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Does No Quests mean Less Atmosphere?
BigAndShiny
Member Posts: 176
I absolutely love the way ncsoft designed the cities and towns of GW2, with all their side characters and background conversations - it's really great. However, an issue that I find with the game is that none of them give me quests. maybe I could help them find their frieds, family or deal with their problems (not just hoping to stumble upon some related event in a different zone). The best part about games like Mass Effect or Dragon Age was just stumbling upon stories and quests.
I just find myself not wanting to explore anymore because I know I probably wont find any cool characters, stories or quests. Much like if the game had a huge, well designed city that had no vendors, minigames, events or quests in it, there's nothing to look forward to (apart from the view itself, which while nice isn't everything in a game).
Overall I think that by excising quests completely NC may have jumped the gun and gone overboard, because while in the open world, DEs make sense, in cities, there could be so many more stories to tell.
Comments
I don't see how it can mean less atmosphere, if anything it's more atmosphere as you are actually immersed in what you are doing and doing with others, not just reading a quest log.
First of all it's ArenaNet who are the developers of the game, not NC/Soft.
Now I'm guessing you didn't find the Personal Story because that's where the features (maybe not all of them) you want from are questing experience are located. However some may consider GW2's Personal Story questing to be the most constricting part of the game.
Well I find that GW2 is the most rewarding MMORPG for the explorers, inside the cities and outside the cities. It simply offers what quest-based MMORPGs seem to lack... a World to explore rather than a to-do list to complete.
In the recent stress test, I decided to see what would happen if I just started in an area and walked east. I encountered all sorts of DEs and the atmosphere was great. By just listening to NPCs talk about the event that was happening and observing the world around me, I felt very immersed in the atmosphere. I participated in events that had me escorting a charr warband into a volcano, and another than had me blowing up tree stumps.
It felt a lot more real than having the same guy tell a hundred different people to go kill the same group of boars all day long. Yes, the events repeat, but they branch off into other events and make me feel like I'm a part of that world. If this world were more like any of the fantasy ones we enjoy, I'd help out the citizens by listening to their problems.
If you take the time to listen to what the NPCs are conversing about, you'll get a great deal of atmosphere.
First, it's Arenanet making the game. They are bankrolled by NCSoft, but NCSoft is doing zero development work with the game.
There are tons of interesting and hidden vendors, stories, and what are essentially quests, but happen in real-time for everyone in the form of events. There are things tucked away in every corner, and all over the overworld that aren't hidden, as well. This means much more atmosphere, and an environment that feels much, much more like a real world, because things are happening all the time, and the bad guys can win if you don't help, or the traveling troupe just won't go anywhere because they are afraid to, etc.
Quests are not gone, really. They have just been replaced with events. Instead of going up to farmer Bob and him telling you to kill the guys that are stealing his pigs, or whatever, some badits actually show up and start stealing his pigs, and you have to physically stop them, and anyone else who comes along sees the same thing. It isn't like there are some pigs in a field, and in the next field over there are some bandits, standing still or pathing aimlessly, waiting to be killed. One minute, there are no bandits at all, and the next there are actually up in the pigs causing havoc.
The only thing I can really say is that you need to actually play the game to understand. A lot of people seem to have this misconception, and it doesn't seem like explanations or videos help. But if you play the game, there will be no mistaking what is happening, and how it feels like a world in a way no MMO has ever before achieved. There are plenty of stories, and plenty of things to stumble on where you help random NPCs. And if you talk to NPCs, they will tell you things about their lives, their families, and, if applicable, something you can do to help, they just won't give you a quest.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Had this same feeling. Usually when questing in an MMORPG I just go on auto-pilot... Go to quest-hub. Pick up half a dozen quests. Complete quest. Profit. The world simply didn't matter, whereas with GW2 I actually found myself paying attention to the world, at times, because doing sometimes rewarded me. I'd find myself listening to NPCs converse after completing an Event, just in case it might lead to another one. Much better than being told about some NPC's plight.
I find that the dynamic events breathe life into the environment and brings with it an atmosphere of a world going on with its' business regardless of the players immediate and pressing need to hit the toilet.
The DEs further help setting the atmosphere in an explorative light i feel, as they seem to flow smoothly through-out the zones and encourage you to roam the land. I've come across several unexpected and hidden entrances leading you to jumping puzzles or small events not present on the map, while exploring the zones.
But to be honest, i haven’t spent much time in the cities and city-wide DEs tying in with some of the npc-chatter would be cool indeed but that might be in-game already - i dunno
* Waves at Pushkina *
The city's are not only to show off, it is there the personal story takes place, also I heard that there are small events going on, and it's a great place for roleplayers
!
Yeah. what I'm saying is that for EXP questing, Dynamic Events are much better than quests. But you remember in many RPGs you might be walking through a town, and you'll stumble across 2 people having an argument, or police chief conducting an investigation, or an undercover agent infiltrating a street gang, and you might get a quest or just some cool information/lore from them.
By keeping cutscenes or story to personal instances and background conversation, they are missing out on all the awesome random conversations or events that you could come across just by walking through a town. Maybe you walk through Lions Arch and some bandits attack you because an enemy from your story has put a bounty on your head or something. That would be exciting.
Finally, Arenanet is OWNED by NCsoft, therefore the game is developed by NCsoft. Just like we say Madden is developed by EA instead of EA Tiburon or Red Dead Redemption was made by Rockstar instead of Rockstar Studios San Diego, I will continue to say GW2 is made by NCsoft, because it is. The name of a studio doesn't make a difference as to who is funding the game, paying for the studio, and directly employing the staff.
You say you know the world is not full of cool chars etc, but you are incorrect, the whole point of GW2 is that the world is stuffed full of chars with quests and stories and adventures and mini quests and secret areas etc (you just listen to people and explore the world instead of looking for ! over peoples heads in hubs) Having a world that is empty and dull but with a huge network of quest hubs is dead in the water and is certainly not going to encourage you to explore.
The cities are wonderful because they are not quest hubs, they have a little bit of life of their own. Need to let go of old habits and just wander out there and explore
I recommend using your map as little as possible, makes it even better imo.
Think of it this way:
Old style - quests hubs throughout the world and main questlines that take you through the story/world and quest hubs. Cities are quest/vendor/travel hubs.
GW2. No Quest hubs, no marks over head, quests are spread far and wide and you explore listen to find chains of quests. The main questline (personal story etc) is still there - they guild you towards interesting places, not quest hubs. Cities are Travel and Vendor hubs.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Sorry, but that's not how it works. Anet is their own studio, but yes, a large chunk of their profit goes to NCSoft. NCSoft is the publisher. They are 2 very different things.
Developer = makes the creative decisions, physically makes the game, and to a large extent decides what goes in the game.
Publisher = makes sure the game has proper funding (gets paid), and in many cases helps market the game / destribute it to the market.
In this particular case, NCSoft has been extremely hands-off w/ GW2, which many people have even commented on. It's not common to see this happen in the gaming industry, but so far it appears to be the case. NCsoft has more or less given Anet free-reign over GW2, and doesn't seem to be putting up much if any roadblocks / strict deadlines on the game.
To compare this arrangement to anything EA does is not only misleading, but it's also fairly insulting. EA has been voted the worste company in america, and it's not just because of ME3. EA is easily the worst example of a publisher by a landslide. Comparing them in any fashion to the arrangement between Anet & NCSoft is like comparing night to day. It's like comparing how george lucas makes films to how christopher nolan does. Just stop.
Well, for starters questing isn't 'gone' in GW2. It's just integrated in a very different way. Not every quest will give you a checklist to complete, like you get in most games. There are 'heart' events, which are kind of like repeatable quests. You also have your personal story quests, which are like the main storyline quests you'd see in a game like dragon age. As for the bulk of the PvE game, the 'quests' manifest in dynamic events. While they aren't a checklist, they are there, and I'd argue that the way they are integrated makes them feel much more like part of the environment than the checklist method.
Basically, you need to pay attention to what's going on more than in other games. For example you might overhear something an NPC says, or an NPC may hint to you that they need something. It's up to you to figure out what to do with that information, or whether or not that information is something useful or not. In some cases it will lead you to a hidden event in the world, or hidden treasure. This is only one of the ways in which people get hinted about some of the jumping puzzles this game has, by hearing a rumor about a certain area from one of the random NPCs in town.
These quests, or activities (whatever you want to call them), are just more hidden than in nearly any other RPG. You aren't guided along a series of paths, you have to find them for yourself. Personally I think that makes a lot more sense, and makes it feel more like an actual world.
I haven't taken the time to talk to random NPCs in the cities myself, but I seem to recall that someone had posted about a DE being kicked off after talking to an NPC in the Charr city, so it's possible. (It could have been in the Home Instance, but that would still be cool). Following the Human Personal Story, I had a number of events that took place in the city, though it's instanced, like all your Personal Story content.
There are a ton of minigames and some of them are in the cities. Minigames, or "activities", were not active during the BWE or Stress test. I don't know if they will show some off in future beta events, or if they will save them all for launch.
I will say, though, that I was hoping for a number of DEs in the cities. The cities are certainly large enough to host at least one or two in each district. As long as they only ran occassionally, I don't think they would disrupt things too much. I think that's also something they could save for launch.
The cities do feel alive though. There are a number of NPCs that have conversations and go about a routine. Some of the conversations seemed like a hook for an event, which really has me wondering if they already have some city events that just are not in the BWEs (yet).
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Pretty cool idea. Still not lacking in the atmosphere department they could always add to it.
ANET developed GW 2 by the way.
Also DE's and what not can be found out by NPC conversations, and your idea would only add to the life and atmosphere that GW 2 has.
W/o your idea in that highlighted part there is still atmosphere and life.
It's on par with Skyrim(NPCs with life cycles, reactions toward you, conversations that may give you details about DE's), and etc, except the idea you have, which I believe is in Skyrim, though you got an MMO, when having an MMO it's different, I believe it's possible but that's better off a single player version which I bet that can happen in home instances.
You should think of the pros and cons of your idea as well, cons could outwigh if you mean it should be in open world.
Random open world invasions would be nice indeed, invovling the community and what not. I think those happen but not in the cities.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Actually seeing wolves coming, starting to kill chicken and you having to save them (or not...) beats Farmer joe with an exclamation mark over his head telling you to preemtively go kill some wolves who stand motionless in the forest because they may attack his chicken.
The way GW2 presents content means more atmosphere, more immersion.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Hearts are neither events nor repeatable. They are small tasks like feedings cows, watering crops and killing generic enemies. Once you complete them, you unlock a Karma vendor. They are designed as a way to guide players through the content, and to keep players busy until a Dynamic Event shows up.
"I'll lead, you follow."
"Hearts" are actually repeatable, Elifia. For the rest of your post, I agree
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
So, during the stress test, I decided to try out a new class. And with the very limited time I had to play. So, this time around, when I got in the world, I decided to head for the utility point gaining areas first, and completely ignored my storyline arc series as well as the hearts of the map. I was completely immersed in it as I was helping my fellows destroy ratman. I then stumbled upon centaur's area and found an item laying on the ground. I picked it up and the next thing I know, we are following this NPC towards a major centaur invasions. Realize that the mobs were like several levels bigger then me, when Id get hit, it was for like 1/3 of my health. The reason it was great was because I felt a community wanting to help each other again and found myself fighting along side a ranger, then I fought along side a mesmer. I felt truly free
Most venues of this type of MMO, you dont feel free, but I surely was feeling free in Tyria during the stress test. It a game for people who want choices. A game for people that dont want wires attached or rails. But yet, in minor ways, they still have the reverse as well. Arena Net wanted to bring the community back together again, rather then a community full of greedy soloers. I would have to say, thus far, I believe that their design can do that. Even in SWTOR, which I love for its story, you are stuck on rails all the time, and frankly, you get a since from the story, although mildly different, that once you play 1 character all the way through, youve played them all.
Is Guild Wars 2 perfect, absolutely not, by no means is it perfect. Its not even close to perfect. But, I can say this, it offers a platform certainly they can build from, including adding those quests that the OP is complaining about sometime in the future if thats what they feel could be needed. But for me, so far, things look pretty good and I cant wait to play it some more.
And don't forget the 30+ mini-games! I want to shoot an arrow off of an npc's head using an apple.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
"I'll lead, you follow."
The heart remains "done" but I think the content itself resets after a while. For instance, you can do the raven shrine heart, then come back later and do it again (if you wish to, of course).
Maybe I'm confusing two different things too, but I know I went back to a couple of heart spots and was able to do them again.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
You missed his point though: if the developer is owned by the publisher, we usually refer to the publisher name. Like his example with Red Dead Redemption, which was developed by "Rockstar San Diego" and published by "Rockstar Games"; see http://ps3.ign.com/articles/109/1090380p1.html.
As for how much different specific publishers affect their developers: that's hard to know and one would have to read interviews with those involved. Links to such where they discuss the matter, would be appriciated.
The heart remains "done" but I think the content itself resets after a while. For instance, you can do the raven shrine heart, then come back later and do it again (if you wish to, of course).
Maybe I'm confusing two different things too, but I know I went back to a couple of heart spots and was able to do them again.
Honestly, I think you were confusing DEs with Hearts. What exactly were you doing at the Raven Shrine? Did you get an empty Heart bar that filled up by collecting eggs and killings skelks, or did you get to talk to the statues to answer riddles? Because the riddles thing was a DE.
Also note that the 'content' for a Heart cannot reset, because the 'content' of a heart is small tasks like killing the generic mobs in the area, and those mobs won't disappear once the heart is completed. You can still kill mobs, feed cows, water crops, etc, but you won't get anything from it.
"I'll lead, you follow."
I'll check again during the next beta event - and until then I trust your word on it
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
It's still wrong, Rockstar San Diego still has the Rockstar Brand name and thus the overal name applies.
Anet is more like a daughter company. Those always carry its own name.
So we say Anet when talking about GW2 and not NCSoft. If the company was name NCSoft Arenanet the point would be relevant.