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What's wrong with instant gratification?
fizzle32
Member Posts: 171
Why do people knock instant gratification?
Life is short, time is money.
If I'm sitting in a doctor's office, I want my service as soon as possible, sooner rather than later.
Yet alot of MMORPG companies *ahem SONY *ahem seem to think everybody's an unemployed college student. I think there is definitely a paradigm shift on the horizon for online gaming companies. They are gonna realize sooner or later that the formula "time spent = fun" or "time spent = challenge" are simply not valid.
See it's okay to spend alot of time in a game if there is literally so much CONTENT that you need massive gobs of time to go through it. That's quality gaming time.
But when these lame "Everquest" style games ARTIFICIALLY make sure that
1) You can't do anything without grouping
2) It takes forever to advance
3) Equipment drops are static and rare, leading to people spending 15+ hours camping a piece of armor
That's what I consider ARTIFICIAL timesinks. You're not spending that time perusing the game's CONTENT, you're STUCK at the SAME content either waiting for a group, killing 5 million frogloks, or killing the same monster over and over and over waiting for it to drop something you want.
It's companies like SOE/Verant that have singlehandedly turned a generation of gamers into people that will put up with infinite amounts of pain and suffering just to experience what they are hoodwinked into believing is a "mature role playing experience."
Comments
The stuff you mentioned are never welcome but I have to say I disagree with your post on the whole. First because I believe MMORPGs are not supposed to be about instant gratification and also because SOE is only about Instant Gratification now adays.
Sure MMORPGs should have some reward for every hour spent playing productively but the best thing about an MMORPG that if you put enough into it, the gratification will come from knowing you did so. Basically a MMORPG uses slow xp or 1 in 30 drop spawns like a single-player game might use a "Hard" or "Difficult" setting.
If you want instant gratification play more single-player games or try more MMORPGs geared toward such rather than trying to change the ones out there that have too much instant gratification.
Dbl
The point I'm tryin to make is that the game should keep you satisfied through CONTENT. If you stay longer in a game it should be to experience more CONTENT, not because they artificially slowed the game down to make you play for 5 years.
Bottom line, I expect more content, and none of the major MMORPG companies are dishing it out.
I don't want to sit there killing the same monster 5000 times, thats not content.
If I spend 5 hours killing a dragon, I don't want to be there again next week killing the same dragon.
I think WoW has gone a long way to solving this problem by integrating pvp with the game. Eventually they are going to put boss level mobs in ENEMY territory, so you don't just go there to fight X dragon, but the tactical situation changes. While fighting the dragon, the enemy can attack you.
No matter what gaming companies do, you can't replicate human intelligence, nor can you make enough content for people to BURN through. They will always go through content faster than you can make it.
The way to solve the problem of not enough content is for PVP to be the majority of the content, so that not only are you grinding on NPC's but there is a human element to it, so that the "content" is as diverse as the people who play the game.
I honestly believe that PVP is the future of gaming.
[quote]Originally posted by fizzle32
[b]
Yes, so do I.
But the RP zealots and and Hardcore PvP'ers are never gonna share common ground. At least Guild Wars has somewhat successfully alleviated this criteria.
Basically, MMORPG's will always have timesinks; thats why I'm currently having more fun playing BF2
Unnecessary timesinks are never welcome in a mmorpg, but like a previous poster I pretty much disagree with you entirely.
If i want instant gratification thats what mastrabation is for.
Yes, so do I.
But the RP zealots and and Hardcore PvP'ers are never gonna share common ground. At least Guild Wars has somewhat successfully alleviated this criteria.
Basically, MMORPG's will always have timesinks; thats why I'm currently having more fun playing BF2
Where do you get that RPers don't PvP theres tons of RPers who love to PvP. Infact most of the RPers I've meet have no problem with PvP and will quite often do it them selves but then again maby I'm some how runing into a minority of RPers most of the time.
Instant gratification isn't bad, but the kind of game it goes hand-in-hand with usually is...
When I pick up a new MMORPG, I like to know that I'll be there for at least a few months, or what's the point?!...
Instant gratification usually means max level within a month, and then I'm off to another game...
Then again, it is kind of sad to sit around for days hunting the same thing over and over just for a particular drop, or level up...
There really hasn't been a win/win in this situation... It always seems a game is either considered a grind-fest, or a "max out as many char's as you can before you get bored" type of game...
What we need is a game with a very high max level, but fast levelling... I mean like max level is obscenely high, but you can always get at least a level or 2 in a day... Or maybe no level's at all, since they seem to be the cause of the "grind" It also needs a high drop rate, yet thousands of items each more powerful then the last so you never really "max out", but just get better and better... Then you can constantly feel "gratified", yet not just max out within a month and get bored...
But anyways, to get right to answering the question, the problem is low replay value... max out a few char's, get some "phat lewt", then get bored... I would much rather play a grind fest MMORPG over some max-out-in-a-week, ADD-kiddie MMORPG... At least I know I won't have to go game hopping for a few months...
At least when you really get hardcore in a grind game, you feel a sense of pride... you can look at all the lower level chars and realise that you earned what you got, and only the small minority can even touch you... that's some long-term gratification... Short term games on the other hand... you max out, feel good for a few minutes, then realise that practically 99% of the server has done the exact same thing you've done, and nothing can kill that sense of self-gratification any quicker...
Anyways, not exactly sure what I just typed as I types it obscenely fast (getting ready for work), so if it doesnt make much sense, that's why...
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There's nothing wrong with instant gratification. There is, however, a dispute over what constitutes "gratification". For you, gratification is gaining levels and loot. For me, gratification is playing through a quest or instance that has truely compelling gameplay. In case you're wondering, I've not met a MMORPG that had compelling gameplay. You always play for the rewards in MMORPGs, never for the sheer joy of playing.
Earlier you brought up the point that players will burn through content faster than any developer can put it out. This is exactly what I'm talking about. MMOG developers spend so much time focused on content that they lose sight of the core gameplay. Let's be honest here, all you really need is a really good combat system and a random dungeon generator; BOOM instant content!! The play is the thing and killing to loot and level ad naseum isn't good gameplay. It's a strange Pavlovian torture.
PvP is one way out of this rut. It's also the easiest. The other way would involve figuring out how to reward the player for more than just mindlessly slaughtering mob after mob. That might actually involve giving the player something to do other than mindlessly slaughter mob after mob. I mean, come ON!!! WHAT FREAKIN' ELSE IS THERE TO DO OTHER THAN KILL STUFF!!!!! <stressfull huffing>
To be honest, I think that just changing the way XP is handed out would do wonders. Only award XP at the completion of a quest. Make the amount of XP awarded be based on some kind of "style" system (bloodless victory, stealthy, flawless victory, etc.). You could then get rid of those ridiculous herds of infinitly respawning mobs that clutter the path to the quest area. Once you're only killing mobs in your quest, you can get those frequent drops and the equipment could be tailor made to your characters level/class/race/alignment. That would require instancing and that's a controversy for another thread.
why do you call games "everquest" clones i think everquest is a great game.
I honestly believe that PVP is the future of gaming.
Out comes the E-penis! PvP is good for some people, usually the same people who buy E-bay plat and Characters and can't be bothered to sink more than 10 minutes into the game. As you stated in your original post, you basically want a game where you can do everything in a day or two and then run around waving your E-penis and killing other virtual players to boost your ego.
This may sound very rude, but I am not trying to be. I wholly object to people trying to ruin MMOs with this rationale that PvP is the only way to go. It most certainly is NOT. There are plenty of PvP games out there and as you mentioned there are games like WoW. WoW is a watered down MMO. It is, as someone put it very aptly in another thread "an mmo with training wheels". I'm all for these games if it keeps the PvP/E-Bay crowd away from the ones I play!
JM2C
S
Something given has no value.
If you start with everything what left is there to earn?
Because everquest was the first big 3d mmorpg.
Hence most of the ideas stem from it.
I honestly believe that PVP is the future of gaming.
Out comes the E-penis! PvP is good for some people, usually the same people who buy E-bay plat and Characters and can't be bothered to sink more than 10 minutes into the game. As you stated in your original post, you basically want a game where you can do everything in a day or two and then run around waving your E-penis and killing other virtual players to boost your ego.
This may sound very rude, but I am not trying to be. I wholly object to people trying to ruin MMOs with this rationale that PvP is the only way to go. It most certainly is NOT. There are plenty of PvP games out there and as you mentioned there are games like WoW. WoW is a watered down MMO. It is, as someone put it very aptly in another thread "an mmo with training wheels". I'm all for these games if it keeps the PvP/E-Bay crowd away from the ones I play!
JM2C
S
PvP as opposed to what?
Why do you care what anyone else thinks?
you want instant gratification from a video game? Play a FPS or pretty much any console game. As far as MMOs go, if there is nothing to look forward to, what's the point of playing if everything is just handed to you at lower lvls.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
If you are a roleplayer playing an appropriate game that encourages roleplaying you should never get bored as long as you are in a good community. If your wanting a game thats has hardcore pvp go to DAoC. You can do realm vrs realm at all levels. Ive played many mmo's and have learned one thing, unless youve played every single mmo out there you cant say a certain game does not exist. For me SWG takes care of my needs. If you want to level up to max level it takes you a month maybe but then you can redo your template anytime you want. You also have player runned cities in the game so roleplaying is easy and you can actually never grind and just roleplay in the city if you want. This just shows there is a game where someone can enjoy the gameplay. For those that want a very long grind you can attempt at becoming a jedi. that takes many people between 1-2 yrs just to accomplish. For those that want pvp they have that too. This game has loads of missions and quests to do also. Ive known people in this game thats played for a couple years and still hasnt done everything. All im saying is try more games out before passing judgement on all mmo's. Also if your not willing to roleplay and play with a community then expect to get bored fast but thats natural for people without friends on a game to do. My suggestion is find a game and genre you enjoy around your maturity level and get to know your community. Make some friends. Dont concentrate on leveling or being the best. Just try to have fun with your friends and everything will come together in the end. And you will enjoy all aspects of the game. If you are the loner type then be prepared to be bored of every game out there sooner or later, within a year more than likely.
Originally posted by Lowdos
This is just my spin on things. Perhaps I should have included 'IMO' somehwere amongst there.
Mileage will vary
Its not just Sony. Its all MMORPGs. There has not been one out yet that doesn't trade fun for frustration and try to hype the pretty pixels beyond all else so that players will work hard to get nothing.
No offense bud, but that says it all!
S
sole is a realy old mmorpg vet been playing and beta testing most mmorpgs out there even those who didnt see the light after alpha beta.
The recent years I been gaming Dark Ages of Camelot from 2000 - 2005, EvE Online, Earth and beyond, Neocron and some more.
no instant gratification there.
The grinding in daoc nearly killed me
But now days I consider leaving everything as all mmorpg seem too think I got toons of time too sit infornt of a screen in "boring instances in wow" like MC like blizzard made it soo your stuck doing them for hours.
"You know I realy need too spend that time working too pay bills instead.
I now need too have a relaxing game I get instant gratification
ex in daoc :I cant sit press a button 12 months too get a crafter maxed out soo I can start playing.
Free 14Days EVE-Online "Trials & Guides" EVE-O Skills Sheet
I would rather earn something then have it given to me because I want it. Instant gratification is bad. Some people actualy enjoy things being difficult.
Games that satisfy instant gratification move us away from reality. Real life is not easy. And if your life is easy then you're probably not really living.
That's all I have to say on the issue.
As far as game content goes you will never have a world so diverse that the content is limitless, unless there is a way to have the game create its own content, but right now thats not possible. It would take far to much manpower to create such a place. The best you can live with are constant updates and expansions to the game.
If you want constant PVP try a first person shooter. There are plenty of pvp only online games out there, but if you want a pvp mmorpg. You have to accept the fact that you have to include a rp element to it. Most of hte people who first played mmorpg had more interst in the RP of it rather then the PVP. If you want to just run up to someone and kill them becuase you can then perhaps you should play first person shooter games. I agree that PVP is necessary but how its done is too far away from the original intent of most games.
Out comes the E-penis! PvP is good for some people, usually the same people who buy E-bay plat and Characters and can't be bothered to sink more than 10 minutes into the game. As you stated in your original post, you basically want a game where you can do everything in a day or two and then run around waving your E-penis and killing other virtual players to boost your ego.
This may sound very rude, but I am not trying to be. I wholly object to people trying to ruin MMOs with this rationale that PvP is the only way to go. It most certainly is NOT. There are plenty of PvP games out there and as you mentioned there are games like WoW. WoW is a watered down MMO. It is, as someone put it very aptly in another thread "an mmo with training wheels". I'm all for these games if it keeps the PvP/E-Bay crowd away from the ones I play!
JM2C
S
This has got to be the single dumbest post i have ever witnessed on this forum. I swear to god I have seen misinformed but this just takes the cake. Are you seriously that stupid? or are you just trying to get a rise out of people by posting an opinion that tries to associate two groups that are generally polar opposites of each other? Hate to break it to you, but as a rule of thumb the PVP crowd is not the one usually associated with buying virtual goods. Of course the fact that you consider WoW a good pvp game pretty much should tell me that you know nothing about PVP gaming so I will just leave this post as it is.