It's just a poll. Player housing is obviously something that can be very complex. There aren't enough options to get into all the different possibilities. It would require one of those questionnaire sites to really explore the different aspects of housing and which aspects of housing are most important, which are least important, which ones make housing desirable, or which ones make housing detrimental to game play.
Just assume that in some future game, they're going to add housing. If you like housing in whatever form, the decision is between housing as a feature that everyone must have, versus housing that people can choose to play with or not.
Otherwise, just vote "Muffins" and do exactly what you're doing right now, explain your position on the matter further than what's available in the poll.
I am not talking about 1 of many different options I am talking about the single most critical factor. I can not express how important it is for a gaming feature to intergrate into the rest of the game in a meaningful way. The failure for some to understand the crtifical and fundemental difference between a 'vanity pet' and a sword with actual stats is beyond something I can believe.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by Axehilt Originally posted by lizardbones So you dislike housing, but would play a game if it were optional, or you dislike housing, but would not play a game if it were part of the game. In SWToR you have your space ships that operate as a form of (weak) housing. It's required...you have to have that ship to get around and you have to hang out on your ship for some minimal period of time to get from planet to planet. It is the player's own personal instance. It has required, but weak, housing. So weak in fact that it's not even seen as housing. Another example might be something like Farmville, where your housing is the game.
That's just it.
I don't dislike housing.
I dislike games which lack focus.
That's why your poll options don't make sense.
The poll isn't about a game's focus. If the option you want isn't there, vote "Muffins" and explain your point of view.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by SEANMCAD Originally posted by lizardbones.
It's just a poll. Player housing is obviously something that can be very complex. There aren't enough options to get into all the different possibilities. It would require one of those questionnaire sites to really explore the different aspects of housing and which aspects of housing are most important, which are least important, which ones make housing desirable, or which ones make housing detrimental to game play. Just assume that in some future game, they're going to add housing. If you like housing in whatever form, the decision is between housing as a feature that everyone must have, versus housing that people can choose to play with or not. Otherwise, just vote "Muffins" and do exactly what you're doing right now, explain your position on the matter further than what's available in the poll. I am not talking about 1 of many different options I am talking about the single most critical factor. I can not express how important it is for a gaming feature to intergrate into the rest of the game in a meaningful way. The failure for some to understand the crtifical and fundemental difference between a 'vanity pet' and a sword with actual stats is beyond something I can believe.
Just vote "Muffins". Or don't vote. Then explain why you didn't vote. Stop trying to prove your point. I get it. I promise. I really, really, really do. I'm just not interested in discussing that here, in this thread.
All I'm interested in is whether or not people consider the idea of having their own personal space (player housing) in a game world important.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Voted Like housing(optional)...but I really mean housing that is important and useful but you have the option to spend a lot of extra time/money on it.
I like it more if there is housing but it has to be good and well integrated. Not to say that it has to be required but having a need to use it does make it better. I honestly wouldn't have liked Vanguard more or less without it and it really could have done without it(with how it was implemented).
The MMOs that I played the most that included player housing:
EQ2- Good. House served as a place to store things, display trophies, play interior decorator, or as a front to sell your merchanise at discounted rates.
Neocron- Great. Your apartment was your home base. If you died you appeared there but you can also warp there from a GR. Warping from your apt GR to somewhere else saved you credits. Lots of cabinent space to store items that didn't fit in your bank. Can sit in chairs and use your terminal to read game email or game forums along with all the other things. There were clan apts and unfurnished apartments that could be decorated with anything including more cabinents or trophies. Of all the housing it was the most accessible and convenient to use. Everyone had one and you could spend a lot of extra credits on it if you wanted to.
Vanguard- Ok. Housing was a completely separate activity. It was optional and very expensive.You could furnish the house and store stuff in chests. Plots being dominated was a problem for world housing instead of being instanced. I disliked that your house was so distant and didn't have much reason to be there. Areas with land plots didn't form communities like they may have in SWG.
AutoAssault- Really Bad. Was a very crapped apt(Mutant). No functionality and very ugly to look at. AA wasn't doing well enough to have good player housing anyway.
I don't mind housing and if done well, I would probably use it. I would not play a game where it was not done well but you had no choice but to use it. At best, I would just ignore it, which I have done in most games that had personal housing.
Done well would require it be more than just a personal dickwaving system and a place to sell your stuff.
Originally posted by lizardbones The poll isn't about a game's focus. If the option you want isn't there, vote "Muffins" and explain your point of view.
The poll is about housing and whether or not it should be in games.
My point is that housing isn't something you can just say "Yes, it works flawlessly no matter what game it's put in." It's entirely reliant on whether housing fits with the game -- and in the case of most MMORPGs I've played with housing, it doesn't fit well.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by Axehilt Originally posted by lizardbonesThe poll isn't about a game's focus. If the option you want isn't there, vote "Muffins" and explain your point of view.
The poll is about housing and whether or not it should be in games.
My point is that housing isn't something you can just say "Yes, it works flawlessly no matter what game it's put in." It's entirely reliant on whether housing fits with the game -- and in the case of most MMORPGs I've played with housing, it doesn't fit well.
There aren't too many good examples of housing. There aren't too many examples of housing, period. So the housing we're referring to is the idea of housing. An imaginary implementation that will work in whatever game it's developed for. It's a personal space in the game. It might be a required part of the game play, or it could be optional. Some people don't feel the need to have that personal space. Some people would like a personal space in the game. Some people do not want resources spent on housing, because it means the raids will get fewer resources. And so on.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Between SWG and DAOC I have not seen another MMO bring housing out on the same level or even at all in most cases. If the housing is done correctly as it was in the two games mentioned above, then it is deffinately worth it and I would utilize it to its fullest capabilities and in an RP role.
SWG was great and DAOC okay,Vanguard is nearly as good as SWG,everything is player made and can be moved.Bricks,wallpaper,everything player made.
Too many options in the poll, but it came out to a steady parabolic flow either way. Interesting.
Though, when has there ever been a game where housing is 'required'? There are some games where it's hard to avoid, like FFXI's Moogle House, because at some point you're going to take advantage of it's storage - but what is an example of something that tells you "No, you can't play until you slap a home down"?
(I voted like/optional)
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
^one of those "cool" gamers you keep hearing about
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
for me personal houses only interest me if they have options like SWG where you could set up shops and sell stuff from inside your home. Aside from that what interests me more is GUILD housing.. I remember back in my MUD days we used to create huge guild houses in some of them was a good time and gave us all a place to meet up and chat about things. But guild housing gives you so many possibilities and also is more practical than allowing housing for everyone.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Looks like those who prefer or would at least like housing in their MMOs outweighs the people who dont like housing.
Guess its not so "niche" or unwanted after-all
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Originally posted by Terronte Originally posted by PyrateLVLooks like those who prefer or would at least like housing in their MMOs outweighs the people who dont like housing.Guess its not so "niche" or unwanted after-all
I'm not really sure that that can be concluded from this...
I could give a flying quark about housing either way, but am always a fan of additional things in my games.
There are a lot of factors to consider with housing. I think, overall, people approve of the idea of housing. But, would players trade housing for say, fast travel options? Does the answer depend on how useful or integral to the game the housing is? Do players who want housing prefer 'fluff' housing or housing that is somehow integrated into your character's progression? Is individual player housing even acceptable or should it always be guild housing? And so on.
So, with no other factors to consider, yes, people (I think) definitely like player housing. Maybe next we need a poll on the preferred type of housing. I'd like to do a multi-post poll, but I think that can run afoul of some of the forum rules.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
There are a lot of factors to consider with housing. I think, overall, people approve of the idea of housing. But, would players trade housing for say, fast travel options? Does the answer depend on how useful or integral to the game the housing is? Do players who want housing prefer 'fluff' housing or housing that is somehow integrated into your character's progression? Is individual player housing even acceptable or should it always be guild housing? And so on.
That's like saying "would you put up with housing if it meant someone got to kick you in the junk?".
I have never seen a game tell people "you can have housing, but we are yanking fast travel options because of it", nor have I seen housing be tied to any kind of progression, beyond that of having a class/profession tied to the crafting of houses and furniture itself.
It really seems that you actually think that implementing housing in the game requires a contract with Satan himself. What gives?
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Originally posted by GTwander Originally posted by lizardbones
There are a lot of factors to consider with housing. I think, overall, people approve of the idea of housing. But, would players trade housing for say, fast travel options? Does the answer depend on how useful or integral to the game the housing is? Do players who want housing prefer 'fluff' housing or housing that is somehow integrated into your character's progression? Is individual player housing even acceptable or should it always be guild housing? And so on.That's like saying "would you put up with housing if it meant someone got to kick you in the junk?".
I have never seen a game tell people "you can have housing, but we are yanking fast travel options because of it", nor have I seen housing be tied to any kind of progression, beyond that of having a class/profession tied to the crafting of houses and furniture itself.
It really seems that you actually think that implementing housing in the game requires a contract with Satan himself. What gives?
It's just an example. One that actually exists would be, you can have housing, but there's a chance another player might burn your house down and destroy all your crops, whether you're online or not.
The point isn't to define existing implementations, or even define future implementations, but to answer a bunch of questions about what players think on the subject of "Player Housing".
There's a lot of different ideas that are covered under the title, "Player Housing". Do players want a more 'fluffy' housing, or something more tied to game play? How important is housing in relation to other features? Is housing more or less important than something like faster travel or being able to ride trains? The point isn't to actual put housing in and take away fast travel, the point is to find out where on the spectrum of importance housing falls. And other stuff besides. Is it important that players build their own housing, or is renting an existing space acceptable? What percentage of players would prefer to build their own house in an open world and what percentage of players would rather rent an apartment in a main npc city?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It's part of the immersive experience, and one of the many reasons many of us more experienced gamers look to the past and wonder why coporate shortcuts in the genre has led to hacking out a little bit of the input and creativity that we as players could offer.
Remember folks, it's really easy to not be loyal to any particular mmorpg, because we leave nothing behind when we log out.
But imagine a title where we get to put a bit of ourselves in it. Even a house, a guild house, a castle, or a city with our own flags in the arms of the bannermen. Imagine developers, how much harder it is to leave that title behind. Anyone can find instanced pvp or mirrored classes and 5 races. Few games can offer players inputing a piece of themselves into the mmorpg that is supposed to truly give them a sense of escapism and importantly: RPG.
Play a number of titles and you come to see that are only a bit diferent but all equally as plastic. Some folks love transparent titles, but many of us want immersion, we want the RPG back in the MMO.
Comments
I am not talking about 1 of many different options I am talking about the single most critical factor. I can not express how important it is for a gaming feature to intergrate into the rest of the game in a meaningful way. The failure for some to understand the crtifical and fundemental difference between a 'vanity pet' and a sword with actual stats is beyond something I can believe.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I don't dislike housing.
I dislike games which lack focus.
That's why your poll options don't make sense.
The poll isn't about a game's focus. If the option you want isn't there, vote "Muffins" and explain your point of view.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Housing is iffy.
If the houses are NOT instanced and out in the open with good decorating options like in AC1 or SWG, its great...then again.
If the houses are NOT instanced...the worlds become cluttered unless its vastly limited much like in AC1 in which case, I could care less.
Its a double edged sword with me...instanced housing is just a storage space, non-instanced thats good, is a PITA due to world clutter.
I am not talking about 1 of many different options I am talking about the single most critical factor. I can not express how important it is for a gaming feature to intergrate into the rest of the game in a meaningful way. The failure for some to understand the crtifical and fundemental difference between a 'vanity pet' and a sword with actual stats is beyond something I can believe.
Just vote "Muffins". Or don't vote. Then explain why you didn't vote. Stop trying to prove your point. I get it. I promise. I really, really, really do. I'm just not interested in discussing that here, in this thread.
All I'm interested in is whether or not people consider the idea of having their own personal space (player housing) in a game world important.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Voted Like housing(optional)...but I really mean housing that is important and useful but you have the option to spend a lot of extra time/money on it.
I like it more if there is housing but it has to be good and well integrated. Not to say that it has to be required but having a need to use it does make it better. I honestly wouldn't have liked Vanguard more or less without it and it really could have done without it(with how it was implemented).
The MMOs that I played the most that included player housing:
EQ2- Good. House served as a place to store things, display trophies, play interior decorator, or as a front to sell your merchanise at discounted rates.
Neocron- Great. Your apartment was your home base. If you died you appeared there but you can also warp there from a GR. Warping from your apt GR to somewhere else saved you credits. Lots of cabinent space to store items that didn't fit in your bank. Can sit in chairs and use your terminal to read game email or game forums along with all the other things. There were clan apts and unfurnished apartments that could be decorated with anything including more cabinents or trophies. Of all the housing it was the most accessible and convenient to use. Everyone had one and you could spend a lot of extra credits on it if you wanted to.
Vanguard- Ok. Housing was a completely separate activity. It was optional and very expensive.You could furnish the house and store stuff in chests. Plots being dominated was a problem for world housing instead of being instanced. I disliked that your house was so distant and didn't have much reason to be there. Areas with land plots didn't form communities like they may have in SWG.
AutoAssault- Really Bad. Was a very crapped apt(Mutant). No functionality and very ugly to look at. AA wasn't doing well enough to have good player housing anyway.
You should have added a "Don't care either way whatsoever" option to that, closest I could come to was "Not sure, would play with it".
Where's the any key?
I don't mind housing and if done well, I would probably use it. I would not play a game where it was not done well but you had no choice but to use it. At best, I would just ignore it, which I have done in most games that had personal housing.
Done well would require it be more than just a personal dickwaving system and a place to sell your stuff.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
The poll is about housing and whether or not it should be in games.
My point is that housing isn't something you can just say "Yes, it works flawlessly no matter what game it's put in." It's entirely reliant on whether housing fits with the game -- and in the case of most MMORPGs I've played with housing, it doesn't fit well.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
+1 My view on this is the same. I feel that the dev's effort is best spent on other things and housing is usually just a fluffy timesink.
if "housing" would mean stone by stone like in Minecraft, i would love it, because it could change the world.
but the usual housing in MMOs is just nice to have.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
My point is that housing isn't something you can just say "Yes, it works flawlessly no matter what game it's put in." It's entirely reliant on whether housing fits with the game -- and in the case of most MMORPGs I've played with housing, it doesn't fit well.
There aren't too many good examples of housing. There aren't too many examples of housing, period. So the housing we're referring to is the idea of housing. An imaginary implementation that will work in whatever game it's developed for. It's a personal space in the game. It might be a required part of the game play, or it could be optional. Some people don't feel the need to have that personal space. Some people would like a personal space in the game. Some people do not want resources spent on housing, because it means the raids will get fewer resources. And so on.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Housing is kind of cool to me when it is non instanced. It really isnt a consideration for me one way or the other.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
SWG was great and DAOC okay,Vanguard is nearly as good as SWG,everything is player made and can be moved.Bricks,wallpaper,everything player made.
Non instanced.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5088833/postAction/reply/quote/true
http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Crafting
Too many options in the poll, but it came out to a steady parabolic flow either way. Interesting.
Though, when has there ever been a game where housing is 'required'? There are some games where it's hard to avoid, like FFXI's Moogle House, because at some point you're going to take advantage of it's storage - but what is an example of something that tells you "No, you can't play until you slap a home down"?
(I voted like/optional)
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I miss SWG, and my house.
^one of those "cool" gamers you keep hearing about
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
for me personal houses only interest me if they have options like SWG where you could set up shops and sell stuff from inside your home. Aside from that what interests me more is GUILD housing.. I remember back in my MUD days we used to create huge guild houses in some of them was a good time and gave us all a place to meet up and chat about things. But guild housing gives you so many possibilities and also is more practical than allowing housing for everyone.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Looks like those who prefer or would at least like housing in their MMOs outweighs the people who dont like housing.
Guess its not so "niche" or unwanted after-all
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
I'm not really sure that that can be concluded from this...
I could give a flying quark about housing either way, but am always a fan of additional things in my games.
I could give a flying quark about housing either way, but am always a fan of additional things in my games.
There are a lot of factors to consider with housing. I think, overall, people approve of the idea of housing. But, would players trade housing for say, fast travel options? Does the answer depend on how useful or integral to the game the housing is? Do players who want housing prefer 'fluff' housing or housing that is somehow integrated into your character's progression? Is individual player housing even acceptable or should it always be guild housing? And so on.
So, with no other factors to consider, yes, people (I think) definitely like player housing. Maybe next we need a poll on the preferred type of housing. I'd like to do a multi-post poll, but I think that can run afoul of some of the forum rules.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
That's like saying "would you put up with housing if it meant someone got to kick you in the junk?".
I have never seen a game tell people "you can have housing, but we are yanking fast travel options because of it", nor have I seen housing be tied to any kind of progression, beyond that of having a class/profession tied to the crafting of houses and furniture itself.
It really seems that you actually think that implementing housing in the game requires a contract with Satan himself. What gives?
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
That's like saying "would you put up with housing if it meant someone got to kick you in the junk?".
I have never seen a game tell people "you can have housing, but we are yanking fast travel options because of it", nor have I seen housing be tied to any kind of progression, beyond that of having a class/profession tied to the crafting of houses and furniture itself.
It really seems that you actually think that implementing housing in the game requires a contract with Satan himself. What gives?
It's just an example. One that actually exists would be, you can have housing, but there's a chance another player might burn your house down and destroy all your crops, whether you're online or not.
The point isn't to define existing implementations, or even define future implementations, but to answer a bunch of questions about what players think on the subject of "Player Housing".
There's a lot of different ideas that are covered under the title, "Player Housing". Do players want a more 'fluffy' housing, or something more tied to game play? How important is housing in relation to other features? Is housing more or less important than something like faster travel or being able to ride trains? The point isn't to actual put housing in and take away fast travel, the point is to find out where on the spectrum of importance housing falls. And other stuff besides. Is it important that players build their own housing, or is renting an existing space acceptable? What percentage of players would prefer to build their own house in an open world and what percentage of players would rather rent an apartment in a main npc city?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I want the RPG back in MMO.
It's part of the immersive experience, and one of the many reasons many of us more experienced gamers look to the past and wonder why coporate shortcuts in the genre has led to hacking out a little bit of the input and creativity that we as players could offer.
Remember folks, it's really easy to not be loyal to any particular mmorpg, because we leave nothing behind when we log out.
But imagine a title where we get to put a bit of ourselves in it. Even a house, a guild house, a castle, or a city with our own flags in the arms of the bannermen. Imagine developers, how much harder it is to leave that title behind. Anyone can find instanced pvp or mirrored classes and 5 races. Few games can offer players inputing a piece of themselves into the mmorpg that is supposed to truly give them a sense of escapism and importantly: RPG.
Play a number of titles and you come to see that are only a bit diferent but all equally as plastic. Some folks love transparent titles, but many of us want immersion, we want the RPG back in the MMO.
/my 2 cents.
I will play a game with or without a housing system. It's not a very important feature for me.