It seems to me that the beta sign-up was done to gauge real interest in the game as it had been described to that point. It also seems to me that the two press beta weekends were done in a way to get real information about the game to the public so they would have plenty of understanding about whether or not they were going to be interested in buying/playing GW2 as it has been currently described by all the available information. . . Furthermore, IMO, the full pre-purchase is Arenanet's way assessing the real-world soundness of the confidence they have in their game model and design philosophy, and possibly getting NCSoft off of their back as far as pressure for release. I think the idea that they pre-sold between 100k and 250k copies so far is very realistic. That means between 6 and 15 (or more) million in income right now, and a demonstration of deep fan support for the current model, all working to give Anet the big thumbs-up on the new model, on their design philosophy, on the standard they are setting for the industry. . . This is one of the reasons I pre-purchased. I'm probably not going to be doing much playing of the beta, if any, but I want Anet to know I'm 100% behind their game mechanics and design philosophy as it is now, and I don't want them to be pressured by financial concerns to a premature release or a drastic change in game philosophy.
Unless there is a free trial the only difference between purchasing at launch versus pre-order/purchase is the date. You are still going off of available information to make your decision. Pre-order just gets a few bonus perks for the risk you take. It's just like making a deposit or a down payment. Also, when you go to a new restaurant you have never been to do you know you will like the food? No, you have to go off of available information - reviews, word of mouth, etc.
But they bring you the entire meal!
C'mon Spock, you know game developers are half-a$$ing release so stop the pretend. I know you like GW2 and all but lets be honest about it, pretty much ALL developers are half-a$$ing these days.
Look at Blizzard for crying out loud, releasing without PvP? This has now become acceptable? Pathetic I say.
Sometimes they don't bring out the entire meal. Sometimes the food is burnt. Sometimes they added extra onion instead of making it with no onion. These things can be fixed and you can still enjoy your meal. If the same restaurant keeps making mistakes like this, you probably won't go and eat there anymore. It's in their best interest to not keep making mistakes. And just like in gaming, if you really, really don't like it you can get a refund - but of course you can't finish the meal and then ask for a refund!
Um, if they don't bring out the entire meal they better go get it or I ain't payin'. And if it's crappy, I ain't payin'.
I never thought I'd say this but, you're starting sound a lot like a fanboi. Where is your common sense on this issue? How can you defend half-a$$ game releases, regardless of who's game it is and what title?
How about a little honesty Spock? Wouldn't that be logical?
You said it exactly. If it is THAT bad you ask for a refund - but not after you've already eaten the entire meal. Why are we disagreeing we are saying the same thing!
Because we're not saying the same thing Spock. You don't buy a Happy Meal from McDonald's knowing that they're going to get you your fries next week.
Geez...
Maybe the two of you can agree that this is simply a really bad analogy.
Keep in mind that these BWEs are more for stress testing and balance testing than anything. Of course, should any bugs that have slipped through the cracks show up they'll take care of them, but they're not intending this to be a bug test.
Unless there is a free trial the only difference between purchasing at launch versus pre-order/purchase is the date. You are still going off of available information to make your decision. Pre-order just gets a few bonus perks for the risk you take. It's just like making a deposit or a down payment. Also, when you go to a new restaurant you have never been to do you know you will like the food? No, you have to go off of available information - reviews, word of mouth, etc.
But they bring you the entire meal!
C'mon Spock, you know game developers are half-a$$ing release so stop the pretend. I know you like GW2 and all but lets be honest about it, pretty much ALL developers are half-a$$ing these days.
Look at Blizzard for crying out loud, releasing without PvP? This has now become acceptable? Pathetic I say.
Sometimes they don't bring out the entire meal. Sometimes the food is burnt. Sometimes they added extra onion instead of making it with no onion. These things can be fixed and you can still enjoy your meal. If the same restaurant keeps making mistakes like this, you probably won't go and eat there anymore. It's in their best interest to not keep making mistakes. And just like in gaming, if you really, really don't like it you can get a refund - but of course you can't finish the meal and then ask for a refund!
Um, if they don't bring out the entire meal they better go get it or I ain't payin'. And if it's crappy, I ain't payin'.
I never thought I'd say this but, you're starting sound a lot like a fanboi. Where is your common sense on this issue? How can you defend half-a$$ game releases, regardless of who's game it is and what title?
How about a little honesty Spock? Wouldn't that be logical?
You said it exactly. If it is THAT bad you ask for a refund - but not after you've already eaten the entire meal. Why are we disagreeing we are saying the same thing!
Because we're not saying the same thing Spock. You don't buy a Happy Meal from McDonald's knowing that they're going to get you your fries next week.
Geez...
Maybe we're stretching the metaphor too far...
When you order happy meal you know what you are getting in the box but you have no idea if it is going to taste good or not. If it doesn't taste good, you have them fix it or you get a refund.
Asking people to pre order a game still under a heavy NDA is wrong. I mean ultimiately people will make their own call, but this has SWToR written all over it.
Unless there is a free trial the only difference between purchasing at launch versus pre-order/purchase is the date. You are still going off of available information to make your decision. Pre-order just gets a few bonus perks for the risk you take. It's just like making a deposit or a down payment. Also, when you go to a new restaurant you have never been to do you know you will like the food? No, you have to go off of available information - reviews, word of mouth, etc.
But they bring you the entire meal!
C'mon Spock, you know game developers are half-a$$ing release so stop the pretend. I know you like GW2 and all but lets be honest about it, pretty much ALL developers are half-a$$ing these days.
Look at Blizzard for crying out loud, releasing without PvP? This has now become acceptable? Pathetic I say.
Sometimes they don't bring out the entire meal. Sometimes the food is burnt. Sometimes they added extra onion instead of making it with no onion. These things can be fixed and you can still enjoy your meal. If the same restaurant keeps making mistakes like this, you probably won't go and eat there anymore. It's in their best interest to not keep making mistakes. And just like in gaming, if you really, really don't like it you can get a refund - but of course you can't finish the meal and then ask for a refund!
Um, if they don't bring out the entire meal they better go get it or I ain't payin'. And if it's crappy, I ain't payin'.
I never thought I'd say this but, you're starting sound a lot like a fanboi. Where is your common sense on this issue? How can you defend half-a$$ game releases, regardless of who's game it is and what title?
How about a little honesty Spock? Wouldn't that be logical?
You said it exactly. If it is THAT bad you ask for a refund - but not after you've already eaten the entire meal. Why are we disagreeing we are saying the same thing!
Because we're not saying the same thing Spock. You don't buy a Happy Meal from McDonald's knowing that they're going to get you your fries next week.
Geez...
Maybe we're stretching the metaphor too far... When you order happy meal you know what you are getting in the box but you have no idea if it is going to taste good or not. If it doesn't taste good, you have them fix it or you get a refund.
And once again, the point is completely evading you. We're not talking about taste here Spock, we're talking about a (in)complete product.
You don't pay for food knowing you're not going to get it all. You don't pay for a car on a promise they're going to get you the seats next week. You don't buy a new house on a promise they're going to get you your bathrooms next month.
They're selling, and you're paying for, an incomplete product. This really isn't difficult to understand Spock, it's done all the time in the gaming inudstry. I've done it, you're doing it, and we've ALL done it.
C'mon already, I know you like the game but at least be honest here.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Asking people to pre order a game still under a heavy NDA is wrong. I mean ultimiately people will make their own call, but this has SWToR written all over it.
Wish I could say more..
The NDA is in effect for the prior beta, the BWE's will not be under NDA.
mmo topics with analogies should be cause for instant topic lock. It doesn't matter if you think your analogy is good or not, people are just going to argue back and forth how something isn't analogous, and it doesn't even matter because the very fact that it's analogous means you are likely comparing apples and oranges, and how someone deals with a car, or fast food, or whatever, does not mean that those standards should apply to how we treat an MMO.
"well bob, I bought fries the other day and it only cost me a dollar, therefore this mmo pricing structure sucks!"
It's so tiresome, just make it stop. (btw, um this editor is removing all my formatting)
Actually some people do buy unfinished food. It's called Community Supported Agriculture (CSA), you pay a subscription to a local organic farmer who once a week shares with you some of the harvest. People who do this don't know exactly what they will get.
If you support any of the game kickstarter campaigns then you are essentially pre-purchasing the games. I'm supporting four.
I bought the Guild Wars 2 prepurchase yesterday knowing that the game was not completely finished and the cash shop items had not been finalized... and I thought I'd share why I've done this despite never having ever preordered a game before.
How many MMOs change after you purchase them? All of them do, and most change in very drastic ways over the years. Buying a finished MMO doesn't guarantee that the game won't change for the worse at any given time.
How many cash shops change over time? I'm not aware of any game with a cash shop that doesn't add, remove or modify the items that they sell through the cash shop over time.
Given the numerous Guild Wars 2 beta videos that are out there I am confident that Guild Wars 2 is not just playable but has more polish than some recent final releases have had despite being incomplete. I'm not afraid of a Vanguard repeat. Even more, since Guild Wars 2 has no monthly fee the only way for them to keep making money off the game is to make the game so fun that I want to keep coming back to buy expansions and cash shop items. This isn't a problem for me.
Given Arenanet's reputation with Guild Wars and knowing that players can trade in-game gold for cash shop gems, I am not concerned with future cash shop items. If the cash shop items ruin the game then I'll stop playing... until the problem is addressed. The game has no monthly fee. I'm not out anything if I decide to play some other game. It's not like I'll have a subscription burning while I stew over unpopular changes to the game. This isn't a problem for me.
If you're not sure about the game or the cash shop then don't prepurchase it. It's not like they're going to run out of digital copies after the game is released. Wait and see. I'm sure that other people who have prepurchased, like me, will be posting game reviews after each beta weekend all the way up to and after the game's release.
I don't think that prepurchasing an unfinished game usually makes sense but it did for me this time. I'd probably prepurchase diablo 3 (in fact, didn't people already do this by signing up for blizzard's annual pass thing?) since blizzard is fairly reputable, but I can't think of any other games that I'd do this for off the top of my head.
I fully understand and respect your reasons for prepurchasing.
I am of the opposite opinion. The cash shop is quite a sticking point for me, and I dont want to purchase the game until we have full disclosure on what will be in it.
I also dont want to prepurchase the game without seeing some proper balanced reviews of it from real players, or playing the beta for myself.
If this was a Preorder then I may have done differently as you can easily cancel a preorder if down the road you dont like what you see.
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
Asking people to pre order a game still under a heavy NDA is wrong. I mean ultimiately people will make their own call, but this has SWToR written all over it.
Wish I could say more..
Nobody really cares what you have to say.
The people that pre purchase did so knowing full well what they were getting themselves into. Nobody that pre purchase is a child most of htem are adults and they do so knowing full well what they are risking.
Also, a better analogy would be putting a down payment on a car(used) or house(not new). You might have a basic idea of how the house or car is, but you wont until a few weeks later.
There is a rather big difference between a pre-order and a pre-purchase. Its easy to cancel a pre-order...
In this case the game is not finished, there is NDA and we dont know the release date. I would be very careful regardless how good I hoped and believed the game would be.
Asking people to pre order a game still under a heavy NDA is wrong. I mean ultimiately people will make their own call, but this has SWToR written all over it. Wish I could say more..
Nobody really cares what you have to say.
The people that pre purchase did so knowing full well what they were getting themselves into. Nobody that pre purchase is a child most of htem are adults and they do so knowing full well what they are risking.
Also, a better analogy would be putting a down payment on a car(used) or house(not new). You might have a basic idea of how the house or car is, but you wont until a few weeks later.
Exactly. Point I've been trying to make all along. Food analogy got a little off track lol my bad.
And once again, the point is completely evading you. We're not talking about taste here Spock, we're talking about a (in)complete product.
You don't pay for food knowing you're not going to get it all. You don't pay for a car on a promise they're going to get you the seats next week. You don't buy a new house on a promise they're going to get you your bathrooms next month.
They're selling, and you're paying, for an incomplete product. This really isn't difficult to understand Spock, it's done all the time in the gaming inudstry. I've done it, you're doing it, and we've ALL done it.
C'mon already, I know you like the game but at least be honest here.
You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind, you don't pull the mask of the ol' Lone Ranger and you don't pass up the chance to:
1. Get into all the betas prior to release
2. Get neat stuffs.
3. Get a three day head start.
About the incomplete product... they already stated in the past they wouldn't have BWE's until they felt the game was pretty complete. All this is is stress testing, balance testing and of course a crapload of free publicity, which is risky in itself because if the game fails in the BWE's the overall impression will be of fail. Think of this as buying a pair of shoes then waiting for them to shine them for you. You've already had them fitted, they're comfy and you can't wait to pick up chicks with them.
I've never tried to argue that point Zek - all MMOs are unfinished when you buy them. Kind of been true for over a decade. Once again, GW2 pre-order is "business as usual" in the MMO genre.
No, you just tried to avoid the point but thanks anyway. I'd like to see more reason on these forums, people tend to lose sense of reality over games. It's like common sense is thrown out the window just because we're a fan of the game.
Let's stop the madness for a change, perhaps then we'll start to see this half-a$$ery in the gaming industry stop. Perhaps.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Good post, i have no qualms about pre-purchasing i have always thought GW2 was going to rock and was fortunate enough to try the game demo last year and lucky enough to get into the beta a couple of weeks ago where i fell head over heels in love with this game..
IMHO and based on the incredibly fun experiences i had nearly non stop in the beta up to level 19 and its awesome anet ending finale it was everything anet and the media hounds have said it is plus a bunch more, and there is nobody trying to pull the wool over our eyes because i seen a lot in the game with my own eyes...
There has never been a game like this so we dont know what to expect mid way and in the endgame but i banked my money that arenanet has it right...
I would have pre-purchased regardless of getting hands on but actually experiencing it confirmed that this is the game i have waited for a very long time..
Nice one i was expecting another drongo of a post after just reading the title but you make some valid points,as i'm in the same boat but as it's B2P as you say this is more like buying a normal game so the risk factor with no monthly commitment is pretty much zero
But on the other hand this is a Mo no Mo ever released is finished that is the nature of the beast they are always in development,and for all these people moaning about the cash shop get with the program F2P with a shop now seems the common denominator as subbed games seem to be going the way of the dinosaur these days.
Asking people to pre order a game still under a heavy NDA is wrong. I mean ultimiately people will make their own call, but this has SWToR written all over it.
Wish I could say more..
TSW is asking people to buy a lifetime sub while it is under an NDA far heavier than GW2 and that is a game you should worry about. GW2 is under a very light NDA. It only truely applies to the cash shop and non press. Now this COULD be an issue if we only saw tiny snippets of gameplay.. but we aren't! We are seeing hours and hours of gameplay from all over! I think I alone have watched at least 5 hrs of unique gameplay. That is more than beta footage than I have ever seen.
I find it amusing how people are freaking out about the pre purchase and/or the CS. No one is forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to do. If you don't want to pre purchase and wait for more info to be disclosed, by all means do so. If you don't like or are not sure about the CS and want more info, again, by all means wait for more info/game release. I wonder how many people who bought Diablo 3 via WOW'S annual pass are trolling about GW2's pre purchase. If there's anything people should be freaking out about is having to pay monthly subs. If Blizzard can still make a profit after selling Diable 3 via WOW's monthly subs, that should make you upset. How many times have you bought the game over and over again over the course of the years? I like Anets business model and I hope more companies (Blizzard/Bioware) follow suit.
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Furthermore, IMO, the full pre-purchase is Arenanet's way assessing the real-world soundness of the confidence they have in their game model and design philosophy, and possibly getting NCSoft off of their back as far as pressure for release. I think the idea that they pre-sold between 100k and 250k copies so far is very realistic. That means between 6 and 15 (or more) million in income right now, and a demonstration of deep fan support for the current model, all working to give Anet the big thumbs-up on the new model, on their design philosophy, on the standard they are setting for the industry.
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This is one of the reasons I pre-purchased. I'm probably not going to be doing much playing of the beta, if any, but I want Anet to know I'm 100% behind their game mechanics and design philosophy as it is now, and I don't want them to be pressured by financial concerns to a premature release or a drastic change in game philosophy.
Maybe the two of you can agree that this is simply a really bad analogy.
Keep in mind that these BWEs are more for stress testing and balance testing than anything. Of course, should any bugs that have slipped through the cracks show up they'll take care of them, but they're not intending this to be a bug test.
Oderint, dum metuant.
But they bring you the entire meal!
C'mon Spock, you know game developers are half-a$$ing release so stop the pretend. I know you like GW2 and all but lets be honest about it, pretty much ALL developers are half-a$$ing these days.
Look at Blizzard for crying out loud, releasing without PvP? This has now become acceptable? Pathetic I say.
Sometimes they don't bring out the entire meal. Sometimes the food is burnt. Sometimes they added extra onion instead of making it with no onion. These things can be fixed and you can still enjoy your meal. If the same restaurant keeps making mistakes like this, you probably won't go and eat there anymore. It's in their best interest to not keep making mistakes. And just like in gaming, if you really, really don't like it you can get a refund - but of course you can't finish the meal and then ask for a refund!Um, if they don't bring out the entire meal they better go get it or I ain't payin'. And if it's crappy, I ain't payin'.
I never thought I'd say this but, you're starting sound a lot like a fanboi. Where is your common sense on this issue? How can you defend half-a$$ game releases, regardless of who's game it is and what title?
How about a little honesty Spock? Wouldn't that be logical?
You said it exactly. If it is THAT bad you ask for a refund - but not after you've already eaten the entire meal. Why are we disagreeing we are saying the same thing!Because we're not saying the same thing Spock. You don't buy a Happy Meal from McDonald's knowing that they're going to get you your fries next week.
Geez...
Maybe we're stretching the metaphor too far...When you order happy meal you know what you are getting in the box but you have no idea if it is going to taste good or not. If it doesn't taste good, you have them fix it or you get a refund.
Asking people to pre order a game still under a heavy NDA is wrong. I mean ultimiately people will make their own call, but this has SWToR written all over it.
Wish I could say more..
and 99% of MMOs are under NDA when the pre-order opens. This is "business as usual" in the MMO world.
And once again, the point is completely evading you. We're not talking about taste here Spock, we're talking about a (in)complete product.
You don't pay for food knowing you're not going to get it all. You don't pay for a car on a promise they're going to get you the seats next week. You don't buy a new house on a promise they're going to get you your bathrooms next month.
They're selling, and you're paying for, an incomplete product. This really isn't difficult to understand Spock, it's done all the time in the gaming inudstry. I've done it, you're doing it, and we've ALL done it.
C'mon already, I know you like the game but at least be honest here.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
The NDA is in effect for the prior beta, the BWE's will not be under NDA.
Oderint, dum metuant.
"well bob, I bought fries the other day and it only cost me a dollar, therefore this mmo pricing structure sucks!"
It's so tiresome, just make it stop. (btw, um this editor is removing all my formatting)
Kind of been true for over a decade.
Once again, GW2 pre-order is "business as usual" in the MMO genre.
If you support any of the game kickstarter campaigns then you are essentially pre-purchasing the games. I'm supporting four.
I fully understand and respect your reasons for prepurchasing.
I am of the opposite opinion. The cash shop is quite a sticking point for me, and I dont want to purchase the game until we have full disclosure on what will be in it.
I also dont want to prepurchase the game without seeing some proper balanced reviews of it from real players, or playing the beta for myself.
If this was a Preorder then I may have done differently as you can easily cancel a preorder if down the road you dont like what you see.
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
Nobody really cares what you have to say.
The people that pre purchase did so knowing full well what they were getting themselves into. Nobody that pre purchase is a child most of htem are adults and they do so knowing full well what they are risking.
Also, a better analogy would be putting a down payment on a car(used) or house(not new). You might have a basic idea of how the house or car is, but you wont until a few weeks later.
In this case the game is not finished, there is NDA and we dont know the release date.
I would be very careful regardless how good I hoped and believed the game would be.
Nobody really cares what you have to say.
The people that pre purchase did so knowing full well what they were getting themselves into. Nobody that pre purchase is a child most of htem are adults and they do so knowing full well what they are risking.
Also, a better analogy would be putting a down payment on a car(used) or house(not new). You might have a basic idea of how the house or car is, but you wont until a few weeks later.
Exactly. Point I've been trying to make all along. Food analogy got a little off track lol my bad.You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind, you don't pull the mask of the ol' Lone Ranger and you don't pass up the chance to:
1. Get into all the betas prior to release
2. Get neat stuffs.
3. Get a three day head start.
About the incomplete product... they already stated in the past they wouldn't have BWE's until they felt the game was pretty complete. All this is is stress testing, balance testing and of course a crapload of free publicity, which is risky in itself because if the game fails in the BWE's the overall impression will be of fail. Think of this as buying a pair of shoes then waiting for them to shine them for you. You've already had them fitted, they're comfy and you can't wait to pick up chicks with them.
Oderint, dum metuant.
No, you just tried to avoid the point but thanks anyway. I'd like to see more reason on these forums, people tend to lose sense of reality over games. It's like common sense is thrown out the window just because we're a fan of the game.
Let's stop the madness for a change, perhaps then we'll start to see this half-a$$ery in the gaming industry stop. Perhaps.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
IMHO and based on the incredibly fun experiences i had nearly non stop in the beta up to level 19 and its awesome anet ending finale it was everything anet and the media hounds have said it is plus a bunch more, and there is nobody trying to pull the wool over our eyes because i seen a lot in the game with my own eyes...
There has never been a game like this so we dont know what to expect mid way and in the endgame but i banked my money that arenanet has it right...
I would have pre-purchased regardless of getting hands on but actually experiencing it confirmed that this is the game i have waited for a very long time..
Playing GW2..
Nice one i was expecting another drongo of a post after just reading the title but you make some valid points,as i'm in the same boat but as it's B2P as you say this is more like buying a normal game so the risk factor with no monthly commitment is pretty much zero
But on the other hand this is a Mo no Mo ever released is finished that is the nature of the beast they are always in development,and for all these people moaning about the cash shop get with the program F2P with a shop now seems the common denominator as subbed games seem to be going the way of the dinosaur these days.
In the not to distant future every single MMO on the market wether you pay a monthly sub or not will have some form of cash shop in it.
That's my question. If you feel something is half assed don't buy it.
As long as you are making an informed decision, only person to blame is yourself.
I pre-purchased and I feel it was an informed decision. I see the exact opposite of "half assery"
I accept that it is still a risk and that I could hate the game and feel remorseful about the money I spent on it.
But that is life man.
TSW is asking people to buy a lifetime sub while it is under an NDA far heavier than GW2 and that is a game you should worry about. GW2 is under a very light NDA. It only truely applies to the cash shop and non press. Now this COULD be an issue if we only saw tiny snippets of gameplay.. but we aren't! We are seeing hours and hours of gameplay from all over! I think I alone have watched at least 5 hrs of unique gameplay. That is more than beta footage than I have ever seen.
Comments like this only incite others.its already very close to that right now...
its already very close to that right now...
Actually, I can't name any off of the top of my head that don't.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil