I voted no because a map does not make a game, and your actual poll question is 'would you play this based on map alone'. I would never play a game just based on a map, whether I liked the map or not... the other gameplay features have far more relevance on my overall enjoyment (combat, crafting, social, economy, instanced v non-instanced)
If the poll matched the topic thread, I would have voted world, and I like the gameplay elements you discuss (open world seamless etc).
You didnt ask about whether the game mechanics or concepts will work, which is what really matters.
Oh absolutely. I know when I look at a fantasy map I wonder what places are like and "Oooo I want to explore this and that and go here and there". It would be interesting if I could post all of the game mechanics I have designed for this. But it would be really long and I doubt anyone would read it.
Personally, the game mechanics that grab me more are sandboxish. I want to build, refine, create books and ale, being able to craft a staff, or put up a fence. Craft a boat, and put it down the river. etc.
Too much of a "developed" map may not leave too much room for player construction or items to grab in order to make armor dye, etc.
The game mechanics that compliment this world map are geared towards mostly "themepark" elements in which I perfer. However, I do like some sandbox elements as well. The stuff you listed I want players to do exactly that. Travel was a major issue with me for this world map because of the themepark elements. I wanted to freely travel but within a certain restrictions. I didn't want those restrictions to be because of zone level.
So looking at the map and hearing what people describe it brings up thoughts of Asherons Call, Shadowbane and Darkfall... All very heavy PvP games. It just seems weird that there are so many people that want to play in this type of world/game yet Developers are going away from it. Why? Because they don't sell as well and don't hold their numbers as well as WoW type games.
Well I say that. I mean Asherons Call and Shadowbane are both old (gone) and darkfall while being several years old has full loot that turns a lot of people off for some reason. So by going off of what people say they want and what people actually pay for is a hard thing for Developers I'm guesssing. Would people(how many does it take these days for Dev's to keep the game servers going) actually pay for a huge open world that didn't cater to the raid happy, carrot chasing gamers like those playing WoW and WoW Clones? I mean that's all I hear about SWOTR is that the end game raiding/fake pvp is horrible and pointless. Well guess what the end game raiding/fake pvp in any game is pointless. Who care if one of them is more polished than another. It's just carrot chasing turned to diamond chasing.
Personally I hate WoW and the games that it has spawned. I haven't found any of them to hold my attention for more than a couple of months if that and it isn't ever because of end game.
I liked logging into a World and being able to decide what I wanted to do that day. Having the option to just start traveling from one point on the map to another without having to run up this path to get to this town to get on the bird/horse to fly me to another point on the map. However I also like PvP so those games mentioned were all fun to me and I would love to see a new Asherson's Call done right, not done as AC 2 was or a new Shadowbane. Darkfall to me is the closest thing we have out there.
your map looks surprisingly like Darkfall's world of Agon.
have you seen the Agon map?
I have seen Agon before. I was about to ask you why do you think like that and I do now. The locations of different climates are relatively close in both maps. I did not intend to make my world map like Agon. This is actually a pangaea map that is composed of 6 other small maps.
i think you already answered this in another thread, but
are you an artist of any kind?
Nope Corp I am not. I wish I was because I could put my imagination to work in a more practical way. I really enjoy cartography and this is the best map I could make with the program I used. Curious, why do you ask?
your map looks surprisingly like Darkfall's world of Agon.
have you seen the Agon map?
I have seen Agon before. I was about to ask you why do you think like that and I do now. The locations of different climates are relatively close in both maps. I did not intend to make my world map like Agon. This is actually a pangaea map that is composed of 6 other small maps.
i think you already answered this in another thread, but
are you an artist of any kind?
Nope Corp I am not. I wish I was because I could put my imagination to work in a more practical way. I really enjoy cartography and this is the best map I could make with the program I used. Curious, why do you ask?
i like most of your (from the other thread) overly ambitious ideas 8) and that you are motivated to produce art of a sort (the map, which i like)......
it just got my pessimistic
(to this particular subject, since all of many, many potential leads over the years turned out to mean nothing)
wheels turning.... thinking...... wondering if there was any way i could leverage some kind of creative output from you.
I voted no because a map does not make a game, and your actual poll question is 'would you play this based on map alone'. I would never play a game just based on a map, whether I liked the map or not... the other gameplay features have far more relevance on my overall enjoyment (combat, crafting, social, economy, instanced v non-instanced)
If the poll matched the topic thread, I would have voted world, and I like the gameplay elements you discuss (open world seamless etc).
As I said earlier I was trying to show off the map and have this discussion. I should of made a better question for the poll. But I wanted people to check out the map too :P. I wouldn't play a game based on the map alone either, but if I just saw a world map like is presented in this thread; it would greatly interest me to at least find more about the gameplay elements. Was attempting to spark imagination.
your map looks surprisingly like Darkfall's world of Agon.
have you seen the Agon map?
I have seen Agon before. I was about to ask you why do you think like that and I do now. The locations of different climates are relatively close in both maps. I did not intend to make my world map like Agon. This is actually a pangaea map that is composed of 6 other small maps.
i think you already answered this in another thread, but
are you an artist of any kind?
Nope Corp I am not. I wish I was because I could put my imagination to work in a more practical way. I really enjoy cartography and this is the best map I could make with the program I used. Curious, why do you ask?
i like most of your (from the other thread) overly ambitious ideas 8) and that you are motivated to produce art of a sort (the map, which i like)......
it just got my pessimistic
(to this particular subject, since all of many, many potential leads over the years turned out to mean nothing)
wheels turning.... thinking...... wondering if there was any way i could leverage some kind of creative output from you.
Thanks corps! Glad someone likes it :P Since I am not an artist, I use my creativity in world maps, gameplay mechancs such as combat mechanics, class design, lore, and other attributes that makes a game world go round. What else do you have in mind that you'd like me to discuss?
i like most of your (from the other thread) overly ambitious ideas 8) and that you are motivated to produce art of a sort (the map, which i like)......
it just got my pessimistic
(to this particular subject, since all of many, many potential leads over the years turned out to mean nothing)
wheels turning.... thinking...... wondering if there was any way i could leverage some kind of creative output from you.
Thanks corps! Glad someone likes it :P Since I am not an artist, I use my creativity in world maps, gameplay mechancs such as combat mechanics, class design, lore, and other attributes that makes a game world go round. What else do you have in mind that you'd like me to discuss?
well.... its just a (probably selfish) dream of getting a motivated person (or more) interested in my ideas enough to work on some of the details of my project. i'm actually a good artist, but the coding itself takes too much time as it is. by itself. i don't feel like i have time to work on a website, or do all the icons, or produce demo videos (for the site, for kickstarter.com, or whatever else), and all the other thousands of details. when i need to be getting the basic game itself fully fleshed out. both coding wise, and at least with placeholder art. looks like you probably could do a much better job on art than you think, judging by your map. and i've always liked morphing/tweaking/touching-up art that other people have done, just as much, if not MORE than making it from scratch myself.
of course, you have your own ideas, and i'm incompatible with most peoples ways of gamedesign thinking, and not very flexible in the key aspects of MY ideas.
so, its unlikely we could have a mutually beneficial....situation. but, feel free to drop me a PM if you'd like to hear some of MY game design fantasies. 8) i don't like to mention them publicly, as i'd rather underpromise and overdeliver. i have at least one hook that is technically pretty simple that will be in the game early on, and add a a LOT of value and differentiation.
i like most of your (from the other thread) overly ambitious ideas 8) and that you are motivated to produce art of a sort (the map, which i like)......
it just got my pessimistic
(to this particular subject, since all of many, many potential leads over the years turned out to mean nothing)
wheels turning.... thinking...... wondering if there was any way i could leverage some kind of creative output from you.
Thanks corps! Glad someone likes it :P Since I am not an artist, I use my creativity in world maps, gameplay mechancs such as combat mechanics, class design, lore, and other attributes that makes a game world go round. What else do you have in mind that you'd like me to discuss?
well.... its just a (probably selfish) dream of getting a motivated person (or more) interested in my ideas enough to work on some of the details of my project. i'm actually a good artist, but the coding itself takes too much time as it is. by itself. i don't feel like i have time to work on a website, or do all the icons, or produce demo videos (for the site, for kickstarter.com, or whatever else), and all the other thousands of details. when i need to be getting the basic game itself fully fleshed out. both coding wise, and at least with placeholder art. looks like you probably could do a much better job on art than you think, judging by your map. and i've always liked morphing/tweaking/touching-up art that other people have done, just as much, if not MORE than making it from scratch myself.
of course, you have your own ideas, and i'm incompatible with most peoples ways of gamedesign thinking, and not very flexible in the key aspects of MY ideas.
so, its unlikely we could have a mutually beneficial....situation. but, feel free to drop me a PM if you'd like to hear some of MY game design fantasies. 8) i don't like to mention them publicly, as i'd rather underpromise and overdeliver. i have at least one hook that is technically pretty simple that will be in the game early on, and add a a LOT of value and differentiation.
I didn't draw anything on that map. The program I made thet map uses symbols where I just place them. Including textures. I didn't draw any of the symbols nor did I create the textures. I just used composition to place them where I thought they wanted to be. I don't have the hand skill, but I think I have the composition skill.
I am pretty open to criticism and feedback, but like you I am not flexible for my ideas to change just because they want to use "their" idea over mine. I have a certain game design philosophy that I use and it's consitent throughout the game design. And btw, pm inc.
A world, hands down. A game is what I play on my console.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I want to log into 'The World'. I don't mean world in your thread title but The World from dothack Sign.
That's the game that i want to be playing. It was a game that you, as the player, chose how to play it. You could go out and help the npcs with their quests, you could be a sort of police and go after player killers. You could search the world for those huge and dangerous boss monsters. You could dungeon dive for countless hours. Or you could just kill people just cause you can.
You chose what you wanted to do in that game, how you wanted to do it. I would have liked for such a game to have been more than a dream by now, heck back then when i watched the anime the timeline actually said The World went online in 2010 this being back in like 2002 i actually thought by the time we reached 2010 it'd be a reality...i was sorely disappointed
Originally posted by Sythion Surpised by the overwhelming answers for "World" here, considering how games are rated by this very community.
Anyway, for me: NEITHER. I will be happy with either: A world where I can do things that matter. A game where what I do actually matters.
Neither of these games/worlds exist yet, though GW2 is starting in the direction of the latter.
I'm curious, Sythion, what do you mean by "what I do matters?" How do you mean this? I've heard this statement many times and am just not clear on what it means.
Do you mean something like player made content? Be it housing, city building, something similar?
Do you mean when you finish a quest, the NPCs react to you differently?
Are you looking for something more heroic or world saving?
Or is it just the little things like bounties on PKers or exhaustible crafting materials?
Maybe some or all of these? I am just curious is all
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
LoL for me World .. I fell in love with the anime .hack//Sign .. I thought I found that world in EQ but nope after I hit level 45 as human Paladin .... all went to hell with the guild as most wanted the guild to be change to raid guild then there were loot problems and doing some zone too many times... I made a BeastLord I leveled it alone and then after a few new guildies came so I join them but all came to stand still over a raid where I had ask a few friends over to kill the npc for my claws that had just pop up in Permafrost and some had a fit over it that I was staling member from getting to the raid..It could have been avoided if I had just been helped cause it really was a quick fight but since my BL was treated as alt to some he had no rights... But I have not found a game like that yet.. hope I do.. yet current player base of any game sucks big time.. too much vulgarity, cursing, idiotic comments comparing to WoW.. any game you join there is harsh dissapointments cause the games are just waterdown there is no sense of adventure or exploration nor the prestige of earning your weapon and armor or growing along side your armor like in old eq days where your armor stats where all red cause of level restriction and had to level up to fully use it.. all current players want is gank fest bully system pvp.. but even true pvp games made for then die quickly cause overral they got no staying power or being loyal to a game.. and are ruining new pve game enviroments forcing dev to provide pvp and once bore jump off to the next new mmo that provides their adrenaline rush..
There are just too many games with bunch of bugs and they dont cater to any player base, right now is a salad mix the player base..
Surpised by the overwhelming answers for "World" here, considering how games are rated by this very community.
Anyway, for me: NEITHER.
I will be happy with either:
A world where I can do things that matter.
A game where what I do actually matters.
Neither of these games/worlds exist yet, though GW2 is starting in the direction of the latter.
I'm curious, Sythion, what do you mean by "what I do matters?" How do you mean this? I've heard this statement many times and am just not clear on what it means.
Do you mean something like player made content? Be it housing, city building, something similar?
Do you mean when you finish a quest, the NPCs react to you differently?
Are you looking for something more heroic or world saving?
Or is it just the little things like bounties on PKers or exhaustible crafting materials?
Maybe some or all of these? I am just curious is all
He means his actions and decisions are taken into cosideration of the outcome of the quest or event. I cant say much for GW2 NDA but this was started actually in SWTOR where your decisions or group decisions decided the out come of the event. Like in Esseles event you can abandon the ambassador or save her.. or you can save the engineering crew or blow them up to the space...it depends on the weight of the choices being made upto that point. is not just click and guess the answer right as older MMO's have done or where you just click and click till you get to the end of the dialogue to get the rewards... in SWTOR you got think before you answer specially if you quest in group for social pts which if you only solo you get none... which sucks... I came to this realization too late and I was well in my 20's and Esseless became just sour cause it was the only instance that gave you 100+ pts per run in social level
I'm curious, Sythion, what do you mean by "what I do matters?" How do you mean this? I've heard this statement many times and am just not clear on what it means.
Do you mean something like player made content? Be it housing, city building, something similar?
Do you mean when you finish a quest, the NPCs react to you differently?
Are you looking for something more heroic or world saving?
Or is it just the little things like bounties on PKers or exhaustible crafting materials?
Maybe some or all of these? I am just curious is all
In the case of themeparks(or games, as they are referred to here), I'm just watching an interactive movie. I have to pretend like I'm actually doing stuff, when obviously I'm not.
"Save us from the orcs.... by killing 15 of them" I kill 15, there's just as many as before around, but I've saved you from the orcs? Sorry, but no. My suspension of disbelief is not strong enough to make that work. Nothing is timed. Nothing matters. The game is going to be exactly the same no matter what I do, and it's goign to be nearly the same experience for everyone else who plays.
SW:ToR didn't really improve upon this, in my opinion. The stories were okay, but its pretty obvious they don't matter. One person gets saved or killed, same outcome with a different cinematic. I don't want the NPCs to react to me differently. I want the effects of my actions to be meaningful in the rest of my gameplay experience. I want entire swaths of content to be cut out of the game based on my decisions, and others to open up. And if your'e going to use smoke and mirrors, they better be made of damn thick materials.
I've mentioned GW2 helping to fix that with DE and branching personal stories, which I can't wait to see next weekend. Hope it makes that suspension of disbelief possible, because without it the only thing we have to engage players is gameplay mechanics, which are just too redundant to hold my attention for any amount of time.
In the case of sandboxes(or Worlds, as they are referred to here), I simply have nothing to do. All the mechanics seem to try and force community play and cooperation. The competition part comes into play when there are resources to fight over, but really I don't care to be part of a guild or organization. I'm left with nothing but a box of sand, making the name of the game type very fitting.
So I very much feel like I can't do anything that matters to the world, because the only ones that are able to have invested months developing social-political power, or are part of the organization that has.
Don't get me wrong, I love worlds and stories that are driven by politics (ASoIaF is one of my favorites), but much like real life actual intrigue is very rare, and being able to act upon it even rarer still.
Now, if a sandbox game were set up with systems in place to encourage intrigue and give the lone wolf more to do, then I would be all over that. But they won't, because they have a niche market they are trying to sell to, and it's everyone but me who is on these forums.
I think the answer has to be "both." I want a broad landscape where I can go where I want and do what I want, but I also want some direction. As much as I respected the people who spent their time in Morrowind gathering pillows to make pillow forts, "making my own fun" was never the thrill for me. More ofen than not, I liked discovering quests and following up on the stories that interested me at the time, with the option to get wildly sidetracked by any of a hundred different things that I stumbled across on the way.
The Elder Scrolls series, while not as ideally suited to an MMORPG as many think, still had a mix of elements that would fit ideally in the genre: a large, open world with numerous optional quests, various guilds and social groups, and dozens upon dozens of locations to explore. It was broad enough that you could make your own fun if you wanted to, but it offered enough direction that you never had to stand around wondering what the heck you were supposed to be doing.
When you go too far in the "open" direction, you get EVE. It's a great game, but it provides absolutely no direction whatsoever.
When you go too far in the other direction, you get WoW; it's also a great game, but it suffers from precisely the opposite problem.
I don't think it's too much to ask for something that has both freedom and direction. In fact, we shouldn't have to ask for that at all - it should have been the starting point all along.
Comments
@Eronakis
your map looks surprisingly like Darkfall's world of Agon.
have you seen the Agon map?
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
I voted no because a map does not make a game, and your actual poll question is 'would you play this based on map alone'. I would never play a game just based on a map, whether I liked the map or not... the other gameplay features have far more relevance on my overall enjoyment (combat, crafting, social, economy, instanced v non-instanced)
If the poll matched the topic thread, I would have voted world, and I like the gameplay elements you discuss (open world seamless etc).
Often lurking, rarely posting
The game mechanics that compliment this world map are geared towards mostly "themepark" elements in which I perfer. However, I do like some sandbox elements as well. The stuff you listed I want players to do exactly that. Travel was a major issue with me for this world map because of the themepark elements. I wanted to freely travel but within a certain restrictions. I didn't want those restrictions to be because of zone level.
So looking at the map and hearing what people describe it brings up thoughts of Asherons Call, Shadowbane and Darkfall... All very heavy PvP games. It just seems weird that there are so many people that want to play in this type of world/game yet Developers are going away from it. Why? Because they don't sell as well and don't hold their numbers as well as WoW type games.
Well I say that. I mean Asherons Call and Shadowbane are both old (gone) and darkfall while being several years old has full loot that turns a lot of people off for some reason. So by going off of what people say they want and what people actually pay for is a hard thing for Developers I'm guesssing. Would people(how many does it take these days for Dev's to keep the game servers going) actually pay for a huge open world that didn't cater to the raid happy, carrot chasing gamers like those playing WoW and WoW Clones? I mean that's all I hear about SWOTR is that the end game raiding/fake pvp is horrible and pointless. Well guess what the end game raiding/fake pvp in any game is pointless. Who care if one of them is more polished than another. It's just carrot chasing turned to diamond chasing.
Personally I hate WoW and the games that it has spawned. I haven't found any of them to hold my attention for more than a couple of months if that and it isn't ever because of end game.
I liked logging into a World and being able to decide what I wanted to do that day. Having the option to just start traveling from one point on the map to another without having to run up this path to get to this town to get on the bird/horse to fly me to another point on the map. However I also like PvP so those games mentioned were all fun to me and I would love to see a new Asherson's Call done right, not done as AC 2 was or a new Shadowbane. Darkfall to me is the closest thing we have out there.
@Eronakis
i think you already answered this in another thread, but
are you an artist of any kind?
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
I play games. Some of them happen to have fairly rich, expanisve worlds. The two, game and world, don't have to be mutually exclusive.
Perhaps, you are confusing world with job? I don't log into jobs.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
I have seen Agon before. I was about to ask you why do you think like that and I do now. The locations of different climates are relatively close in both maps. I did not intend to make my world map like Agon. This is actually a pangaea map that is composed of 6 other small maps.
Nope Corp I am not. I wish I was because I could put my imagination to work in a more practical way. I really enjoy cartography and this is the best map I could make with the program I used. Curious, why do you ask?
Same here. When will devs do it? When will they make this sort of thing?
My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.
i like most of your (from the other thread) overly ambitious ideas 8) and that you are motivated to produce art of a sort (the map, which i like)......
it just got my pessimistic
(to this particular subject, since all of many, many potential leads over the years turned out to mean nothing)
wheels turning.... thinking...... wondering if there was any way i could leverage some kind of creative output from you.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
As I said earlier I was trying to show off the map and have this discussion. I should of made a better question for the poll. But I wanted people to check out the map too :P. I wouldn't play a game based on the map alone either, but if I just saw a world map like is presented in this thread; it would greatly interest me to at least find more about the gameplay elements. Was attempting to spark imagination.
I share your dream.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I do as well, perhaps a lot of old school mmo players do and some new school
Thanks corps! Glad someone likes it :P Since I am not an artist, I use my creativity in world maps, gameplay mechancs such as combat mechanics, class design, lore, and other attributes that makes a game world go round. What else do you have in mind that you'd like me to discuss?
well.... its just a (probably selfish) dream of getting a motivated person (or more) interested in my ideas enough to work on some of the details of my project. i'm actually a good artist, but the coding itself takes too much time as it is. by itself. i don't feel like i have time to work on a website, or do all the icons, or produce demo videos (for the site, for kickstarter.com, or whatever else), and all the other thousands of details. when i need to be getting the basic game itself fully fleshed out. both coding wise, and at least with placeholder art. looks like you probably could do a much better job on art than you think, judging by your map. and i've always liked morphing/tweaking/touching-up art that other people have done, just as much, if not MORE than making it from scratch myself.
of course, you have your own ideas, and i'm incompatible with most peoples ways of gamedesign thinking, and not very flexible in the key aspects of MY ideas.
so, its unlikely we could have a mutually beneficial....situation. but, feel free to drop me a PM if you'd like to hear some of MY game design fantasies. 8) i don't like to mention them publicly, as i'd rather underpromise and overdeliver. i have at least one hook that is technically pretty simple that will be in the game early on, and add a a LOT of value and differentiation.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
I didn't draw anything on that map. The program I made thet map uses symbols where I just place them. Including textures. I didn't draw any of the symbols nor did I create the textures. I just used composition to place them where I thought they wanted to be. I don't have the hand skill, but I think I have the composition skill.
I am pretty open to criticism and feedback, but like you I am not flexible for my ideas to change just because they want to use "their" idea over mine. I have a certain game design philosophy that I use and it's consitent throughout the game design. And btw, pm inc.
A world
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
world.
the bigger the seamless the better.
A world, hands down. A game is what I play on my console.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I want to log into 'The World'. I don't mean world in your thread title but The World from dothack Sign.
That's the game that i want to be playing. It was a game that you, as the player, chose how to play it. You could go out and help the npcs with their quests, you could be a sort of police and go after player killers. You could search the world for those huge and dangerous boss monsters. You could dungeon dive for countless hours. Or you could just kill people just cause you can.
You chose what you wanted to do in that game, how you wanted to do it. I would have liked for such a game to have been more than a dream by now, heck back then when i watched the anime the timeline actually said The World went online in 2010 this being back in like 2002 i actually thought by the time we reached 2010 it'd be a reality...i was sorely disappointed
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Surpised by the overwhelming answers for "World" here, considering how games are rated by this very community.
Anyway, for me: NEITHER.
I will be happy with either:
A world where I can do things that matter.
A game where what I do actually matters.
Neither of these games/worlds exist yet, though GW2 is starting in the direction of the latter.
Do you mean something like player made content? Be it housing, city building, something similar?
Do you mean when you finish a quest, the NPCs react to you differently?
Are you looking for something more heroic or world saving?
Or is it just the little things like bounties on PKers or exhaustible crafting materials?
Maybe some or all of these? I am just curious is all
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
LoL for me World .. I fell in love with the anime .hack//Sign .. I thought I found that world in EQ but nope after I hit level 45 as human Paladin .... all went to hell with the guild as most wanted the guild to be change to raid guild then there were loot problems and doing some zone too many times... I made a BeastLord I leveled it alone and then after a few new guildies came so I join them but all came to stand still over a raid where I had ask a few friends over to kill the npc for my claws that had just pop up in Permafrost and some had a fit over it that I was staling member from getting to the raid..It could have been avoided if I had just been helped cause it really was a quick fight but since my BL was treated as alt to some he had no rights... But I have not found a game like that yet.. hope I do.. yet current player base of any game sucks big time.. too much vulgarity, cursing, idiotic comments comparing to WoW.. any game you join there is harsh dissapointments cause the games are just waterdown there is no sense of adventure or exploration nor the prestige of earning your weapon and armor or growing along side your armor like in old eq days where your armor stats where all red cause of level restriction and had to level up to fully use it.. all current players want is gank fest bully system pvp.. but even true pvp games made for then die quickly cause overral they got no staying power or being loyal to a game.. and are ruining new pve game enviroments forcing dev to provide pvp and once bore jump off to the next new mmo that provides their adrenaline rush..
There are just too many games with bunch of bugs and they dont cater to any player base, right now is a salad mix the player base..
In the case of themeparks(or games, as they are referred to here), I'm just watching an interactive movie. I have to pretend like I'm actually doing stuff, when obviously I'm not.
"Save us from the orcs.... by killing 15 of them" I kill 15, there's just as many as before around, but I've saved you from the orcs? Sorry, but no. My suspension of disbelief is not strong enough to make that work. Nothing is timed. Nothing matters. The game is going to be exactly the same no matter what I do, and it's goign to be nearly the same experience for everyone else who plays.
SW:ToR didn't really improve upon this, in my opinion. The stories were okay, but its pretty obvious they don't matter. One person gets saved or killed, same outcome with a different cinematic. I don't want the NPCs to react to me differently. I want the effects of my actions to be meaningful in the rest of my gameplay experience. I want entire swaths of content to be cut out of the game based on my decisions, and others to open up. And if your'e going to use smoke and mirrors, they better be made of damn thick materials.
I've mentioned GW2 helping to fix that with DE and branching personal stories, which I can't wait to see next weekend. Hope it makes that suspension of disbelief possible, because without it the only thing we have to engage players is gameplay mechanics, which are just too redundant to hold my attention for any amount of time.
In the case of sandboxes(or Worlds, as they are referred to here), I simply have nothing to do. All the mechanics seem to try and force community play and cooperation. The competition part comes into play when there are resources to fight over, but really I don't care to be part of a guild or organization. I'm left with nothing but a box of sand, making the name of the game type very fitting.
So I very much feel like I can't do anything that matters to the world, because the only ones that are able to have invested months developing social-political power, or are part of the organization that has.
Don't get me wrong, I love worlds and stories that are driven by politics (ASoIaF is one of my favorites), but much like real life actual intrigue is very rare, and being able to act upon it even rarer still.
Now, if a sandbox game were set up with systems in place to encourage intrigue and give the lone wolf more to do, then I would be all over that. But they won't, because they have a niche market they are trying to sell to, and it's everyone but me who is on these forums.
I think the answer has to be "both." I want a broad landscape where I can go where I want and do what I want, but I also want some direction. As much as I respected the people who spent their time in Morrowind gathering pillows to make pillow forts, "making my own fun" was never the thrill for me. More ofen than not, I liked discovering quests and following up on the stories that interested me at the time, with the option to get wildly sidetracked by any of a hundred different things that I stumbled across on the way.
The Elder Scrolls series, while not as ideally suited to an MMORPG as many think, still had a mix of elements that would fit ideally in the genre: a large, open world with numerous optional quests, various guilds and social groups, and dozens upon dozens of locations to explore. It was broad enough that you could make your own fun if you wanted to, but it offered enough direction that you never had to stand around wondering what the heck you were supposed to be doing.
When you go too far in the "open" direction, you get EVE. It's a great game, but it provides absolutely no direction whatsoever.
When you go too far in the other direction, you get WoW; it's also a great game, but it suffers from precisely the opposite problem.
I don't think it's too much to ask for something that has both freedom and direction. In fact, we shouldn't have to ask for that at all - it should have been the starting point all along.