i'm opposed to the simplistic way that it was presented.
almost anything has potential to be used well, if it has enough supporting elements that interact with it in interesting ways.
simply having an extra item to put in and take out of the bank over and over again depending on what environment you want to explore, is only annoyance, with no interesting interplay with the rest of the games elements.
it COULD be designed to be interesting with other supporting elements/aspects of the game, but until somebody designs those, and presents a fleshed out and interesting use of them..............
i'm not gonna spend MY time trying to flesh out that (so far) simplistic idea when i have thousands of other more promising game design ideas to concern myself with.
its no worse than several other well established RPG cliches that are just pointless busywork tho......... so for people who don't see them as being pointless...... by all means. add a shitload of these kind of things to your game. have your fun.
the majority seems to like it, and might DOES make right..... WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO commercial concerns.
For me, something like that...:
-shouldn't be created to punish players.
-should never be crippling.
-should largely be focused on trying to bring more immersion to the environment, rather than creating more tedium. It should give the feeling that your character is toughing it out, plodding through a stinging, blinding snowstorm, for example. LotRO, the east side of the Misty Mountains comes to mind, where the snow can blow so hard that visibility is severely diminished. That sort of extreme should be pretty rare(though I wish they'd extend it to the basic weather system, on occasion), but IMO it's those sorts of things that make a zone stand out among others.
as far as immersion goes, the picture of the woman in a metal bikini standing in the snow IS immersion breaking, and i am all for trying to take care of things like that when it doesn't make gameplay more annoying.
for my tastes, gameplay smoothness usually takes precedence over immersion.
i wouldn't have metal bikinis in the first place....... but if i was gonna try to solve this, i would just make wintercoats that could be worn over armour, and make it soulbound. and automatically put it on and take it off as regional temperatures dictated.
now that i think of it, its the same way GW2 is doing with the underwater breathing masks.
no inventory or bank space to occupy, no hassle to change clothes, no running to the bank to get/take these kinds of items.
for anyone that hates my "solution" (to the visual appearance problem),......... do you also hate GW2's underwater mask? if not, where does the difference lie?
as far as immersion goes, the picture of the woman in a metal bikini standing in the snow IS immersion breaking, and i am all for trying to take care of things like that when it doesn't make gameplay more annoying.
for my tastes, gameplay smoothness usually takes precedence over immersion.
i wouldn't have metal bikinis in the first place....... but if i was gonna try to solve this, i would just make wintercoats that could be worn over armour, and make it soulbound. and automatically put it on and take it off as regional temperatures dictated.
now that i think of it, its the same way GW2 is doing with the underwater breathing masks.
no inventory or bank space to occupy, no hassle to change clothes, no running to the bank to get/take these kinds of items.
for anyone that hates my "solution" (to the visual appearance problem),......... do you also hate GW2's underwater mask? if not, where does the difference lie?
Everyone knows one of the cardinal rules of RPGery is that the less skin a female character's armor covers, the more it protects her. This, sir, is sacrilige!
Seriously, though, its not a terrible idea, but I think it should be something that's selectable, like how a lot of games allow you to hide your helmet. A lot of people go to great lengths to customize their characters' appearances. Its not really fair to go and hide their customizations from them without their consent.
I understand you're going for realism, but not everyone likes "too much" realism.
I understand you're going for realism, but not everyone likes "too much" realism.
i don't know that i ever go for "realism". its one of my main rants against most of the things i hate in modern games. such as all the military fetish FPS games. the gameplay gets severely hampered by trying to be too "realistic". and always fails at being realistic anyways.
i am ANTI-realism to a large extent.
i just like attempts to be made to suspend disbelief........WHEN it can be done without mucking up the gameplay.
I understand you're going for realism, but not everyone likes "too much" realism.
Mostly agree. My hopes aren't really so much about realism(particularly of the "gotcha" kind... DM: "you didn't say you ate rations... you starve to death. Reroll...") at all, but rather that the environment means something. Even if it's something as simple as a character doing a shivering emote when standing still in the cold or whatnot. Some indication that your character is standing around in sub-zero weather, other than the fact that the ground is white.
Not to start another topic, but to me it's much like the difference between a game where in a fight, weapons connect and visually block and strike an opponent, and a game where 2 avatars swing a weapon in the other's general direction while a bunch of numbers fly up.
Silly as it is, I always had that idea for a game. Realism can be really engaging into the environment if done right. Biggest issue comes into placing it in a game without making it to tedious. It won't work on every game but there are some that I see it being great in.
I understand you're going for realism, but not everyone likes "too much" realism.
Mostly agree. My hopes aren't really so much about realism(particularly of the "gotcha" kind... DM: "you didn't say you ate rations... you starve to death. Reroll...") at all, but rather that the environment means something. Even if it's something as simple as a character doing a shivering emote when standing still in the cold or whatnot. Some indication that your character is standing around in sub-zero weather, other than the fact that the ground is white.
Not to start another topic, but to me it's much like the difference between a game where in a fight, weapons connect and visually block and strike an opponent, and a game where 2 avatars swing a weapon in the other's general direction while a bunch of numbers fly up.
exactly those kinda things are my idea as to the proper "solution". coats (visuals), shivering animations, spewing breath clouds out of your mouth, maybe sniffling, chattering teeth, etc..... things that don't muck up the gameplay but just increase the immersion.
as far as immersion goes, the picture of the woman in a metal bikini standing in the snow IS immersion breaking, and i am all for trying to take care of things like that when it doesn't make gameplay more annoying.
I actually don't see it that way, because in real life, you will constantly see girls go out in 0 degree weather with the skimpiest outfits imaginable.
I remember one of the coldest winters where I, a person who rarely has to get warmer and loves the cold, had to wear a jacket (or maybe even a coat). I was going to the mall, and while I was there this girl walked in wearing those hip fad eskimo boots, and absolutely nothing until her butt cheek (the short shorts were REALLY short), and a top that covered only her upper torso (with no sleeves). Probably one of the most skimpiest outfits ive ever seen, on one of the coldest days I've ever been in.
Anytime it ever gets really really cold, you will still see women dressing up as if the weather didn't matter because fashion is far more important to them than comfort will ever be.
So to see a metal bikini girl standing in the snow, to me, is the opposite of immersion breaking. It actually makes perfect sense, because that is EXACTLY what some girls are like in real life.
I remember one of the coldest winters where I, a person who rarely has to get warmer and loves the cold, had to wear a jacket (or maybe even a coat). I was going to the mall, and while I was there this girl walked in wearing those hip fad eskimo boots, and absolutely nothing until her butt cheek (the short shorts were REALLY short), and a top that covered only her upper torso (with no sleeves). Probably one of the most skimpiest outfits ive ever seen, on one of the coldest days I've ever been in.
So to see a metal bikini girl standing in the snow, to me, is the opposite of immersion breaking. It actually makes perfect sense, because that is EXACTLY what some girls are like in real life.
sure..... completely ignore the context. there is an extreme difference between being right next to a heated building and being able to take a little bit of cold for brief periods, versus being out in a blizzard far away from civilization. one is a minor annoyance, and the other is a matter of life and death.
you mentioned in another thread about a "personal vendetta".
thats exactly what this seems like. saying something completely irrational, seemingly just to oppose me. but then again, it may be just that you are always posting irrational things, regardless of what anyone else posts. and maybe you really DO think it makes perfect sense. i wouldn't want to bet on where the truth lies. 8)
So to see a metal bikini girl standing in the snow, to me, is the opposite of immersion breaking. It actually makes perfect sense, because that is EXACTLY what some girls are like in real life.
sure..... completely ignore the context. there is an extreme difference between being right next to a heated building and being able to take a little bit of cold for brief periods, versus being out in a blizzard far away from civilization. one is a minor annoyance, and the other is a matter of life and death.
I guess no one here is allowed to have any fun or interesting conversations huh?
Captain Buzz Kill and the Bringdown Police are here to make sure none of that happens.
Most people couldnt even handle real open pvp which adds realism, but you want to be annoyed with changing clothes all the time? How about we also make it so our inventory is more realistic, also need to eat often, drink, sleep.... I just know it wouldn't be fun.
Most people couldnt even handle real open pvp which adds realism, but you want to be annoyed with changing clothes all the time? How about we also make it so our inventory is more realistic, also need to eat often, drink, sleep.... I just know it wouldn't be fun.
What aspects of "real open pvp" are you talking about? That's a broad statement, and I think there are plenty of games that address various forms of "open PvP", so what do you think is lacking?
Are these "comfort meters" visible through, say, a tank top on a chilly day?
You may be on to something!
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
A comfort meter would be awesome. It would add another layer to the game play and immersion. Other meters I would like to see would be morale. Victories would increase moral while deaths and revivals would decrease it. It is a shame people will just throw money at another WoW clone instead.
sure..... completely ignore the context. there is an extreme difference between being right next to a heated building and being able to take a little bit of cold for brief periods, versus being out in a blizzard far away from civilization. one is a minor annoyance, and the other is a matter of life and death.
And none of these differences matter much in a GAME with MAGIC.
Do we have to simulate itchy poison ivy and the urge to click and scratch every 5 min too. That is .. realistic .. you know.
sure..... completely ignore the context. there is an extreme difference between being right next to a heated building and being able to take a little bit of cold for brief periods, versus being out in a blizzard far away from civilization. one is a minor annoyance, and the other is a matter of life and death.
And none of these differences matter much in a GAME with MAGIC.
Do we have to simulate itchy poison ivy and the urge to click and scratch every 5 min too. That is .. realistic .. you know.
and nothing you just said has anything to do with me. maybe you should actually read the thread before spouting your same ole same ole all the time.
its completely out of context when you try to apply it to me, a person well-known for arguing against realism in games.
good old repetitive narius. always with the same old crusades and not even knowing who he is even fighting.
sure..... completely ignore the context. there is an extreme difference between being right next to a heated building and being able to take a little bit of cold for brief periods, versus being out in a blizzard far away from civilization. one is a minor annoyance, and the other is a matter of life and death.
And none of these differences matter much in a GAME with MAGIC.
Do we have to simulate itchy poison ivy and the urge to click and scratch every 5 min too. That is .. realistic .. you know.
No if that's how you are thinking about this discussion then you are confused/mistaken or have gone off on a tangent. It's elements that actually add the RP of RPG.
It's not something meant to be game breaking or becoming a hassle to the player. Where it begins to feel like work.. We discussed this early in the topic..
Perhaps you should've checked those previous post out..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
I like the idea quite a lot, though it would depend on the game setting (fantasy, sci-fi etc) on exactly how it was implemented & what changes.
I agree the bikini in the snow thing is plain daft, but then if you were in the burning depths of some inter-dimensional hell you wouldn't go wearing a thong either, unless you like being crispy-fried...
If say, it was a fantasy game & your character automatically selected clothes to suit the environment, that would certainly add another layer of immersion, hooded oilskin for the rain, heavy animal skins for the cold etc etc, though I'd not want to be wearing truly skimpy clothes in a battle, except under particular circumstances (like as part of a story/quest you're thrown into prison & end up having to fight nearly-naked in a bare-fisted brawl/arena fight to earn your freedom).
Comments
For me, something like that...:
-shouldn't be created to punish players.
-should never be crippling.
-should largely be focused on trying to bring more immersion to the environment, rather than creating more tedium. It should give the feeling that your character is toughing it out, plodding through a stinging, blinding snowstorm, for example. LotRO, the east side of the Misty Mountains comes to mind, where the snow can blow so hard that visibility is severely diminished. That sort of extreme should be pretty rare(though I wish they'd extend it to the basic weather system, on occasion), but IMO it's those sorts of things that make a zone stand out among others.
as far as immersion goes, the picture of the woman in a metal bikini standing in the snow IS immersion breaking, and i am all for trying to take care of things like that when it doesn't make gameplay more annoying.
for my tastes, gameplay smoothness usually takes precedence over immersion.
i wouldn't have metal bikinis in the first place....... but if i was gonna try to solve this, i would just make wintercoats that could be worn over armour, and make it soulbound. and automatically put it on and take it off as regional temperatures dictated.
now that i think of it, its the same way GW2 is doing with the underwater breathing masks.
no inventory or bank space to occupy, no hassle to change clothes, no running to the bank to get/take these kinds of items.
for anyone that hates my "solution" (to the visual appearance problem),......... do you also hate GW2's underwater mask? if not, where does the difference lie?
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
Everyone knows one of the cardinal rules of RPGery is that the less skin a female character's armor covers, the more it protects her. This, sir, is sacrilige!
Seriously, though, its not a terrible idea, but I think it should be something that's selectable, like how a lot of games allow you to hide your helmet. A lot of people go to great lengths to customize their characters' appearances. Its not really fair to go and hide their customizations from them without their consent.
I understand you're going for realism, but not everyone likes "too much" realism.
Might add to the fun of a mmorpg... not putting a wool cloak to keep you warm, you may be able to inflict damage with your pokies as a female toon...
Pokies inflicted 38 damage to the wolf.
When the hype is so high, the fall is long and painful.
i don't know that i ever go for "realism". its one of my main rants against most of the things i hate in modern games. such as all the military fetish FPS games. the gameplay gets severely hampered by trying to be too "realistic". and always fails at being realistic anyways.
i am ANTI-realism to a large extent.
i just like attempts to be made to suspend disbelief........WHEN it can be done without mucking up the gameplay.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
Silly as it is, I always had that idea for a game. Realism can be really engaging into the environment if done right. Biggest issue comes into placing it in a game without making it to tedious. It won't work on every game but there are some that I see it being great in.
exactly those kinda things are my idea as to the proper "solution". coats (visuals), shivering animations, spewing breath clouds out of your mouth, maybe sniffling, chattering teeth, etc..... things that don't muck up the gameplay but just increase the immersion.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
I actually don't see it that way, because in real life, you will constantly see girls go out in 0 degree weather with the skimpiest outfits imaginable.
I remember one of the coldest winters where I, a person who rarely has to get warmer and loves the cold, had to wear a jacket (or maybe even a coat). I was going to the mall, and while I was there this girl walked in wearing those hip fad eskimo boots, and absolutely nothing until her butt cheek (the short shorts were REALLY short), and a top that covered only her upper torso (with no sleeves). Probably one of the most skimpiest outfits ive ever seen, on one of the coldest days I've ever been in.
Anytime it ever gets really really cold, you will still see women dressing up as if the weather didn't matter because fashion is far more important to them than comfort will ever be.
So to see a metal bikini girl standing in the snow, to me, is the opposite of immersion breaking. It actually makes perfect sense, because that is EXACTLY what some girls are like in real life.
I want to live where you live
sure..... completely ignore the context. there is an extreme difference between being right next to a heated building and being able to take a little bit of cold for brief periods, versus being out in a blizzard far away from civilization. one is a minor annoyance, and the other is a matter of life and death.
you mentioned in another thread about a "personal vendetta".
thats exactly what this seems like. saying something completely irrational, seemingly just to oppose me. but then again, it may be just that you are always posting irrational things, regardless of what anyone else posts. and maybe you really DO think it makes perfect sense. i wouldn't want to bet on where the truth lies. 8)
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
I guess no one here is allowed to have any fun or interesting conversations huh?
Captain Buzz Kill and the Bringdown Police are here to make sure none of that happens.
What aspects of "real open pvp" are you talking about? That's a broad statement, and I think there are plenty of games that address various forms of "open PvP", so what do you think is lacking?
Are these "comfort meters" visible through, say, a tank top on a chilly day?
You may be on to something!
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
lol
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
A comfort meter would be awesome. It would add another layer to the game play and immersion. Other meters I would like to see would be morale. Victories would increase moral while deaths and revivals would decrease it. It is a shame people will just throw money at another WoW clone instead.
And none of these differences matter much in a GAME with MAGIC.
Do we have to simulate itchy poison ivy and the urge to click and scratch every 5 min too. That is .. realistic .. you know.
and nothing you just said has anything to do with me. maybe you should actually read the thread before spouting your same ole same ole all the time.
its completely out of context when you try to apply it to me, a person well-known for arguing against realism in games.
good old repetitive narius. always with the same old crusades and not even knowing who he is even fighting.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
No if that's how you are thinking about this discussion then you are confused/mistaken or have gone off on a tangent. It's elements that actually add the RP of RPG.
It's not something meant to be game breaking or becoming a hassle to the player. Where it begins to feel like work.. We discussed this early in the topic..
Perhaps you should've checked those previous post out..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
I like the idea quite a lot, though it would depend on the game setting (fantasy, sci-fi etc) on exactly how it was implemented & what changes.
I agree the bikini in the snow thing is plain daft, but then if you were in the burning depths of some inter-dimensional hell you wouldn't go wearing a thong either, unless you like being crispy-fried...
If say, it was a fantasy game & your character automatically selected clothes to suit the environment, that would certainly add another layer of immersion, hooded oilskin for the rain, heavy animal skins for the cold etc etc, though I'd not want to be wearing truly skimpy clothes in a battle, except under particular circumstances (like as part of a story/quest you're thrown into prison & end up having to fight nearly-naked in a bare-fisted brawl/arena fight to earn your freedom).