MMORPG would be full of people whining about no Themepark style MMO's and how they are superior to the old and outdated Sandbox games. "I'm sick to death of all this levelling..... first its one handed pick axes, then level metalurgy so I can then level minor Blacksmithing to then level intermediate Blacksmithing and then major Blacksmithing just to make a bloody one handed sword cause the ingame ones are shit or I have to buy one for a super exorbitant price from greedy crafters" "For good sake will they ever put in a fast travel system I'm going to throw my computer out the window if I have to walk from DragonsMane to Village of the Doomed again" "I've explored every part of this land with my tribe and all we found was more fucking land give us a bloody reason to do this Pleeaaaaassseee! something like achievements from Themepark games would be cool" "Why can't we have some Themepark elements in our Sandboxes? a ThemeBox if you will" "Would putting the quests in a more orderly fashion really ruin the Sandbox?"
I would argue that WoW was the beginning of the themepark experience and these issues wouldnt have been an issue because they would have been nonexistent until it arrived. In all honesty, all the spoiled gaming whining and bitching really came after the WoW themepark was introduced.
WoW was based on the first Themepark game Everquest and you really believe that all the whining came after WoW was relaesed? No-one bitched about the Planes Of Power or Lost Dungeons of Norrath xpacs?, no-one bitched about the Renaissance xpac? no-one bitched about the Trials Of Atlantis xpac? no-one bitched about the release of Anarchy Online? SWG was a wonderfully bug free content rich game at release and everyone was ecstatic about it. No it was a serene and wonderful world back in the old days dancing round the maypole and stroking pretty maidens hair in feilds of lush clover I sure.
/sarcasm
Touche. I actually flashed back for a second and remember the bitching about the Xpacs in EQ. However,I do not agree it was a themepark at all. I think the majority of changes that may make you belive that took place after the release of WoW when SOE still belived EQ1 had a fighting chance. Now they push it further because themepark the standard and is what is expected and they need new customers. Original EQ was nowhere near themepark in my opinion.
Early EQ to me was more like a social media tool than anything else. Thats one huge difference in the experience you would have as a modern MMO player.
My experiences in early EQ had very little to do with powerleveling and a lot to do with socializing, the leveling was secondary maybe even tertiary.
That being said Im not sure how to categorize EQ now, its an entirely different beast than it originally was.
Imagine Blizzard stuck to RTS/Dungeon crawlers - what would we be facing today?
Blizzard wouldnt be as popular as they are today if they sticked to RTS / Dungeon Crawlers and never made WoW. Also we would be stuck, sick, and tired of the pre-WoW kind of gameplay after so many years without innovation. Kind of the same we are living today without any post WoW innovation.
Additionally. I kind of have a hard time mentioning SWG in the mix for complaining simply because it added the additional issue of SW fans. Thats begging for problems as well. It is just like D&D. Turbine has the additional issues of MMO complaints along with the D&D fanatic to contend with. On simple nerd raging, I want it now kids. That was the highlight of the WoW generation for sure.
Without WoW's asian marketing, we'd lose the expectation of double-digit million subs to be a "quality game".
Lineage II would have been a monster instead of an also-ran.
As a model of success, new games copy Lineage II.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
MMORPG would be full of people whining about no Themepark style MMO's and how they are superior to the old and outdated Sandbox games.
"I'm sick to death of all this levelling..... first its one handed pick axes, then level metalurgy so I can then level minor Blacksmithing to then level intermediate Blacksmithing and then major Blacksmithing just to make a bloody one handed sword cause the ingame ones are shit or I have to buy one for a super exorbitant price from greedy crafters"
"For good sake will they ever put in a fast travel system I'm going to throw my computer out the window if I have to walk from DragonsMane to Village of the Doomed again"
"I've explored every part of this land with my tribe and all we found was more fucking land give us a bloody reason to do this Pleeaaaaassseee! something like achievements from Themepark games would be cool"
"Why can't we have some Themepark elements in our Sandboxes? a ThemeBox if you will"
"Would putting the quests in a more orderly fashion really ruin the Sandbox?"
I would argue that WoW was the beginning of the themepark experience and these issues wouldnt have been an issue because they would have been nonexistent until it arrived. In all honesty, all the spoiled gaming whining and bitching really came after the WoW themepark was introduced.
WoW was based on the first Themepark game Everquest and you really believe that all the whining came after WoW was relaesed? No-one bitched about the Planes Of Power or Lost Dungeons of Norrath xpacs?, no-one bitched about the Renaissance xpac? no-one bitched about the Trials Of Atlantis xpac? no-one bitched about the release of Anarchy Online? SWG was a wonderfully bug free content rich game at release and everyone was ecstatic about it. No it was a serene and wonderful world back in the old days dancing round the maypole and stroking pretty maidens hair in feilds of lush clover I sure.
/sarcasm
Touche. I actually flashed back for a second and remember the bitching about the Xpacs in EQ. However,I do not agree it was a themepark at all. I think the majority of changes that may make you belive that took place after the release of WoW when SOE still belived EQ1 had a fighting chance. Now they push it further because themepark the standard and is what is expected and they need new customers. Original EQ was nowhere near themepark in my opinion.
EQ was no quests on rails lobby game. But I dont think we should accept that this is the definition of a themepark. Games like that are WoW-clones. But not all themeparks have to be WoW-clones. Even if they are common.
A game based on exploring an open virtual world can also be a themepark. If all content is created by the developers it certainly is no true sandbox. Even if you need to explore and figure things out to find that content.
GW1 would become intially a much more successful game, and remain much more PVP oriented than it eventually did.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I can't blame WoW, Everquest was doing a great job of ruining its own game with instances, all WoW did was take EQ's direction and kick it up a notch....EQ killed early EQ's feel, not WoW...LDoN+ content that lived on instances.
I am just hopeful that the hybrid turn keeps up, and that eventually means a hybrid with some nice sandbox features, or even in 2-3 years a very nice sandbox with a few themepark features... I miss big open worlds, numerous starting cities, exploring, crafting/harvesting that is worth doing, and some open dungeons.
I can't blame WoW, Everquest was doing a great job of ruining its own game with instances, all WoW did was take EQ's direction and kick it up a notch....EQ killed early EQ's feel, not WoW...LDoN+ content that lived on instances.
There's an interesting question;
Without WoW opening as of late '04, where would all of the refugees leaving EQ have gone?
Without something New and Shiny to encourage all of those players to leave for greener pastures, do they still abandon ship at all?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I can't blame WoW, Everquest was doing a great job of ruining its own game with instances, all WoW did was take EQ's direction and kick it up a notch....EQ killed early EQ's feel, not WoW...LDoN+ content that lived on instances.
I am just hopeful that the hybrid turn keeps up, and that eventually means a hybrid with some nice sandbox features, or even in 2-3 years a very nice sandbox with a few themepark features... I miss big open worlds, numerous starting cities, exploring, crafting/harvesting that is worth doing, and some open dungeons.
I will agree that EQ changed. However every game out there will always evolve, just as WoW did to the consternation of their fans.
Kind of reminds me of music bands. You cant expect Metallica to be the same band they were when they were 19 years old. They will change and evolve with time. So will games. I am absolutley certain that if EQ remained at the top of the food chain they would have made alot of changes and decisions that not all fans would have agreed with. Although some would. The former would call the latter fanboys, and so the game goes on.
I can't blame WoW, Everquest was doing a great job of ruining its own game with instances, all WoW did was take EQ's direction and kick it up a notch....EQ killed early EQ's feel, not WoW...LDoN+ content that lived on instances.
I am just hopeful that the hybrid turn keeps up, and that eventually means a hybrid with some nice sandbox features, or even in 2-3 years a very nice sandbox with a few themepark features... I miss big open worlds, numerous starting cities, exploring, crafting/harvesting that is worth doing, and some open dungeons.
I will agree that EQ changed. However every game out there will always evolve, just as WoW did to the consternation of their fans. Kind of reminds me of music bands. You cant expect Metallica to be the same band they were when they were 19 years old. They will change and evolve with time. So will games. I am absolutley certain that if EQ remained at the top of the food chain they would have made alot of changes and decisions that not all fans would have agreed with. Although some would. The former would call the latter fanboys, and so the game goes on.
Yes, all things change, but change is not always for the better. There's also the classic saying "If it ain't broke, dont fix it." EQ had its die-hard fanbase. By trying to "fix" what wasn't broken, they shot themselves in the foot. SoE got greedy and tried to add a bigger audience to the game. In doing so, they alienated the people that made the game the success it was from the start.
Yes, all things change, but change is not always for the better. There's also the classic saying "If it ain't broke, dont fix it." EQ had its die-hard fanbase. By trying to "fix" what wasn't broken, they shot themselves in the foot. SoE got greedy and tried to add a bigger audience to the game. In doing so, they alienated the people that made the game the success it was from the start.
We now see WoW making the same mistake.
Believe me, the possibility of Lineage/LineageII being the Clone target of choice frightens me much more.
EQ might have survived the EQ2 debacle in much better shape without WoW, or it might not. According to the sub graphs, the damage was already done, wasn't it? Players and the big raiding guilds already leaving?
Player's opinions of Sony were certainly at an all-time pre-NGE low in late '04.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I can't blame WoW, Everquest was doing a great job of ruining its own game with instances, all WoW did was take EQ's direction and kick it up a notch....EQ killed early EQ's feel, not WoW...LDoN+ content that lived on instances.
There's an interesting question;
Without WoW opening as of late '04, where would all of the refugees leaving EQ have gone?
Without something New and Shiny to encourage all of those players to leave for greener pastures, do they still abandon ship at all?
I play with my wife, and i ran probably 40 of this same instance trying to get some guy these boots for his Shadow Knight, and I finally stopped doing it, but not my wife, she probably ran around 100.... I pretty much quit after my 40, and I had to be dragged back to play here and there....I can grind AA/XP, camp dungeons, whatever, but instances sapped my desire to play, I kept hoping the next EQ expansion would get away from instances, but they just got worse and worse...So I left.
I did not jump to WoW (well besides the beta). I saw WoW at the time as everything I hated about what EQ had started becoming, and those features on steroids...I also thought it was a mix of two games, been so long one eludes my memory, but the other was DAoC, but without meaning...I don't want to bash WoW or derail anything, just didn't fit my playstyle at the time, EQ had me hating instances so much by the time I had left, I was trying to stay away from them, which is about nearly impossible.
I may of popped back into UO or a 'alternate' UO for a bit, and then I landed in Vanguard, I had a brand new gaming computer so I didn't feel all the problems people with older computers got hit with. I loved Vanguard, its open play, big world, played on faction pvp, crafting/harvesting...They did do some compromises along the way to make it 'easier'/'more accesible'...But it was still better for me than my other options...Left when they stopped supporting PvP (I was not a huge PvPer, but liked the option) pretty much, as the server became a ghost town with people jumping to AoC as the new PvP savior.
If their was no WoW, EQ and EQ2, probably EQ2 would be the WoW now though, they could of been a lot more if their engine would of been more optimized, I think they lost a lot of potential players with the higher specs. I bought it and tried it, I just couldn't get excited about EQ2, it felt like I was starting over in EQ1 (due to knowing the lands, not the same type of game).
Originally posted by Icewhite Without WoW's asian marketing, we'd lose the expectation of double-digit million subs to be a "quality game". Lineage II would have been a monster instead of an also-ran. As a model of success, new games copy Lineage II.
WoW, I think, is fantastic because it brought to the mainstream the very same thing the mainstream shunned since the 1970s.
Role playing games. Blizzard made role playing games and geekdom cool. I loved the WoW when it was first released and the first expansion. You can't deny that Blizzard had their hearts in it when the game first started. Without WoW, you wouldn't have the plethora of choices for MMORPGs that you do now. Both the good and the bad. Right now, the bad side of the see-saw is predominating at the moment. But the balance will tip.
Without WoW's asian marketing, we'd lose the expectation of double-digit million subs to be a "quality game".
Lineage II would have been a monster instead of an also-ran.
As a model of success, new games copy Lineage II.
Lineage 2 released 7 months before WoW.
Lineage 2 failed on its own in NA.
[(14 million sales) and yes, I know how suspect that number is] is failing?
Just being a tenth that sucessful in a WoW-free world would have looked remarkable to all of the other game makers.
SOE in a steady decline from a 550k peak at the time...
What we can't truly predict is who gets the benefit of the perfect storm surrounding this time frame; whoever gets to market with at least a b-grade game?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
probably the console/CoD crowd wouldn't be interested in MMOs and of course, the MMO community would be way different than what it is now: a bunch of cry babies QQing for every single pixel
The first thing that would have happened without WoW would be drastic changes to EQ2. EQ2 would not have drastically changed their game in beta to copy WoW and likely would not have released such a poor and unfinished game. The same goes for Vanguard. Both would have not shifted to quest directed gameplay and super fast fast leveling. Both would have likely had problems in requiring to much hardware to play the game but likely both would have done very well.
My guess is LOTRO would have done better. Without focusing on creating quests they might have made interesting classes and a better combat system. Most likely EQ2 and Vanguard wouldhave been the dominant games.
Warhammer would likely have been a lot more like DAOC without the WoW influence and have been a better game.
My guess is today most games would be copyingvVanguard and sticking to the EQ model. The communities would be better, more patient and mature. MMOs would likely be more niche but that would be a very good thing. Budgets would be smaller, expectations at release smaller and Independent MMOs would have a much better chance at success. We would see more sandbox and open ended UO type games contrasting themselves with the EQ raiding formula. We would also see more games like SWG and Horizons with a srong emphasis on crafting, buillding and cmmunity projects.
Overall the genre would be a lot better IMO and the games would require more thought and effort. The quality, production values and polish would likely not be as good. Certainly the eye candy and flash would be less. But the substance would likely be a lot better. The players would be older, smarter, better, more patient and much more skilled. Not to mention they would be a lot more literate with greater communication skills. Communities in MMOs would be closer nit and much better.
Websites like MMORPG.COM would have to employ writers that actually play MMOs rather than the pretend players they employ now. They would have to write articles of substance to reach a more niche playerbase than the developer talking points they repeat for the ignorant masses.
I don't think many mmos would have even been made.
I don't think many mmos would have even been made.
Almost certainly less people to care (and speculate).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I am no WoW fanboy by any means, but I think it has been great for the MMO industry. I feel that WoW has pushed development teams to crank out their best products to try to topple the Blizzard giant, or at least take some of their subscribers.
Propably less mainstream, niche genre, but with alot of diversity instead of the current litter of themeparks and copycat games.
Little evidence that WoW had a lot to do with the current breed of management.
Developers were copying each other's ideas a long, long time before the WoW Phenom, however.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Comments
I would argue that WoW was the beginning of the themepark experience and these issues wouldnt have been an issue because they would have been nonexistent until it arrived. In all honesty, all the spoiled gaming whining and bitching really came after the WoW themepark was introduced.WoW was based on the first Themepark game Everquest and you really believe that all the whining came after WoW was relaesed? No-one bitched about the Planes Of Power or Lost Dungeons of Norrath xpacs?, no-one bitched about the Renaissance xpac? no-one bitched about the Trials Of Atlantis xpac? no-one bitched about the release of Anarchy Online? SWG was a wonderfully bug free content rich game at release and everyone was ecstatic about it. No it was a serene and wonderful world back in the old days dancing round the maypole and stroking pretty maidens hair in feilds of lush clover I sure.
/sarcasm
Touche. I actually flashed back for a second and remember the bitching about the Xpacs in EQ. However,I do not agree it was a themepark at all. I think the majority of changes that may make you belive that took place after the release of WoW when SOE still belived EQ1 had a fighting chance. Now they push it further because themepark the standard and is what is expected and they need new customers. Original EQ was nowhere near themepark in my opinion.Early EQ to me was more like a social media tool than anything else. Thats one huge difference in the experience you would have as a modern MMO player.
My experiences in early EQ had very little to do with powerleveling and a lot to do with socializing, the leveling was secondary maybe even tertiary.
That being said Im not sure how to categorize EQ now, its an entirely different beast than it originally was.
Blizzard wouldnt be as popular as they are today if they sticked to RTS / Dungeon Crawlers and never made WoW. Also we would be stuck, sick, and tired of the pre-WoW kind of gameplay after so many years without innovation. Kind of the same we are living today without any post WoW innovation.
just my opinion
Actually both games were in development at the same time. EQ2 released I think a month or two before WoW did.
Although they do share some uncanny similarities. It makes me think someone leaked info to someone during their development.
EQ2: The Commonlands. A large, mostly barren, plain for players just leaving the newbie starting areas.
WoW: The Barrens. A large, mostly barren, plain for players just leaving the newbie starting areas.
EQ2: The Commonlands. At the edge of this wasteland lies a lush forest zone to the north.
WoW: The Barrens. At the edge of this wasteland lies a lush forest zone to the north.
EQ2: The Commonlands. In the center of the zone lies a small town-like settlement called The Crossroads.
WoW: The Barrens. In the center of the zone lies a small town-like settlement called The Crossroads.
EQ2: The Commonlands. Within this zone lies an area known as The Wailing Caverns.
WoW: The Barrens. Within this zone lies an area known as The Wailing Caves.
EQ2: The Thundering Steppes.
WOW: The Burning Steppes.
I could go on.
Without WoW's asian marketing, we'd lose the expectation of double-digit million subs to be a "quality game".
Lineage II would have been a monster instead of an also-ran.
As a model of success, new games copy Lineage II.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
EQ was no quests on rails lobby game. But I dont think we should accept that this is the definition of a themepark. Games like that are WoW-clones. But not all themeparks have to be WoW-clones. Even if they are common.
A game based on exploring an open virtual world can also be a themepark. If all content is created by the developers it certainly is no true sandbox. Even if you need to explore and figure things out to find that content.
GW1 would become intially a much more successful game, and remain much more PVP oriented than it eventually did.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I can't blame WoW, Everquest was doing a great job of ruining its own game with instances, all WoW did was take EQ's direction and kick it up a notch....EQ killed early EQ's feel, not WoW...LDoN+ content that lived on instances.
I am just hopeful that the hybrid turn keeps up, and that eventually means a hybrid with some nice sandbox features, or even in 2-3 years a very nice sandbox with a few themepark features... I miss big open worlds, numerous starting cities, exploring, crafting/harvesting that is worth doing, and some open dungeons.
There's an interesting question;
Without WoW opening as of late '04, where would all of the refugees leaving EQ have gone?
Without something New and Shiny to encourage all of those players to leave for greener pastures, do they still abandon ship at all?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I will agree that EQ changed. However every game out there will always evolve, just as WoW did to the consternation of their fans.Kind of reminds me of music bands. You cant expect Metallica to be the same band they were when they were 19 years old. They will change and evolve with time. So will games. I am absolutley certain that if EQ remained at the top of the food chain they would have made alot of changes and decisions that not all fans would have agreed with. Although some would. The former would call the latter fanboys, and so the game goes on.
Yes, all things change, but change is not always for the better. There's also the classic saying "If it ain't broke, dont fix it." EQ had its die-hard fanbase. By trying to "fix" what wasn't broken, they shot themselves in the foot. SoE got greedy and tried to add a bigger audience to the game. In doing so, they alienated the people that made the game the success it was from the start.
We now see WoW making the same mistake.
Probly still be killing Lady Vox and Lord Nagafen in EQ.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Believe me, the possibility of Lineage/LineageII being the Clone target of choice frightens me much more.
EQ might have survived the EQ2 debacle in much better shape without WoW, or it might not. According to the sub graphs, the damage was already done, wasn't it? Players and the big raiding guilds already leaving?
Player's opinions of Sony were certainly at an all-time pre-NGE low in late '04.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I play with my wife, and i ran probably 40 of this same instance trying to get some guy these boots for his Shadow Knight, and I finally stopped doing it, but not my wife, she probably ran around 100.... I pretty much quit after my 40, and I had to be dragged back to play here and there....I can grind AA/XP, camp dungeons, whatever, but instances sapped my desire to play, I kept hoping the next EQ expansion would get away from instances, but they just got worse and worse...So I left.
I did not jump to WoW (well besides the beta). I saw WoW at the time as everything I hated about what EQ had started becoming, and those features on steroids...I also thought it was a mix of two games, been so long one eludes my memory, but the other was DAoC, but without meaning...I don't want to bash WoW or derail anything, just didn't fit my playstyle at the time, EQ had me hating instances so much by the time I had left, I was trying to stay away from them, which is about nearly impossible.
I may of popped back into UO or a 'alternate' UO for a bit, and then I landed in Vanguard, I had a brand new gaming computer so I didn't feel all the problems people with older computers got hit with. I loved Vanguard, its open play, big world, played on faction pvp, crafting/harvesting...They did do some compromises along the way to make it 'easier'/'more accesible'...But it was still better for me than my other options...Left when they stopped supporting PvP (I was not a huge PvPer, but liked the option) pretty much, as the server became a ghost town with people jumping to AoC as the new PvP savior.
If their was no WoW, EQ and EQ2, probably EQ2 would be the WoW now though, they could of been a lot more if their engine would of been more optimized, I think they lost a lot of potential players with the higher specs. I bought it and tried it, I just couldn't get excited about EQ2, it felt like I was starting over in EQ1 (due to knowing the lands, not the same type of game).
Lineage 2 failed on its own in NA.
WoW, I think, is fantastic because it brought to the mainstream the very same thing the mainstream shunned since the 1970s.
Role playing games. Blizzard made role playing games and geekdom cool. I loved the WoW when it was first released and the first expansion. You can't deny that Blizzard had their hearts in it when the game first started. Without WoW, you wouldn't have the plethora of choices for MMORPGs that you do now. Both the good and the bad. Right now, the bad side of the see-saw is predominating at the moment. But the balance will tip.
It usually does.
Re: SWTOR
"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"
[(14 million sales) and yes, I know how suspect that number is] is failing?
Just being a tenth that sucessful in a WoW-free world would have looked remarkable to all of the other game makers.
SOE in a steady decline from a 550k peak at the time...
What we can't truly predict is who gets the benefit of the perfect storm surrounding this time frame; whoever gets to market with at least a b-grade game?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
probably the console/CoD crowd wouldn't be interested in MMOs and of course, the MMO community would be way different than what it is now: a bunch of cry babies QQing for every single pixel
It would be like a world without mcdonalds.
I don't think many mmos would have even been made.
Almost certainly less people to care (and speculate).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I am no WoW fanboy by any means, but I think it has been great for the MMO industry. I feel that WoW has pushed development teams to crank out their best products to try to topple the Blizzard giant, or at least take some of their subscribers.
Propably less mainstream, niche genre, but with alot of diversity instead of the current litter of themeparks and copycat games.
Little evidence that WoW had a lot to do with the current breed of management.
Developers were copying each other's ideas a long, long time before the WoW Phenom, however.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.