Originally posted by Billius8 13) All classes play the same - for whatever reason, EQ2 decided each class needed a new ability with every level. While I can see mages having 50 spells, I cannot see warriors having 50 ways to kick someone "in the 'nads" or perform an AE attack. Was very contrived and none of the classes was very distinct from any other. All abilities sort of meshed over time. 14) Heroic opportunity wheel - felt very much like playing "whack-a-mole". Just constant, frenzied button mashing which drew focus away from the action and towards the flashing buttons. Immersion took a hit as there was no real strategy to combat. I know I went over my "8 or 10", but this whole game suffers from two things: A) The dev's focused too much on fixing perceived flaws in EQ1( i.e., camp-stealing, over-crowding of zones, kill-stealing, power-levelling through buffs, etc), and didn't realize that some of these perceived flaws actually added to the gaming experience. "Trains", for example, made dungeons doubly dangerous and exciting. EQ2 surgically removed trains by lobotomizing mobs, and immersion took a big hit. The dev's spent too much of their resources on magnificent graphics and it appears the actual game was not finished. Not enough zones, not enough content, etc. The most serious mistake Sony made was designing the game to draw in players other than their loyal EQ fan-base. They intended for current EQ-players to stay in EQLive. They were going to reward our years of loyal subscribership by leaving us stuck in that aging turkey of a game, and that is wrong, wrong, wrong!
All the classes do not play the same, AGAIN: Do not speak about this before seeing the changes... A ranger or a guardian cannot solo nearly as well as a necromancer, or conjurer.
Actually, if you go into combat with optimism and know what your doing, you dont have to "mash" keys or pay attention to flashing images... You add to the excitment with the buffs/extra damage these deliver.
I never found power-leveling with buffs exciting, took away from the experience to me. Kill stealing, wow, you must have never had this happen to you on a epic quest, or some other large kill. Overcrowding is good for no one (and if you try out the game now), you'll see that it is easy to form groups cross zone. Trains didn't make shit exciting, they were the most annoying thing ever created, and especially when ppl did it purposely.
Instead of writing about what is wrong (and isn't anymore) Try it out, read the forums... Check it out.
Originally posted by scaramoosh Down in Flames What a great joke!
I think the game will be down in flames When they see what a disappointment the expansion is everyone will drop out like me Left with like 100k subs then LOL
You're also another great mystery.
In one thread, you'll say how bad the game sucks and then in another thread you'll post how awesome the game is and how you can't wait to get the expansion.
Then four threads later you'll say it sucks again and then two threads later, y ou'll talk about how awesome the game is.
I cant ever figure you out.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Originally posted by scaramoosh Down in Flames What a great joke!
I think the game will be down in flames When they see what a disappointment the expansion is everyone will drop out like me Left with like 100k subs then LOL
You're also another great mystery.
In one thread, you'll say how bad the game sucks and then in another thread you'll post how awesome the game is and how you can't wait to get the expansion.
Then four threads later you'll say it sucks again and then two threads later, y ou'll talk about how awesome the game is.
Originally posted by Billius8 And, if it's true they're going to drop the inane "locked encounters" concept, then that's a big step in the right direction. There's about eight or ten major design errors that doomed this game from the start, but hey, that's what game patches are for. If they can fix them, then things can look up.
You say the locked encounters was inane, let me first completely discount this. Inane means pointless, and there are MANY points to having locked encounters. It stops power-levelling, kill stealing, training and griefing, none of which will ever be missed by me. Some people don't like locked encounters, I however do. I don't need nor want anyone to buff me or heal me while I'm fighting thank you very much, and if you wanna kill steal then I'm excruciatingly glad you don't like this game.
Secondly, I'd love to hear your list of 8 or 10 design errors that you say "doomed" this game. If it was doomed then it wouldn't be turning a profit, and it most certainly is with well over 200k subscribers. So again, you are incorrect. Just because it doesn't have a million subscribers doesn't mean a thing: No game in north america did till WoW came along, which is, in case you didn't notice, an EQ clone with saturday morning cartoon graphics based on the ultra popular Warcraft franchise.
Since launch, they have added plethora quests, mobs and area to the game; it just isn't the same game. It rewls now and I'm sorry you're going on 7 month old info, but that's your prerogative.
If I owe you the "8 or 10 design errors" or decisions, I'll give them to you, as I see them:
1) Locked encounters - destroyed immersion and community. You couldn't run by and heal or save folks that you saw were in trouble.
Destroys Immersion, not really looks like you just like to nit pick and dig for reasons to whinge!
2) Shared group exp debt - this just didn't work and folks were doubly irritated at someone who died, when before they might have felt sympathy.
Yes the concept of trying to promote players to learn the game probably is slightly above your head. This is a very light consequence compared to EQ1 and unless you die 10 x an hour the debt is never more than 1 or 2%. Doesn't take more than 10 minutes to work off.
3) No boats - enough said.
How does this affect the quality of the game?
4) Irritating NPC's (especially Freeport) - while Diablo had talking NPC's who added to the experience, EQ2's talking NPC's just won't shut-up, and many of them are rude. Playing in Freeport is irritating because most folks can only take being insulted so much before it becomes annoying. Hence, Freeport side of game is usually low in population compared to Qeynos
Not really, I find it kinda cool walking around FP and having all manner of weirdos talk to me. Would be better if we could attack them but the voice overs etc are really cool. I will concede that this is my personal opinion and may vary per gamer!
5) Instanced housing - what's the point? "If others cannot see it, it exists only to you." They should've had real plots of land with high taxes or something to maintain those plots. Folks could then walk by and admire someone's dwelling.
Ahh, there it is ... the engorged E-penis at work. Why do you care what others have? Again, how does this in any way affect gameplay or game quality?
6) Instanced zones - A good MMORPG is about folks being together, even if crowded sometimes. Instancing put everyone in their own little RPG and immersion took a big hit.
This is a pathetically bad argument and always will be. EQ 2 is hands down the best looking MMO out there and the most scaleable graphically. If that means we have to have zones then I'm in. Unless your PC is piss poor, zoning takes all of 10 seconds.
7) Isle of Refuge - in-game tutorials are generally a bad idea, especially if it is practically mandatory you go through them. Each new character becomes a tedious go-by-the-numbers-again routine which gets duller and duller each time.
Rofl, it takes about 2 hours to do IoR ... big deal!
8) Too many easy quests - Again, it's sort of a "go-by-the-numbers" routine with each character. You, as a player, may have done the same quest ten different times and when you create a new character, you feel compelled to repeat the experience because of the experience reward.
Too many Quests .... as opposed to what .... too few?
9) Too much zoning - perhaps the dev's thought Qeynos and Freeport would be so crowded that multiple zones would alleviate the lag. Perhaps true in the first month or two of gameplay. But true now? All I know is that zoning three or four times to deliver something "to and from" for a minor quest got very, very annoying.
You already whinged about zoning!
10) No unique starting racial characteristics - all races feel the same, only the graphics making any difference. Could have been improved had each race had either a minor benefit, or a major benefit offset by a weakness (i.e., humans learn skills faster, trolls get regen, but take more damage from fire attacks, etc)
Ok, that I can agree with but again its no big deal!
11) Only two starting cities - greatly limits the "new character" experience; they're all pretty much the same. Also, with the cities being opposing, there is really no sense of travelling and being a foreigner in someone else's town. A lot of fantasy fiction had characters like Conan the Barbarian travel to and live in different cultures that saw him as exotic or different. Can't really have that experience in EQ2.
Beautiful and highly detailed cities, each with about 10 sub zones, sewers, gardens etc. How much more do you need?
12) Linear zone layout - noob island to Qeynos to Antonica to Thundering Steppes. The whole game felt like an RPG adventuring track rather than a world.
Not really, its very diverse ... the more I read of your rant, the more I get the impression you never got past Lvl 20.
13) All classes play the same - for whatever reason, EQ2 decided each class needed a new ability with every level. While I can see mages having 50 spells, I cannot see warriors having 50 ways to kick someone "in the 'nads" or perform an AE attack. Was very contrived and none of the classes was very distinct from any other. All abilities sort of meshed over time.
Completely untrue and a very conclusive statement, proving that you really dont have a clue about EQ2 and are only here to put EQ2 down.
14) Heroic opportunity wheel - felt very much like playing "whack-a-mole". Just constant, frenzied button mashing which drew focus away from the action and towards the flashing buttons. Immersion took a hit as there was no real strategy to combat.
More uninformed nonsense .... there is 0 "Button Mashing" involved
I know I went over my "8 or 10", but this whole game suffers from two things:
A) The dev's focused too much on fixing perceived flaws in EQ1( i.e., camp-stealing, over-crowding of zones, kill-stealing, power-levelling through buffs, etc), and didn't realize that some of these perceived flaws actually added to the gaming experience. "Trains", for example, made dungeons doubly dangerous and exciting. EQ2 surgically removed trains by lobotomizing mobs, and immersion took a big hit.
No trains? Have you even played EQ2?
The dev's spent too much of their resources on magnificent graphics and it appears the actual game was not finished. Not enough zones, not enough content, etc.
No content? Forget I asked if you had ever played ... you obviously haven't
The most serious mistake Sony made was designing the game to draw in players other than their loyal EQ fan-base. They intended for current EQ-players to stay in EQLive. They were going to reward our years of loyal subscribership by leaving us stuck in that aging turkey of a game, and that is wrong, wrong, wrong!
No offense mate but you strike me as a guy who A : Has played very little EQ2 and B : Is a big fan of instant gratification. Don't bother to reply and tell me you have played 2000000 hours etc because if that were true you wouldn't be making the statements you are making vis a vis the game.
I am glad you enjoy WoW and would counsel you to return there immediately. Stop coming in here to spread complete falsehoods about EQ2. Are there things wrong with the game? Oh hell yes there are, but your points are definitely the rantings of a person who has played very little if at all!
S
PS : Scaramoosh, just stop talking already, with every statement you look dumber and dumber.
We can banter back and forth all day, but only the measured success of the upcoming "Down in Flames" expansion will show us for certain where this game is heading. That preorders are already bought out, as one poster noted, shows that EQ2 could see a spike in return of players. My hat off to Sony if they can pull this off.
Thank you Sharky for responding! I could literally not have said it myself and I owe you one for saving me 15 minutes of typing.
Also thanks En1gma, you would not believe how nice it is to actually have a mod that knows how fun EQ2 is now so I don't have to crusade against every misinformed post.
Bilius, EQ2 doesn't need the new expansion for it to be a success: it already is. The new expansion will solidify and expand on its kewlness and fun factor, I for one can't wait!
Originally posted by Billius8 We can banter back and forth all day, but only the measured success of the upcoming "Down in Flames" expansion will show us for certain where this game is heading. That preorders are already bought out, as one poster noted, shows that EQ2 could see a spike in return of players. My hat off to Sony if they can pull this off.
Yeah, you are right, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But what you are doing is not advertising an opinion! You, my little friend, are trolling. "Down in Flames", how incredibly witty /sarcasm off. It's very simple, the game is no WoW in terms of subs but it does have a very solid and devoted base. DoF will only solidify that fact. Add to that EQ2 is a much deeper game than many of the other MMOs out there, so for players who spend more time or who have more time it is the logical choice.
It is probably the best mix of old style MMO and the newer breed of MMO. SWG could very well have been the best if SOE hadn't f**ked it up so badly. Of course that just my opinion. EQ2, in its present state has more content than any MMO out there. Before you say anything, I agree, it didn't at launch but all that has changed. I find the guys and gals I play with are on at least 4 hours a day and most a lot more than that.
There is only really one serious complaint I could level against EQ2, you really have to give it time. When I say time I mean you must get to Level 20 or more before the game is really rewarding. If you are willing to put in that time and go the distance I would have to say that is is the single best MMO experience I have had. And for once a game that has a TON of end game content. I have been Lvl 50 for months and still raid all the time.
Originally posted by scaramoosh Cause before i never played the Expansion Now i have : Wasn't great at all.
are you referring to the test server?
That's not the official Expansion
BTW...can you throw some screenshots of your character in the Expansion part of the Test Server
(yes, I'm calling you out )
One of my pet peeves is people putting down a game (or expansion they never touched yet)
Good one En1gma lol because I have been asking this of him for a few weeks now. I remember when scara said he cancelled his account and it was at least 2 months ago.
Originally posted by En1Gma Originally posted by scaramoosh Cause before i never played the Expansion Now i have : Wasn't great at all.
are you referring to the test server?
That's not the official Expansion
BTW...can you throw some screenshots of your character in the Expansion part of the Test Server
(yes, I'm calling you out )
One of my pet peeves is people putting down a game (or expansion they never touched yet)
Heh its a good thing I read all the way to the end before posting, because I to, were going to call him out. I have no doubt in my mind that he as not played the expansion. Or he would have brought that up earlier.
Originally posted by Billius8 We can banter back and forth all day, but only the measured success of the upcoming "Down in Flames" expansion will show us for certain where this game is heading. That preorders are already bought out, as one poster noted, shows that EQ2 could see a spike in return of players. My hat off to Sony if they can pull this off.
Yeah, you are right, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But what you are doing is not advertising an opinion! You, my little friend, are trolling. "Down in Flames", how incredibly witty /sarcasm off. It's very simple, the game is no WoW in terms of subs but it does have a very solid and devoted base. DoF will only solidify that fact. Add to that EQ2 is a much deeper game than many of the other MMOs out there, so for players who spend more time or who have more time it is the logical choice. It is probably the best mix of old style MMO and the newer breed of MMO. SWG could very well have been the best if SOE hadn't f**ked it up so badly. Of course that just my opinion. EQ2, in its present state has more content than any MMO out there. Before you say anything, I agree, it didn't at launch but all that has changed. I find the guys and gals I play with are on at least 4 hours a day and most a lot more than that. There is only really one serious complaint I could level against EQ2, you really have to give it time. When I say time I mean you must get to Level 20 or more before the game is really rewarding. If you are willing to put in that time and go the distance I would have to say that is is the single best MMO experience I have had. And for once a game that has a TON of end game content. I have been Lvl 50 for months and still raid all the time. Have Fun S
If it truly has changed since release (and I played at release and again about two months ago) then that is good. Still, so much of what went awry is part of the very fabric of the design, I do not see how they can make it into a great game without some extreme rework.
But... maybe they will. I'll watch the reviews of the new expansion when it comes out and see.
Originally posted by Billius8 If it truly has changed since release (and I played at release and again about two months ago) then that is good. Still, so much of what went awry is part of the very fabric of the design, I do not see how they can make it into a great game without some extreme rework. But... maybe they will. I'll watch the reviews of the new expansion when it comes out and see.
It already is a great game.
Quick question, did you play Freeport or Qeynos? If the answer is Qeynos, the next time, if there is a next time, try playing Freeport, or vice versa. It is truly like a new game when you flip sides. Also, I never knew what the Freeport side was like and let me just say it fits me perfectly. I laugh out loud ever time I get one of the underhanded comments from the NPC's there, they really tickle me. My gf didn't like it because she thought they were mean, I just find it funny. The music and mood is much different in Freeport also, much darker and reminds me heavily of the Temple of Doom music and old movies like Sinbad the sailor that I loved so much.
I feel the need to add a little more to Sharky's comments, not to insult you Sharkypal but to show why EQ2 is the game for me over WoW. I have deleted the stuff we don't need to get to the point.
Originally posted by Sharkypal If I owe you the "8 or 10 design errors" or decisions, I'll give them to you, as I see them: 1) Locked encounters - destroyed immersion and community. You couldn't run by and heal or save folks that you saw were in trouble. Destroys Immersion, not really looks like you just like to nit pick and dig for reasons to whinge! Let me also add, with locked encounters, I never got trained by an idiot who wanted to grief. I never got kills stolen by a high level "farmer" while I was working on quest kills. I don't have to deal with mass powerleveling, keeping me from getting my fair share of the mobs. But in WoW, I dealt with those things constantly. 2) Shared group exp debt - this just didn't work and folks were doubly irritated at someone who died, when before they might have felt sympathy. Yes the concept of trying to promote players to learn the game probably is slightly above your head. This is a very light consequence compared to EQ1 and unless you die 10 x an hour the debt is never more than 1 or 2%. Doesn't take more than 10 minutes to work off. I might also like to point out, that the shared debt wasn't a bad thing. It minimized the total XP loss on Tanks specifically. If you play a tank right, you will taunt a group of overpowered mobs away from the party and lead them in a different direction. This allows the rest of the party to escape. You die but share the XP of one death. It allows smart parties to recover from an momentary lapse in judgement and allows a tank with an inexperienced group to not get left behind in the XP shuffle. Why would you try tougher mobs on, as the tank if you know you will always be the first to take a huge XP hit? 3) No boats - enough said. How does this affect the quality of the game? It affects it in no way whatsoever 4) Irritating NPC's (especially Freeport) - while Diablo had talking NPC's who added to the experience, EQ2's talking NPC's just won't shut-up, and many of them are rude. Playing in Freeport is irritating because most folks can only take being insulted so much before it becomes annoying. Hence, Freeport side of game is usually low in population compared to Qeynos Not really, I find it kinda cool walking around FP and having all manner of weirdos talk to me. Would be better if we could attack them but the voice overs etc are really cool. I will concede that this is my personal opinion and may vary per gamer! FREEPORT IS SUPPOSED TO BE FILLED WITH RUDE, INSULTING AND ANNOYING PEOPLE! I still don't know why people cry about this. I love FP and the atmosphere and I chose it because of that and the FP area seems more challenging to me. 5) Instanced housing - what's the point? "If others cannot see it, it exists only to you." They should've had real plots of land with high taxes or something to maintain those plots. Folks could then walk by and admire someone's dwelling. Ahh, there it is ... the engorged E-penis at work. Why do you care what others have? Again, how does this in any way affect gameplay or game quality? Instanced housing also removes the fight for prime real estate. SWG is a perfect example, joining the game late without instanced housing means you get piss poor choices for places to live. People can still see your house if you give them access, flash your E-penis there. 6) Instanced zones - A good MMORPG is about folks being together, even if crowded sometimes. Instancing put everyone in their own little RPG and immersion took a big hit. This is a pathetically bad argument and always will be. EQ 2 is hands down the best looking MMO out there and the most scaleable graphically. If that means we have to have zones then I'm in. Unless your PC is piss poor, zoning takes all of 10 seconds. Instanced zones by their definition, mean a single instance of a zone per individual or party. Sorry but the few instanced zones in EQ2 are done for immersion to go along with the story, just like the instanced zones in WoW (RFC for example). Where the instance is needed to give the feeling that you (and your party) are all alone in the zone. Meanwhile I like that there are various numbers of common zones because I HATE overcrowding. Like Org on the weekends in WOW, I hated that. 7) Isle of Refuge - in-game tutorials are generally a bad idea, especially if it is practically mandatory you go through them. Each new character becomes a tedious go-by-the-numbers-again routine which gets duller and duller each time. Rofl, it takes about 2 hours to do IoR ... big deal! And that is if you want to max out in IoR, which I like doing. You can get off IoR quicker than that. WoW has a similar tutorial based start to all their races and there is only three different starting points per side there. 8) Too many easy quests - Again, it's sort of a "go-by-the-numbers" routine with each character. You, as a player, may have done the same quest ten different times and when you create a new character, you feel compelled to repeat the experience because of the experience reward. Too many Quests .... as opposed to what .... too few? That is the dumbest thing I have seen posted in a long time, mutliplied by the fact the game is called Everquest, there are too many quests. As opposed to the uber popular Lack O' Quest, which is hugely popular in... nowhere. 9) Too much zoning - perhaps the dev's thought Qeynos and Freeport would be so crowded that multiple zones would alleviate the lag. Perhaps true in the first month or two of gameplay. But true now? All I know is that zoning three or four times to deliver something "to and from" for a minor quest got very, very annoying. You already whinged about zoning! Some people don't like zones, I don't mind them 10) No unique starting racial characteristics - all races feel the same, only the graphics making any difference. Could have been improved had each race had either a minor benefit, or a major benefit offset by a weakness (i.e., humans learn skills faster, trolls get regen, but take more damage from fire attacks, etc) Ok, that I can agree with but again its no big deal! Let me also add there are no useless starting racial abilities. Why would my Orc warrior in WoW need beast mastery? +5% to beasts in my command when I command none? I much prefer choosing my racial abilities as I progress, so they benefit my class and subclass vs being stuck with something that I will never use from the start. That to me ruins roleplay more than anything else. Race becomes a deciding factor in class for WoW, In EQ2 it is not and allows you to RolePlay in a ROLEPLAYING game. 11) Only two starting cities - greatly limits the "new character" experience; they're all pretty much the same. Also, with the cities being opposing, there is really no sense of travelling and being a foreigner in someone else's town. A lot of fantasy fiction had characters like Conan the Barbarian travel to and live in different cultures that saw him as exotic or different. Can't really have that experience in EQ2. Beautiful and highly detailed cities, each with about 10 sub zones, sewers, gardens etc. How much more do you need? I can say of my ten chars in EQ2 all have had differing experiences, but I will give you that the scenery is the same. Of course in WoW all roads pretty much lead to the same places there too. All my characters (Horde) Went through Org and Crossroads and and did all the same quests because those were the options. In WoW you start of more diverse but end up going down the same path with your characters. In EQ2 you may start at the same place but the options get much broader as you go down the road. This also points to the "too many quests" EQ2 has, what a bummer! 12) Linear zone layout - noob island to Qeynos to Antonica to Thundering Steppes. The whole game felt like an RPG adventuring track rather than a world. Not really, its very diverse ... the more I read of your rant, the more I get the impression you never got past Lvl 20. I think I just discussed this about WoW all roads leading through Xroads and Org, but with a lot less quests to choose from than EQ2 13) All classes play the same - for whatever reason, EQ2 decided each class needed a new ability with every level. While I can see mages having 50 spells, I cannot see warriors having 50 ways to kick someone "in the 'nads" or perform an AE attack. Was very contrived and none of the classes was very distinct from any other. All abilities sort of meshed over time. Completely untrue and a very conclusive statement, proving that you really dont have a clue about EQ2 and are only here to put EQ2 down. That is the most bogus crap I have ever heard. My Shaman plays alot differently than my Fury did at the same level and they both come from the same starting class. Let alone the differences between my Fury and my Assassin 14) Heroic opportunity wheel - felt very much like playing "whack-a-mole". Just constant, frenzied button mashing which drew focus away from the action and towards the flashing buttons. Immersion took a hit as there was no real strategy to combat. More uninformed nonsense .... there is 0 "Button Mashing" involved If you just button mash while you are trying to pull off HO's then you don't get the point. HO's when used properly solo, but specifically with a group, can be a huge deciding factor and can be catered to specific situations to some extent. I know I went over my "8 or 10", but this whole game suffers from two things: A) The dev's focused too much on fixing perceived flaws in EQ1( i.e., camp-stealing, over-crowding of zones, kill-stealing, power-levelling through buffs, etc), and didn't realize that some of these perceived flaws actually added to the gaming experience. "Trains", for example, made dungeons doubly dangerous and exciting. EQ2 surgically removed trains by lobotomizing mobs, and immersion took a big hit. No trains? Have you even played EQ2? The dev's spent too much of their resources on magnificent graphics and it appears the actual game was not finished. Not enough zones, not enough content, etc. No content? Forget I asked if you had ever played ... you obviously haven't The most serious mistake Sony made was designing the game to draw in players other than their loyal EQ fan-base. They intended for current EQ-players to stay in EQLive. They were going to reward our years of loyal subscribership by leaving us stuck in that aging turkey of a game, and that is wrong, wrong, wrong!Some of your stuff is pure opinion, and I cannot say you are wrong, only that EQ2 is wrong for you. But some of your stuff is also pure BS, so go promote WoW in the WoW forums, easy as that, you are making yourself look worse to those who know and to those who don't but read both views. Trashing a game that you dislike, in a forum designed for those who do like it, isn't a way to discourage people, they have too much ammo to shoot back. The fish are not biting here
No offense mate but you strike me as a guy who A : Has played very little EQ2 and B : Is a big fan of instant gratification. Don't bother to reply and tell me you have played 2000000 hours etc because if that were true you wouldn't be making the statements you are making vis a vis the game. I am glad you enjoy WoW and would counsel you to return there immediately. Stop coming in here to spread complete falsehoods about EQ2. Are there things wrong with the game? Oh hell yes there are, but your points are definitely the rantings of a person who has played very little if at all! S PS : Scaramoosh, just stop talking already, with every statement you look dumber and dumber.
I happen to agree with Billius about many of his points, especially those on immersion, however many of his points are very uninformed.
His top two points (which I agree with) are being taken out of the game in a few days.
Boats. I partially agree. Traveling by boat like EQ days is too big a change, but they could at least park the boats on the docks and instead of clicking a "magic bell" you talk to the captain and tell him where you want to go.
Irritating NPC's, just turn your voiceover volume off.
You can go in other people's houses/apartments. Some people (me) prefer instancing to fighting over land to build houses on. Not to mention that a large open area for housing doesn't make sense in the story of the game.
Instancing. Most of this game is not instanced in the sense that you and your group have your own zone to play in (ala guild wars). Most of the zones that are instanced are small dungeons or raid zones. Some people (me) like this because you don't have to worry about other guilds wanting to raid the same thing your guild was planning to raid etc. There are still "contested" raid mobs for those into that kind of thing.
Isle of Refuge, who cares, it takes half an hour tops.
Too many easy quests, better than not enough quests. There are challenging quests to do if what you're doing is too easy.
Too much zoning, agreed, but not a big deal. What I have a problem with is how you zone. I'd prefer invisable boundries instead of clicky things. It doesn't feel like the zones are really connected the way it's set up.
Differences between races, agreed. There's a couple things but nothing that will make someone play one race over the other.
Only two starting cities, agreed. Adds to the linear progression.
Linear zone lay out, agreed. There should be a part of Nek forest with lvl 40's, Everfrost and Lavastorm should have some yard trash in the 30's, etc. Speaking of linear and zones, Everfrost, Lavastorm, Zek, and to a lesser extent Feerrott and Enchanted Lands are so poorly designed as far as layout goes. They feel more like huge dungeons than free flowing overland zones. These zones should be more wide open like Commonlands and Antonica.
All classes don't play the same. Lots of classes are a little too similar, but they hardly all play the same.
Heroic Oppurtunies. If you're mashing buttons you're playing your class wrong.
All in all I agree that the devs carebeared the game a little too much, but not enough to keep me from playing and enjoying the game. I also think they're making changes that will help immersion whether that is their intent or not (getting rid of group debt and locked encounters).
And I don't know where you got "not enough content" from, especially comparing EQ2 to other recent MMO releases.
I happen to agree with Billius about many of his points, especially those on immersion, however many of his points are very uninformed.
His top two points (which I agree with) are being taken out of the game in a few days.
Boats. I partially agree. Traveling by boat like EQ days is too big a change, but they could at least park the boats on the docks and instead of clicking a "magic bell" you talk to the captain and tell him where you want to go.
Get a painting of a boat and look at it every time you click the bell
Irritating NPC's, just turn your voiceover volume off.
I like 'em. Lots of personality, best voice over work in recent memory.
You can go in other people's houses/apartments. Some people (me) prefer instancing to fighting over land to build houses on. Not to mention that a large open area for housing doesn't make sense in the story of the game.
That's one thing that rocks about EQ2, it's very lag free.
Instancing. Most of this game is not instanced in the sense that you and your group have your own zone to play in (ala guild wars). Most of the zones that are instanced are small dungeons or raid zones. Some people (me) like this because you don't have to worry about other guilds wanting to raid the same thing your guild was planning to raid etc. There are still "contested" raid mobs for those into that kind of thing.
It's a nice touch. You can go in one with lots of people or pick one that doesn't have as many. I could live without instancing period though.
Isle of Refuge, who cares, it takes half an hour tops.
2 hours if you're brand new.
Too many easy quests, better than not enough quests. There are challenging quests to do if what you're doing is too easy.
Yup
Too much zoning, agreed, but not a big deal. What I have a problem with is how you zone. I'd prefer invisable boundries instead of clicky things. It doesn't feel like the zones are really connected the way it's set up.
My zoning is fast and I would rather have zoning the huge ooc spams because the whole of Freeport is linked. I think some people just want attention that's why they want it all connected, but it would bring the sense of in game community more. Maybe if it had crappy graphics they could do this without much lag, but I'll take graphics for now.
Differences between races, agreed. There's a couple things but nothing that will make someone play one race over the other.
Only two starting cities, agreed. Adds to the linear progression.
They are huge though.Freeport is as big as Ogrimmar, Ironforge and the Undercity put together.
Linear zone lay out, agreed. There should be a part of Nek forest with lvl 40's, Everfrost and Lavastorm should have some yard trash in the 30's, etc. Speaking of linear and zones, Everfrost, Lavastorm, Zek, and to a lesser extent Feerrott and Enchanted Lands are so poorly designed as far as layout goes. They feel more like huge dungeons than free flowing overland zones. These zones should be more wide open like Commonlands and Antonica.
I like those ideas and they do add solo mobs a lot though.
All classes don't play the same. Lots of classes are a little too similar, but they hardly all play the same.
Heroic Oppurtunies. If you're mashing buttons you're playing your class wrong.
Exactly, it's precise button presses that win the day.
All in all I agree that the devs carebeared the game a little too much, but not enough to keep me from playing and enjoying the game. I also think they're making changes that will help immersion whether that is their intent or not (getting rid of group debt and locked encounters).
Anyone that says carebear needs to be slapped hard in the face 500 times.
And I don't know where you got "not enough content" from, especially comparing EQ2 to other recent MMO releases.
Agreed, the thing is literally brimming with content, and the stories are well written.
Nice post Knox, no game is perfect but EQ2 is suddenly addictive for me. I felt it very hard to log out tonight. Only thing I disagree with Bilius on is the very foundation of his arguements. EQ2 is a success while he keeps saying it's doomed lol its retarded. They have 280k subscribers and more all the time, and it's addictive and fun
Originally posted by Knoxay Linear zone lay out, agreed. There should be a part of Nek forest with lvl 40's, Everfrost and Lavastorm should have some yard trash in the 30's, etc. Speaking of linear and zones, Everfrost, Lavastorm, Zek, and to a lesser extent Feerrott and Enchanted Lands are so poorly designed as far as layout goes. They feel more like huge dungeons than free flowing overland zones. These zones should be more wide open like Commonlands and Antonica.
While your post is far better than Billius' post I have to address the above point as it is not the first time I have seen this argument and I dont't happen to agree with it at all. First off, there are instanced zones within Nek for 45+ (NKC : The Return). I really don't understand your gripe about the other zones feeling like dungeons. They don't. For the most part they are quite large and open. The only one that is slightly confined is LS and that is the nature of it has there are pools of Lava etc everywhere.
As for yard Areas in EF, FR and LS. No thanks. Those are High level content zones and it should stay that way. At one point in your last post you talk about disliking "carebearing" and then you talk about n00bifying the zones. Which one is it? Those zones are hard because originally an access quest was required but SOE "carebeared" that and now anyone can go there. If everyone could just go and fight anywhere in the game then what would there be to work for?
Again, it seems to me that you are a fan of the "Instant gratification" school of thought. Your post was well thought out and I do agree with some of what you said but what I have commented on here is an aspect of your post that I think is A : erroneous and B : misinformed.
Originally posted by En1Gma Still waiting on those screenies of you playing in the expansion pack, Scara....
Me too. Trouble is we won't ever get them, and remember En1gma, you deleted my post for calling him a troll because he keeps saying how he plays the game and I called him out saying he hasn't played for a long time before then. I remember when he stated cancelled his account and it was months before. He hasn't played the new expansion, he hasn't even played the game in months. I really think you should undelete my post and restore my Elite status .
That is unless we see some screenshots of his personal character playing through some part of the new expansion.
I don't see how lower level mobs in some parts of a zone is "instant gratification". Sure you can hunt in a zone earlier, but you can't hunt everywhere in the zone like you can now. As it stands, as soon as you're ready to hunt in any particular zone you're only a few levels away from being able to handle the entire zone. This means that the eastern part of Everfrost feels just like the western part, the north part of Nek forest feels just like the south part of Nek forest. Abolishing the "tier" system for zones would make them feel bigger because harder areas would truely be different than the rest of the zone.
Let me explain what I mean by zones feeling like dungeons.
Here's the western half of the commonlands:
Notice there are many routes you can take to get to different places, from different places, etc.
This is Lavastorm:
This line is the only way to travel through Lavastorm. You can deviate from the line for a little bit, but then you have to go through specific tunnels, and you have to go through Sol Ro temple. There are no alternate routes, just like a dungeon. It's the same thing for Everfrost and Zek, except they have multiple branches, but they're still linear.
Originally posted by Knoxay I don't see how lower level mobs in some parts of a zone is "instant gratification". Sure you can hunt in a zone earlier, but you can't hunt everywhere in the zone like you can now. As it stands, as soon as you're ready to hunt in any particular zone you're only a few levels away from being able to handle the entire zone. This means that the eastern part of Everfrost feels just like the western part, the north part of Nek forest feels just like the south part of Nek forest. Abolishing the "tier" system for zones would make them feel bigger because harder areas would truely be different than the rest of the zone. Let me explain what I mean by zones feeling like dungeons. Here's the western half of the commonlands: Notice there are many routes you can take to get to different places, from different places, etc. This is Lavastorm: This line is the only way to travel through Lavastorm. You can deviate from the line for a little bit, but then you have to go through specific tunnels, and you have to go through Sol Ro temple. There are no alternate routes, just like a dungeon. It's the same thing for Everfrost and Zek, except they have multiple branches, but they're still linear.
No offense but this really looks like complaining for the sake of complaining! I could start a thread with 1000 things that are wrong with EQ 2 if I tried. Instead, I just play the game!
One thing that I have realized with MMO's is (for me) that you have to be willing to improvise and compromize like anything else. I have played just about every MMO, and never been happy. And I found that it is because I went in the game un-ready for set backs (things that I didn't like). I realize now that you have to say "I'm gonna keep playing, no matter what" Like any other thing, and it worked for me.. There has been a day or two I wanted to quit, but I just stuck it out, and now im having a great time.
Originally posted by Adamska One thing that I have realized with MMO's is (for me) that you have to be willing to improvise and compromize like anything else. I have played just about every MMO, and never been happy. And I found that it is because I went in the game un-ready for set backs (things that I didn't like). I realize now that you have to say "I'm gonna keep playing, no matter what" Like any other thing, and it worked for me.. There has been a day or two I wanted to quit, but I just stuck it out, and now im having a great time.
Very true, its an approach that needs to be more widely adopted. Many people EXPECT to log in and have the best of everything in a day or two. This attitude is what leads to much unnecessary frustration.
Comments
All the classes do not play the same, AGAIN: Do not speak about this before seeing the changes... A ranger or a guardian cannot solo nearly as well as a necromancer, or conjurer.
Actually, if you go into combat with optimism and know what your doing, you dont have to "mash" keys or pay attention to flashing images... You add to the excitment with the buffs/extra damage these deliver.
I never found power-leveling with buffs exciting, took away from the experience to me. Kill stealing, wow, you must have never had this happen to you on a epic quest, or some other large kill. Overcrowding is good for no one (and if you try out the game now), you'll see that it is easy to form groups cross zone. Trains didn't make shit exciting, they were the most annoying thing ever created, and especially when ppl did it purposely.
Instead of writing about what is wrong (and isn't anymore) Try it out, read the forums... Check it out.
Make your posts more... Entertaining as well.
You're also another great mystery.
In one thread, you'll say how bad the game sucks and then in another thread you'll post how awesome the game is and how you can't wait to get the expansion.
Then four threads later you'll say it sucks again and then two threads later, y ou'll talk about how awesome the game is.
I cant ever figure you out.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
You're also another great mystery.
In one thread, you'll say how bad the game sucks and then in another thread you'll post how awesome the game is and how you can't wait to get the expansion.
Then four threads later you'll say it sucks again and then two threads later, y ou'll talk about how awesome the game is.
I cant ever figure you out.
Cause before i never played the Expansion
Now i have :
Wasn't great at all.
---------------------------------------------
Don't click here...no2
You say the locked encounters was inane, let me first completely discount this. Inane means pointless, and there are MANY points to having locked encounters. It stops power-levelling, kill stealing, training and griefing, none of which will ever be missed by me. Some people don't like locked encounters, I however do. I don't need nor want anyone to buff me or heal me while I'm fighting thank you very much, and if you wanna kill steal then I'm excruciatingly glad you don't like this game.
Secondly, I'd love to hear your list of 8 or 10 design errors that you say "doomed" this game. If it was doomed then it wouldn't be turning a profit, and it most certainly is with well over 200k subscribers. So again, you are incorrect. Just because it doesn't have a million subscribers doesn't mean a thing: No game in north america did till WoW came along, which is, in case you didn't notice, an EQ clone with saturday morning cartoon graphics based on the ultra popular Warcraft franchise.
Since launch, they have added plethora quests, mobs and area to the game; it just isn't the same game. It rewls now and I'm sorry you're going on 7 month old info, but that's your prerogative.
If I owe you the "8 or 10 design errors" or decisions, I'll give them to you, as I see them:
1) Locked encounters - destroyed immersion and community. You couldn't run by and heal or save folks that you saw were in trouble.
Destroys Immersion, not really looks like you just like to nit pick and dig for reasons to whinge!
2) Shared group exp debt - this just didn't work and folks were doubly irritated at someone who died, when before they might have felt sympathy.
Yes the concept of trying to promote players to learn the game probably is slightly above your head. This is a very light consequence compared to EQ1 and unless you die 10 x an hour the debt is never more than 1 or 2%. Doesn't take more than 10 minutes to work off.
3) No boats - enough said.
How does this affect the quality of the game?
4) Irritating NPC's (especially Freeport) - while Diablo had talking NPC's who added to the experience, EQ2's talking NPC's just won't shut-up, and many of them are rude. Playing in Freeport is irritating because most folks can only take being insulted so much before it becomes annoying. Hence, Freeport side of game is usually low in population compared to Qeynos
Not really, I find it kinda cool walking around FP and having all manner of weirdos talk to me. Would be better if we could attack them but the voice overs etc are really cool. I will concede that this is my personal opinion and may vary per gamer!
5) Instanced housing - what's the point? "If others cannot see it, it exists only to you." They should've had real plots of land with high taxes or something to maintain those plots. Folks could then walk by and admire someone's dwelling.
Ahh, there it is ... the engorged E-penis at work. Why do you care what others have? Again, how does this in any way affect gameplay or game quality?
6) Instanced zones - A good MMORPG is about folks being together, even if crowded sometimes. Instancing put everyone in their own little RPG and immersion took a big hit.
This is a pathetically bad argument and always will be. EQ 2 is hands down the best looking MMO out there and the most scaleable graphically. If that means we have to have zones then I'm in. Unless your PC is piss poor, zoning takes all of 10 seconds.
7) Isle of Refuge - in-game tutorials are generally a bad idea, especially if it is practically mandatory you go through them. Each new character becomes a tedious go-by-the-numbers-again routine which gets duller and duller each time.
Rofl, it takes about 2 hours to do IoR ... big deal!
8) Too many easy quests - Again, it's sort of a "go-by-the-numbers" routine with each character. You, as a player, may have done the same quest ten different times and when you create a new character, you feel compelled to repeat the experience because of the experience reward.
Too many Quests .... as opposed to what .... too few?
9) Too much zoning - perhaps the dev's thought Qeynos and Freeport would be so crowded that multiple zones would alleviate the lag. Perhaps true in the first month or two of gameplay. But true now? All I know is that zoning three or four times to deliver something "to and from" for a minor quest got very, very annoying.
You already whinged about zoning!
10) No unique starting racial characteristics - all races feel the same, only the graphics making any difference. Could have been improved had each race had either a minor benefit, or a major benefit offset by a weakness (i.e., humans learn skills faster, trolls get regen, but take more damage from fire attacks, etc)
Ok, that I can agree with but again its no big deal!
11) Only two starting cities - greatly limits the "new character" experience; they're all pretty much the same. Also, with the cities being opposing, there is really no sense of travelling and being a foreigner in someone else's town. A lot of fantasy fiction had characters like Conan the Barbarian travel to and live in different cultures that saw him as exotic or different. Can't really have that experience in EQ2.
Beautiful and highly detailed cities, each with about 10 sub zones, sewers, gardens etc. How much more do you need?
12) Linear zone layout - noob island to Qeynos to Antonica to Thundering Steppes. The whole game felt like an RPG adventuring track rather than a world.
Not really, its very diverse ... the more I read of your rant, the more I get the impression you never got past Lvl 20.
13) All classes play the same - for whatever reason, EQ2 decided each class needed a new ability with every level. While I can see mages having 50 spells, I cannot see warriors having 50 ways to kick someone "in the 'nads" or perform an AE attack. Was very contrived and none of the classes was very distinct from any other. All abilities sort of meshed over time.
Completely untrue and a very conclusive statement, proving that you really dont have a clue about EQ2 and are only here to put EQ2 down.
14) Heroic opportunity wheel - felt very much like playing "whack-a-mole". Just constant, frenzied button mashing which drew focus away from the action and towards the flashing buttons. Immersion took a hit as there was no real strategy to combat.
More uninformed nonsense .... there is 0 "Button Mashing" involved
I know I went over my "8 or 10", but this whole game suffers from two things:
A) The dev's focused too much on fixing perceived flaws in EQ1( i.e., camp-stealing, over-crowding of zones, kill-stealing, power-levelling through buffs, etc), and didn't realize that some of these perceived flaws actually added to the gaming experience. "Trains", for example, made dungeons doubly dangerous and exciting. EQ2 surgically removed trains by lobotomizing mobs, and immersion took a big hit.
No trains? Have you even played EQ2?
No content? Forget I asked if you had ever played ... you obviously haven't
The most serious mistake Sony made was designing the game to draw in players other than their loyal EQ fan-base. They intended for current EQ-players to stay in EQLive. They were going to reward our years of loyal subscribership by leaving us stuck in that aging turkey of a game, and that is wrong, wrong, wrong!
No offense mate but you strike me as a guy who A : Has played very little EQ2 and B : Is a big fan of instant gratification. Don't bother to reply and tell me you have played 2000000 hours etc because if that were true you wouldn't be making the statements you are making vis a vis the game.
I am glad you enjoy WoW and would counsel you to return there immediately. Stop coming in here to spread complete falsehoods about EQ2. Are there things wrong with the game? Oh hell yes there are, but your points are definitely the rantings of a person who has played very little if at all!
S
PS : Scaramoosh, just stop talking already, with every statement you look dumber and dumber.
Thank you Sharky for responding! I could literally not have said it myself and I owe you one for saving me 15 minutes of typing.
Also thanks En1gma, you would not believe how nice it is to actually have a mod that knows how fun EQ2 is now so I don't have to crusade against every misinformed post.
Bilius, EQ2 doesn't need the new expansion for it to be a success: it already is. The new expansion will solidify and expand on its kewlness and fun factor, I for one can't wait!
are you referring to the test server?
That's not the official Expansion
BTW...can you throw some screenshots of your character in the Expansion part of the Test Server
(yes, I'm calling you out
)
One of my pet peeves is people putting down a game (or expansion they never touched yet)
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
are you referring to the test server?
That's not the official Expansion
BTW...can you throw some screenshots of your character in the Expansion part of the Test Server
(yes, I'm calling you out
)
One of my pet peeves is people putting down a game (or expansion they never touched yet)
are you referring to the test server?
That's not the official Expansion
BTW...can you throw some screenshots of your character in the Expansion part of the Test Server
(yes, I'm calling you out
)
One of my pet peeves is people putting down a game (or expansion they never touched yet)
Heh its a good thing I read all the way to the end before posting, because I to, were going to call him out. I have no doubt in my mind that he as not played the expansion. Or he would have brought that up earlier.
If it truly has changed since release (and I played at release and again about two months ago) then that is good. Still, so much of what went awry is part of the very fabric of the design, I do not see how they can make it into a great game without some extreme rework.
But... maybe they will. I'll watch the reviews of the new expansion when it comes out and see.
It already is a great game.
Quick question, did you play Freeport or Qeynos? If the answer is Qeynos, the next time, if there is a next time, try playing Freeport, or vice versa. It is truly like a new game when you flip sides. Also, I never knew what the Freeport side was like and let me just say it fits me perfectly. I laugh out loud ever time I get one of the underhanded comments from the NPC's there, they really tickle me. My gf didn't like it because she thought they were mean, I just find it funny. The music and mood is much different in Freeport also, much darker and reminds me heavily of the Temple of Doom music and old movies like Sinbad the sailor that I loved so much.
EDIT: spelling
I feel the need to add a little more to Sharky's comments, not to insult you Sharkypal but to show why EQ2 is the game for me over WoW. I have deleted the stuff we don't need to get to the point.
I couldn't have said that part any better!I happen to agree with Billius about many of his points, especially those on immersion, however many of his points are very uninformed.
His top two points (which I agree with) are being taken out of the game in a few days.
Boats. I partially agree. Traveling by boat like EQ days is too big a change, but they could at least park the boats on the docks and instead of clicking a "magic bell" you talk to the captain and tell him where you want to go.
Irritating NPC's, just turn your voiceover volume off.
You can go in other people's houses/apartments. Some people (me) prefer instancing to fighting over land to build houses on. Not to mention that a large open area for housing doesn't make sense in the story of the game.
Instancing. Most of this game is not instanced in the sense that you and your group have your own zone to play in (ala guild wars). Most of the zones that are instanced are small dungeons or raid zones. Some people (me) like this because you don't have to worry about other guilds wanting to raid the same thing your guild was planning to raid etc. There are still "contested" raid mobs for those into that kind of thing.
Isle of Refuge, who cares, it takes half an hour tops.
Too many easy quests, better than not enough quests. There are challenging quests to do if what you're doing is too easy.
Too much zoning, agreed, but not a big deal. What I have a problem with is how you zone. I'd prefer invisable boundries instead of clicky things. It doesn't feel like the zones are really connected the way it's set up.
Differences between races, agreed. There's a couple things but nothing that will make someone play one race over the other.
Only two starting cities, agreed. Adds to the linear progression.
Linear zone lay out, agreed. There should be a part of Nek forest with lvl 40's, Everfrost and Lavastorm should have some yard trash in the 30's, etc. Speaking of linear and zones, Everfrost, Lavastorm, Zek, and to a lesser extent Feerrott and Enchanted Lands are so poorly designed as far as layout goes. They feel more like huge dungeons than free flowing overland zones. These zones should be more wide open like Commonlands and Antonica.
All classes don't play the same. Lots of classes are a little too similar, but they hardly all play the same.
Heroic Oppurtunies. If you're mashing buttons you're playing your class wrong.
All in all I agree that the devs carebeared the game a little too much, but not enough to keep me from playing and enjoying the game. I also think they're making changes that will help immersion whether that is their intent or not (getting rid of group debt and locked encounters).
And I don't know where you got "not enough content" from, especially comparing EQ2 to other recent MMO releases.
Still waiting on those screenies of you playing in the expansion pack, Scara....
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Me too. Trouble is we won't ever get them, and remember En1gma, you deleted my post for calling him a troll because he keeps saying how he plays the game and I called him out saying he hasn't played for a long time before then. I remember when he stated cancelled his account and it was months before. He hasn't played the new expansion, he hasn't even played the game in months. I really think you should undelete my post and restore my Elite status
That is unless we see some screenshots of his personal character playing through some part of the new expansion.
I don't see how lower level mobs in some parts of a zone is "instant gratification". Sure you can hunt in a zone earlier, but you can't hunt everywhere in the zone like you can now. As it stands, as soon as you're ready to hunt in any particular zone you're only a few levels away from being able to handle the entire zone. This means that the eastern part of Everfrost feels just like the western part, the north part of Nek forest feels just like the south part of Nek forest. Abolishing the "tier" system for zones would make them feel bigger because harder areas would truely be different than the rest of the zone.
Let me explain what I mean by zones feeling like dungeons.
Here's the western half of the commonlands:
Notice there are many routes you can take to get to different places, from different places, etc.
This is Lavastorm:
This line is the only way to travel through Lavastorm. You can deviate from the line for a little bit, but then you have to go through specific tunnels, and you have to go through Sol Ro temple. There are no alternate routes, just like a dungeon. It's the same thing for Everfrost and Zek, except they have multiple branches, but they're still linear.
One thing that I have realized with MMO's is (for me) that you have to be willing to improvise and compromize like anything else. I have played just about every MMO, and never been happy. And I found that it is because I went in the game un-ready for set backs (things that I didn't like). I realize now that you have to say "I'm gonna keep playing, no matter what" Like any other thing, and it worked for me.. There has been a day or two I wanted to quit, but I just stuck it out, and now im having a great time.