Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Can SWTOR be saved?
klash2def
Member EpicPosts: 1,949
Since everyone is calling the death of TOR by year end.. im curious to what people think can be done to SAVE the game.. i do not wish to see more people be out of a job so lets hope the powers that be see this and take our advice.. just like in the beta only this time maybe they may actually consider it..
i came across this excerpt below last night.. i couldnt agree more.
"Suggestions: go free to play & do not include any pay to win items on cash shop, get rid of all side quests that uses instances & make it a public quest instead since most class will be doing the same quests anyways, keep the class quests the way it is since that's one of the better aspect of this game, optimize the game that's if it's even possible with Hero's engine at all, transfer players and get rid of 2/3 of the servers & add more only if the player base starting to grow after going free to play, this one is a major for PvPers - lower the amount of CC abilities, create an inviting open PvP environment, add a lot of worth while end game contents, take away heavy grinding at end game to get PvP gears, the list can go on and on but I'll stop right here."
-Massively Forums
IMHO SWTOR should go B2p OR F2p with min/cosmetic cashshop, fix the PVP, merge servers, do MORE for the space combat/travel (no rails in space) and take away some of the VO on side quest (annoying so gamers spacebar spam it)
I myself am i huge fan of the ip so i was really dissapointed to hear that the game isnt working out as intended.. as many others believe there is great potential in this game. Some may argue that its too early to call its death, but the reality is we live in a different consumer age than lets say even 5-6 years ago.. today's mmo gamer are much harder to satisfy and its WAY more competition than the early era when mmos were still very niche.. think about it.. in 2004 you wouldnt see a tv ad for a MMO.. thats changed. SWTOR can clim out of this if they really want to..but that means EA and BW would have to admit they messed up and make some MAJOR changes.. if not then yea i agree with everyone else..rip to another game with great potential.
if they want to survive the fiscal year.. they would take heed to the consumer base of TODAY.. not 10 years ago.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Comments
1. Get the servers merged yesterday
That alone will keep the game over 500k subs
2. Focus on RP/immersion elements
Star wars fans tend to like the immersion aspect
3. Alien races
4. Add an additional character slot for every 2 level 50s on a server
Should be easy with the legacy and people seem to want more character slots because of it
5. Story driven content
Cutscenes and voice acting are too costly to put it at this stage, but dont gve up on the story aspect and you can still keep the feel of the cutscenes by panning the camera around and similar tricks
6. A planet full of danger to explore
Thnk of it as a full planet, massive dungeon. Like the adventure planets of SWG but with rare spawns and random events youll find by exploring
First, the most imporant issue is game play. Long before the servers became ghost towns, people were dropping this game at a huge rate for reasons other than population. So, beyond the obvious need of a huge server consolidation, I think many of these would help.
Fixing game play -- studio related:
Fire James Ohlen and Dennis Erickson, appologize to the fans for the substandard product and their unprofessional trolling of and lying to the fanbase while trying to hide their problems, and hire somone from outside BioWare who has a steller reputation in MMO development. I have no faith or confidence they can do anything but make it worse and as long as they're involved, I wouldn't go back unless you could afford to pay me obscene amounts of money. By improving the moral of the player base they could possibly keep more people.
Go the FFXIV route. If you bought it, it's F2P until they get it fixed and re-released. No micro transactions. No bs f2p games, just man-up and do the right thing for your player base.
Fixing game play - direct game play:
Add open world features. I don't mean some pure 'sandbox' open world. Just make it more expansive and epic. There are lots of games that are 'story driven' and still manage to have large, open worlds. Ride your horse (without fast travel) from North West Forachel to Iisengard, or Dol Guldur or Angmar.... It will take you an hour or more to reach any of those places without fast travel. And from any of them, another hour or so to get to another. You make the whole circuit, it can take an entire gaming session. it's amazingly huge. The SWTOR planets need that openess.
Interactive world. I'm not a hard-core roleplayer. But the absolute lack of being able to interact with the world was a killer. It was so fixed, dull and sterile. Not even night-and-day cycles. That was pathetic and, in my book, a fireable offense.
Trash the VA for the single-area world quests. It is tedious, routinely skipped, and ludicrous waste of resources for 'kill ten rats quests' and dimishes the main story. Keep the long world-quest and the main quest.
Add more non-combat quests. Puzzle quests would be a good start. Other MMOs have them. SWTOR could too... Not every quest needs to end in a meglomanical boss-rant followed by contrived combat.
And speaking of contrived combat. Allow players to play it like they want. Hey, I'm a gunslinger That's a bad guy. I will shoot first, talk later (to my sidekick) because I don't care what the boss has to say, I'm a cold, stone killer (with that character).
Consequenes and false-faction-associations. OKay, I'm Mr. Superdarkside Jedi. They should be TRYING TO KILL ME, not acting buddy-buddy with me... ANd why can't I flee to the Empire? Join an Empire guild? Why does my bounty hunter have to be Empire? Why does my smuggler need to be Republic?
Get rid of the Kabuki clothes. Seriously, this is Star Wars and while I know where Lucas stole Star Wars, The Fortress wasn't a Kabuki theatre presentation. And it's not even good Kabuki. It's just ugly, uglier and ugliest. Frankly, Kabuki would be a step up. .
Sith Warrior or Kabuki Dancer? You decide... And did I mention it's just frackin ugly beyond belief. And add an appearence tag. Don't give me the pvp bs. Guys with lightsabers are sith/jedi. The ones without, aren't. And there are so many other visual clues, you just don't need to force people into stereotypes.
Monsters & combat. Find a development team that can write patrols, variable attack AI and other sorts of improvements so the monsters don't stand around in little clusters for no reason until you come up to kill them. And, when they fight, they fight intelligently instead of stupidly. Combat was no challenge at all in this game.
Fix crafting. Complete gut and over-haul. It's currently worthless. And make it so crafting is both viable and important.
Housing. Needed. Not everyone wants. But lots love it.
Player shops. I hate auction houses. They reduce socialization. Shops, market areas, etc., are much cooler and help foster emergent game play in many respects.
Fix the gulds. THey're close to worthless becaues they're pretty much pointless beyond being a friends list.
Nothing can save SWTOR at this point. It's fate is sealed. GW2 will put the final nail in it's coffin.
Not just GW2, but many other MMO's and even some single player games that are coming out.
Nothing can save this game. It would be best if they went f2p, or shut it down, then a possible relaunch, but they might as well just save costs and shut it down.
They say they are profitable. Maybe they made their money back on box sales and subs for a couple months after release. Now they laid off a bunch of people from initial development and whatever they get now is just icing. I haven't seen their financials, so I don't know.
The funny thing is its still the number 2 MMO in the west by a rather wide margin.
Kingdoms of Amular was stated as being "a failure" here as only sold 1.2 million, and needed 3 million to break even.
SWTOR has sold just about 2.32 million to date worldwide and I doubt that Kingdoms of Amular cost as much as SWTOR to develop, and is not a MMO so has no extra running costs, so I doubt they have broke even yet with what that have sold, and the declining subs.
Even if SWTOR was halfway decent it should not have dropped this much so soon.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
They said they needed 500k subs to be profitable, and they still have the 500k subs. For now. If the merges come fast enough theyll probably keep 500k post-GW2, but I doubt much more than that.
They anticiapted a 10 year life for SWTOR, not 6 months! It depends on how long they need the 500k subs for. I doubt they will have that by the end of year.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
No, terrible game that failed from a base level, also i have no respect for the people who run it. While i was playing i tried to help the game by posting problems people where having and trying to give them ideas on how to fix it, but sadly along with everyone else who tried to help my post and threads where deleted. MY reward was a banning warning even tho i did not post anything in a negative way; try to help them and they tried to screw me.
With that in mind i will NEVER EVER EVER trust this sites reviews ever again what you guys did was disgusting; selling your credibility for quick cash is never a smart move.
The promised us 10 years worth of content with hundreds of planets during beta. They gave us 3 months worth of content at best. I doubt they even have 600k subs left at this point. With everybody screaming about low server populations. If gw2 comes out before the server merges happen swtor is dead in the water, they are dying slowly every day right now as it is.
That's a good reminder of how far the official hype from bioware was versus reality.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
At this stage, with a lot of the staff laid off, is there any chance of saving it anyway?
I'm more a single player person, even in an MMORPG. I did buy SW:TOR. After the initial month I didn't pay again. I found it to be much too linear. I couldn't go off for and gather stuff to make other things for a couple of game hours. All I could do was follow the story. The outcome of the story didn't change if I chose a different answer.
Voice acting is all well and good, but if something is missing in the game, then it's normally missing for a long time if it's fixed ever. The graphics were nice but every one looked the same just a bit more wrinkly. The fact that there's been layoffs at this stage says it all.
No. Its just a bad game with leaders that have no clue.
The bloated and top-heavy corporations that have taken over the industry and forsaken fun and interesting gameplay in favor of unimaginative clones with unnecessarily high production values really need to fail.
I think its a pretty safe bet they will have 500k subs by the end of the year (if they deserve it or not is a whole different story). Based on the server status now, which is very comparable to Rift last december, the 1.2 million sub number probably isnt a lie. The only way it would lose another 50% in the next 6 months is if they didnt have updates. STrange as it may seem, there are plenty of people who like the game.
None of the updates they are doing atm is moving the game forware / expanding it. 1.3 is just stuff that should be in anyway, especially server transfers.
This time last year in SWG we were waiting for GCW 2 Space to be added, that was more exciting to look forward to than all of 1.3.
SWTORs updates as Flashpoints are more like DLC you can get for cheaper than a monthly sub fee. The updates that will keep people playing are things that people can tinker with - more metagaming. WIth the laying off of staff chances of getting any meaty content now have been reduced.
A lot of people like Vanguard too, but still does not get the server status off light. SWTOR is more so, as is not that old and people still levelling up characters, but less likely to carry on playing once reach 50 than other MMOs including Vanguard.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
SWTOR was never designed to cater towards the SWG crowd, but I dont disagree with you that more metagaming would be a big help.
Regardless of what should or should not have been in the game at launch, after 1.3 SWTOR will have addressed:
The combat animation delay bug
The UI
Lack of easy grouping for the socially inept
(hopefully) low server populations
They are at least attacking the biggest complaints against it, the ones that pretty much everyone agrees should be tackled asap (although a lot dont like LFD).
And they have one thing thats in their favor: They have sold over 2 million copies. I am willing to bet after every patch they will do a free period (Rift does this too) so people can come back and try it out. After 1.3 the only major thing that really needs to be tackled from a feature standpoint is guilds. Then they can just focus on content, and the details things like day/night cycles.
I never said it was meant to cater to the SWG crowd. It should be catered to the MMO crowd, not single player crowd.
Personally content is greater than features. SWG sustained playerbase mostly by the constant content, and never tackled population issues with free transfers until 2009. The free transfers /merges actually lost more players after it, than not doing anything at all. If people have nothing to do even on a larger population server then they are not going to stick around still
In STO, the devs make sure there is different stuff going on each week/weekend. Throughout May they have reun the feature series, which one series can only be done in one week. I was able to do the first week on a new character but unable to do the rest as character not high enough. By the time they rerun it again, the character should be high enough. Also there are hourly events throughout the day.
In LOTRO they doing seasonal events,and the spring event has just gone in now and throughout June. Plus they keep doing sales each week in the store.
The devs seem to be more on it and keeping the games updated in other MMOs, keeping people entertained.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
I honestly think the base design and focus of the game is wrong & that is why it will be dead. its an MMO in name only, there is really nothing massively multiplayer about the game as it is and its been designed from the ground up with this major flaw built in. The storyline is a massive crutch in this case & as a primary focus is not enough to make up for the other shortfalls of this as an MMO.
I like you am a huge starwars fan but I have been massively dissapointed with this game, to the point I honestly wish I never bought it.
If they had held this game back to flesh out the storylines further and then turned it into a co-op CRPG it could have been a good game but as an MMO it is bland & flat. Even the people who i know who denied anything with the game have left & will not go back.
Going to a buy2play model or free2play model may delay the inevitable but I still think it will be dead inside 12 months.
You do realize SWTOR is 5 months old, right? And they did do one event already last month? Its not like they have done nothing in the last 5 months. It rivals any other MMORPG's first five months of updates besides Rift.
Of course if they had done a lot of this stuff before release the game would have been much better off...
[mod edit]
But apparently these losses when combined with all kinds of write-offs are actually how big companies make their money!
So, maybe, rather than bashing big, bad EA you may want to thank EA... because to me it still fumbles the mind how a company can keep not just servers running but also a support, marketing, and community staff and a development team for a game that was close to 10 years old and had just around 5000 subscribers (DAoC Summer 2011)
As to the decline of SWTOR subs... well, did you just here that bubble burst? It was the dream of the power of the IP!
IPs are a very tricky thing: they can suffer from trends... while at the same time having a hardcore base.
When I went to see SW EpI 3D in Feb there was a grandpa coming out of the movie with his 6 year old kid. From what I was hearing this was the first time the kid had seen any SW movie, ever, anywhere, and he liked it.
Makes perfect sense given that the recent assault of SWism was a "fab" BlueRay release that pretty much was not a casual purchase for the guy who'd like to once again see SW. (Still kicking my but that I didn't buy any of the two 6 DVD box sets released before that...): SW has not really been out there too much for the general public in the last few years... with Clone Wars stuck in that twilight of being a bit a cartoon while at the same time being a bit too gritty to be kid stuff, while also not "adult" enough to be right for adults...
In short: what SWTOR could draw upon was the SW fanbase. There was no magic "suddenly we have found another 10 Mio market share that we can sell SWTOR to" poof!
The fanbase came, it saw... some stayed, some left... the whole thing gets a bit warpped by regional releases where of course the APAC release allowed everybody down under to finally experience SWTOR without having to import-order it from abroad.
Yeah, all good and fine, but why the huge drop so soon?
Right... I'll admit that there's a lot of me guessing in there...
BW/EA is obviously a bit tricky when it comes to subscriber numbers: frankly, if you've just opened the box, installed the game, and are setting up your account... you are a subscriber only in that sense that a) you have active game time (via the box or a timecard) and b) you have set up subscription details.
Does that make you a subscriber? Well... I'd say at that time, no... you are a subscriber if you've actually started paying subscription fees... EA may see things different though...
it's a bit similar to re-trialing other old MMO titles running under EA: you may have an old account that confirms you have the right to a returner trial, but there is a chance you are not going to pay a sub fee despite you actually having to set up sub details. And I wouldn't be surprised if EA were to count each of these returner trials as a subscription! Which obviously gets cancelled again.
Now, I never looked at the free trials or the buddy pass things for SWTOR, but once again I'm sure EA wouldn't find it hard to put a spin on it that those guys who just drop in for a weekend test are also considered "subscribers".
So, the quick (and huge) drop in subscribers is really nothing but what you have in other games, MMO or not: people bought it, tested it, liked it or not, considered it played and finished or not, stuck around or not past the initial 30 days, the first subscription period...
Because, see, what I have noticed (and where BW has made a mistake of making things not unique enough, not class focused enough) is that a lot of people where saying "Hey, I played my character, now I'm done because at lvl50 there ain't much to do..." all correct... but SWTOR offered the solution of starting alts for just that, and actually a smart solution... except that too much was too widely available... if there had been more quests that are unique to each class, heck, you wanna bet that (eventually) people WOULD have gone and replayed the game 3, 5, 8 times? And never spacebarred!
Yet, sadly people couldn't be trusted to figure out that this is still possible if you "ration" the quests smartly...
so yeah, for many people the game was just a one-run singleplayer game... and why keep a sub for that?
Or just tell BioWare to close down SWTOR and make you a new game for free. Afterall they can just canabalize some bits from their old SWTOR game... right?
/facepalm
[mod edit]
I'm sorry, the consumer base 10 years ago were gamers who invested a lot of themselves (money, time, especially time, weeks, months, years) into just a very limited number of games (between 1 - 3).
They expected to pay for every major upgrade (via retailbox expansion).
They would never demand that a game should go F2P as that was unheard of!
They tested a new game sometimes via being part of the beta test (running for multiple weeks to help game developer improve the game) but often by simply purchasing it and then tried to determine if that game would fit their style of gaming/peak their interest.
Today's consumer base are casual gamers... the larger part of which have probably never stayed longer than 3 months with any MMO after they left WoW, assuming that they actually did leave WoW and just give it some rest to test that new hyped up super MMO/wait until the chaos of the latest WoW has settled.
To they it's the norm that any major MMO (except of course WoW) will be F2P within a year (afterall, who cares about the game designers, they didn't care enough about the customers to create a game that would beat WoW so they are dumb and useless and have no clue anyways and even a 17 year old cheerleader bimbo could have done a better job)
To them micro transactions are an acceptable option, as long as those transactions are pretty much limited to cosmetic modifications; any micro transaction that would actually offer advantages that can be bought may not be allowed! Afterall, why should the developer have a realistic way of making money with his item shop if the fancy Asia kiddo concept of spending $100s for costmetic changes in game is right there?
They expect any feature from any other game that has been release or will shortly be released, as well as any feature that they may have seen hinted at in any new game, to be included into the next game that will be released or to be added to any game already released via the next free update within the next 10 days (but obviously will start complaining if the update has not been released after 5 days).
They expect that a new game is being released perfectly tailored to them as obviously they have already (sort of, one can always cancel that CC charge, right?) invested their money into the game via pre-purchase which gives them access to the few BWEs which aside from allowing them to happily become the smartest experts regarding this game, but more importantly obviously must have shown the game devs automatically where they were wrong when creating the game for the individual casual gamer of today.
[mod edit]
Right, so, now that that's out of the system...
Riiiiiiiiiiiight... you know there is a huge difference between F2P and B2P?
So, maybe instead of just tossing out trendy "tags" you should actually consider what business strategy you want to follow, especially if you want to "help" a company save its game.
A B2P concept could work... alas it would have to be determined by the money BW has made from SWTOR as of right now: see games that tie with major IPs are hardly ever sleepers just because if you are a fan of the IP you want to get it straightaway... there is of course always a "saving grace" option where re-populizing the IP may help make people aware of the game, or the game developers coming up with a "Jesus patch" update that suddenly turns the whole game/gaming experience around, making it not more attaractive for IP fanboys but actually putting it on the whole gaming community's radar as a huge blip.
Either of the two seems questionable as Lucas is going to roll thru 2 more years of prequel releases in 3D, and, well, given the times it's really impossible to figure out what may actually make a gamer jump...
BW's best option may remain with a subscription system... though giving away the base, the "box" as a free download instead of selling it MAY work as it would give gamers the chance for extended testing, longer than a weekend test, for a smaller price than when you buy the box and get 30 days for free.
(This was actually what I had hoped BW would do from initial release: game for free but full price sub. Well, they went a different way...)
But, just drop everything and go F2P? Yeah, while SWTOR would see an increase in gamers (as pretty much all P2P to F2P switches cause), it does not mean that those same newcomers won't leave again shortly...
and what is it with people asking for cosmetic money shops?
I mean I get that you want to change your looks as your mood fits, but heck, if that's your tickler, go play some "social" game and not some adventure game. Frankly, if you were my team mate, I would probably not notice most of your cosmetic changes, and if you were to go as far as calling for a break, just as we are about to enter the Lair of the Mega-Evil Humpadoodle, just because you quickly need to buy a new hairdo, be prepared to be kicked!
If you want cash shop, be prepared for the full onslaught meaning booster packs, power weapons, etc. because, really, that's what I feel you PvP junkies deserve: to be owned by gamers who like to invest a bit more, though obviously - fitting for this day and age - money rather than time. :-P
"fix the PvP"...?
I just love how people always start crying for something to be "fixed" because it just isn't as they'd like to have it...
Yes, there are aspects of PvP that could be addressed, and yes, there are aspects of PvP that could be improved...
But even as somebody who has lived and died thru a fair share of ganking, of stealth attacks/kills, of PvP attacks while already being in the midst of it with a PvE mob in contested territories, I'll have to say that yes, I do have fun in PvP... and it works as I would expect things to go... given the current type of MMO gamer... :-P
"do MORE for space combat/travel (no rails)"... *rolls eyes* dude, you are making it impossible NOT to become a troll!
Right, do yourself a favor and watch a 6 movies again. Then count the minutes that there is actual space combat.
Now, do yourself another favor and count the minutes that in the movies people are travelling thru space AND are not engaged in something else.
You will see that the SW movies actually - overall - offer very little of it. And when it is there, often focus keeps being shifted to other combat/tense situations (think Ep I Fight to break Siege of Naboo/Capture the Vice Roy/Meet the Natives complex, or Ep VI Attack on Death Star 2/Endor infiltration/Luke, come to the Dark Side complex).
And SWTOR runs with that ball making it obvious that this is NOT a game about space combat! It's a "value added option" (which I used once or twice to get my Flyboy title, but not any further).
So, yeah, IF you want a SW space flight simulator, I'm sure there are loads of options out there, but don't expect SWTOR to make a 180 degree turn just so that it can have everything in there...
Because, if you think about it, given the current player numbers, do you really think it would help if some more players were to hide themselves in their little SWTOR cockpits go off spacehunting (PvE) or off to take their dog for a fight (PvP)?
I do believe that you are a huge fan of the IP, but with your line "take away some of the VO on side quest (annoying so gamers spacebar spam it)" you have shown that - sadly - you don't understand how this IP is used in SWTOR!
You have that dream of a SW game you'd like to see - just like all those people who now curse SWTOR for not being SWG.
Guess what, I've had the same! Games where I really liked the IP and thought that it would be just this way, and then it turned out to be completely different... and, well, I wasn't too happy.
Maybe you should just try to accept that some games are too "broken" to ever be what you are dreaming they should be... may make things easier for you than accepting that sometimes your tastes are just not really shared with the market segent a game is made for!
SWTOR IS a story-driven game, says so on the website.
So, asking them to take the voice overs away is pretty much like the first step towards asking them to, I don't know, remove any multiplayer option? It's BW's design not yours, you think you can do better? Get yourself a crew, get in touch with LucasArts... now if you are smart you create your own SW IP spinoff just like BW did, because otherwise you'll also have to bend knee before BW to get their permission to use this IP.
So, once you are all sorted, get to it, quickly, we want to see your brill game by next summer (2013).
No offense meant mate, but you are just trying to "save" SWTOR the wrong way!
There has never been a good knife made from bad steel.
A good building can not be built on a bad foundation.
In other words...
No.
This thing will linger on long enough for EA to recoup the money it wants to, with a small, dedicated / psychologically invested player base, and then pull the plug when it wants to.
Unlike some other companies, EA has no problem putting games down....
"They" also said there were no drops in subs, players or problems with server populations. They said all the engine problems belonged to a 5% crowd with obsolete computers. They said the game was growing. They said the game was going to have 'heroic' combat. They said there would be no grind.
They said a lot.
And it was all lies.