Edit: Also, "pure profit revenue?" Lol. They have *just as many costs to uphold as a P2P game, so that's kind of a ridiculous claim there.
The term was coined by the industry itself. It refers to the fact that a hat sold in their cash shop is pure profit, as opposed to the expense of developing playable conent.
In the future, if you are unfamiliar with a term, my advice would be to ask the person what they meant before throwing around words like 'ridiculous' and making snorting judgements based on not knowing.
IMO no MMO has to go f2p but it should give value = to what the current market is willing to give. I would keep playing swtor for about 5-8 bucks a month. That's about how much people spend on average in a cash shop with f2p. I know some less and some more but it is a fact when EQ1 came out networks were a huge cost and now a footnote in the quarterly meetings. The 15 a month needs to go.
IMO no MMO has to go f2p but it should give value = to what the current market is willing to give. I would keep playing swtor for about 5-8 bucks a month. That's about how much people spend on average in a cash shop with f2p. I know some less and some more but it is a fact when EQ1 came out networks were a huge cost and now a footnote in the quarterly meetings. The 15 a month needs to go.
They are so stubborn they will ride this one out until it's 5 guys keeping it alive and the janitor doing server resets for maintence. they have no clue whats wrong becuase they avoid the forum at any cost. in doing that they don't see the intelligent players who have listed why this poorly executed Wow clone is dying.
It's not just a case of stupidity it has to be something else. these people have stellar education's at what they do. they lack one once of common sense as to why it's failing. and again, they avoid any real answers we asked them.
Rght now if they went fully free to play what little community thats sticking in hopes they get something that at least resembles star wars instead of warcraft, they would leave in a mass exodus of rage due to F2P
Edit: Also, "pure profit revenue?" Lol. They have *just as many costs to uphold as a P2P game, so that's kind of a ridiculous claim there.
The term was coined by the industry itself. It refers to the fact that a hat sold in their cash shop is pure profit, as opposed to the expense of developing playable conent.
In the future, if you are unfamiliar with a term, my advice would be to ask the person what they meant before throwing around words like 'ridiculous' and making snorting judgements based on not knowing.
Its ridiculous. Someone got paid a lot of money to code in that hat. Someone needs to keep getting paid a lot of money to make sure all the bugs with that hat get taken care of. Someone has to pay the people to do that. So its not "pure" profit although done correctly it should have a healthy profit margin. Key being, done correctly. Bioware has trouble finding its butt with both hands when it comes to MMOs.
Edit: Also, "pure profit revenue?" Lol. They have *just as many costs to uphold as a P2P game, so that's kind of a ridiculous claim there.
The term was coined by the industry itself. It refers to the fact that a hat sold in their cash shop is pure profit, as opposed to the expense of developing playable conent.
In the future, if you are unfamiliar with a term, my advice would be to ask the person what they meant before throwing around words like 'ridiculous' and making snorting judgements based on not knowing.
Its ridiculous. Someone got paid a lot of money to code in that hat. Someone needs to keep getting paid a lot of money to make sure all the bugs with that hat get taken care of. Someone has to pay the people to do that. So its not "pure" profit although done correctly it should have a healthy profit margin. Key being, done correctly. Bioware has trouble finding its butt with both hands when it comes to MMOs.
Not only that, but the money made from the hat in your example doesnt *only* go towards the production of that hat. It still goes to the production of content in place of subs.
Edit: Also, "pure profit revenue?" Lol. They have *just as many costs to uphold as a P2P game, so that's kind of a ridiculous claim there.
The term was coined by the industry itself. It refers to the fact that a hat sold in their cash shop is pure profit, as opposed to the expense of developing playable conent.
In the future, if you are unfamiliar with a term, my advice would be to ask the person what they meant before throwing around words like 'ridiculous' and making snorting judgements based on not knowing.
Its ridiculous. Someone got paid a lot of money to code in that hat. Someone needs to keep getting paid a lot of money to make sure all the bugs with that hat get taken care of. Someone has to pay the people to do that. So its not "pure" profit although done correctly it should have a healthy profit margin. Key being, done correctly. Bioware has trouble finding its butt with both hands when it comes to MMOs.
/sigh...
It is obviously refering to the minimal amount of time it takes to design a skin and throw it on the market place against the real time investment that making real interactive playable content takes. Compared to the revenue generated by each hat, the guy drawing the skin really isn't paid 'a lot of money'. The profit margins are insane for virtual items, which is why the F2P model is being pushed so fervently by the industry ofc. Minimal investment for maximum return, which is really all the term means.
Like I say, it is an industry coined term. I first heard it used openly by EA. You think it's 'ridiculous'? So what? Objection noted, your view filed away.
If you are struggling with what I said, and really cannot see how the term is used, then ok... we will just accept you think it isn't a literal term and move on.
Have to say, this forum can grind you down with pendantism
I woiuld like to add their is a lot more wrong with this game then the P2P model. Another gear grind game (make PvP and PvE more to do with skill and fun then gear progression) Unblanced classes, unbalance factions and no 3rd faction, classes to structured, no reason to go back to planets, no dual or quad spec, UI sucks and badly executed customization and no add ons, ships feel impersoanl (why cant I mount my first lightsaber on the wall?) I could go on and on but in the end I wonder why I was given a 1/2 baked game? Would I resub with the current pay model? No. Mayb e if it was 5 bucks a month or f2p, then I may give it a 2nd go when things are fixed and polished.
Typically going F2P does not turn around games that are in the decline. Tons bought it, tons played it... Now they are done with it and moved on to other things. It will never be the massive continual money maker that they desired. Better luck next time. Bet Lucas Arts wished they hadn't killed off the niche title SWG now. Since practically none of those people moved to TOR. Bad decisions all around.
In my eyes, it might as well be f2p. I won't send these guys one more penny, since with my playstyle, I'm not one of their "most valued players," though I was with them all the way from the beginning until their insulting pronouncement.
Many may see this as petty, but it's just one more mistake BW made on top of all the others.
f2p will not fix swtor lol. The problem is james ohlen and gabe ametegelo and the amount of incompetence and misunderstanding of what an mmo is. Swtor will never escape the ghost of swg.
Heres why f2p wont save swtor
1.Swtor was and is still bieng developed as if it were a single player rpg ( I.E kotor 3)
2. The majority of worlds are to linear and designed with a single player rpg in mind not an mmo. (95% of players prefer sandbox - james ohlen were making a game based on what players want)
3. No server forums - this really hurt swtor from the get go a large amount of people use the server forums in mmo's to find guilds info on events and more. Bioware starts off telling the "community" to have fansites be server forums. Then 3 months in bioware decides to half @ss it and make semi server forums all this really hurt and screwed over a lot of there then customers
4. Ilum and open world pvp. Due to the hero engine not being able to handle a large raid fights this suposed "amazing" area got instanced to hell then shut down. 6 months in the game is nothing but 4 instanced pvp zones that you cant even choose still.
5. starfox space combat on rails lol hello swtor 1995 is calling and nintendo wants there rails back
6. Bad PR i have never seen so much money spent on bad pr with "shoulda coulda woulda" interviews and flat out lies and arrogance.
How to fix swtor
1. Get rid of james ohlen/gabe ametegelo. These 2 idiots have hurt the game more then wow or any other game could ever do.
2. Complete worlds redesign (this is not realistic to ask for but it needs to be done) I.E sandbox worlds (non linear)
3. Lose the space rails HUGE space revamp
4. Hire people to make an mmo not a single player rpg with multiplayer add ons. Swtor has never had people who understand this.
5. create a 3rd faction I.E hutt cartel/revanite followers. This will make pvp a lot better
Sadly i dont think any of this will ever happen due to how incompetent and ingorant bioware/ea is to thier audience. What bioware shold have done is make dragon age online first then swtor. B/c sadly swtor is biowares test dummy of how to make an mmo
I don't usually quote a post this long but this guy really got it all right. I would also add real lightsabres instead of glo-stick wiffle bats, PvP space combat with a real ship market and really alien races instead of minor cosmetic changes to humans. The combat is really crap, too but I just can't put my finger on how to fix it.
LOTRO's F2P hybrid would be great with SWTOR and I hope it happens.
That said, the game is in such horrible shape, if you turned it 100% F2P tomorrow, it would not hold onto core players. The issues the game has are woven deep in Bioware's discredited "fourth pillar" concept of "story." There is no endgame, rolling alts isn't endgame. Legacy systems are carrots to try to force you to play the way Bioware wants, not something that fixes the game. Legacy only matters to those who have already burned-through the game and are left not caring anymore.
The game's core concept and foundation is so flawed, they are effectively crippled for the next year and a half. It will take that long to un-screw the intended path the game would take, retask content to F2P, etc. And the lack of improvements means more players will drop out. They can't even sell an expansion, because nobody will pay for a retail expansion when they failed so badly with the initial content.
Nope. They are in race against time, with way too much to get done. The game will keep shrinking massively for the rest of the year, even with 15 levels of stuff.
Comstrike ************************** Founder, Leader, www.SonsOfNumenor.com LOTRO - SW.ToR (Yes, we are recruiting)
There's huge room for improvement on LotRO's formula, though. When you subscribe to LotRO, you still see ads everywhere. You can't open a menu or turn a corner without being bombarded by messages telling you how much better your experience would be if you bought more stuff, even if you already own the stuff. One of the major perks of pure subscription models is that you don't have to think about anything but the game when you play, which just isn't how it works in LotRO.
There's definitely room for subscritpion/F2P multi-plan systems in the genre, but I hope the best of such currently available models is not the best we'll see in the future. Micropayment/subscription hybrids still lean far too heavily in the micropayment direction; until a company realizes why subscription models are popular with the people who prefer them, hybrids won't capture their business.
LOTRO's F2P hybrid would be great with SWTOR and I hope it happens.
That said, the game is in such horrible shape, if you turned it 100% F2P tomorrow, it would not hold onto core players. The issues the game has are woven deep in Bioware's discredited "fourth pillar" concept of "story." There is no endgame, rolling alts isn't endgame. Legacy systems are carrots to try to force you to play the way Bioware wants, not something that fixes the game. Legacy only matters to those who have already burned-through the game and are left not caring anymore.
The game's core concept and foundation is so flawed, they are effectively crippled for the next year and a half. It will take that long to un-screw the intended path the game would take, retask content to F2P, etc. And the lack of improvements means more players will drop out. They can't even sell an expansion, because nobody will pay for a retail expansion when they failed so badly with the initial content.
Nope. They are in race against time, with way too much to get done. The game will keep shrinking massively for the rest of the year, even with 15 levels of stuff.
Yeah that legacy is a pos. I still cant believe that they put that legacy before server transfers and all else i hope the person that triaged for bioware doesnt work for a hospital ever b/c they would put people with stomache aches ahead of someone running into the er with an nearly amputated arm please sit here while adress this persons stomache lol.
I still dont see what the point of an expansion is when theres crap end game now? So what youll be level 55 or 60 with what 1 new op and 1 new warzone lol.
How james ohlen and gabe got to keep thier job is mindboggling
we dont want it to be f2p because then it would be a pay to win game an it would suck look what f2p did to star trek online it sucks to play now look at lotro that sucks too all im saying is F2P theres a pattern here an its not for the best.
AGAIN F2P BAD IDEA DONT DO IT BIOWARE ITS NOT WORTH IT, i dont see it happening myself theres loads of content lined up for years down the line its £9-$15 its cheap for what your getting
f2p isnt for this game dont care what anyone else says you go f2p an you will kill the game
the pattern is greed lotro is a huge example of success leading to massive greed
F2P isn't "free". I do not care if you never spend any money in a so-called "free to play" MARKETED game. Someone IS paying. Those that do pay are the ones that pay for those that don't. Do you think that those PAYING are getting their money's worth when THEY are paying for everything? I recently read a quote from the CEO of EA that commented on the VALUE of marketing "f2p" games. According to him the average spend by PAYING customers in f2p games annually comes to around $5,000 person. Why? Because people do not have the willpower to close their wallets and realise that they are getting ripped off. I will never PAY for a f2p game...ever. I will also never so the full benefit of a PAYING customer in f2p because I willl not be ripped off. F2P is a scam. Run from it as fast as you can.
If EA dont plan to make SWTOR F2P then they better start looking for an Asian publisher to sell SWTOR (and BIOWARE) to...... maybe Perfect World Entertainment? the savior of failed sub based mmos.
I really want this game F2P because i like it and want to go back to it but i wont pay a sub for it when i can have a much better mmo with no sub AND a much better mmo with a sub.
Comments
The term was coined by the industry itself. It refers to the fact that a hat sold in their cash shop is pure profit, as opposed to the expense of developing playable conent.
In the future, if you are unfamiliar with a term, my advice would be to ask the person what they meant before throwing around words like 'ridiculous' and making snorting judgements based on not knowing.
Another article pushing SWTOR F2P.
Would be nice to see an article on what perks players that bought $150 CE games 7 months ago get out of this F2P debacle.
If done right it could save SWTOR from sinking.
Guild Wars 2 Youtube Croatian Maniacs
My Guild Wars titles
They are so stubborn they will ride this one out until it's 5 guys keeping it alive and the janitor doing server resets for maintence. they have no clue whats wrong becuase they avoid the forum at any cost. in doing that they don't see the intelligent players who have listed why this poorly executed Wow clone is dying.
It's not just a case of stupidity it has to be something else. these people have stellar education's at what they do. they lack one once of common sense as to why it's failing. and again, they avoid any real answers we asked them.
Rght now if they went fully free to play what little community thats sticking in hopes they get something that at least resembles star wars instead of warcraft, they would leave in a mass exodus of rage due to F2P
Its ridiculous. Someone got paid a lot of money to code in that hat. Someone needs to keep getting paid a lot of money to make sure all the bugs with that hat get taken care of. Someone has to pay the people to do that. So its not "pure" profit although done correctly it should have a healthy profit margin. Key being, done correctly. Bioware has trouble finding its butt with both hands when it comes to MMOs.
Not only that, but the money made from the hat in your example doesnt *only* go towards the production of that hat. It still goes to the production of content in place of subs.
Also, I don't "snort" judgements.
/sigh...
It is obviously refering to the minimal amount of time it takes to design a skin and throw it on the market place against the real time investment that making real interactive playable content takes. Compared to the revenue generated by each hat, the guy drawing the skin really isn't paid 'a lot of money'. The profit margins are insane for virtual items, which is why the F2P model is being pushed so fervently by the industry ofc. Minimal investment for maximum return, which is really all the term means.
Like I say, it is an industry coined term. I first heard it used openly by EA. You think it's 'ridiculous'? So what? Objection noted, your view filed away.
If you are struggling with what I said, and really cannot see how the term is used, then ok... we will just accept you think it isn't a literal term and move on.
Have to say, this forum can grind you down with pendantism
I woiuld like to add their is a lot more wrong with this game then the P2P model. Another gear grind game (make PvP and PvE more to do with skill and fun then gear progression) Unblanced classes, unbalance factions and no 3rd faction, classes to structured, no reason to go back to planets, no dual or quad spec, UI sucks and badly executed customization and no add ons, ships feel impersoanl (why cant I mount my first lightsaber on the wall?) I could go on and on but in the end I wonder why I was given a 1/2 baked game? Would I resub with the current pay model? No. Mayb e if it was 5 bucks a month or f2p, then I may give it a 2nd go when things are fixed and polished.
Typically going F2P does not turn around games that are in the decline. Tons bought it, tons played it... Now they are done with it and moved on to other things. It will never be the massive continual money maker that they desired. Better luck next time. Bet Lucas Arts wished they hadn't killed off the niche title SWG now. Since practically none of those people moved to TOR. Bad decisions all around.
In my eyes, it might as well be f2p. I won't send these guys one more penny, since with my playstyle, I'm not one of their "most valued players," though I was with them all the way from the beginning until their insulting pronouncement.
Many may see this as petty, but it's just one more mistake BW made on top of all the others.
Free to Play:
A bad game, for free.... but... you have to pay us to access what little content we have. LOLOLOLOLOLOL.
I don't usually quote a post this long but this guy really got it all right. I would also add real lightsabres instead of glo-stick wiffle bats, PvP space combat with a real ship market and really alien races instead of minor cosmetic changes to humans. The combat is really crap, too but I just can't put my finger on how to fix it.
LOTRO's F2P hybrid would be great with SWTOR and I hope it happens.
That said, the game is in such horrible shape, if you turned it 100% F2P tomorrow, it would not hold onto core players. The issues the game has are woven deep in Bioware's discredited "fourth pillar" concept of "story." There is no endgame, rolling alts isn't endgame. Legacy systems are carrots to try to force you to play the way Bioware wants, not something that fixes the game. Legacy only matters to those who have already burned-through the game and are left not caring anymore.
The game's core concept and foundation is so flawed, they are effectively crippled for the next year and a half. It will take that long to un-screw the intended path the game would take, retask content to F2P, etc. And the lack of improvements means more players will drop out. They can't even sell an expansion, because nobody will pay for a retail expansion when they failed so badly with the initial content.
Nope. They are in race against time, with way too much to get done. The game will keep shrinking massively for the rest of the year, even with 15 levels of stuff.
Comstrike
**************************
Founder, Leader, www.SonsOfNumenor.com LOTRO - SW.ToR (Yes, we are recruiting)
There's huge room for improvement on LotRO's formula, though. When you subscribe to LotRO, you still see ads everywhere. You can't open a menu or turn a corner without being bombarded by messages telling you how much better your experience would be if you bought more stuff, even if you already own the stuff. One of the major perks of pure subscription models is that you don't have to think about anything but the game when you play, which just isn't how it works in LotRO.
There's definitely room for subscritpion/F2P multi-plan systems in the genre, but I hope the best of such currently available models is not the best we'll see in the future. Micropayment/subscription hybrids still lean far too heavily in the micropayment direction; until a company realizes why subscription models are popular with the people who prefer them, hybrids won't capture their business.
Star Wars is not about Quest Hubs and fighting packs of roving animals on .
The game is flawed at its core.
It also sure as F isn't about Jedi vs. Sith huttball games.
Yeah that legacy is a pos. I still cant believe that they put that legacy before server transfers and all else i hope the person that triaged for bioware doesnt work for a hospital ever b/c they would put people with stomache aches ahead of someone running into the er with an nearly amputated arm please sit here while adress this persons stomache lol.
I still dont see what the point of an expansion is when theres crap end game now? So what youll be level 55 or 60 with what 1 new op and 1 new warzone lol.
How james ohlen and gabe got to keep thier job is mindboggling
They should consider paying you to play this "game". Might be worth the time then.
the pattern is greed lotro is a huge example of success leading to massive greed
Putrid plague, be gone! I really hope this terrible infection called F2P never gets to swtor, best and most fun game of all times. Imo sure.
they would better make it B2P like GW2 and all these expansions they made they could sell them like DLC on Steam ^^
Exactly this would be a good B2P title at best what it has isn't even as good as GW2 to sell and I am not planning on playing GW2.
F2P isn't "free". I do not care if you never spend any money in a so-called "free to play" MARKETED game. Someone IS paying. Those that do pay are the ones that pay for those that don't. Do you think that those PAYING are getting their money's worth when THEY are paying for everything? I recently read a quote from the CEO of EA that commented on the VALUE of marketing "f2p" games. According to him the average spend by PAYING customers in f2p games annually comes to around $5,000 person. Why? Because people do not have the willpower to close their wallets and realise that they are getting ripped off. I will never PAY for a f2p game...ever. I will also never so the full benefit of a PAYING customer in f2p because I willl not be ripped off. F2P is a scam. Run from it as fast as you can.
Let's party like it is 1863!
If EA dont plan to make SWTOR F2P then they better start looking for an Asian publisher to sell SWTOR (and BIOWARE) to...... maybe Perfect World Entertainment? the savior of failed sub based mmos.
I really want this game F2P because i like it and want to go back to it but i wont pay a sub for it when i can have a much better mmo with no sub AND a much better mmo with a sub.