an effect. you can use terrain obstacles to break los on attacks, essentially using "cover". Also, WvWvW combat videos so far have regularly shown that setting up artillery in the right spot, or defenders fring on attackers from the relative safety of the walls, really DOES make a difference.
Also, skill and intelligenceDO play a factor. OK, Let's say I'm a mesmer. Here comes a warrior and a thief charging at me. Do I lock one down and fight the other? which one? Do I run, leading them into my side's other fighters and thus luring them into an ambush? Which weapons do I use? What weapons are THEY using, and how can I counter their effects. All of this comes into play. If twtich was all that mattered, you'd see videos of some moron just spamming the 1 key and winning. It's not going to be that simple.
I thought mmorpgs were about progression, if I automatically wanted to get into the fray of things and have a game about 100% skill, wouldnt I play a twitched based FPS, mmorpgs should be 50% skill, 50% progression
oh noes - i can't gank no more! sad troll is sad.
had to read it twice to wonder if nomatics was serious tbh, why should a PVP game allow a level bias to determine the outcome of individual combat, i think the one thing that stands out in Arenanet's favour, head and shoulders above other games that have PVP components, is that it is player skill and player teamwork that defines the outcome of any PVP encounter, anyone who prefers the level bias version maybe ought to stick to 'older' MMO's and no im not saying WoW (even though i am)
People keep throwing around the word skill when what you mean is twitch based reflexive combat. That's only one way to approach "skill" based combat. In this form of combat twitch-based reflexes are a measure of the players skill and that is all along with hardware and latency.
GW2 shouldn't be compared to FPS games because FPS games actually offer more than twitch to measure a player's skill. There are tactics, terrains, and environmental factors along with "gear" in the form of vehicular units. GW2 has none of that.
Traditional RPG combat, whether it is pvp or pve, is based on building a character's power (gear, skill levels, character levels, builds). A good RPG will have strengths and weaknesses in that build and require teamwork to overcome those.
If "twitch" is *the* measure of skill, then yeah GW has skill based combat. If someone was really looking for skill based twitchy combat a FPS offer a far superior experience. Saying GW2 has skill based combat compared to other games is like saying Farmville offers a real sim experience compared to full on RTS. I'm not saying GW2 is the Farmville of twitch based combat complete with Zynga style cash shop (even though I am )
it really isnt twitch based, i don't really know where you get that from, and when i say skill based, i mean the players own skill in playing, after all, if player skill was just about twitch gaming then Eve online would be a FPS.. at least using that limited definition, player skill isnt easy to categorise, as im not talking about quick reactions, but more in terms of what skills to use when, timing, tactics even flanking and of course, most importantly, the ability to work with others without getting in the way, GW2 cannot be compared to a FPS, i think need to really look beyond the limited level and gear based progression, as thats just psuedo content anyway, GW2's PvP will hopefully bring back something that has been missing since DAoC, realm pride, if they can manage that, then imo, Arenanet will have a runaway hit on their hands. and while there will be a cash shop that sells in game items, i really hope that it won't be as exploitive as the things that zynga comes out with, in fact, im pretty sure it won't be, i don't think Arenanet would risk alienating their potential playerbase for the sake of a nickel and dime operation. and maybe need to look beyond the so called tradional thing too.. as traditional really is just another way of saying.. old.
I thought mmorpgs were about progression, if I automatically wanted to get into the fray of things and have a game about 100% skill, wouldnt I play a twitched based FPS, mmorpgs should be 50% skill, 50% progression
oh noes - i can't gank no more! sad troll is sad.
You don't think WvW won't have gank squads and ganking?
had to read it twice to wonder if nomatics was serious tbh, why should a PVP game allow a level bias to determine the outcome of individual combat, i think the one thing that stands out in Arenanet's favour, head and shoulders above other games that have PVP components, is that it is player skill and player teamwork that defines the outcome of any PVP encounter, anyone who prefers the level bias version maybe ought to stick to 'older' MMO's and no im not saying WoW (even though i am)
People keep throwing around the word skill when what you mean is twitch based reflexive combat. That's only one way to approach "skill" based combat. In this form of combat twitch-based reflexes are a measure of the players skill and that is all along with hardware and latency.
GW2 shouldn't be compared to FPS games because FPS games actually offer more than twitch to measure a player's skill. There are tactics, terrains, and environmental factors along with "gear" in the form of vehicular units. GW2 has none of that.
Traditional RPG combat, whether it is pvp or pve, is based on building a character's power (gear, skill levels, character levels, builds). A good RPG will have strengths and weaknesses in that build and require teamwork to overcome those.
If "twitch" is *the* measure of skill, then yeah GW has skill based combat. If someone was really looking for skill based twitchy combat a FPS offer a far superior experience. Saying GW2 has skill based combat compared to other games is like saying Farmville offers a real sim experience compared to full on RTS. I'm not saying GW2 is the Farmville of twitch based combat complete with Zynga style cash shop (even though I am )
Response to headphon above in red.
Well, GW1 was not 'twitch' based combat. It was about what skills you have on your bar, the synergy between them, and how good you are with them. GW2 looks to be the same way so your assertion that GW2 will be twitch combat is funny and shows you know nothing abouut the game or the previous game.
I thought mmorpgs were about progression, if I automatically wanted to get into the fray of things and have a game about 100% skill, wouldnt I play a twitched based FPS, mmorpgs should be 50% skill, 50% progression
oh noes - i can't gank no more! sad troll is sad. You don't think WvW won't have gank squads and ganking?
had to read it twice to wonder if nomatics was serious tbh, why should a PVP game allow a level bias to determine the outcome of individual combat, i think the one thing that stands out in Arenanet's favour, head and shoulders above other games that have PVP components, is that it is player skill and player teamwork that defines the outcome of any PVP encounter, anyone who prefers the level bias version maybe ought to stick to 'older' MMO's and no im not saying WoW (even though i am)
People keep throwing around the word skill when what you mean is twitch based reflexive combat. That's only one way to approach "skill" based combat. In this form of combat twitch-based reflexes are a measure of the players skill and that is all along with hardware and latency. GW2 shouldn't be compared to FPS games because FPS games actually offer more than twitch to measure a player's skill. There are tactics, terrains, and environmental factors along with "gear" in the form of vehicular units. GW2 has none of that. Traditional RPG combat, whether it is pvp or pve, is based on building a character's power (gear, skill levels, character levels, builds). A good RPG will have strengths and weaknesses in that build and require teamwork to overcome those. If "twitch" is *the* measure of skill, then yeah GW has skill based combat. If someone was really looking for skill based twitchy combat a FPS offer a far superior experience. Saying GW2 has skill based combat compared to other games is like saying Farmville offers a real sim experience compared to full on RTS. I'm not saying GW2 is the Farmville of twitch based combat complete with Zynga style cash shop (even though I am ) Response to headphon above in red.
I've been watchigng the PVP videos. I'm hard pressed to see skill used. It's all button spamming.
Once guy was playing a ranger, He pretty much stuck to melee mode and just spammed his 1st slot ability. When he went down, he spammed fight to survive.He got up and spammed his primary ability button againe. threw in a few self heals, switched back and forth from melee to ranged, and A lot of it looked similar to what we recognize as ranged AOE abilities. but Honestly, I could have been watching a WoW BG YouTube for what I saw.
What's more, you can't say bad player is bad because he was actually doing quite well. LOL
I thought mmorpgs were about progression, if I automatically wanted to get into the fray of things and have a game about 100% skill, wouldnt I play a twitched based FPS, mmorpgs should be 50% skill, 50% progression
oh noes - i can't gank no more! sad troll is sad.
You don't think WvW won't have gank squads and ganking?
had to read it twice to wonder if nomatics was serious tbh, why should a PVP game allow a level bias to determine the outcome of individual combat, i think the one thing that stands out in Arenanet's favour, head and shoulders above other games that have PVP components, is that it is player skill and player teamwork that defines the outcome of any PVP encounter, anyone who prefers the level bias version maybe ought to stick to 'older' MMO's and no im not saying WoW (even though i am)
People keep throwing around the word skill when what you mean is twitch based reflexive combat. That's only one way to approach "skill" based combat. In this form of combat twitch-based reflexes are a measure of the players skill and that is all along with hardware and latency.
GW2 shouldn't be compared to FPS games because FPS games actually offer more than twitch to measure a player's skill. There are tactics, terrains, and environmental factors along with "gear" in the form of vehicular units. GW2 has none of that.
Traditional RPG combat, whether it is pvp or pve, is based on building a character's power (gear, skill levels, character levels, builds). A good RPG will have strengths and weaknesses in that build and require teamwork to overcome those.
If "twitch" is *the* measure of skill, then yeah GW has skill based combat. If someone was really looking for skill based twitchy combat a FPS offer a far superior experience. Saying GW2 has skill based combat compared to other games is like saying Farmville offers a real sim experience compared to full on RTS. I'm not saying GW2 is the Farmville of twitch based combat complete with Zynga style cash shop (even though I am )
Response to headphon above in red.
I've been watchigng the PVP videos. I'm hard pressed to see skill used.
It's all button spamming.
Once guy was playing a ranger, He pretty much stuck to melee mode and just spammed his 1st slot ability. When he went down, he spammed fight to survive.He got up and spammed his primary ability button againe. threw in a few self heals, switched back and forth from melee to ranged, but Honestly, I could have been watching a WoW BG YouTube for what I saw.
What's more, you can't say bad player is bad because he was actually doing quite well.
LOL
Not really impressed.
Can you really expect people to have learned enough to know the best way to chain their attacks and counter cerrtain opponents skill with the limited time they had? I'd say no. So yes seeing someone spam the same thing over and over isn't weird.
Originally posted by Connmacart Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by headphones
Originally posted by nomatics856
I thought mmorpgs were about progression, if I automatically wanted to get into the fray of things and have a game about 100% skill, wouldnt I play a twitched based FPS, mmorpgs should be 50% skill, 50% progression
oh noes - i can't gank no more! sad troll is sad. You don't think WvW won't have gank squads and ganking?
had to read it twice to wonder if nomatics was serious tbh, why should a PVP game allow a level bias to determine the outcome of individual combat, i think the one thing that stands out in Arenanet's favour, head and shoulders above other games that have PVP components, is that it is player skill and player teamwork that defines the outcome of any PVP encounter, anyone who prefers the level bias version maybe ought to stick to 'older' MMO's and no im not saying WoW (even though i am)
People keep throwing around the word skill when what you mean is twitch based reflexive combat. That's only one way to approach "skill" based combat. In this form of combat twitch-based reflexes are a measure of the players skill and that is all along with hardware and latency. GW2 shouldn't be compared to FPS games because FPS games actually offer more than twitch to measure a player's skill. There are tactics, terrains, and environmental factors along with "gear" in the form of vehicular units. GW2 has none of that. Traditional RPG combat, whether it is pvp or pve, is based on building a character's power (gear, skill levels, character levels, builds). A good RPG will have strengths and weaknesses in that build and require teamwork to overcome those. If "twitch" is *the* measure of skill, then yeah GW has skill based combat. If someone was really looking for skill based twitchy combat a FPS offer a far superior experience. Saying GW2 has skill based combat compared to other games is like saying Farmville offers a real sim experience compared to full on RTS. I'm not saying GW2 is the Farmville of twitch based combat complete with Zynga style cash shop (even though I am ) Response to headphon above in red.
I've been watchigng the PVP videos. I'm hard pressed to see skill used. It's all button spamming. Once guy was playing a ranger, He pretty much stuck to melee mode and just spammed his 1st slot ability. When he went down, he spammed fight to survive.He got up and spammed his primary ability button againe. threw in a few self heals, switched back and forth from melee to ranged, but Honestly, I could have been watching a WoW BG YouTube for what I saw. What's more, you can't say bad player is bad because he was actually doing quite well. LOL Not really impressed. Can you really expect people to have learned enough to know the best way to chain their attacks and counter cerrtain opponents skill with the limited time they had? I'd say no. So yes seeing someone spam the same thing over and over isn't weird.
Yep, and as they get better, it's not going to be that much different than what we know. So there is "Don't Step In Boss Poop" mechanics. Again, not that new. Just that it's now in PVP more.
I thought mmorpgs were about progression, if I automatically wanted to get into the fray of things and have a game about 100% skill, wouldnt I play a twitched based FPS, mmorpgs should be 50% skill, 50% progression
oh noes - i can't gank no more! sad troll is sad.
You don't think WvW won't have gank squads and ganking?
had to read it twice to wonder if nomatics was serious tbh, why should a PVP game allow a level bias to determine the outcome of individual combat, i think the one thing that stands out in Arenanet's favour, head and shoulders above other games that have PVP components, is that it is player skill and player teamwork that defines the outcome of any PVP encounter, anyone who prefers the level bias version maybe ought to stick to 'older' MMO's and no im not saying WoW (even though i am)
People keep throwing around the word skill when what you mean is twitch based reflexive combat. That's only one way to approach "skill" based combat. In this form of combat twitch-based reflexes are a measure of the players skill and that is all along with hardware and latency.
GW2 shouldn't be compared to FPS games because FPS games actually offer more than twitch to measure a player's skill. There are tactics, terrains, and environmental factors along with "gear" in the form of vehicular units. GW2 has none of that.
Traditional RPG combat, whether it is pvp or pve, is based on building a character's power (gear, skill levels, character levels, builds). A good RPG will have strengths and weaknesses in that build and require teamwork to overcome those.
If "twitch" is *the* measure of skill, then yeah GW has skill based combat. If someone was really looking for skill based twitchy combat a FPS offer a far superior experience. Saying GW2 has skill based combat compared to other games is like saying Farmville offers a real sim experience compared to full on RTS. I'm not saying GW2 is the Farmville of twitch based combat complete with Zynga style cash shop (even though I am )
Response to headphon above in red.
Well, GW1 was not 'twitch' based combat. It was about what skills you have on your bar, the synergy between them, and how good you are with them. GW2 looks to be the same way so your assertion that GW2 will be twitch combat is funny and shows you know nothing abouut the game or the previous game.
Next!!!
I've played Guild Wars since day 1 of launch. It most certainly is twitch based complete with dodge mechanics. I don't take damage unless you can hit me. At least someone is finally admitting GW2 will be more of the same as GW1. So your assertion that you know something about the game or the previous game is funny.
Next!!!
Because bringing a proper build didn't matter one bit and you could always twitch your way to victory...
No one is saying there won't be any twitch involved in the gameplay, but there is much more to it that you refuse to admit.
People keep throwing around the word skill when what you mean is twitch based reflexive combat. That's only one way to approach "skill" based combat. In this form of combat twitch-based reflexes are a measure of the players skill and that is all along with hardware and latency.
GW2 shouldn't be compared to FPS games because FPS games actually offer more than twitch to measure a player's skill. There are tactics, terrains, and environmental factors along with "gear" in the form of vehicular units. GW2 has none of that.
Some people really need to do some actual research on this game before posting.
Don't know if someone has said this, but also don't forget that if you haven't learned your skills for a particular weapon setup outside of PvP, you won't get them in it, regardless of your 8th level jump.
So yes, even though you are 80th, it would make sense for you to gain skills in your weapons first, so you can have the skills to woop people asses.
Originally posted by jaffrojones Don't know if someone has said this, but also don't forget that if you haven't learned your skills for a particular weapon setup outside of PvP, you won't get them in it, regardless of your 8th level jump. So yes, even though you are 80th, it would make sense for you to gain skills in your weapons first, so you can have the skills to woop people asses.
Unless I misunderstood, that seems to contradict what I've read elsewhere.
Comments
If what you say is true then GW2 looks to be a real treat for both PvEers and PvPers. I am honestly getting very excited about this game. Not TOR excited mind you! I was semi-burned on that but excited still.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Then please do, the post was about the personal story and everyone (not) doing the same things, your reaction was about something else, although related.
Quests to kill the ten rats in the basement, or something similar, usually have little to add to the story, be it the personal or the game story, but everything I've seen about Guildwars II points away from the ocheap kill-ten-rats style of quests.
But if you only care about PvP, or (endlessly) bashing things then, I imagine, neither of the styles will appeal and the distinction becomes irrelevant.
So you are saying you are ok with killing 10 rats as long as it is not included in personal stories?
I find it silly aswell that a MMORPG has the feature to skip all the levelling and unlock everything to play structured PvP right off the bat. Personally I would've liked to see a requirement (level a class to 80) before you could hop on to structured. It kinda spoils the fun of opening weapons skill and exploring for for healing/utility/elite skill when you can simply click a button to acquire them all even if it's only for structured PvP.
If I'm going to play GW2 I won't be touching the structured before I'm done with the PvE/WvWvW part of the game since for me it's a major spoiler to start playing around with a maxed toon
had to read it twice to wonder if nomatics was serious tbh, why should a PVP game allow a level bias to determine the outcome of individual combat, i think the one thing that stands out in Arenanet's favour, head and shoulders above other games that have PVP components, is that it is player skill and player teamwork that defines the outcome of any PVP encounter, anyone who prefers the level bias version maybe ought to stick to 'older' MMO's and no im not saying WoW (even though i am
)
The difference will be that if you come across a "rat killing" event the rats are already attacking, so it's kill or be killed. This is opposed to your standard stagnant rats in the field glossing their toenails waiting for you to run up and kill them. And the next guy. And the next guy. Ad nauseum.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I see, it's not just a bad day.
The rats good be doing moonwalk but that is not the point. The guy i quoted was trying to put other MMOS down (as usual) giving examples of mundane activities like killing and collecting rat tails. Which are there in GW2 too just not given to you by a guy with quest icon on his head.
I try to be realistic and i am surely not deluding myself into thinking that GW2 DE's are going to be that differet when it comes to tasks.
[mod edit]You still didn't answer me though, are you ok with killing and collecting rat tails as long as it is not included in personal story?
I reject your version of reality and substitute one that is more factual. Even with the heart events you'll have a variety of tasks to do. Mundane, sure, but they're fillers between the actual dynamic events. For example, the beginner one where you can feed cows, water corn and rub out worm burrows until a bar is filled via group participation is there, and that would be the closest you'll find to a static "kill ten rats" type of quest. You have a choice of ways to accomplish it, and while doing so you can suddenly find yourself beset upon by bandits, attacked by the mother wurm who's rather unamused her children are being eradicated, etc.
So simply saying "there are those too" is inadequate and fails to do justice to the actual reknown hearts events.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Never said that, what i said was that there are still 'kill, collect, fetch X' type of objectives / task in DE's. never said that those are the only type of tasks.
No it isn't. See what I can do too?
But seriously, it isn't.
I actually kind of agree with you here, I might do the same thing and I recommend anyone who feels the same follow this advice. There is a certain joy to be had discovering the skills on your own.
if thats a case just use a class you dont want to level to play structured pvp if you want to try that part of the game.
I'd have to argue that. Tactics and terrain will have an effect. you can use terrain obstacles to break los on attacks, essentially using "cover". Also, WvWvW combat videos so far have regularly shown that setting up artillery in the right spot, or defenders fring on attackers from the relative safety of the walls, really DOES make a difference.
Also, skill and intelligenceDO play a factor. OK, Let's say I'm a mesmer. Here comes a warrior and a thief charging at me. Do I lock one down and fight the other? which one? Do I run, leading them into my side's other fighters and thus luring them into an ambush? Which weapons do I use? What weapons are THEY using, and how can I counter their effects. All of this comes into play. If twtich was all that mattered, you'd see videos of some moron just spamming the 1 key and winning. It's not going to be that simple.
it really isnt twitch based, i don't really know where you get that from, and when i say skill based, i mean the players own skill in playing, after all, if player skill was just about twitch gaming then Eve online would be a FPS.. at least using that limited definition, player skill isnt easy to categorise, as im not talking about quick reactions, but more in terms of what skills to use when, timing, tactics even flanking and of course, most importantly, the ability to work with others without getting in the way, GW2 cannot be compared to a FPS, i think need to really look beyond the limited level and gear based progression, as thats just psuedo content anyway, GW2's PvP will hopefully bring back something that has been missing since DAoC, realm pride, if they can manage that, then imo, Arenanet will have a runaway hit on their hands. and while there will be a cash shop that sells in game items, i really hope that it won't be as exploitive as the things that zynga comes out with, in fact, im pretty sure it won't be, i don't think Arenanet would risk alienating their potential playerbase for the sake of a nickel and dime operation. and maybe need to look beyond the so called tradional thing too.. as traditional really is just another way of saying.. old.
Well, GW1 was not 'twitch' based combat. It was about what skills you have on your bar, the synergy between them, and how good you are with them. GW2 looks to be the same way so your assertion that GW2 will be twitch combat is funny and shows you know nothing abouut the game or the previous game.
Next!!!
instead of old use stale
I've been watchigng the PVP videos. I'm hard pressed to see skill used.
It's all button spamming.
Once guy was playing a ranger, He pretty much stuck to melee mode and just spammed his 1st slot ability. When he went down, he spammed fight to survive.He got up and spammed his primary ability button againe. threw in a few self heals, switched back and forth from melee to ranged, and A lot of it looked similar to what we recognize as ranged AOE abilities. but Honestly, I could have been watching a WoW BG YouTube for what I saw.
What's more, you can't say bad player is bad because he was actually doing quite well.
LOL
Not really impressed.
Can you really expect people to have learned enough to know the best way to chain their attacks and counter cerrtain opponents skill with the limited time they had? I'd say no. So yes seeing someone spam the same thing over and over isn't weird.
oh noes - i can't gank no more!
You don't think WvW won't have gank squads and ganking?
had to read it twice to wonder if nomatics was serious tbh, why should a PVP game allow a level bias to determine the outcome of individual combat, i think the one thing that stands out in Arenanet's favour, head and shoulders above other games that have PVP components, is that it is player skill and player teamwork that defines the outcome of any PVP encounter, anyone who prefers the level bias version maybe ought to stick to 'older' MMO's and no im not saying WoW (even though i am)
People keep throwing around the word skill when what you mean is twitch based reflexive combat. That's only one way to approach "skill" based combat. In this form of combat twitch-based reflexes are a measure of the players skill and that is all along with hardware and latency.
GW2 shouldn't be compared to FPS games because FPS games actually offer more than twitch to measure a player's skill. There are tactics, terrains, and environmental factors along with "gear" in the form of vehicular units. GW2 has none of that.
Traditional RPG combat, whether it is pvp or pve, is based on building a character's power (gear, skill levels, character levels, builds). A good RPG will have strengths and weaknesses in that build and require teamwork to overcome those.
If "twitch" is *the* measure of skill, then yeah GW has skill based combat. If someone was really looking for skill based twitchy combat a FPS offer a far superior experience. Saying GW2 has skill based combat compared to other games is like saying Farmville offers a real sim experience compared to full on RTS. I'm not saying GW2 is the Farmville of twitch based combat complete with Zynga style cash shop (even though I am )
Response to headphon above in red.
I've been watchigng the PVP videos. I'm hard pressed to see skill used.
It's all button spamming.
Once guy was playing a ranger, He pretty much stuck to melee mode and just spammed his 1st slot ability. When he went down, he spammed fight to survive.He got up and spammed his primary ability button againe. threw in a few self heals, switched back and forth from melee to ranged, but Honestly, I could have been watching a WoW BG YouTube for what I saw.
What's more, you can't say bad player is bad because he was actually doing quite well.
LOL
Not really impressed.
Can you really expect people to have learned enough to know the best way to chain their attacks and counter cerrtain opponents skill with the limited time they had? I'd say no. So yes seeing someone spam the same thing over and over isn't weird.
Yep, and as they get better, it's not going to be that much different than what we know. So there is "Don't Step In Boss Poop" mechanics. Again, not that new. Just that it's now in PVP more.
Because bringing a proper build didn't matter one bit and you could always twitch your way to victory...
No one is saying there won't be any twitch involved in the gameplay, but there is much more to it that you refuse to admit.
NEXT!!!
see what I did there...
Some people really need to do some actual research on this game before posting.
Don't know if someone has said this, but also don't forget that if you haven't learned your skills for a particular weapon setup outside of PvP, you won't get them in it, regardless of your 8th level jump.
So yes, even though you are 80th, it would make sense for you to gain skills in your weapons first, so you can have the skills to woop people asses.
Unless I misunderstood, that seems to contradict what I've read elsewhere.