Schadenfreude is real and the reason why people are doing this in MMOs (or any game for that matter) is it works 100% of the time. It's infallible. Someone will take the bait or get mad and the other person get enjoyment out of it.
The only real fix for this is for every gamer to realize that they're being trolled / baited and never respond, but that will not realistically happen. Therefore, embrace the times and become a predator, or go in seclusion by forming your niche guild.
Game design has very little to do with this. It will happen in WoW (Trade chat) and EVE (all the colourful forms of griefing that is part of the game). If anything, smaller games with more established admins (MUDs) can help mitigate the problem.
Not just in games it is in real life. You always find good folks and bad folks. The bad ones are so detached from reality that they think nothing of trampling on somebody else's feelings. In games I think it comes down to that person thinking he/she is safe in doing whatever without real ramifications. In real life they do the same actions, and unless somebody actually checks them on it they continue with the anti social behavior.
All one has to do is look at the personal insults that have happened over several video games that are competing against each other, I.E. gw2 and swtor. This is what society has devolved into because some folks do not have a moral compass any more, and those well I do report them even if it is not my post they decided to hit.
Some folks blame pvp, I don't I blame their parents for not training them up better. If you don't grow up learning right from wrong, how are you supposed to gain a moral compass. Used to be games had communities and that is no longer true, you even see the fighting, and flaming between folks playing the same games.
All I know is that I didn´t use any kind of ignore list until mid 00s and now it fills out quickly...
So yeah, the tone in the games have become a lot worse nowadays. But I have noted the same thing in forum and any places people can comment on the net, not really sure why though.
A theory is that it gives people with low self esteem the chanse to bring other with little chanse of real retribution, people behaving that way IRL would get beaten up a lot.
But I have no real theory why it have gone up so much recently, if it just was in MMOs you could blame Wow but it is everywhere and it isn´t just because geeks used the net before, it didn´t really start until 6 years or so ago.
Not just in games it is in real life. You always find good folks and bad folks. The bad ones are so detached from reality that they think nothing of trampling on somebody else's feelings. In games I think it comes down to that person thinking he/she is safe in doing whatever without real ramifications. In real life they do the same actions, and unless somebody actually checks them on it they continue with the anti social behavior.
All one has to do is look at the personal insults that have happened over several video games that are competing against each other, I.E. gw2 and swtor. This is what society has devolved into because some folks do not have a moral compass any more, and those well I do report them even if it is not my post they decided to hit.
Some folks blame pvp, I don't I blame their parents for not training them up better. If you don't grow up learning right from wrong, how are you supposed to gain a moral compass. Used to be games had communities and that is no longer true, you even see the fighting, and flaming between folks playing the same games.
I don´t think so, people are not ruder to me at the pub or at a store now then they were 10 or 20 years ago, it is just on the internet.
It surely isn't PvPs fault at least, it is all over the net and in every game, PvP or not. And it is not just young kids but people in all ages.
That's what happens when all of the industry adapts just one style of game design from 2004.
8 years later the only interesting thing to do in the game is to spam chat with creative, albeit a little canned, banter.
Because there's honestly nothing new to do otherwise.
Interesting Can't say I disagree. "boredom" a definite factor to look into...
But, there's always been boredom. Actually, there was MORE boredom for a lot of players in some if not all of the old school titles. I did play FFXI. I loved it. LOVED it. Great community, great group dynamics, great progression and time/risk/effort = reward system... But there was plenty of boredom. Same goes for earth and beyond, eq, uo, anarchy.. etc.. there's always downtime back then, but what we did with the time was a lot less ... i dunno.. brutal?
People talk smack to eachother in games, i know. We all do, and irl, when in presence of friends or other gamers in general, i would hope that like me, the smack talk is on a somewhat friendly if not totally friendly manner. Otherwise, what's the point?
You want to REALLY piss someone off? Make them mad? ("bro") Why? What's funny about taking the fun out of a videogame for someone?
I guess I'm more just wondering what others think about the "why" of it. Why is boredom a vessel to insults in this case?
I think that maybe, like others have said as well, a hard to ignore example of this habitat is the current trends in the pvp approach? More specifically, the rift between the "two opposing teams; PVErs vs PVPers"
Not that I don't enjoy pvp in certain games. I love pvp "when done [right]" but I don't feel that I should have to choose between either or.
What do you think?
I agree completely. I feel the same way with regards to not having to choose.
90% of the time, I'm not in the mood to PVP.
But, every once in a while I feel the itch.
I get plenty of competition in martial arts.
The person I compete with the most, though is myself. (Am I better today than yesterday?)
I don't feel the need as much in a game.
It's not about fighting, it's about balance. It's not about enlightenment, it's about balance. It's not about balance.
im blunt straightforward and often "rude" in real life and on the internet. people dont retaliate in the way you imagine in real life... pussies on the internet are pussies in real life. i dont what kind of logic makes you think a pussy on the internet somehow becomes a toughguy IRL...
personally i feel soceity has become a bunch of whining PC wimps that dont understand that forcing people to shutup comes at the price of freedom and liberty.
when i grew up schools didnt make a huge fuss about bullying. people just had to grow a pair and man up. . people make fun of me all the time, i have never once ever felt depressed or sad, idgaf. i encourage my family/friends to be straightforward even if it means being rude or potentially hurtful and i appreciate that.
what i find really funny is that the anti insult crowd often insult the people who they label as insulters calling them things like "keyboard warriors", "pathetic IRL" etc etc. a bit hypocritical aye? if the insulters are so pathetic why are people affected by what they say?
im blunt straightforward and often "rude" in real life and on the internet. people dont retaliate in the way you imagine in real life... pussies on the internet are pussies in real life. i dont what kind of logic makes you think a pussy on the internet somehow becomes a toughguy IRL...
personally i feel soceity has become a bunch of whining PC wimps that dont understand that forcing people to shutup comes at the price of freedom and liberty.
when i grew up schools didnt make a huge fuss about bullying. people just had to grow a pair and man up. . people make fun of me all the time, i have never once ever felt depressed or sad, idgaf. i encourage my family/friends to be straightforward even if it means being rude or potentially hurtful and i appreciate that.
what i find really funny is that the anti insult crowd often insult the people who they label as insulters calling them things like "keyboard warriors", "pathetic IRL" etc etc. a bit hypocritical aye? if the insulters are so pathetic why are people affected by what they say?
TLDR: grow a pair
Not bad advice really.
I never had a problem with it because I never took it very serious. Any part of the game where I needed cooler heads to communicate with idiot-free I generally had control over or hung out with the type that didn't do so.
Public chats are there to be disabled. Honestly if you don't uncheck their boxes and just watch offended; then it's 51% your fault for being offended.
I played wow from the latter part of vanilla through a good part of cataclism. (With a few breaks now and then) I never really got a lot of insults thrown my way.
I usuallly find a guild with some sort of rules of conduct. The people that join those guilds arn't usually the type to insult that much or they don't last long in the guild. I very seldom watch trade chat unless I am bored. I don't throw many insults out and do my best to hang around people in the game that are the same way.
WoW is supposed to have the worst chat but I either was too busy looking at guild chat or I just didn't participate when a dungeon finder party broke into a bunch of insults.
Suggestions:
1) Join a good guild
2) Don't start insults, (Usually the people who start the name calling, are the first and loudest to complain when they get insulted back)
3) (For Wow) If two people in your dungeon finder group start name calling, the group is going to fail anyway, just leave the group and join another one when you can.
4) Be respectful of others, don't go into a dungeon way under geared or in only PVP gear. If it is your first time in the dungeon. Tell the group!!! Say hello. Don't roll on gear for your off spec, if someone in the group can use it for their main spec. It is all just MMO common courtesy.
Finally: Some people are jerks; some people are mirrors. You can't control the jerks but you can control the mirrors.
I write it off as attention seeking wanna-be alpha males competing for dominance.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
I'd like to think that the assholes aren't quite as numerous as you make it sound. But they're a lot more visible than the civilized adults, so a relatively small number of assholes can dominate a community.
Originally posted by Amorzka It does seem to be the pattern doesn't it? Not just in game land but in the real-life area as well.
Have we become so disconnected from each other?
Yes. People think manners are outdated and respect is a long forgotten concept. The anonymity of the internet give people the freedom to act however they wish and you can see how many people choose to act.
We have become more connected in that distances have been cut down to almost nothing now with our many forms of instant communication. We have become less connected on a personal level, saving our interactions with others to computers and phone/text messaging instead of good ol' face to face.
If people acted in real life the way they do online, there would be fewer people in the world due to consequences of their own actions.
I guess some people will always attempt to improve their self esteem by belittling others...
I usually can tell when a discussion ceases to be a discussion and quit responding. I could not care less if the person/people I was discussing with feel good or right. Their opinion really does not matter to me.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by bishbosh im blunt straightforward and often "rude" in real life and on the internet. people dont retaliate in the way you imagine in real life... pussies on the internet are pussies in real life. i dont what kind of logic makes you think a pussy on the internet somehow becomes a toughguy IRL...
Because I read this on the internet, it must be true! I guess a bad ass on the internet IS a bad ass in real life
/sarcasm
I'd like to meet you, face to face.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
im blunt straightforward and often "rude" in real life and on the internet. people dont retaliate in the way you imagine in real life... pussies on the internet are pussies in real life. i dont what kind of logic makes you think a pussy on the internet somehow becomes a toughguy IRL...
personally i feel soceity has become a bunch of whining PC wimps that dont understand that forcing people to shutup comes at the price of freedom and liberty.
when i grew up schools didnt make a huge fuss about bullying. people just had to grow a pair and man up. . people make fun of me all the time, i have never once ever felt depressed or sad, idgaf. i encourage my family/friends to be straightforward even if it means being rude or potentially hurtful and i appreciate that.
what i find really funny is that the anti insult crowd often insult the people who they label as insulters calling them things like "keyboard warriors", "pathetic IRL" etc etc. a bit hypocritical aye? if the insulters are so pathetic why are people affected by what they say?
TLDR: grow a pair
Putting aside the tough guy routine, you do raise a few good points.
The pendulum has swung too far in the other direction with bullying. Maybe one day it'll come back to the middle. The school yard should not be The Lord of the Flies rules but we don't have to coddle kids either. How many Columbine or Virginia Tech incidents is the public willing to tolerate?
Insulting and whining about the people doing the insulting is ironic. Words only have as much meaning as we give them.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
You cannot play a game that is aggressively marketed towards self-centered a-holes without running into a bunch of self-centered a-holes.
1. Accomplishment is rewarded in objective terms primarily so that you can compare your dick size with other nerds. You are a good player if you have a lot of brownie points and loot. The game is kept overly simple (Tank/DPS/Healer) so that it's abundantly clear who is doing well. Heaven forbid that somebody design a game where the goals are less clear-cut. That would fuck everything up. Players that find enjoyment screwing around within the game world are frowned upon as "casual".
2. In an MMO, insufferable nerds who lack any kind of real-world skills can find something at which they can excel. Sure that "thing" is utterly useless, but these people have never excelled at anything, so it's a big deal to them. Remember that clown in high school who couldn't land a girlfriend for a very long time.... and when he finanly DID, he instantly became an insufferable jackass? That's every MMO player hitting max-level for the first time.
3. You can make a little club of people to further establish yourself as a more important than the "newbs". The primary function of a guild is social masturbation. By getting into a little club with other fucks, you can band together to score more reasons to look down on some guy who was just looking to kill a couple hours. Together, you can progression raid and ostracise those whose motor-reflexes failed that one time, thus depriving you of some retarded imaginary goody.
You do the math. These people are not worth tolerating.
It's people with fueled anger that toss it out online to make a victim feel the way he did. It's like virus. But I play their game so I won't shut up and make them feel better when they shouldn't.
Really, this is just killing online gaming all together.
It seems to me that the only enjoyment people find anymore is insulting other people. That's disgusting and sad.
When did this happen? I know that "people have always been [insert candy-coated negative label]" but it's just gotten so bad now that I find it UNAVOIDABLE as long as I'm at a computer.
Why is it that the only feedback from others is negative? Why are people so quick to jump to the chance to insult or belittle others?
Why is it that when I'm reading a relevant thread or writing my own that it's more important for readers to respond with things like "too long, didn't read" or "QQ MOAR NOOB" or "lolz you spelled it wrong. stopped reading." or "L2P noobs!" etc??
is this really the only atmosphere available now? This is depressing and It's caused me to not even bother logging on to games anymore...
If someone insults you,then just kill him,he plays his role and you play yours if you cant attack him then you are not playing role playing game.
When reading this thread, which I agree with wholeheartedly BTW, a thought struck me, the people replying to this post, even reading this post are all probably like you, way past twenty, most likely 30+ gamers. So we're slowly drifting into the stereotype of old people sitting on a bench saying, "The young people of today, no respect. When I was young...."
Joking aside, I think there has been a shift in society in general towards self-gratification as the number one priority. I believe that the fact that we cannot see the emotional response that the recipient of our scorching remarks has, numbs us, makes us less able to feel empathy.
In addition media celebrates the a-holes, see one episode of Paradise Hotel and you will know what I am getting at. Kids need role models, and will to some extent copy the behavior of people they consider to be cool, when that person is a rapper whose whole catalogue of songs underline the importance of having the biggest bling, the baddest attitude an treating his ho's and bitches like dirt, some of it will of course rub off. No I won't blame this on Rap music, it's just one avenue and the one that came to me first. The problem is, good role models often come across as a bit prudish and boring.
Still, after working as a temp teacher at a childrens school, I know that the kids are mostly allright, even the bad seeds have good qualities if you take the time to drill through their layers of armor. The problem is, nobody has time anymore, we are rushing about, running from one activity to another, chasing some elusive holy grail that will make our lives perfect.
With both parents working, we have become reliant on schools, kindergartens and out of school programs to raise our kids, problem is, it's not their job! Parents and family are the only good role models a kid will accept without questioning, and the only ones that can make them see that good behavior is actually a reward in itself, making someone else feel good is actually a more valuable skill then being able to strip someone of their self-worth in two seconds flat.
As a father myself I know all to well the struggle between my altruistic side, that really want to be a good father and the egotistical side that would really like some time to myself to play the latest game. It's a battle, and all you can hope for is that you are able to strike a good balance and that you somehow are able to pass those ideals that you hold dear onto your kids.
Sigh, it's strange world, and I guess it will only grow stranger. Do the best you can, and every time you make someone smile, consider it a victory for the good side.
Really, this is just killing online gaming all together.
It seems to me that the only enjoyment people find anymore is insulting other people. That's disgusting and sad.
When did this happen? I know that "people have always been [insert candy-coated negative label]" but it's just gotten so bad now that I find it UNAVOIDABLE as long as I'm at a computer.
Why is it that the only feedback from others is negative? Why are people so quick to jump to the chance to insult or belittle others?
Why is it that when I'm reading a relevant thread or writing my own that it's more important for readers to respond with things like "too long, didn't read" or "QQ MOAR NOOB" or "lolz you spelled it wrong. stopped reading." or "L2P noobs!" etc??
is this really the only atmosphere available now? This is depressing and It's caused me to not even bother logging on to games anymore...
lol
Originally posted by Arskaaa "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
im blunt straightforward and often "rude" in real life and on the internet. people dont retaliate in the way you imagine in real life... pussies on the internet are pussies in real life. i dont what kind of logic makes you think a pussy on the internet somehow becomes a toughguy IRL...
personally i feel soceity has become a bunch of whining PC wimps that dont understand that forcing people to shutup comes at the price of freedom and liberty.
when i grew up schools didnt make a huge fuss about bullying. people just had to grow a pair and man up. . people make fun of me all the time, i have never once ever felt depressed or sad, idgaf. i encourage my family/friends to be straightforward even if it means being rude or potentially hurtful and i appreciate that.
what i find really funny is that the anti insult crowd often insult the people who they label as insulters calling them things like "keyboard warriors", "pathetic IRL" etc etc. a bit hypocritical aye? if the insulters are so pathetic why are people affected by what they say?
TLDR: grow a pair
Putting aside the tough guy routine, you do raise a few good points.
The pendulum has swung too far in the other direction with bullying. Maybe one day it'll come back to the middle. The school yard should not be The Lord of the Flies rules but we don't have to coddle kids either. How many Columbine or Virginia Tech incidents is the public willing to tolerate?
Insulting and whining about the people doing the insulting is ironic. Words only have as much meaning as we give them.
Neither of the columbine or virginia tech perpetrators were subject to any recent bullying. They had underlying mental health issues that were not adressed properly. The virginia tech guy wrote some pretty weird shit before doing the shooting and he was supposed to be going to councilling.
Bullying is pretty much dead by the time that people are in college anyway. heck bullying was dead during the senior years of high school for me, everyone had become grown ups, they still hated each other but they did it secretely.
Maybe the perpertrators were subject to bullying during their younger years but there is no proof. i dont think there is enough evidence out there to allow us to link bullying to college/school shootings. the occurence of such shootings is so rare/statistically insignificant that it would be hard to link them with anything... it would be like finding a a couple of guys that suffered heart attacks after riding a fixed gear bike while listening to looney tunes theme song on 3rd gen ipod and saying that heart attacks are caused by riding a fixed gear bike while listening to looney tunes theme song on 3rd gen ipod.
im blunt straightforward and often "rude" in real life and on the internet. people dont retaliate in the way you imagine in real life... pussies on the internet are pussies in real life. i dont what kind of logic makes you think a pussy on the internet somehow becomes a toughguy IRL...
personally i feel soceity has become a bunch of whining PC wimps that dont understand that forcing people to shutup comes at the price of freedom and liberty.
when i grew up schools didnt make a huge fuss about bullying. people just had to grow a pair and man up. . people make fun of me all the time, i have never once ever felt depressed or sad, idgaf. i encourage my family/friends to be straightforward even if it means being rude or potentially hurtful and i appreciate that.
what i find really funny is that the anti insult crowd often insult the people who they label as insulters calling them things like "keyboard warriors", "pathetic IRL" etc etc. a bit hypocritical aye? if the insulters are so pathetic why are people affected by what they say?
TLDR: grow a pair
Why do you feel that being rude is a good quality?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Not hypocrite, just alarmist + getting older perhaps.
Would you like to buy a cane? Perfect for waving about while standing upon your front lawn yelling at the DamnKids. Required accessory for the reactionary uniform.
Note: everyone is getting older. This thread (or one just like it) pops up every weekend, roughly. Us Old Guys gather and rabblerabblerabble a bit, conclude that it's hopeless and the damn kids are just gonna win, and retire back into our shacks.
But if it comforts you any; people have been making roughly the same complaints about the "younger generation" for at least 2500 years now.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Comments
Schadenfreude is real and the reason why people are doing this in MMOs (or any game for that matter) is it works 100% of the time. It's infallible. Someone will take the bait or get mad and the other person get enjoyment out of it.
The only real fix for this is for every gamer to realize that they're being trolled / baited and never respond, but that will not realistically happen. Therefore, embrace the times and become a predator, or go in seclusion by forming your niche guild.
Game design has very little to do with this. It will happen in WoW (Trade chat) and EVE (all the colourful forms of griefing that is part of the game). If anything, smaller games with more established admins (MUDs) can help mitigate the problem.
That's what happens when all of the industry adapts just one style of game design from 2004.
8 years later the only interesting thing to do in the game is to spam chat with creative, albeit a little canned, banter.
Because there's honestly nothing new to do otherwise.
a yo ho ho
Not just in games it is in real life. You always find good folks and bad folks. The bad ones are so detached from reality that they think nothing of trampling on somebody else's feelings. In games I think it comes down to that person thinking he/she is safe in doing whatever without real ramifications. In real life they do the same actions, and unless somebody actually checks them on it they continue with the anti social behavior.
All one has to do is look at the personal insults that have happened over several video games that are competing against each other, I.E. gw2 and swtor. This is what society has devolved into because some folks do not have a moral compass any more, and those well I do report them even if it is not my post they decided to hit.
Some folks blame pvp, I don't I blame their parents for not training them up better. If you don't grow up learning right from wrong, how are you supposed to gain a moral compass. Used to be games had communities and that is no longer true, you even see the fighting, and flaming between folks playing the same games.
All I know is that I didn´t use any kind of ignore list until mid 00s and now it fills out quickly...
So yeah, the tone in the games have become a lot worse nowadays. But I have noted the same thing in forum and any places people can comment on the net, not really sure why though.
A theory is that it gives people with low self esteem the chanse to bring other with little chanse of real retribution, people behaving that way IRL would get beaten up a lot.
But I have no real theory why it have gone up so much recently, if it just was in MMOs you could blame Wow but it is everywhere and it isn´t just because geeks used the net before, it didn´t really start until 6 years or so ago.
I don´t think so, people are not ruder to me at the pub or at a store now then they were 10 or 20 years ago, it is just on the internet.
It surely isn't PvPs fault at least, it is all over the net and in every game, PvP or not. And it is not just young kids but people in all ages.
Interesting
Can't say I disagree. "boredom" a definite factor to look into...
But, there's always been boredom. Actually, there was MORE boredom for a lot of players in some if not all of the old school titles. I did play FFXI. I loved it. LOVED it. Great community, great group dynamics, great progression and time/risk/effort = reward system... But there was plenty of boredom. Same goes for earth and beyond, eq, uo, anarchy.. etc.. there's always downtime back then, but what we did with the time was a lot less ... i dunno.. brutal?
People talk smack to eachother in games, i know. We all do, and irl, when in presence of friends or other gamers in general, i would hope that like me, the smack talk is on a somewhat friendly if not totally friendly manner. Otherwise, what's the point?
You want to REALLY piss someone off? Make them mad? ("bro") Why? What's funny about taking the fun out of a videogame for someone?
I guess I'm more just wondering what others think about the "why" of it. Why is boredom a vessel to insults in this case?
I think that maybe, like others have said as well, a hard to ignore example of this habitat is the current trends in the pvp approach? More specifically, the rift between the "two opposing teams; PVErs vs PVPers"
Not that I don't enjoy pvp in certain games. I love pvp "when done [right]" but I don't feel that I should have to choose between either or.
What do you think?
I agree completely. I feel the same way with regards to not having to choose.
90% of the time, I'm not in the mood to PVP.
But, every once in a while I feel the itch.
I get plenty of competition in martial arts.
The person I compete with the most, though is myself. (Am I better today than yesterday?)
I don't feel the need as much in a game.
It's not about fighting, it's about balance. It's not about enlightenment, it's about balance. It's not about balance.
i break all the sterotypes in this thread
im blunt straightforward and often "rude" in real life and on the internet. people dont retaliate in the way you imagine in real life... pussies on the internet are pussies in real life. i dont what kind of logic makes you think a pussy on the internet somehow becomes a toughguy IRL...
personally i feel soceity has become a bunch of whining PC wimps that dont understand that forcing people to shutup comes at the price of freedom and liberty.
when i grew up schools didnt make a huge fuss about bullying. people just had to grow a pair and man up. . people make fun of me all the time, i have never once ever felt depressed or sad, idgaf. i encourage my family/friends to be straightforward even if it means being rude or potentially hurtful and i appreciate that.
what i find really funny is that the anti insult crowd often insult the people who they label as insulters calling them things like "keyboard warriors", "pathetic IRL" etc etc. a bit hypocritical aye? if the insulters are so pathetic why are people affected by what they say?
TLDR: grow a pair
Not bad advice really.
I never had a problem with it because I never took it very serious. Any part of the game where I needed cooler heads to communicate with idiot-free I generally had control over or hung out with the type that didn't do so.
Public chats are there to be disabled. Honestly if you don't uncheck their boxes and just watch offended; then it's 51% your fault for being offended.
a yo ho ho
I played wow from the latter part of vanilla through a good part of cataclism. (With a few breaks now and then) I never really got a lot of insults thrown my way.
I usuallly find a guild with some sort of rules of conduct. The people that join those guilds arn't usually the type to insult that much or they don't last long in the guild. I very seldom watch trade chat unless I am bored. I don't throw many insults out and do my best to hang around people in the game that are the same way.
WoW is supposed to have the worst chat but I either was too busy looking at guild chat or I just didn't participate when a dungeon finder party broke into a bunch of insults.
Suggestions:
1) Join a good guild
2) Don't start insults, (Usually the people who start the name calling, are the first and loudest to complain when they get insulted back)
3) (For Wow) If two people in your dungeon finder group start name calling, the group is going to fail anyway, just leave the group and join another one when you can.
4) Be respectful of others, don't go into a dungeon way under geared or in only PVP gear. If it is your first time in the dungeon. Tell the group!!! Say hello. Don't roll on gear for your off spec, if someone in the group can use it for their main spec. It is all just MMO common courtesy.
Finally: Some people are jerks; some people are mirrors. You can't control the jerks but you can control the mirrors.
I write it off as attention seeking wanna-be alpha males competing for dominance.
We have become more connected in that distances have been cut down to almost nothing now with our many forms of instant communication. We have become less connected on a personal level, saving our interactions with others to computers and phone/text messaging instead of good ol' face to face.
If people acted in real life the way they do online, there would be fewer people in the world due to consequences of their own actions.
I guess some people will always attempt to improve their self esteem by belittling others...
I usually can tell when a discussion ceases to be a discussion and quit responding. I could not care less if the person/people I was discussing with feel good or right. Their opinion really does not matter to me.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
/sarcasm
I'd like to meet you, face to face.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Putting aside the tough guy routine, you do raise a few good points.
The pendulum has swung too far in the other direction with bullying. Maybe one day it'll come back to the middle. The school yard should not be The Lord of the Flies rules but we don't have to coddle kids either. How many Columbine or Virginia Tech incidents is the public willing to tolerate?
Insulting and whining about the people doing the insulting is ironic. Words only have as much meaning as we give them.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
You cannot play a game that is aggressively marketed towards self-centered a-holes without running into a bunch of self-centered a-holes.
1. Accomplishment is rewarded in objective terms primarily so that you can compare your dick size with other nerds. You are a good player if you have a lot of brownie points and loot. The game is kept overly simple (Tank/DPS/Healer) so that it's abundantly clear who is doing well. Heaven forbid that somebody design a game where the goals are less clear-cut. That would fuck everything up. Players that find enjoyment screwing around within the game world are frowned upon as "casual".
2. In an MMO, insufferable nerds who lack any kind of real-world skills can find something at which they can excel. Sure that "thing" is utterly useless, but these people have never excelled at anything, so it's a big deal to them. Remember that clown in high school who couldn't land a girlfriend for a very long time.... and when he finanly DID, he instantly became an insufferable jackass? That's every MMO player hitting max-level for the first time.
3. You can make a little club of people to further establish yourself as a more important than the "newbs". The primary function of a guild is social masturbation. By getting into a little club with other fucks, you can band together to score more reasons to look down on some guy who was just looking to kill a couple hours. Together, you can progression raid and ostracise those whose motor-reflexes failed that one time, thus depriving you of some retarded imaginary goody.
You do the math. These people are not worth tolerating.
It's people with fueled anger that toss it out online to make a victim feel the way he did. It's like virus. But I play their game so I won't shut up and make them feel better when they shouldn't.
If someone insults you,then just kill him,he plays his role and you play yours if you cant attack him then you are not playing role playing game.
Let's internet
When reading this thread, which I agree with wholeheartedly BTW, a thought struck me, the people replying to this post, even reading this post are all probably like you, way past twenty, most likely 30+ gamers. So we're slowly drifting into the stereotype of old people sitting on a bench saying, "The young people of today, no respect. When I was young...."
Joking aside, I think there has been a shift in society in general towards self-gratification as the number one priority. I believe that the fact that we cannot see the emotional response that the recipient of our scorching remarks has, numbs us, makes us less able to feel empathy.
In addition media celebrates the a-holes, see one episode of Paradise Hotel and you will know what I am getting at. Kids need role models, and will to some extent copy the behavior of people they consider to be cool, when that person is a rapper whose whole catalogue of songs underline the importance of having the biggest bling, the baddest attitude an treating his ho's and bitches like dirt, some of it will of course rub off. No I won't blame this on Rap music, it's just one avenue and the one that came to me first. The problem is, good role models often come across as a bit prudish and boring.
Still, after working as a temp teacher at a childrens school, I know that the kids are mostly allright, even the bad seeds have good qualities if you take the time to drill through their layers of armor. The problem is, nobody has time anymore, we are rushing about, running from one activity to another, chasing some elusive holy grail that will make our lives perfect.
With both parents working, we have become reliant on schools, kindergartens and out of school programs to raise our kids, problem is, it's not their job! Parents and family are the only good role models a kid will accept without questioning, and the only ones that can make them see that good behavior is actually a reward in itself, making someone else feel good is actually a more valuable skill then being able to strip someone of their self-worth in two seconds flat.
As a father myself I know all to well the struggle between my altruistic side, that really want to be a good father and the egotistical side that would really like some time to myself to play the latest game. It's a battle, and all you can hope for is that you are able to strike a good balance and that you somehow are able to pass those ideals that you hold dear onto your kids.
Sigh, it's strange world, and I guess it will only grow stranger. Do the best you can, and every time you make someone smile, consider it a victory for the good side.
Conlai Darkmoor
lol
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
Use the ignore function Luke...
Neither of the columbine or virginia tech perpetrators were subject to any recent bullying. They had underlying mental health issues that were not adressed properly. The virginia tech guy wrote some pretty weird shit before doing the shooting and he was supposed to be going to councilling.
Bullying is pretty much dead by the time that people are in college anyway. heck bullying was dead during the senior years of high school for me, everyone had become grown ups, they still hated each other but they did it secretely.
Maybe the perpertrators were subject to bullying during their younger years but there is no proof. i dont think there is enough evidence out there to allow us to link bullying to college/school shootings. the occurence of such shootings is so rare/statistically insignificant that it would be hard to link them with anything... it would be like finding a a couple of guys that suffered heart attacks after riding a fixed gear bike while listening to looney tunes theme song on 3rd gen ipod and saying that heart attacks are caused by riding a fixed gear bike while listening to looney tunes theme song on 3rd gen ipod.
Why do you feel that being rude is a good quality?
It's not MMOs, it's just the Internet period.
Surely you've been here on a weekend before?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Not hypocrite, just alarmist + getting older perhaps.
Would you like to buy a cane? Perfect for waving about while standing upon your front lawn yelling at the DamnKids. Required accessory for the reactionary uniform.
Note: everyone is getting older. This thread (or one just like it) pops up every weekend, roughly. Us Old Guys gather and rabblerabblerabble a bit, conclude that it's hopeless and the damn kids are just gonna win, and retire back into our shacks.
But if it comforts you any; people have been making roughly the same complaints about the "younger generation" for at least 2500 years now.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.