So how is combat done right and when is your game with combat done right going to launch?
I agree it could have been done diffrently, and there is room for improvement...i like the way the combat in the game has a distinct feel to it, gives the game its own flavor. Certainly doesnt feel like your typical wow-park combat, despite being more like it than not.
I agree. I like the combat, and think the skill wheel shows great potential for some interesting tactics and synergies. It definiltely has a distinctive feel to it.
I like TSW's combat better than GW2's and I've played both. I'd never have the gall to say ANet did combat wrong, but rather concede that it's not my style.
The thing with the gear progression is that it stops it's vertical progression in power relatively quickly (QL 10 purple gear) and after that it advances horizontally with more specialized gear to manage the hardest difficulty of the dungeons.
Regarding the abilities, it's a goal of the ability system to keep all the abilities at the same power level. Just like in Diablo 3, they will probably have some abilities that are better than others, but it might be the first ability you get.
What takes time with the ability system is getting the "perfect" build(s), since you probably need actives from two weapons and might need a elite passive from the outer wheel of a third weapon. (Passives aren't connected to weapon choice 95% of the time).
The horizontal progression makes the game functionally different a typical level based system, even if it has a core of vertical progression which as you state matches a level based system.
In other words, about 1/3 of the way to what you would have called "max level" your abilities and skills will be as powerful as a character with all the abilities and skills. The difference is in the flexibility of the character that's maxed out, but he can only bring one build to each fight, so for PvP they should be pretty equal.
I have noticed that even though I have many tier 3 abilities unlocked in the elemental "tree", there is not necessarily an advantage to them. In fact, as you point out, sometimes using tier 1 abilities have more advantage than supposedly "better" skills depending on what passives you choose.
For people that like to tinker with such things, I suspect that it will be interesting, though I question what is the point of unlocking so many skills when you may find that a percentage of them are not useful (what percentage is unclear). And is there actually enough content to unlock the full wheel or are they depending on repeatable quests and grinding dungeons?
What I do have a problem with in the combat system is that it is resource-based. I know this is a preference, but I hate using builders to stack points. Absolutely hate it. And despite so many talents, it seems that the need to ensure balance has made many of the talents seem rather generic no matter what weapon you initially specilize it. So if you are dps, you end up with one or two builders, a medium power attack, one aoe, one finisher, one snare/root elite and one thing that can apply a condition or a buff. And the variation between all of these things on the trees SEEMS rather minimal (though I do not claim to be an expert on the skill wheel). I am using primarily elemental/shotgun.
In the end I am left with combat that to me feels rather generic with a lot of builder spamming, but maybe that's my problem and not the game's. I played WoW for far too many years and so this combat feels exactly like a throwback to that (TO ME). And as of right now, I don't see an active dodge in the game, maybe this would help, maybe not.
But given the density of mobs throughout the game, I find that combat interferes with what could be a rather enjoyable experience. There are just a TON of trash mobs standing around (with some limited patrolling). Frankly I think this would have made a kickass single-player game if they made combat more rare and more "survival-horror" based but I guess they want the recurring revenue.
Other people will like the combat for what it is, and we have not yet seen the final product, so we'll see what they modify over the next month.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
I mean it's one thing to compare the two systems and decide which one you like better, but to say that one is wrong and one is right is pretty closed minded.
TSW is a different game for many reasons. There may be some crossover in the audiences, but TSW appeals to people for entirely different reasons than GW 2.
We get it, you love GW 2 combat. That's great. You have a game that provides what you want. For many of us TSW provides things that we want which cant be easily found elsewhere.
Some people (like myself) are so sick of high fantasy that we barely give it a chance. Some people want skill (skills you use not your own player skill) based progression.
Would TSW benefit from gw2 or Tera style combat? Possibly. Im all for action combat, in fact I greatly prefer Fps combat to rpg combat. That doesn't mean that GW or Tera are suddenly able to overcome my dislikes about the game.
I know, it's hard to understand, but TSW really does appeal to a certain audience of players. It may not have the mass market appeal of GW2, but there is an audience for this game.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's "wrong." it's not "right" for everyone but this game strikes a chord with many of us for reasons that I don't think some of you will ever understand.
Here's a tip: if this game doesn't have what you want out of an mmo, then don't buy it. Simple as that. You don't have to waste another second thinking about it.
Play what you like and what is appealing to you. That's what those of us who choose (and stay with) TSW will be doing. I can honestly say that there is not another rpg on the market that offers everything TSW does in one package.
Compared to Guild Wars 2 combat, I can only say that the combat in TSW leaves much to be desired. For example, take a look at this footage of a hammer warrior. If you look at it objectively and disregard the music and PvP scenario, you can tell that: not only are the animations better in Guild Wars 2, but the sounds and effects deliver impact whereas TSW is sorely lacking in these departments.
What are your thoughts?
I don't see the combat as gamebreaking or unbearable. It does appear to lack impact, as the video suggested. Guild Wars 2 focuses on combat - it's one of its best features. As I understand, this game focuses more on quests, skill leveling, story and the overall world. It shows promise.
Ok, watched more of the video. What concerns me about it is the slowness of the animations in relation to the skill activation. If this game is anything like LoTRO, in combat, I will not play it. I will wait to try this one before I buy it.
Originally posted by dubyahite Why mist this be TSW bs GW 2?
The game's are very very different.
I mean it's one thing to compare the two systems and decide which one you like better, but to say that one is wrong and one is right is pretty closed minded.
If I see something that's bad (TSW combat) and I say that it's been done wrong, then I don't see it as necessarily close-minded if I can show you better ways / examples that it can be done. Sure, personal preferences and beliefs should be considered, too. I can also tell you that abortion, euthanasia, and other things are wrong (with exceptions) and those are just my beliefs. That's why I'm asking peoples' thoughts. However, I think we can agree that combat in TSW, while serviceable, is underwhelming.
TSW is a different game for many reasons. There may be some crossover in the audiences, but TSW appeals to people for entirely different reasons than GW 2.
We get it, you love GW 2 combat. That's great. You have a game that provides what you want. For many of us TSW provides things that we want which cant be easily found elsewhere.
I was only talking about the combat, but I can tell you that I'm really into the idea of popular horror culture in a MMO provided that the execution and atmosphere of the game is done well.
Some people (like myself) are so sick of high fantasy that we barely give it a chance. Some people want skill (skills you use not your own player skill) based progression.
Would TSW benefit from gw2 or Tera style combat? Possibly. Im all for action combat, in fact I greatly prefer Fps combat to rpg combat. That doesn't mean that GW or Tera are suddenly able to overcome my dislikes about the game.
I know, it's hard to understand, but TSW really does appeal to a certain audience of players. It may not have the mass market appeal of GW2, but there is an audience for this game.
I don't see how it's hard to understand.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's "wrong." it's not "right" for everyone but this game strikes a chord with many of us for reasons that I don't think some of you will ever understand.
Good for you if you're fine with how the combat is in TSW.
Here's a tip: if this game doesn't have what you want out of an mmo, then don't buy it. Simple as that. You don't have to waste another second thinking about it.
It's exactly this kind of thought that reminds me of people saying: "If you don't like it here, then leave." Is it somehow a taboo to talk about what bothers you? Is it wrong to talk about what's on my mind? How is it any different to tell a gamer to stop voicing his/her opinions and not buy a game? Why are you discouraging other gamers to 'stop thinking,' when thinking about a game is actually the best thing a gamer can possibly do. I'm sure there are games you dislike for very good reasons. I'm sure that there are games that you absolutely love. And, I'm sure that there are games that you absolutely love, but have very specific flaws that you wish were done better. I see myself as part of the 3rd group as I love new ideas in the MMO genre, but there are definitely aspects of TSW that are holding it back (just like how there are aspects of GW2 that are holding it back).
Play what you like and what is appealing to you. That's what those of us who choose (and stay with) TSW will be doing. I can honestly say that there is not another rpg on the market that offers everything TSW does in one package.
I think you're just making too many assumptions and your tip isn't very healthy.
Compared to Guild Wars 2 combat, I can only say that the combat in TSW leaves much to be desired. For example, take a look at this footage of a hammer warrior. If you look at it objectively and disregard the music and PvP scenario, you can tell that: not only are the animations better in Guild Wars 2, but the sounds and effects deliver impact whereas TSW is sorely lacking in these departments.
What are your thoughts?
I don't see the combat as gamebreaking or unbearable. It does appear to lack impact, as the video suggested. Guild Wars 2 focuses on combat - it's one of its best features. As I understand, this game focuses more on quests, skill leveling, story and the overall world. It shows promise.
Ok, watched more of the video. What concerns me about it is the slowness of the animations in relation to the skill activation. If this game is anything like LoTRO, in combat, I will not play it. I will wait to try this one before I buy it.
LOTRO is like TERA when compared to TSW , seriously. And I thought LOTRO combat animations were sluggish at best , they seem speedy and combat fluid compared to TSW - its going to get raped in most reviews at release for its overall combat.
Compared to Guild Wars 2 combat, I can only say that the combat in TSW leaves much to be desired. For example, take a look at this footage of a hammer warrior. If you look at it objectively and disregard the music and PvP scenario, you can tell that: not only are the animations better in Guild Wars 2, but the sounds and effects deliver impact whereas TSW is sorely lacking in these departments.
What are your thoughts?
You compare that GW2 video to the training room in TSW? lmao.
Compared to Guild Wars 2 combat, I can only say that the combat in TSW leaves much to be desired. For example, take a look at this footage of a hammer warrior. If you look at it objectively and disregard the music and PvP scenario, you can tell that: not only are the animations better in Guild Wars 2, but the sounds and effects deliver impact whereas TSW is sorely lacking in these departments.
What are your thoughts?
You compare that GW2 video to the training room in TSW? lmao.
You seen 18 out of 500+ TSW abilities.
If your point is that we've only seen 18 skills from the TSW video, keep in mind that you can only have 10 skills on your skill bar in GW2, which is all that we can see from the warrior video. Also, saying that there are more skills to be seen doesn't necessarily make up for the 18 skills that have poor animations / sound effects / feel to them. Let's just say that I hope, in later levels, combat isn't as underwhelming as what TB has shown us (part 4 also shows abysmal combat).
I'm pretty sad. Made a bet with a friend that TSW would last longer before the cycle of troll-targeting / fanboism kicked into gear. $5 have been lost this day.
Anticipate a great flood of trolls that wage a great flame war on anything related to this game, all the while proclaiming the other best thing since sliced bread, and then the coming of those who believe this game is the Ark. Personally, I couldn't give a damn about either of them, so I WAIT UNTIL AFTER THE GAME COMES OUT BEFORE CRITIQUING IT.
I'm really sick of the whole "There's a massive fanbase for X", or "Y would be a WoW-killer if it just had a chance".
There is no massive conspiracy waiting in the MMO playerbase.
There are no "sleeper-agent fans" waiting to convert once the X or Y is unleashed on the world.
Compared to Guild Wars 2 combat, I can only say that the combat in TSW leaves much to be desired. For example, take a look at this footage of a hammer warrior. If you look at it objectively and disregard the music and PvP scenario, you can tell that: not only are the animations better in Guild Wars 2, but the sounds and effects deliver impact whereas TSW is sorely lacking in these departments.
What are your thoughts?
You compare that GW2 video to the training room in TSW? lmao.
You seen 18 out of 500+ TSW abilities.
If your point is that we've only seen 18 skills from the TSW video, keep in mind that you can only have 10 skills on your skill bar in GW2, which is all that we can see from the warrior video. Also, saying that there are more skills to be seen doesn't necessarily make up for the 18 skills that have poor animations / sound effects / feel to them. Let's just say that I hope, in later levels, combat isn't as underwhelming as what TB has shown us (part 4 also shows abysmal combat).
In the training room you have two abilities to try out. That's it. How visceral can hitting training dummies with two abilites be?
I suggest to just wait till the next open beta when the latest beta patches presumably will have been installed, and see for yourself then if it's acceptable for you personally or not.
Compared to Guild Wars 2 combat, I can only say that the combat in TSW leaves much to be desired. For example, take a look at this footage of a hammer warrior. If you look at it objectively and disregard the music and PvP scenario, you can tell that: not only are the animations better in Guild Wars 2, but the sounds and effects deliver impact whereas TSW is sorely lacking in these departments.
What are your thoughts?
You compare that GW2 video to the training room in TSW? lmao.
You seen 18 out of 500+ TSW abilities.
If your point is that we've only seen 18 skills from the TSW video, keep in mind that you can only have 10 skills on your skill bar in GW2, which is all that we can see from the warrior video. Also, saying that there are more skills to be seen doesn't necessarily make up for the 18 skills that have poor animations / sound effects / feel to them. Let's just say that I hope, in later levels, combat isn't as underwhelming as what TB has shown us (part 4 also shows abysmal combat).
In the training room you have two abilities to try out. That's it. How visceral can hitting training dummies with two abilites be?
That's a fair point. But, it would be a better point if these 2 starter abilities didn't look and feel so horrible.
Compared to Guild Wars 2 combat, I can only say that the combat in TSW leaves much to be desired. For example, take a look at this footage of a hammer warrior. If you look at it objectively and disregard the music and PvP scenario, you can tell that: not only are the animations better in Guild Wars 2, but the sounds and effects deliver impact whereas TSW is sorely lacking in these departments.
What are your thoughts?
You compare that GW2 video to the training room in TSW? lmao.
You seen 18 out of 500+ TSW abilities.
If your point is that we've only seen 18 skills from the TSW video, keep in mind that you can only have 10 skills on your skill bar in GW2, which is all that we can see from the warrior video. Also, saying that there are more skills to be seen doesn't necessarily make up for the 18 skills that have poor animations / sound effects / feel to them. Let's just say that I hope, in later levels, combat isn't as underwhelming as what TB has shown us (part 4 also shows abysmal combat).
In the training room you have two abilities to try out. That's it. How visceral can hitting training dummies with two abilites be?
That's a fair point. But, it would be a better point if these 2 starter abilities didn't look and feel so horrible.
Actually, when you select a weapon you get enough AP to buy a third ability.
Regarding combat, there is no reason to stand still instead of kiteing and secondly you can get a lot more movement based abilities as you go and they are adding dodging. What you see from TB is not how the game is ment to be played, he is fumbling around.
Compared to Guild Wars 2 combat, I can only say that the combat in TSW leaves much to be desired. For example, take a look at this footage of a hammer warrior. If you look at it objectively and disregard the music and PvP scenario, you can tell that: not only are the animations better in Guild Wars 2, but the sounds and effects deliver impact whereas TSW is sorely lacking in these departments.
What are your thoughts?
You compare that GW2 video to the training room in TSW? lmao.
You seen 18 out of 500+ TSW abilities.
If your point is that we've only seen 18 skills from the TSW video, keep in mind that you can only have 10 skills on your skill bar in GW2, which is all that we can see from the warrior video. Also, saying that there are more skills to be seen doesn't necessarily make up for the 18 skills that have poor animations / sound effects / feel to them. Let's just say that I hope, in later levels, combat isn't as underwhelming as what TB has shown us (part 4 also shows abysmal combat).
In the training room you have two abilities to try out. That's it. How visceral can hitting training dummies with two abilites be?
That's a fair point. But, it would be a better point if these 2 starter abilities didn't look and feel so horrible.
Actually, when you select a weapon you get enough AP to buy a third ability.
Regarding combat, there is no reason to stand still instead of kiteing and secondly you can get a lot more movement based abilities as you go and they are adding dodging. What you see from TB is not how the game is ment to be played, he is fumbling around.
Can you link a video of good, talented combat? I can't find one.
Actually, when you select a weapon you get enough AP to buy a third ability.
Regarding combat, there is no reason to stand still instead of kiteing and secondly you can get a lot more movement based abilities as you go and they are adding dodging. What you see from TB is not how the game is ment to be played, he is fumbling around.
Can you link a video of good, talented combat? I can't find one.
No, those players are in the closed beta which has an NDA...
Actually, when you select a weapon you get enough AP to buy a third ability.
Regarding combat, there is no reason to stand still instead of kiteing and secondly you can get a lot more movement based abilities as you go and they are adding dodging. What you see from TB is not how the game is ment to be played, he is fumbling around.
Can you link a video of good, talented combat? I can't find one.
No, those players are in the closed beta which has an NDA...
I have played both and like the feel of TSW's combat better than GW2's. GW2's combat feels old and stale, I have played GW2's combat style since 1999. It will be a muchly needed refreshing change to play TSW combat as it is not done in every mmo.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
Actually, when you select a weapon you get enough AP to buy a third ability.
Regarding combat, there is no reason to stand still instead of kiteing and secondly you can get a lot more movement based abilities as you go and they are adding dodging. What you see from TB is not how the game is ment to be played, he is fumbling around.
Can you link a video of good, talented combat? I can't find one.
No, those players are in the closed beta which has an NDA...
lol
Ey, it's my honest opinion! The devs could probably show us good combat, but they are usually playing with the press and have OP characters so they can help the press so they can get past the first encounter in the dungeons. Looking at TB and other members of the press play is usually just painful.
Personally I don't like how they have put so simple abilities at the start of the game, since it gives the wrong impression about combat complexity. At the same time, I can understand why they have done it. They want to let people get used to the system before throwing them into the deep end.
We might see some more interesting videos when it comes to combat in the third and fourth beta weekend, but it depends if we get somebody skilled, have played the previous beta weekends to level up that actually streams. Otherwise we will see the same 1-2-3 pressing noob combat again.
Compared to Guild Wars 2 combat, I can only say that the combat in TSW leaves much to be desired. For example, take a look at this footage of a hammer warrior. If you look at it objectively and disregard the music and PvP scenario, you can tell that: not only are the animations better in Guild Wars 2, but the sounds and effects deliver impact whereas TSW is sorely lacking in these departments.
What are your thoughts?
You compare that GW2 video to the training room in TSW? lmao.
You seen 18 out of 500+ TSW abilities.
If your point is that we've only seen 18 skills from the TSW video, keep in mind that you can only have 10 skills on your skill bar in GW2, which is all that we can see from the warrior video. Also, saying that there are more skills to be seen doesn't necessarily make up for the 18 skills that have poor animations / sound effects / feel to them. Let's just say that I hope, in later levels, combat isn't as underwhelming as what TB has shown us (part 4 also shows abysmal combat).
In the training room you have two abilities to try out. That's it. How visceral can hitting training dummies with two abilites be?
That's a fair point. But, it would be a better point if these 2 starter abilities didn't look and feel so horrible.
Actually, when you select a weapon you get enough AP to buy a third ability.
Regarding combat, there is no reason to stand still instead of kiteing and secondly you can get a lot more movement based abilities as you go and they are adding dodging. What you see from TB is not how the game is ment to be played, he is fumbling around.
Can you link a video of good, talented combat? I can't find one.
I could show you hours of QL10 (top gear) PvP video but I can't because of the NDA, you will see it sooner or later. Mobility is key, even in PvE. If you stand around like that video of GW2, you will die. Course you also need to be careful when you move around in combat cause there is always another nasty you can atract the attention of in PvE.
I was just looking at a blog about the GW2 skill/trait system. It seemed so restrictive compared to TSW's. So many "If you choose this, you can pick from these." type statements. In TSW it's "Here are 525 abilities, earn points, unlock whatever you want" Here's the quote in particular that got me to thinking.
"Again, having more options to create a build that suits your play style only further raises the skill ceiling in both PvP and PVE gameplay."
According to their own words on what further raises the skill ceiling. TSW's skill ceiling is much higher. Having a possible 525 abilities at you control and no predetermined way in which you gain those abilities makes for some incredible stratigic pvp. 150 minimum, possible 300 unique characters in Fusang is going to absolutely nuts.
Once NDA is lifted people will be able to see the full breathe of the TSW combat system.
I was just looking at a blog about the GW2 skill/trait system. It seemed so restrictive compared to TSW's. So many "If you choose this, you can pick from these." type statements. In TSW it's "Here are 525 abilities, earn points, unlock whatever you want" Here's the quote in particular that got me to thinking.
"Again, having more options to create a build that suits your play style only further raises the skill ceiling in both PvP and PVE gameplay."
According to their own words on what further raises the skill ceiling. TSW's skill ceiling is much higher. Having a possible 525 abilities at you control and no predetermined way in which you gain those abilities makes for some incredible stratigic pvp. 150 minimum, possible 300 unique characters in Fusang is going to absolutely nuts.
Once NDA is lifted people will be able to see the full breathe of the TSW combat system.
that's not how it works at all sorry...
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I was just looking at a blog about the GW2 skill/trait system. It seemed so restrictive compared to TSW's. So many "If you choose this, you can pick from these." type statements. In TSW it's "Here are 525 abilities, earn points, unlock whatever you want" Here's the quote in particular that got me to thinking.
"Again, having more options to create a build that suits your play style only further raises the skill ceiling in both PvP and PVE gameplay."
According to their own words on what further raises the skill ceiling. TSW's skill ceiling is much higher. Having a possible 525 abilities at you control and no predetermined way in which you gain those abilities makes for some incredible stratigic pvp. 150 minimum, possible 300 unique characters in Fusang is going to absolutely nuts.
Once NDA is lifted people will be able to see the full breathe of the TSW combat system.
that's not how it works at all sorry...
Yeah, I wonder if some of these heralds have even played the game? You cant even mix and match 525 skills because you are limited to two weapons at a time. You can put whatever passives you want on as well, but most are linked to certain weapon types and are fairly useless with the wrong weapon.
Its not as diverse as they seem to think.
Regarding the actual point of the thread, yeah the animations need work in TSW. They just dont look like convincing combat animations, which is strange because they did such a good job with Age of Conan.
Compared to Guild Wars 2 combat, I can only say that the combat in TSW leaves much to be desired. For example, take a look at this footage of a hammer warrior. If you look at it objectively and disregard the music and PvP scenario, you can tell that: not only are the animations better in Guild Wars 2, but the sounds and effects deliver impact whereas TSW is sorely lacking in these departments.
What are your thoughts?
You compare that GW2 video to the training room in TSW? lmao.
You seen 18 out of 500+ TSW abilities.
If your point is that we've only seen 18 skills from the TSW video, keep in mind that you can only have 10 skills on your skill bar in GW2, which is all that we can see from the warrior video. Also, saying that there are more skills to be seen doesn't necessarily make up for the 18 skills that have poor animations / sound effects / feel to them. Let's just say that I hope, in later levels, combat isn't as underwhelming as what TB has shown us (part 4 also shows abysmal combat).
In the training room you have two abilities to try out. That's it. How visceral can hitting training dummies with two abilites be?
That's a fair point. But, it would be a better point if these 2 starter abilities didn't look and feel so horrible.
Actually, when you select a weapon you get enough AP to buy a third ability.
Regarding combat, there is no reason to stand still instead of kiteing and secondly you can get a lot more movement based abilities as you go and they are adding dodging. What you see from TB is not how the game is ment to be played, he is fumbling around.
Its the expectation what TB thinks he is playing VS what hes actually playing. I can see the same mistakes he makes that I did before i learned how to play TSW.
He thinks he is playing WoW and expected GW2 combat.
4-5 hits to get the Kingsmouth zombies killed? Please, if you do it right you can two-shot them with a shotgun before they even get close.
Theres a reason why different weapons have different skills and are used for different encounters in this game.
If i use elementalism or rifles on packs, no wonder shit seems "slow and clunky". You are using single-target DPS weapons and skills.
Why do you think they gave you a shotgun in the Tokyo flashback? Because you were going to encounter swarms of infected, ergo an AOE weapon was the right choice.
He probably didn't even read the skill descriptions.
You need to understand that in TSW you have to think about what kind of weapons are good for what situation. Elementalism isn't really good at applying single target burst DPS, shotguns are no good vs single targets, rifles don't do AOE well, etc.
PS: im talking obviously about the first tier of skills.
Its the expectation what TB thinks he is playing VS what hes actually playing. I can see the same mistakes he makes that I did before i learned how to play TSW.
He thinks he is playing WoW and expected GW2 combat.
4-5 hits to get the Kingsmouth zombies killed? Please, if you do it right you can two-shot them with a shotgun before they even get close.
Theres a reason why different weapons have different skills and are used for different encounters in this game.
If i use elementalism or rifles on packs, no wonder shit seems "slow and clunky". You are using single-target DPS weapons and skills.
Why do you think they gave you a shotgun in the Tokyo flashback? Because you were going to encounter swarms of infected, ergo an AOE weapon was the right choice.
He probably didn't even read the skill descriptions.
You need to understand that in TSW you have to think about what kind of weapons are good for what situation. Elementalism isn't really good at applying single target burst DPS, shotguns are no good vs single targets, rifles don't do AOE well, etc.
PS: im talking obviously about the first tier of skills.
actually first tier shotgun can do some really decent single target as well it has a couple hard hitters if paired with something like hammer.. but it all depends on what you pair it with and thats the fun of the skill system:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Comments
I agree. I like the combat, and think the skill wheel shows great potential for some interesting tactics and synergies. It definiltely has a distinctive feel to it.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
I like TSW's combat better than GW2's and I've played both. I'd never have the gall to say ANet did combat wrong, but rather concede that it's not my style.
I have noticed that even though I have many tier 3 abilities unlocked in the elemental "tree", there is not necessarily an advantage to them. In fact, as you point out, sometimes using tier 1 abilities have more advantage than supposedly "better" skills depending on what passives you choose.
For people that like to tinker with such things, I suspect that it will be interesting, though I question what is the point of unlocking so many skills when you may find that a percentage of them are not useful (what percentage is unclear). And is there actually enough content to unlock the full wheel or are they depending on repeatable quests and grinding dungeons?
What I do have a problem with in the combat system is that it is resource-based. I know this is a preference, but I hate using builders to stack points. Absolutely hate it. And despite so many talents, it seems that the need to ensure balance has made many of the talents seem rather generic no matter what weapon you initially specilize it. So if you are dps, you end up with one or two builders, a medium power attack, one aoe, one finisher, one snare/root elite and one thing that can apply a condition or a buff. And the variation between all of these things on the trees SEEMS rather minimal (though I do not claim to be an expert on the skill wheel). I am using primarily elemental/shotgun.
In the end I am left with combat that to me feels rather generic with a lot of builder spamming, but maybe that's my problem and not the game's. I played WoW for far too many years and so this combat feels exactly like a throwback to that (TO ME). And as of right now, I don't see an active dodge in the game, maybe this would help, maybe not.
But given the density of mobs throughout the game, I find that combat interferes with what could be a rather enjoyable experience. There are just a TON of trash mobs standing around (with some limited patrolling). Frankly I think this would have made a kickass single-player game if they made combat more rare and more "survival-horror" based but I guess they want the recurring revenue.
Other people will like the combat for what it is, and we have not yet seen the final product, so we'll see what they modify over the next month.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
The game's are very very different.
I mean it's one thing to compare the two systems and decide which one you like better, but to say that one is wrong and one is right is pretty closed minded.
TSW is a different game for many reasons. There may be some crossover in the audiences, but TSW appeals to people for entirely different reasons than GW 2.
We get it, you love GW 2 combat. That's great. You have a game that provides what you want. For many of us TSW provides things that we want which cant be easily found elsewhere.
Some people (like myself) are so sick of high fantasy that we barely give it a chance. Some people want skill (skills you use not your own player skill) based progression.
Would TSW benefit from gw2 or Tera style combat? Possibly. Im all for action combat, in fact I greatly prefer Fps combat to rpg combat. That doesn't mean that GW or Tera are suddenly able to overcome my dislikes about the game.
I know, it's hard to understand, but TSW really does appeal to a certain audience of players. It may not have the mass market appeal of GW2, but there is an audience for this game.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's "wrong." it's not "right" for everyone but this game strikes a chord with many of us for reasons that I don't think some of you will ever understand.
Here's a tip: if this game doesn't have what you want out of an mmo, then don't buy it. Simple as that. You don't have to waste another second thinking about it.
Play what you like and what is appealing to you. That's what those of us who choose (and stay with) TSW will be doing. I can honestly say that there is not another rpg on the market that offers everything TSW does in one package.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
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I don't see the combat as gamebreaking or unbearable. It does appear to lack impact, as the video suggested. Guild Wars 2 focuses on combat - it's one of its best features. As I understand, this game focuses more on quests, skill leveling, story and the overall world. It shows promise.
Ok, watched more of the video. What concerns me about it is the slowness of the animations in relation to the skill activation. If this game is anything like LoTRO, in combat, I will not play it. I will wait to try this one before I buy it.
I think you're just making too many assumptions and your tip isn't very healthy.
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LOTRO is like TERA when compared to TSW , seriously. And I thought LOTRO combat animations were sluggish at best , they seem speedy and combat fluid compared to TSW - its going to get raped in most reviews at release for its overall combat.
You compare that GW2 video to the training room in TSW? lmao.
You seen 18 out of 500+ TSW abilities.
If your point is that we've only seen 18 skills from the TSW video, keep in mind that you can only have 10 skills on your skill bar in GW2, which is all that we can see from the warrior video. Also, saying that there are more skills to be seen doesn't necessarily make up for the 18 skills that have poor animations / sound effects / feel to them. Let's just say that I hope, in later levels, combat isn't as underwhelming as what TB has shown us (part 4 also shows abysmal combat).
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Ah...
I'm pretty sad. Made a bet with a friend that TSW would last longer before the cycle of troll-targeting / fanboism kicked into gear. $5 have been lost this day.
Anticipate a great flood of trolls that wage a great flame war on anything related to this game, all the while proclaiming the other best thing since sliced bread, and then the coming of those who believe this game is the Ark. Personally, I couldn't give a damn about either of them, so I WAIT UNTIL AFTER THE GAME COMES OUT BEFORE CRITIQUING IT.
I'm really sick of the whole "There's a massive fanbase for X", or "Y would be a WoW-killer if it just had a chance".
There is no massive conspiracy waiting in the MMO playerbase.
There are no "sleeper-agent fans" waiting to convert once the X or Y is unleashed on the world.
In the training room you have two abilities to try out. That's it. How visceral can hitting training dummies with two abilites be?
I suggest to just wait till the next open beta when the latest beta patches presumably will have been installed, and see for yourself then if it's acceptable for you personally or not.
That's a fair point. But, it would be a better point if these 2 starter abilities didn't look and feel so horrible.
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Actually, when you select a weapon you get enough AP to buy a third ability.
Regarding combat, there is no reason to stand still instead of kiteing and secondly you can get a lot more movement based abilities as you go and they are adding dodging. What you see from TB is not how the game is ment to be played, he is fumbling around.
Can you link a video of good, talented combat? I can't find one.
No, those players are in the closed beta which has an NDA...
lol
I have played both and like the feel of TSW's combat better than GW2's. GW2's combat feels old and stale, I have played GW2's combat style since 1999. It will be a muchly needed refreshing change to play TSW combat as it is not done in every mmo.
Ey, it's my honest opinion! The devs could probably show us good combat, but they are usually playing with the press and have OP characters so they can help the press so they can get past the first encounter in the dungeons. Looking at TB and other members of the press play is usually just painful.
Personally I don't like how they have put so simple abilities at the start of the game, since it gives the wrong impression about combat complexity. At the same time, I can understand why they have done it. They want to let people get used to the system before throwing them into the deep end.
We might see some more interesting videos when it comes to combat in the third and fourth beta weekend, but it depends if we get somebody skilled, have played the previous beta weekends to level up that actually streams. Otherwise we will see the same 1-2-3 pressing noob combat again.
I could show you hours of QL10 (top gear) PvP video but I can't because of the NDA, you will see it sooner or later. Mobility is key, even in PvE. If you stand around like that video of GW2, you will die. Course you also need to be careful when you move around in combat cause there is always another nasty you can atract the attention of in PvE.
that's not how it works at all sorry...
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Yeah, I wonder if some of these heralds have even played the game? You cant even mix and match 525 skills because you are limited to two weapons at a time. You can put whatever passives you want on as well, but most are linked to certain weapon types and are fairly useless with the wrong weapon.
Its not as diverse as they seem to think.
Regarding the actual point of the thread, yeah the animations need work in TSW. They just dont look like convincing combat animations, which is strange because they did such a good job with Age of Conan.
Its the expectation what TB thinks he is playing VS what hes actually playing. I can see the same mistakes he makes that I did before i learned how to play TSW.
He thinks he is playing WoW and expected GW2 combat.
4-5 hits to get the Kingsmouth zombies killed? Please, if you do it right you can two-shot them with a shotgun before they even get close.
Theres a reason why different weapons have different skills and are used for different encounters in this game.
If i use elementalism or rifles on packs, no wonder shit seems "slow and clunky". You are using single-target DPS weapons and skills.
Why do you think they gave you a shotgun in the Tokyo flashback? Because you were going to encounter swarms of infected, ergo an AOE weapon was the right choice.
He probably didn't even read the skill descriptions.
You need to understand that in TSW you have to think about what kind of weapons are good for what situation. Elementalism isn't really good at applying single target burst DPS, shotguns are no good vs single targets, rifles don't do AOE well, etc.
PS: im talking obviously about the first tier of skills.
actually first tier shotgun can do some really decent single target as well it has a couple hard hitters if paired with something like hammer.. but it all depends on what you pair it with and thats the fun of the skill system:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg