They are actually managing to mistreat and harass the few players remaining playing the game.
GMs threatening to ban players PVPing on a PVP server. Then lying about the event occurring and harassing the people posting about it, while trying to censor all the evidence.
Just... remarkable.
Lol. If that's remarkable, then the fact that CS people didn't delete the thread, went so far to re-investigate then publicised their findings and publicly apologised that they were human enough to have made a mistake should be a feat of legends, something to tell your kids about and an event that should restore faith in humanity
I think I get this thread now: it's a place where haters and trolls can go to lament about the horrible wrongs, evils and crimes against humanity of boogeyman Bioware and its evil CS minions, where fanbois can man the defenses as usual and where the rest of us that are mostly indifferent are left wondering what all the fuss and dramaqueening is about concerning an incident that seemed to have been resolved satisfactorily in the end
Well, probably not satisfactorily to everyone esp some bystanders, but then again, I've learnt that some people in life live according to the credo 'never forgive, never forget, never acknowledge anything good at all' about the object of their grudge and dislike.
... ah damn, I went back to this thread, I must've been really bored >.< time to do something else instead of surfing this site.
They are actually managing to mistreat and harass the few players remaining playing the game.
GMs threatening to ban players PVPing on a PVP server. Then lying about the event occurring and harassing the people posting about it, while trying to censor all the evidence.
Just... remarkable.
Lol. If that's remarkable, then the fact that CS people didn't delete the thread, went so far to re-investigate then publicised their findings and publicly apologised that they were human enough to have made a mistake should be a feat of legends, something to tell your kids about and an event that should restore faith in humanity
I think I get this thread now: it's a place where haters and trolls can go to lament about the horrible wrongs, evils and crimes against humanity of boogeyman Bioware and its evil CS minions, where fanbois can man the defenses as usual and where the rest of us that are mostly indifferent are left wondering what all the fuss and dramaqueening is about concerning an incident that seemed to have been resolved satisfactorily in the end
Well, probably not satisfactorily to everyone esp some bystanders, but then again, I've learnt that some people in life live according to the credo 'never forgive, never forget, never acknowledge anything good at all' about the object of their grudge and dislike.
... ah damn, I went back to this thread, I must've been really bored >.< time to do something else instead of surfing this site.
Actually what it shows is that GMs are able to bully and threaten players. And that the only way to redress the situation is to post about it on forums, cross-referenced on facebook and other sites, which is what happened here.
There are many times this would have occurred without any redress of the situation. Many times where players were just bullied and threatened, just like they do on the official SWTOR forums, and there is no happy ending.
In this case, Kioshei who posted about the issue was bullied by the forum mods, until his guild came to his rescue with additional screenshots and evidence. That is what it took for Bioware to finally admit fault.
Our internal fraud team has confirmed that this is fake and we are closing this thread. Kiroshei has been actioned against accordingly. As per our forum rules, fake reports of this kind will not be tolerated.
Yeah, GM's are able to bully in any MMO bc of their enhanced abilities. It also shows that it can be discovered, brought to light and dealt with when someone crosses the line. Doesn't happen always that it's discovered or even dealt with, not in any MMO, but this was an example where the perpetrator was found about his idiocy
Yeah, GM's are able to bully in any MMO bc of their enhanced abilities. It also shows that it can be discovered, brought to light and dealt with when someone crosses the line. Doesn't happen always that it's discovered or even dealt with, not in any MMO, but this was an example where the perpetrator was found about his idiocy
Meh, I'm off. It's a sunny day.
Bioware forum mods (Gonzalez) engaged in unscrupulous, blatant bullying on the forums, trying to cover up the fault, banning the person who reported the GM abuse, before finally realising they could no longer keep it quiet when his guildies came to his rescue and didn't let the issue drop. They had to use external websites as SWTOR.com itself was heavily censored.
It was only because this was cross-posted on Reddit that it was fixed, the original posters were silenced with immediate bans on swtor.com, as usual with any dissenters - they tried to cover it up but failed.
Before it was all over, they had, on their own forums, publicly slandered a paying customer calling him out by name as a "liar and fraudster", taken action against that player, and thus J Gonzalez violated their own privacy policy - all while supporting a GM who was bullying players in-game.
Perhaps i'm reading into it too much but the last mod post came across as though there had been an attempted cover up hence them not discovering it in their initial investigation.
- Official SWTOR forums should not be used, they are heavily censored and even GMs abusing players will be protected by forum mods and internal cover-ups.
- If you have problems or even opinions, use external websites like Reddit, or MMORPG.com, since that is the only way of not being silenced and banned.
- Official SWTOR forums should not be used, they are heavily censored and even GMs abusing players will be protected by forum mods and internal cover-ups.
- If you have problems or even opinions, use external websites like Reddit, or MMORPG.com, since that is the only way of not being silenced and banned.
Edgar Allen Poe was once quoted as say "Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see."
In the gaming world I think it would more accurate to say "Believe nothing of what you read on the official forums and only half of what you read on unofficial forums."
Perhaps i'm reading into it too much but the last mod post came across as though there had been an attempted cover up hence them not discovering it in their initial investigation.
Yes that is how I read it as well.
It is still disgusting abuse of power by the GM though
- Official SWTOR forums should not be used, they are heavily censored and even GMs abusing players will be protected by forum mods and internal cover-ups.
- If you have problems or even opinions, use external websites like Reddit, or MMORPG.com, since that is the only way of not being silenced and banned.
Edgar Allen Poe was once quoted as say "Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see."
In the gaming world I think it would more accurate to say "Believe nothing of what you read on the official forums and only half of what you read on unofficial forums."
You give them credit for half? May be too generous.
Still, when placing your wagers, "player is lying" is still a far better bet than "company is lying", even if you can catch someone breaking their toe on a PR stone once in a while.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
This is disgusting, to think I have been contemplating resubbing...
At least they get a phone call, but seriously this is an apalling abuse of power.
"Again, I apologize to anyone affected. To those players impacted by this issue, you will be receiving personal calls from our Customer Service team shortly to review the situation and receive a personal apology"
1. OP is wrong , lying , and we know it , we are closing the thread. Thank you for your time.
2.Even though people are screaming and show proof in screenshots , we know better , we investigated "THOROUGHLY" , and case closed , we are right. Thank you for your time.
3.OP was right , sorry. Thank you for your time.
I think TOR really has potential to surpass Vanguard in popcorn watching of the trainwreck incoming over the next several months.
I thought it was funny when they said they'd banned him, but he still posting. And still putting up pictures. And fanboys were calling him a troll and a liar.
And then: BOOOM! "oops..."
BioWare is just reflexively stupid anymore. They point fingers everywhere but themselves for problems. Alienate tons of customers. Generate huge bad-will. Then make lame non-appologies or even weaker quasi-appologies.
I'm most surprised at BW admitting their mistake, they're not very good at doing that. This is the first time I've seen that from them, heh. Surprised they didn't try cover it up.
Hmm. GM guy made an error, other CS guys at first couldn't find proof of it, but after a 2nd, more encompassing investigation did find proof, apologise for their former error and also made known that they'd deal with the GM guy that made that mistake.
Sounded like a fair method of working to me, people work, people make mistakes, some people aren't even big or honest enough to apologise when they err, I thought this was decent.
People are so judgmental and quick to scorn these days
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by KhinRunite
Hmmm...I don't quite get this. Seems to me they made a mistake, and issued an apology. They'll even call each impacted players to give personal apologies. I thought it's considered normal for human beings to make mistakes.
Except that they have a reputation of talking to or treating everyone this way.
If that should be remembered, then also should be remembered that they're willing to re-investigate and apologise when they've erred. Bioware or not, I found the process how this was handled an example of good problem resolving: not always everything wrong is found immediately, but re-investigating and admitting when you were wrong and apologising for it and taking appropriate measures, that's what I want a CS of a game company to do.
Personally if this had happened to me with whatever company I was doing business with, I would've walked away from this situation somewhat disgruntled but also satisfied and with slightly more respect and trust in that CS team. Re-investigation and apologising aren't that commonly done in CS dealings.
Lol, anyway, was just curious what this thread was about, but seemed like a trivial thing, so I'm out of here again
They ony re-investigated because they were getting a huge black-eye on the forums. If they keep pushing, BioWare would have left it where it was.
Don't pretend it was done out of the goodness of their hearts. It was a major, major issue in the PvP forums. Tons of threads from tons of people filled with tons of posts and demands for satisfaction.
- Official SWTOR forums should not be used, they are heavily censored and even GMs abusing players will be protected by forum mods and internal cover-ups.
- If you have problems or even opinions, use external websites like Reddit, or MMORPG.com, since that is the only way of not being silenced and banned.
Edgar Allen Poe was once quoted as say "Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see."
In the gaming world I think it would more accurate to say "Believe nothing of what you read on the official forums and only half of what you read on unofficial forums."
You give them credit for half? May be too generous.
Still, when placing your wagers, "player is lying" is still a far better bet than "company is lying", even if you can catch someone breaking their toe on a PR stone once in a while.
I've been to too many BioWare rodeo's to figure that even one second. This is a company that went, back in the BG1 and BG2 days, as one of the best and most approachable developers in computer gaming to, by the time of Jade Empire, compulsively lying and finger pointing at customers.
I'm just thinking back to Feb. when myself and many others tried to warn Bio / EA about their customer service and just the overall health of the game. They attempted to listen to somethings; maybe?.
But this ship has taken on alot of water and the buckets they have just aren't big enough right now. It's starting to spread from the players and the resentment with this title is starting to hit their GM's.
Funny but not funny.. smh..
Damn..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
Originally posted by Tayah I'm most surprised at BW admitting their mistake, they're not very good at doing that. This is the first time I've seen that from them, heh. Surprised they didn't try cover it up.
They don't seem to have a super good grasp of what an MMORPG community is like. While the people in the community do not stick around for years like would with WoW or the older games, they do stick around longer than with console games or single player titles. Stuff doesn't just 'go away'.
There is no real palatable way to approach a mistake, but admitting it, apologizing and then moving on quickly seems to be the best way I've seen (so far).
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I was hoping to use ToR to bring my wife into the gaming fold.
But...this is just garbage.
Either you have a GM/CS dept. that fails to know what server ruleset is active....or you have a GM/CS dept staffed by non-professionals. Both are unacceptable to me.
I'll take my money elsewhere, man I do love capitalism.
I've been to too many BioWare rodeo's to figure that even one second. This is a company that went, back in the BG1 and BG2 days, as one of the best and most approachable developers in computer gaming to, by the time of Jade Empire, compulsively lying and finger pointing at customers.
I don't know. Even in the DA forum they were pretty open about things I thought and way more accustomed to letting criticism, debates, concepts, etc. fly. Hell there were times they even kept the banter up with the posters sometimes conceding and other times doing their best to explain their reasoning for things. Like night and day even from then really. Different people monitoring and dealing with these things I suppose? I mean even the devs would pop in there from time to time. I thought it was pretty cool actually.
Honestly, while this does simply add to the muck the reality is this could have happened in any game. Every game has their corrupt gms and mods make mistakes. While it is embarassing for them you name the game and someone can pull up antics that happened in game and poured over into the forums that were handled like shit by the mods because they jumped the gun and automatically assumed the players are in the wrong. Not defending it. Just saying far as I'm concerned this happens more often than not in games from what I have seen.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Comments
Thought I was reading the Mortal online forum for a moment....had to double check.
Lol. If that's remarkable, then the fact that CS people didn't delete the thread, went so far to re-investigate then publicised their findings and publicly apologised that they were human enough to have made a mistake should be a feat of legends, something to tell your kids about and an event that should restore faith in humanity
I think I get this thread now: it's a place where haters and trolls can go to lament about the horrible wrongs, evils and crimes against humanity of boogeyman Bioware and its evil CS minions, where fanbois can man the defenses as usual and where the rest of us that are mostly indifferent are left wondering what all the fuss and dramaqueening is about concerning an incident that seemed to have been resolved satisfactorily in the end
Well, probably not satisfactorily to everyone esp some bystanders, but then again, I've learnt that some people in life live according to the credo 'never forgive, never forget, never acknowledge anything good at all' about the object of their grudge and dislike.
... ah damn, I went back to this thread, I must've been really bored >.< time to do something else instead of surfing this site.
Actually what it shows is that GMs are able to bully and threaten players. And that the only way to redress the situation is to post about it on forums, cross-referenced on facebook and other sites, which is what happened here.
There are many times this would have occurred without any redress of the situation. Many times where players were just bullied and threatened, just like they do on the official SWTOR forums, and there is no happy ending.
In this case, Kioshei who posted about the issue was bullied by the forum mods, until his guild came to his rescue with additional screenshots and evidence. That is what it took for Bioware to finally admit fault.
JovethGonzalez
Joined: Nov 2011
Yeah, GM's are able to bully in any MMO bc of their enhanced abilities. It also shows that it can be discovered, brought to light and dealt with when someone crosses the line. Doesn't happen always that it's discovered or even dealt with, not in any MMO, but this was an example where the perpetrator was found about his idiocy
Meh, I'm off. It's a sunny day.
What a cluster fuck
Bioware forum mods (Gonzalez) engaged in unscrupulous, blatant bullying on the forums, trying to cover up the fault, banning the person who reported the GM abuse, before finally realising they could no longer keep it quiet when his guildies came to his rescue and didn't let the issue drop. They had to use external websites as SWTOR.com itself was heavily censored.
It was only because this was cross-posted on Reddit that it was fixed, the original posters were silenced with immediate bans on swtor.com, as usual with any dissenters - they tried to cover it up but failed.
Before it was all over, they had, on their own forums, publicly slandered a paying customer calling him out by name as a "liar and fraudster", taken action against that player, and thus J Gonzalez violated their own privacy policy - all while supporting a GM who was bullying players in-game.
This is bad, bad, bad.
Perhaps i'm reading into it too much but the last mod post came across as though there had been an attempted cover up hence them not discovering it in their initial investigation.
Moral of the story:
- Official SWTOR forums should not be used, they are heavily censored and even GMs abusing players will be protected by forum mods and internal cover-ups.
- If you have problems or even opinions, use external websites like Reddit, or MMORPG.com, since that is the only way of not being silenced and banned.
Moral of the story:
GM's need to be screened and hired as front line customer service employees, not just people that do it for peanuts and a free subscription.
Edgar Allen Poe was once quoted as say "Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see."
In the gaming world I think it would more accurate to say "Believe nothing of what you read on the official forums and only half of what you read on unofficial forums."
The Enlightened take things Lightly
Yes that is how I read it as well.
It is still disgusting abuse of power by the GM though
You give them credit for half? May be too generous.
Still, when placing your wagers, "player is lying" is still a far better bet than "company is lying", even if you can catch someone breaking their toe on a PR stone once in a while.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
This is disgusting, to think I have been contemplating resubbing...
At least they get a phone call, but seriously this is an apalling abuse of power.
"Again, I apologize to anyone affected. To those players impacted by this issue, you will be receiving personal calls from our Customer Service team shortly to review the situation and receive a personal apology"
Healing the world since 2005
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Lesson: Don't mess with cyber bullies
I thought it was funny when they said they'd banned him, but he still posting. And still putting up pictures. And fanboys were calling him a troll and a liar.
And then: BOOOM! "oops..."
BioWare is just reflexively stupid anymore. They point fingers everywhere but themselves for problems. Alienate tons of customers. Generate huge bad-will. Then make lame non-appologies or even weaker quasi-appologies.
I'm most surprised at BW admitting their mistake, they're not very good at doing that. This is the first time I've seen that from them, heh. Surprised they didn't try cover it up.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
They ony re-investigated because they were getting a huge black-eye on the forums. If they keep pushing, BioWare would have left it where it was.
Don't pretend it was done out of the goodness of their hearts. It was a major, major issue in the PvP forums. Tons of threads from tons of people filled with tons of posts and demands for satisfaction.
I've been to too many BioWare rodeo's to figure that even one second. This is a company that went, back in the BG1 and BG2 days, as one of the best and most approachable developers in computer gaming to, by the time of Jade Empire, compulsively lying and finger pointing at customers.
I'm just thinking back to Feb. when myself and many others tried to warn Bio / EA about their customer service and just the overall health of the game. They attempted to listen to somethings; maybe?.
But this ship has taken on alot of water and the buckets they have just aren't big enough right now. It's starting to spread from the players and the resentment with this title is starting to hit their GM's.
Funny but not funny.. smh..
Damn..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
They don't seem to have a super good grasp of what an MMORPG community is like. While the people in the community do not stick around for years like would with WoW or the older games, they do stick around longer than with console games or single player titles. Stuff doesn't just 'go away'.
There is no real palatable way to approach a mistake, but admitting it, apologizing and then moving on quickly seems to be the best way I've seen (so far).
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Total trainwreck. Atleast Vanguard has a decent game behind it.
Just when I thought that EA/Biofail could not possibly be a bigger bunch of fu*kups they go and do stuff like this.
That thread was pure comedy and another perfect example as to why SWTOR is going to fail big time by the end of 2012.
I was hoping to use ToR to bring my wife into the gaming fold.
But...this is just garbage.
Either you have a GM/CS dept. that fails to know what server ruleset is active....or you have a GM/CS dept staffed by non-professionals. Both are unacceptable to me.
I'll take my money elsewhere, man I do love capitalism.
Couldn't the OP of that thread push a Libel suit against EA/Bioware? It technically was a written defamation of character was it not?
I don't know. Even in the DA forum they were pretty open about things I thought and way more accustomed to letting criticism, debates, concepts, etc. fly. Hell there were times they even kept the banter up with the posters sometimes conceding and other times doing their best to explain their reasoning for things. Like night and day even from then really. Different people monitoring and dealing with these things I suppose? I mean even the devs would pop in there from time to time. I thought it was pretty cool actually.
Honestly, while this does simply add to the muck the reality is this could have happened in any game. Every game has their corrupt gms and mods make mistakes. While it is embarassing for them you name the game and someone can pull up antics that happened in game and poured over into the forums that were handled like shit by the mods because they jumped the gun and automatically assumed the players are in the wrong. Not defending it. Just saying far as I'm concerned this happens more often than not in games from what I have seen.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.