A combination of Tera's combat and GW2 combat with a TSWesqe skill system but with more active slots. Oh, and AoC style fatalities. Those should be in every game anyway, developers shouldn't even think about it, just put them in there like they would the chat box.
It will be hard to make a MMO with aiming.... Because of the lag that is inevitable.....
So I think there should be targetting, BUT it shouldn't be "hard-locked".... If anyone here have played Dark Souls, that's what I like it to be, were you can lock on a target (don't need to), but you can dodge and you have to block attacks with a shield or weapon if you want to stay alive, and not even spells will be hard-locked to the target, except some.....
I don't mean that it should be excacly like in Dark Souls, because that wouldn't really fit into a MMO, but some part of it would be awesome in a MMO.....
I have a lot of other ideas of combat systems.... It's a shame that the companies that make MMO's doesn't have any imagination what so ever.......
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
the question i want to propose to the Pub here at mmorpg.com is simple:
Whats your dream MMO combat system?
-skillsets
-abilties
-movement
-overall feel
-reactiveness
What have you loved in past games? What have you hated in past games? Why was it good/crappy? The more indepth the better, id say go all out if you wanted to, describing eveything you like/dont.
i threw a poll on to this just to see more of what people would pick over what. thanks for your time guys!
POST # 7 Has the real intented Poll, please scroll down!
class oriented skills combining a avatar's religion, political outlook, and mechanic style
for example, i think most casters which paint runes in th air or on the ground should require the player to make the marking with stylus rather than push a button.
abbilities should have a large diversity and range but always fit with how the avatar is supposed to interact with the game world.
movement? i find wasd with mouse fine.
the overal feel should be fluid, and personalized.
the reactivenes should be hidden. so in my rune caster example, there is no cooldown but a max speed you can draw the character.
my first mmo was wow. honestly there wasn't anything great about it other than the community
- Very different gameplay depending upon character class.
- Depending upon the character class, different things have to be considered. As a simple example, some classes have to think what weapon type to use against which opponent, others dont need to care about that at all since they use mostly magic or only can use one weapon type in the first place.
- No one button mashing - better abilities have longer cooldowns, and the optimal sequence of actions is actually hard to figure out. Cooldowns might even include random components, too (This specific idea isnt present in Vanguard combat. Its present in Vanguard diplomacy, though).
- Many classes have dynamic group buffs to increase group performance, adding another layer of complexity: do I push the group damage or do I rather try to make more damage on my own ? And more stuff like that, like group healing.
- Dynamic events disrupt the flow, opening new opportunitie (socalled finisher lines, which are sequences of actions up to 3 actions long, for the War Cleric).
- Secondary systems are in place, such as point systems. Using certain abilities grants the player points they can invest executing special abilities. Not all classes have this and it works differently with every class. For example, Monk Healers (Disciple) have always high Yin (which is their point system) at the start of the battle and lots of abilities to refresh it, and lots of abilities that consume it, thus forcing the Disciple to keep getting points all the time. Paladin and Druid on the other hand have point systems that only slowly regenerate over time, making the abilities using them up something one has to time well.
- Another Vanguard secondary system are weaknesses and exploits. Using certain abilities successfully on a mob adds a weakness to them, such as "staggering". If other players are quick enough, they can use matching abilities of their class to exploit this weakness for various benefits, such as extra damage.
- And more stuff like that.
I also like:
- Buffs on others actually take a part of your mana pool away, thus making you think about what buffs you actually want to put up (from Dragon Age: Origins).
- You can disrupt abilities of others (Mesmer in Guild Wars).
All in all I want combat to be a gamble of depth and complexity: what is the best ability to use next ? I do not want a trivialistic combat system where there are only 8 abilities (Guild Wars, or 10 for GW2), or worse combat systems where you have to think about stuff like aiming. Thats no intellectual challenge and thus boring to me.
Thanks for the continued opinions guys. this thread should give peoeple a reference point for the best combat systems ever made. or simply what people enjoy the most.
my personal favorite system was The Matrix Online, not many people ive met even got to play the game before it was shut down. "interlock" was kind of a simple boring system but it worked, and when you lost you knew you deserved it.
Dream combat? Well, lets mix Mount&Blade series with Witcher 2. So, add in some sort of combos, but still keep melee as -deadly- with directional attacks, -parries, -chambering and so forth (all of course done with mouse.) Could also add wrestling/pushing instead of just kicking.
Of course battles shouldn't just be about players skills, but commanders and/or tactics what players use.
No twitch-based combat? Allright, lets just take D&D 3.5e rules. Preferably turn-based, ala Temple of Elemental Evil, but realtime could work too (see: Neverwinter nights series)
I miss the days where mobs didn't die in 10 seconds or less and neither did the players. Bring back at least one modern game with longer lasting, more tactical combat like the original EverQuest please.
Tough poll, I can't say any one of those things is more important than the other. If anything I think that's the issue, devs keep trying to perfect one facet of combat and leave the rest lacking, so in the end you get a variety of mediocrity, far worse than one particularly great system.
My ideal combat system is from a game that's not available for most people to play yet. It's called Kingdom Under Fire 2:
A mix of RPG and RTS where you can command whole armies. The unfortunate part is that it's a campaign style game, so it will be heavily instanced. I would love this kind of combat system, where you're growing stronger not just as a character but an army, in addition to the combat style, in an open-world setting.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
- very fast, vicious, no trinity, fight lots of mobs at the same time
- many different skills and mechanics
- interesting combo & skill customization
^^
I have to agree noting like slaughering the hords and having some good animations with different combo chains. Point click and key pressing FTW! No tab targeting in this.
Yeah, I was looking for the standard Tabtargeting or as I call it MMORPG style combat. If I wanted to play a MMOFPS I woudl go back to Planetside, that has been around since 2003.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Turn based with a Lost Odyessy or Shadow Hearts type "hit ring" and party(not AI but Player parties) combos
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny. Lao-Tze
You pick skills/spells from a list as you level and you select the ones that make up your active set like a deck of cards in a card game. You get to pick a combination of 4-5 of your available skills as your active deck.
e.g. the combat would be so there was no point trying to block or parry a giant or charging boar as you get knocked flying so when fighting things like that you'd select multiple dodge skills (if you had them). If you were fighting multiple humanoid mobs you'd pick a different set etc. Also various creatures would have weaknesses to different weapons so you'd select skills for the mobs you were fighting.
Secondly there'd be group skills i.e. skills that helped other players in the group e.g. a warrior with a shield could select a shield skill in their deck which allowed them to pick another player to defend which increased that player's defence as long as they stayed within range of the warrior or a priest could have a +2 solo holy defence spell and a +1 group holy defence spell.
So lots of tactical situational skills/spells which you choose as you level which are then selected to be in your current deck of skills/spells so every fight involved tactical decisions.
I really have liked WoW Style Combat and Tabula Rasa Style Combat for Ranged implementation (guns etc)
I PvPed allot in WoW, reached Rank 14 in Vanilla, so much that I appreciated its combat....too bad WoW PvP went downhill from BC onwards, otherwise I would pretty much be playing it still.
On both games
Most important factor was the Fluid Movement and Associated Combat Animations, Balanced FX, no disoreantation, the player can quickly know what is going on around them and who is doing what to whom etc etc.
Both games were really well made in that regard to permit for spacial awareness, something that lacks in many others due to poor animations unbalanced FX or overwhelming FX, Low Performance, unsynched Animations, Unsynched Ability Trigger to Animations, Breaks Counters etc.
Both games did these things very very well.
I do not like Pure FPS, controll for an MMO...it has to be 3rd person or with fluid transition and soft targeting like TB.
Cheers!
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
I don't have a particular dream combat system because I believe various combat systems have their own merits and serve different situations, playstyles, mechanics, worlds, etc. I'm not one to say "MMO's need more twitch" because I do not believe that's a genre-wide problem. It makes about as little sense to me as saying "all video games should be turn-based". I consider MMO to be a secondary over term on top of another genre, be it RPG, FPS, RTS, w/e.
Comments
So far, I like the Tera's combat system the most.
Website: http://www.emrendil.com
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A combination of Tera's combat and GW2 combat with a TSWesqe skill system but with more active slots. Oh, and AoC style fatalities. Those should be in every game anyway, developers shouldn't even think about it, just put them in there like they would the chat box.
Got to second this DCUO pretty much has is right. Block dodge counter combos etc all in place and the combat is far from slow.
It will be hard to make a MMO with aiming.... Because of the lag that is inevitable.....
So I think there should be targetting, BUT it shouldn't be "hard-locked".... If anyone here have played Dark Souls, that's what I like it to be, were you can lock on a target (don't need to), but you can dodge and you have to block attacks with a shield or weapon if you want to stay alive, and not even spells will be hard-locked to the target, except some.....
I don't mean that it should be excacly like in Dark Souls, because that wouldn't really fit into a MMO, but some part of it would be awesome in a MMO.....
I have a lot of other ideas of combat systems.... It's a shame that the companies that make MMO's doesn't have any imagination what so ever.......
TERA and Vindictus are currently my two favorite.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
class oriented skills combining a avatar's religion, political outlook, and mechanic style
for example, i think most casters which paint runes in th air or on the ground should require the player to make the marking with stylus rather than push a button.
abbilities should have a large diversity and range but always fit with how the avatar is supposed to interact with the game world.
movement? i find wasd with mouse fine.
the overal feel should be fluid, and personalized.
the reactivenes should be hidden. so in my rune caster example, there is no cooldown but a max speed you can draw the character.
my first mmo was wow. honestly there wasn't anything great about it other than the community
Basically like Vanguard, i.e.:
- Lots of abilities on all classes.
- Very different gameplay depending upon character class.
- Depending upon the character class, different things have to be considered. As a simple example, some classes have to think what weapon type to use against which opponent, others dont need to care about that at all since they use mostly magic or only can use one weapon type in the first place.
- No one button mashing - better abilities have longer cooldowns, and the optimal sequence of actions is actually hard to figure out. Cooldowns might even include random components, too (This specific idea isnt present in Vanguard combat. Its present in Vanguard diplomacy, though).
- Many classes have dynamic group buffs to increase group performance, adding another layer of complexity: do I push the group damage or do I rather try to make more damage on my own ? And more stuff like that, like group healing.
- Dynamic events disrupt the flow, opening new opportunitie (socalled finisher lines, which are sequences of actions up to 3 actions long, for the War Cleric).
- Secondary systems are in place, such as point systems. Using certain abilities grants the player points they can invest executing special abilities. Not all classes have this and it works differently with every class. For example, Monk Healers (Disciple) have always high Yin (which is their point system) at the start of the battle and lots of abilities to refresh it, and lots of abilities that consume it, thus forcing the Disciple to keep getting points all the time. Paladin and Druid on the other hand have point systems that only slowly regenerate over time, making the abilities using them up something one has to time well.
- Another Vanguard secondary system are weaknesses and exploits. Using certain abilities successfully on a mob adds a weakness to them, such as "staggering". If other players are quick enough, they can use matching abilities of their class to exploit this weakness for various benefits, such as extra damage.
- And more stuff like that.
I also like:
- Buffs on others actually take a part of your mana pool away, thus making you think about what buffs you actually want to put up (from Dragon Age: Origins).
- You can disrupt abilities of others (Mesmer in Guild Wars).
All in all I want combat to be a gamble of depth and complexity: what is the best ability to use next ? I do not want a trivialistic combat system where there are only 8 abilities (Guild Wars, or 10 for GW2), or worse combat systems where you have to think about stuff like aiming. Thats no intellectual challenge and thus boring to me.
Diablo 3 system.
- very fast, vicious, no trinity, fight lots of mobs at the same time
- many different skills and mechanics
- interesting combo & skill customization
Thanks for the continued opinions guys. this thread should give peoeple a reference point for the best combat systems ever made. or simply what people enjoy the most.
my personal favorite system was The Matrix Online, not many people ive met even got to play the game before it was shut down. "interlock" was kind of a simple boring system but it worked, and when you lost you knew you deserved it.
thanks for the continued feedback everyone.
DDO
You can do tab and target with it, or you can swing for the fences and hit anything that gets in your way. It's melee-centric but it's fantastic IMO.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Dream combat? Well, lets mix Mount&Blade series with Witcher 2. So, add in some sort of combos, but still keep melee as -deadly- with directional attacks, -parries, -chambering and so forth (all of course done with mouse.) Could also add wrestling/pushing instead of just kicking.
Of course battles shouldn't just be about players skills, but commanders and/or tactics what players use.
No twitch-based combat? Allright, lets just take D&D 3.5e rules. Preferably turn-based, ala Temple of Elemental Evil, but realtime could work too (see: Neverwinter nights series)
We?re all dead, just say it.
I miss the days where mobs didn't die in 10 seconds or less and neither did the players. Bring back at least one modern game with longer lasting, more tactical combat like the original EverQuest please.
Tough poll, I can't say any one of those things is more important than the other. If anything I think that's the issue, devs keep trying to perfect one facet of combat and leave the rest lacking, so in the end you get a variety of mediocrity, far worse than one particularly great system.
My ideal combat system is from a game that's not available for most people to play yet. It's called Kingdom Under Fire 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWc09Rc4HwY
A mix of RPG and RTS where you can command whole armies. The unfortunate part is that it's a campaign style game, so it will be heavily instanced. I would love this kind of combat system, where you're growing stronger not just as a character but an army, in addition to the combat style, in an open-world setting.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I'd still like to see Mount and Blade combat in a MMO......Im really surprised someone hasnt been able to pull this off yet.
^^
I have to agree noting like slaughering the hords and having some good animations with different combo chains. Point click and key pressing FTW! No tab targeting in this.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Yeah, I was looking for the standard Tabtargeting or as I call it MMORPG style combat. If I wanted to play a MMOFPS I woudl go back to Planetside, that has been around since 2003.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
A cross between Mortal online and darkfalls combat system..
At the moment MOs combat si a tad slow and Darkfalls too fast..Now mixed togeather it would be awesome
i like skyrim combat system and i like battefields set up to anything else i play thats not like this gets old very fast
Turn based with a Lost Odyessy or Shadow Hearts type "hit ring" and party(not AI but Player parties) combos
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
Darkfall combat - the skill grind + specialization = awesome real time MMO combat
Tactical
You pick skills/spells from a list as you level and you select the ones that make up your active set like a deck of cards in a card game. You get to pick a combination of 4-5 of your available skills as your active deck.
e.g. the combat would be so there was no point trying to block or parry a giant or charging boar as you get knocked flying so when fighting things like that you'd select multiple dodge skills (if you had them). If you were fighting multiple humanoid mobs you'd pick a different set etc. Also various creatures would have weaknesses to different weapons so you'd select skills for the mobs you were fighting.
Secondly there'd be group skills i.e. skills that helped other players in the group e.g. a warrior with a shield could select a shield skill in their deck which allowed them to pick another player to defend which increased that player's defence as long as they stayed within range of the warrior or a priest could have a +2 solo holy defence spell and a +1 group holy defence spell.
So lots of tactical situational skills/spells which you choose as you level which are then selected to be in your current deck of skills/spells so every fight involved tactical decisions.
Arcade fighter style combat, in a large scale world.
For an MMO,
I really have liked WoW Style Combat and Tabula Rasa Style Combat for Ranged implementation (guns etc)
I PvPed allot in WoW, reached Rank 14 in Vanilla, so much that I appreciated its combat....too bad WoW PvP went downhill from BC onwards, otherwise I would pretty much be playing it still.
On both games
Most important factor was the Fluid Movement and Associated Combat Animations, Balanced FX, no disoreantation, the player can quickly know what is going on around them and who is doing what to whom etc etc.
Both games were really well made in that regard to permit for spacial awareness, something that lacks in many others due to poor animations unbalanced FX or overwhelming FX, Low Performance, unsynched Animations, Unsynched Ability Trigger to Animations, Breaks Counters etc.
Both games did these things very very well.
I do not like Pure FPS, controll for an MMO...it has to be 3rd person or with fluid transition and soft targeting like TB.
Cheers!
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
I don't have a particular dream combat system because I believe various combat systems have their own merits and serve different situations, playstyles, mechanics, worlds, etc. I'm not one to say "MMO's need more twitch" because I do not believe that's a genre-wide problem. It makes about as little sense to me as saying "all video games should be turn-based". I consider MMO to be a secondary over term on top of another genre, be it RPG, FPS, RTS, w/e.
Ninja Gaiden stroke Shining Force.