Only one problem: The game is Asian. This is a gaming culture who values repetitiveness, redundancy and the same regurgitated, re-hashed mess over and over and over again.
That sounds a lot like the western MMO market...
Making that post about this particular game really made you look smart. Really.
I say good luck getting the player trail to work with the American crowd, even more so this game being a PVP game. It will be an abused feature in the player hate player wars that always a side affect of rival pvp communties. Much like how the fans of a You Tube channel will mass vote the offensive button some somebody who against that channels creator.
While this could be true if they completely botch the design, it is quite possible that the trial system could work.
Just off the top of my head your scenario above would not work if they suspend the trial system if one criminal kills another criminal (or if an "innocent" attacks a criminal first), thus allowing warring PvP guilds/players to fight as muh as they want wihout fear of being sent to jail (if the trial system will even have a harsh penalty).
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
If you get killed by another player in neutral (non contested) territory, your corpse will remain on the ground for a set amount of time. If another player comes by and sees/inpects your corpse, they can report a murder has occurred. From there, npcs will hunt down the ganker and get put on trail and sentenced to jail. This is all automated. In jail, the ganker can just wait it out or try to dig their way out with a spoon. Either way, it takes a long time before the pker gets back out into the world with that character.
The point of this system is to create a potential time sink for a ganker. They will have to decide for themselves if its worth the risk of having their character locked out of the game so to speak in exchange for ganking someone in neutral territory.
That is what Ive gotten from the website and translations at least. Take it for what you will.
This sounds interesting enough, but I wonder what the game will do if there is a group going around ganking tons of people. If there's noone alive to report the murder, what then? If the jail time is a set amount, then the person can just afk their time, or log out and let it tick down. I don't see a lot of downsides to people behaving badly.
FFA PvP simply doesn't work the way developers think it will, because the consequences of behaving badly can be trivialized. Now if the game system can kind of work more like real life, then there could be something behind it.
For instance, in the real world, some areas become taken over by criminal elements, and people just know to stay away. However, in many areas, you are more or less safe from violence. Sure it can happen, but violence just isn't common. So, if the game can track where a high "crime" area is in a neutral area, then the game could automatically spawn more NPC guard to patrol, so as to deter crime. In other areas, let's say if players make payments to a NPC guard office, they could then "buy" more patrollers in the area.
Something along those lines, at least for what are supposed to be "neutral" areas, I would be willing to give it a whirl. Hell, I might even become something akin to a bounty hunter in the area and actively hunt for Criminals. Out in the wilds though (non-neutral areas), yeah it's every man for himself.
Only one problem: The game is Asian. This is a gaming culture who values repetitiveness, redundancy and the same regurgitated, re-hashed mess over and over and over again.
Because Western mmo's arent all extremely boring themepark copies of WoW, and has been ever since WoW was released, yeah I can see why we shouldnt be looking at Asia when it comes to an innovative gameplay, games like AoC, WAR, Lotro, SWTOR are all super refreshing and not the same shit in a new skin and with a twist, I guess 3 out of 4 going f2p are also a quality stamp!
Hmm, if the punishment was harsh... like your character being locked in jail for at least a week (real time, and longer for killing less powerful characters than yours) and losing all claim to property ect. and having to pay a fine... maybe it could work.
People would probably still try to exploit it though (like with multiple accounts), but if there is significant vertical progression you would at least have to risk a high level character to kill a high level character.
Each to his, but a FFA-PVP is not for me. I loved the other ideas about ArchAge, but I don't want a PVP game. I want to do my PVE in peace. So it's a pity but as long as they don't announced PVE-servers I pass. The trials are only the cherry on top of the No-No.
I so completely agree with this. There are a lot of people who would love a Sand Box MMO with out forced PvP. The FFA PvP sandbox games all completely implode in pretty short order, when will developers get a clue on this? At least design the game with support for PvE servers where people who don't want PvP can enjoy the other 99% of the game play possibilities.
FFA PvP sandbox seeking gamers have essentially 2 horridly developed games in DF and MO. Waaah instanced PvP + PvE'ers have every single other completely rehashed clone on the market to play. Why try to do away with the first game since pre-trammel UO (over 13 years we've waited), for an actualy properly developed FFA PvP sandbox.
Give us a single decent game to play, and we'll stay out of your instances.
A sandbox without PvP....go play minecraft. Player conflict and politics DRIVES a sandbox game. You have obviously never experienced this if you are worried about a few griefers. These kind of things drive cooperative gameplay and factioning......the experience that MMO's used to be about, the thing that differentiates them from playing someone online multiplayer crap RPG on xbox live with your buddies.
Everything has it's market and it's place. Everyone on this site cries about the stale state of MMO's, then comes here crying about a true open sandbox with player driven content through PvP.....I mean wtf do you want????????
Each to his, but a FFA-PVP is not for me. I loved the other ideas about ArchAge, but I don't want a PVP game. I want to do my PVE in peace. So it's a pity but as long as they don't announced PVE-servers I pass. The trials are only the cherry on top of the No-No.
I so completely agree with this. There are a lot of people who would love a Sand Box MMO with out forced PvP. The FFA PvP sandbox games all completely implode in pretty short order, when will developers get a clue on this? At least design the game with support for PvE servers where people who don't want PvP can enjoy the other 99% of the game play possibilities.
FFA PvP sandbox seeking gamers have essentially 2 horridly developed games in DF and MO. Waaah instanced PvP + PvE'ers have every single other completely rehashed clone on the market to play. Why try to do away with the first game since pre-trammel UO (over 13 years we've waited), for an actualy properly developed FFA PvP sandbox.
Give us a single decent game to play, and we'll stay out of your instances.
A sandbox without PvP....go play minecraft. Player conflict and politics DRIVES a sandbox game. You have obviously never experienced this if you are worried about a few griefers. These kind of things drive cooperative gameplay and factioning......the experience that MMO's used to be about, the thing that differentiates them from playing someone online multiplayer crap RPG on xbox live with your buddies.
Everything has it's market and it's place. Everyone on this site cries about the stale state of MMO's, then comes here crying about a true open sandbox with player driven content through PvP.....I mean wtf do you want????????
Well said my friend.
I am worried that for AA to release in NA it will need to be dumbed down more than I would wish.
Sweet, this game have potential to be very interesting and great. I hope they will bring everything they say in this game. Anyway, Archage, GW2 and TSW could be beacons of light in todays mmo gloom. Best of luck.
Each to his, but a FFA-PVP is not for me. I loved the other ideas about ArchAge, but I don't want a PVP game. I want to do my PVE in peace. So it's a pity but as long as they don't announced PVE-servers I pass. The trials are only the cherry on top of the No-No.
I so completely agree with this. There are a lot of people who would love a Sand Box MMO with out forced PvP. The FFA PvP sandbox games all completely implode in pretty short order, when will developers get a clue on this? At least design the game with support for PvE servers where people who don't want PvP can enjoy the other 99% of the game play possibilities.
FFA PvP sandbox seeking gamers have essentially 2 horridly developed games in DF and MO. Waaah instanced PvP + PvE'ers have every single other completely rehashed clone on the market to play. Why try to do away with the first game since pre-trammel UO (over 13 years we've waited), for an actualy properly developed FFA PvP sandbox.
Give us a single decent game to play, and we'll stay out of your instances.
A sandbox without PvP....go play minecraft. Player conflict and politics DRIVES a sandbox game. You have obviously never experienced this if you are worried about a few griefers. These kind of things drive cooperative gameplay and factioning......the experience that MMO's used to be about, the thing that differentiates them from playing someone online multiplayer crap RPG on xbox live with your buddies.
Everything has it's market and it's place. Everyone on this site cries about the stale state of MMO's, then comes here crying about a true open sandbox with player driven content through PvP.....I mean wtf do you want????????
Well said my friend.
I am worried that for AA to release in NA it will need to be dumbed down more than I would wish.
Well hopefully they leave the EU version as is then.
Honestly, i would rather not play with people who get killed once, go cry to the forums and then ragequit. The less entitled 12 year olds, the better.
If you hate community driven PVP so much, you can always play GW2.
Oh wait, it's a themepark, you can't build stuff there, and it's instanced (((
Well, looks like you are going to have to deal with a game with real PVP, or keep playing superfun themeparks.
Nothing here will be popular unless it's ultra casual and shallow, this game just needs 100-200k subs in the west, everything else will come from the east, like Aion.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
Was really looking forward to this one. To bad another sandbox going down the "Oh it's a sandbox it has to have FFA pvp".
Anyone else tired of hearing "if done right"? No system will ever be done right because it is impossible to predict the ingenuity of people desire to act like asses.
I agree with you.
Why not make the pvp a choice?
If you looked around a bit, you might have realized its supposed to be ffa pvp on the third island, not the first two. Think of the third island as 0.0 sec
The only people that will generate bloods if they kill you are your own faction members.
As it stands the other faction and the Reds will be able to kill you anywhere with impunity and loot you, so yeah you might be kind of protected from your neighbour PKing you but thats not gonna help you much when gank squads perma camp you when all you wanna do is gather your crops...
An optional PvP server, with it limited to the 3rd continent and surrounding waters and BGs, would be what I am looking for.
Open world PvP in level/ gear based games is just for angry teens to use as therapy and I don't play games to be part of that.
I've had this stance with PVP games for years. The thing is, most MMO gamers love sandbox games, they just don't want to deal with the assholes who get a little too much pleasure out of pointlessly griefing others. If there was some huge faction war, it would make since out on a battle field; but, a gank squad shouldn't be able to just stroll up on anyone at anytime and have at them. And from my experience, expecting the community to keep people like that in check with a trial system, it never works and like others have pointed out, is abused horribly.
This game has massive potential; but, it seems everyone wants to transform it into their own private nitch world. Nitch games are those games that everyone wants to play; but, they can't stand the community that they attract. It's bad when you can have a massive game like this and no one is willing to make compromises so that anyone can find a place in it. And all the while everyone is pointing their finger at one another stating, how childish the other is for not liking their play style. That's pretty childish. ;-)
Each to his, but a FFA-PVP is not for me. I loved the other ideas about ArchAge, but I don't want a PVP game. I want to do my PVE in peace. So it's a pity but as long as they don't announced PVE-servers I pass. The trials are only the cherry on top of the No-No.
I so completely agree with this. There are a lot of people who would love a Sand Box MMO with out forced PvP. The FFA PvP sandbox games all completely implode in pretty short order, when will developers get a clue on this? At least design the game with support for PvE servers where people who don't want PvP can enjoy the other 99% of the game play possibilities.
FFA PvP sandbox seeking gamers have essentially 2 horridly developed games in DF and MO. Waaah instanced PvP + PvE'ers have every single other completely rehashed clone on the market to play. Why try to do away with the first game since pre-trammel UO (over 13 years we've waited), for an actualy properly developed FFA PvP sandbox.
Give us a single decent game to play, and we'll stay out of your instances.
A sandbox without PvP....go play minecraft. Player conflict and politics DRIVES a sandbox game. You have obviously never experienced this if you are worried about a few griefers. These kind of things drive cooperative gameplay and factioning......the experience that MMO's used to be about, the thing that differentiates them from playing someone online multiplayer crap RPG on xbox live with your buddies.
Everything has it's market and it's place. Everyone on this site cries about the stale state of MMO's, then comes here crying about a true open sandbox with player driven content through PvP.....I mean wtf do you want????????
I don't have a problem with you getting a properly developed ffa pvp sandbox game.I just wish someone was developing a pve sandbox game.
The post you quoted mentioned a pve server.Lots of pve games have pvp servers.So why couldn't AA have pve servers.It wouldn't effect you as long as you didn't play on them.
Garrett Fuller takes a look at the buzz generated by ArcheAge, and questions whether the game's sandbox systems such as player trials really can work in practice.
ArcheAge has been growing on the site a lot lately. The sandbox style game coming out of Asia has garnered some support from our fanbase so we thought to discuss what we know so far and what we expect from the game. ArcheAge has some interesting points and some throwback style game play that we all love as MMO players. However, will it work with the Western audience? More importantly will their player trial system work?
Wow, a balanced fair article, I guess there is not to too much advertising spend when the game is 18months away. Apply this principle to all articles please.
I got half way through these posts before i had to stop reading them. The amount of ignorent posters here is stagering. Non of you have done any research on this game what so ever. Just a bunch of geussing and assuming as to what this game MAY be.
If you would have read any real info about this game you would know what this game will have in store. And im not ganna go in search of this info for you. Go look the shit up yourself. There's a ton on info on how the games featuers will play.
Stop making up false statements about AA please. Your giving the people that know next to nothing about AA that come to sites like this for real info the wrong info.
With a game like this where pvp is obviously fundamental to the post leveling part of the game, I find it off that someone who doesn't want pvp would even be looking at it.
As for the thread, as someone said six months ago in this thread, a trial is pointless we have them irl to decide guilt, that is already known in the game so a vote or such is pointless and haven't they since actually established this mechanism already.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
With a game like this where pvp is obviously fundamental to the post leveling part of the game, I find it off that someone who doesn't want pvp would even be looking at it.
As for the thread, as someone said six months ago in this thread, a trial is pointless we have them irl to decide guilt, that is already known in the game so a vote or such is pointless and haven't they since actually established this mechanism already.
Again your asking people that have not done any research on this game. People in this thread talking about PK ganking for bag looting and how this game is goin to be just another Korean grinder bla bla bla bla.
No one is reading forums or trying to get to know this game at all. Tons of vids and the best part... no NDA. The info is there for them to check out. They just choose to make assumptions about something they dont even know about.
My biggest consern with such a system is that the only people put on trial are people who did something. So when someone goes on trial you know they are guilty and the system ends-up bieng a popularity contest.
ROFL. Why on earth would anyone but the person that did something wrond be on trial? And as for the comment in red.... i dont know how you came to that conclusion.
They better have a US Release. I've been excited about this game for quite some time.
SOE should just buy it, change a few skins, and call it EQ3.
That would kill this game faster than almost anything else. SOE hasn't recovered from it's negative rep from SWG and add in their recent issues with security and ArchAge wouldn't have a chance.
No, SOE is the LAST thing ArchAge needs to have any dealings with.
Seems the only people I still see complaining about this are in the "SWG Vets" forum on this site. I don't seem to see a lot of this dead horse on other sites...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Too many NA publishers have a bad habbit of butchering the games they get. I've seen it countless times a fun game from Japan/Korea gets torn to pieces over here.
Missing Content, Glitches, The Works. Usually these publishers don't know what their doing and end up doing more damage to a game then good cus their too busy catering to SWG players and WoW players. In effect, dumbing the game down to nothing.
well, am I the only one that says Perfect World should publish the game in NA? They specialize in localizing Chinese/Korean games, and they have done well with all their games, even the ones they don't own, so ArcheAge could find a spot with Perfect World, and it could become even more popular than it is now.
Originally posted by Slampig Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by depain They better have a US Release. I've been excited about this game for quite some time.
SOE should just buy it, change a few skins, and call it EQ3.
That would kill this game faster than almost anything else. SOE hasn't recovered from it's negative rep from SWG and add in their recent issues with security and ArchAge wouldn't have a chance.
No, SOE is the LAST thing ArchAge needs to have any dealings with. Seems the only people I still see complaining about this are in the "SWG Vets" forum on this site. I don't seem to see a lot of this dead horse on other sites...
I'm not an SWG vet. I haven't seen SOE do anything that would make me think they are a top notch publisher or developer. Mediocre at best.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
CCP would be an interesting publisher for this game. Space ship sandbox, and a fantasy sandbox.
Currently Play: ?
Occasionally Play: Champions, Pirates of the Burning Sea, WOW, EVE ONLINE
That sounds a lot like the western MMO market...
Making that post about this particular game really made you look smart. Really.
While this could be true if they completely botch the design, it is quite possible that the trial system could work.
Just off the top of my head your scenario above would not work if they suspend the trial system if one criminal kills another criminal (or if an "innocent" attacks a criminal first), thus allowing warring PvP guilds/players to fight as muh as they want wihout fear of being sent to jail (if the trial system will even have a harsh penalty).
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
This sounds interesting enough, but I wonder what the game will do if there is a group going around ganking tons of people. If there's noone alive to report the murder, what then? If the jail time is a set amount, then the person can just afk their time, or log out and let it tick down. I don't see a lot of downsides to people behaving badly.
FFA PvP simply doesn't work the way developers think it will, because the consequences of behaving badly can be trivialized. Now if the game system can kind of work more like real life, then there could be something behind it.
For instance, in the real world, some areas become taken over by criminal elements, and people just know to stay away. However, in many areas, you are more or less safe from violence. Sure it can happen, but violence just isn't common. So, if the game can track where a high "crime" area is in a neutral area, then the game could automatically spawn more NPC guard to patrol, so as to deter crime. In other areas, let's say if players make payments to a NPC guard office, they could then "buy" more patrollers in the area.
Something along those lines, at least for what are supposed to be "neutral" areas, I would be willing to give it a whirl. Hell, I might even become something akin to a bounty hunter in the area and actively hunt for Criminals. Out in the wilds though (non-neutral areas), yeah it's every man for himself.
I'm sure NCsoft would love to publish this game, after all their porfolio is built around mainly korean games that are bad.
Because Western mmo's arent all extremely boring themepark copies of WoW, and has been ever since WoW was released, yeah I can see why we shouldnt be looking at Asia when it comes to an innovative gameplay, games like AoC, WAR, Lotro, SWTOR are all super refreshing and not the same shit in a new skin and with a twist, I guess 3 out of 4 going f2p are also a quality stamp!
Hmm, if the punishment was harsh... like your character being locked in jail for at least a week (real time, and longer for killing less powerful characters than yours) and losing all claim to property ect. and having to pay a fine... maybe it could work.
People would probably still try to exploit it though (like with multiple accounts), but if there is significant vertical progression you would at least have to risk a high level character to kill a high level character.
FFA PvP sandbox seeking gamers have essentially 2 horridly developed games in DF and MO. Waaah instanced PvP + PvE'ers have every single other completely rehashed clone on the market to play. Why try to do away with the first game since pre-trammel UO (over 13 years we've waited), for an actualy properly developed FFA PvP sandbox.
Give us a single decent game to play, and we'll stay out of your instances.
A sandbox without PvP....go play minecraft. Player conflict and politics DRIVES a sandbox game. You have obviously never experienced this if you are worried about a few griefers. These kind of things drive cooperative gameplay and factioning......the experience that MMO's used to be about, the thing that differentiates them from playing someone online multiplayer crap RPG on xbox live with your buddies.
Everything has it's market and it's place. Everyone on this site cries about the stale state of MMO's, then comes here crying about a true open sandbox with player driven content through PvP.....I mean wtf do you want????????
Well said my friend.
I am worried that for AA to release in NA it will need to be dumbed down more than I would wish.
Sweet, this game have potential to be very interesting and great. I hope they will bring everything they say in this game. Anyway, Archage, GW2 and TSW could be beacons of light in todays mmo gloom. Best of luck.
I so completely agree with this. There are a lot of people who would love a Sand Box MMO with out forced PvP. The FFA PvP sandbox games all completely implode in pretty short order, when will developers get a clue on this? At least design the game with support for PvE servers where people who don't want PvP can enjoy the other 99% of the game play possibilities.
FFA PvP sandbox seeking gamers have essentially 2 horridly developed games in DF and MO. Waaah instanced PvP + PvE'ers have every single other completely rehashed clone on the market to play. Why try to do away with the first game since pre-trammel UO (over 13 years we've waited), for an actualy properly developed FFA PvP sandbox.
Give us a single decent game to play, and we'll stay out of your instances.
A sandbox without PvP....go play minecraft. Player conflict and politics DRIVES a sandbox game. You have obviously never experienced this if you are worried about a few griefers. These kind of things drive cooperative gameplay and factioning......the experience that MMO's used to be about, the thing that differentiates them from playing someone online multiplayer crap RPG on xbox live with your buddies.
Everything has it's market and it's place. Everyone on this site cries about the stale state of MMO's, then comes here crying about a true open sandbox with player driven content through PvP.....I mean wtf do you want????????
Well said my friend.
I am worried that for AA to release in NA it will need to be dumbed down more than I would wish.
Well hopefully they leave the EU version as is then.
If you hate community driven PVP so much, you can always play GW2.
Oh wait, it's a themepark, you can't build stuff there, and it's instanced
Well, looks like you are going to have to deal with a game with real PVP, or keep playing superfun themeparks.
Nothing here will be popular unless it's ultra casual and shallow, this game just needs 100-200k subs in the west, everything else will come from the east, like Aion."Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
I've had this stance with PVP games for years. The thing is, most MMO gamers love sandbox games, they just don't want to deal with the assholes who get a little too much pleasure out of pointlessly griefing others. If there was some huge faction war, it would make since out on a battle field; but, a gank squad shouldn't be able to just stroll up on anyone at anytime and have at them. And from my experience, expecting the community to keep people like that in check with a trial system, it never works and like others have pointed out, is abused horribly.
This game has massive potential; but, it seems everyone wants to transform it into their own private nitch world. Nitch games are those games that everyone wants to play; but, they can't stand the community that they attract. It's bad when you can have a massive game like this and no one is willing to make compromises so that anyone can find a place in it. And all the while everyone is pointing their finger at one another stating, how childish the other is for not liking their play style. That's pretty childish. ;-)
I don't have a problem with you getting a properly developed ffa pvp sandbox game.I just wish someone was developing a pve sandbox game.
The post you quoted mentioned a pve server.Lots of pve games have pvp servers.So why couldn't AA have pve servers.It wouldn't effect you as long as you didn't play on them.
Read the rest of Garrett Fuller's ArcheAge: The Trial System Concerns.
Wow, a balanced fair article, I guess there is not to too much advertising spend when the game is 18months away. Apply this principle to all articles please.I got half way through these posts before i had to stop reading them. The amount of ignorent posters here is stagering. Non of you have done any research on this game what so ever. Just a bunch of geussing and assuming as to what this game MAY be.
If you would have read any real info about this game you would know what this game will have in store. And im not ganna go in search of this info for you. Go look the shit up yourself. There's a ton on info on how the games featuers will play.
Stop making up false statements about AA please. Your giving the people that know next to nothing about AA that come to sites like this for real info the wrong info.
With a game like this where pvp is obviously fundamental to the post leveling part of the game, I find it off that someone who doesn't want pvp would even be looking at it.
As for the thread, as someone said six months ago in this thread, a trial is pointless we have them irl to decide guilt, that is already known in the game so a vote or such is pointless and haven't they since actually established this mechanism already.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Again your asking people that have not done any research on this game. People in this thread talking about PK ganking for bag looting and how this game is goin to be just another Korean grinder bla bla bla bla.
No one is reading forums or trying to get to know this game at all. Tons of vids and the best part... no NDA. The info is there for them to check out. They just choose to make assumptions about something they dont even know about.
ROFL. Why on earth would anyone but the person that did something wrond be on trial? And as for the comment in red.... i dont know how you came to that conclusion.
This
Seems the only people I still see complaining about this are in the "SWG Vets" forum on this site. I don't seem to see a lot of this dead horse on other sites...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Too many NA publishers have a bad habbit of butchering the games they get. I've seen it countless times a fun game from Japan/Korea gets torn to pieces over here.
Missing Content, Glitches, The Works. Usually these publishers don't know what their doing and end up doing more damage to a game then good cus their too busy catering to SWG players and WoW players. In effect, dumbing the game down to nothing.
well, am I the only one that says Perfect World should publish the game in NA? They specialize in localizing Chinese/Korean games, and they have done well with all their games, even the ones they don't own, so ArcheAge could find a spot with Perfect World, and it could become even more popular than it is now.
Has this game even released to their true, target audience? How is it doing there?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
That would kill this game faster than almost anything else. SOE hasn't recovered from it's negative rep from SWG and add in their recent issues with security and ArchAge wouldn't have a chance.
No, SOE is the LAST thing ArchAge needs to have any dealings with.
Seems the only people I still see complaining about this are in the "SWG Vets" forum on this site. I don't seem to see a lot of this dead horse on other sites...
I'm not an SWG vet. I haven't seen SOE do anything that would make me think they are a top notch publisher or developer. Mediocre at best.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.