Is it me or GW2 PAY 2 WIN game?

Adalwulff · July 2012

Originally posted by p_c_sousa
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Dont let them fool you, as soon as GW2 is released buy all the gems you can!

You should do this for at least the first 3-4 months, buy as many gems as you can. Then you will corner the market and be one rich player!!

Then you can sit back and buy everything you need, levels, items, guild stuff, guild levels and whatever else the game offers. The big bonus is that you can achieve max level in just a day or two.

But, now that the secret is out, be sure to buy those gems right away before someone else gets them.

lol. are you trying scam some guys? for support arenanet or just to buy that gems very cheap with gold?

Oh no, I believe I will be very rich if I buy all the gems first, then I will buy out every P2W item, and buff my guild in the first week. I'll probably spend my whole paycheck, but I dont care.

I just want to win!

Ice-Queen · July 2012

I'll probably drop about $50 in the cash shop the first day for gems and items. I don't have alts, I like to get one character to max level and then farm for gold/items since I have 2 people to help keep up ingame

Arawulf · July 2012

Originally posted by Master10K
I can link to.

Aw, that's so good. I think he's spot on.

p_c_sousa · July 2012

Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by p_c_sousa

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Dont let them fool you, as soon as GW2 is released buy all the gems you can!

You should do this for at least the first 3-4 months, buy as many gems as you can. Then you will corner the market and be one rich player!!

Then you can sit back and buy everything you need, levels, items, guild stuff, guild levels and whatever else the game offers. The big bonus is that you can achieve max level in just a day or two.

But, now that the secret is out, be sure to buy those gems right away before someone else gets them.

lol. are you trying scam some guys? for support arenanet or just to buy that gems very cheap with gold?

Oh no, I believe I will be very rich if I buy all the gems first, then I will buy out every P2W item, and buff my guild in the first week. I'll probably spend my whole paycheck, but I dont care.

I just want to win!

please can i enter in your guild? xD

Atriokke · July 2012

Originally posted by Muntz
Originally posted by Atriokke

People are so entirely shortsighted considering P2W. The idea that power is only obtainable if and only if it is ONLY accessible on cash shop is right out laughable. Certainly there are varying degrees of P2W, butif your definition of P2W is being able to take advantage over others with money, then cash shops that sell gold for cash(or its equivalent) in MMOs inevitably fit this definition.

Example: A starts playing at the same time as B. They both play the game the same amount of hours. B has money to spare, A does not. B proceeds to spend cash for in game gold. B takes an advantage over A. Most games fit this description, but their degrees of how much advantage varies game to game.

The idea that since you can obtain it through gameplay THUS it is not P2W is ludicrous and incredibly naive. But of course, if your definition is something other than simply taking an advantage to other players through cash then we are at odds regarding the definition.

If there is power that can be bought it is something another player can NEVER pull even with. I can understand this definition of P2W because the player who paid always has a permant advantage. There are MMOs that offer this and I don't play them.

However, it does seem to me to be a different animal if the advantage is temporary. If all advantages can be obtained by any player who invests time, why is that P2W? Should it be P2W temporarly? P2WT. What is the profound impact to the game that makes the idea of someone disagreeing with you "ludicrous and incrediblly naive"?

This advantage has been happening since the first gold farming operations started. So, if you have played an MMO you have experienced it. So, really all MMOs that had any gold farming operation assocated with them were and are P2W by your definition.

"However, it does seem to me to be a different animal if the advantage is temporary. If all advantages can be obtained by any player who invests time, why is that P2W?"

Because you pay to win.

"Should it be P2W temporarly? P2WT"

I could use this!

"What is the profound impact to the game that makes the idea of someone disagreeing with you "ludicrous and incrediblly naive"? "

Fairness(equal playing field). A and B have the same possible routes to get to power lvl X. Money is a route, but that would be P2W. Unless theres a game where power lvl really dont gain you any advantage.

"This advantage has been happening since the first gold farming operations started. So, if you have played an MMO you have experienced it. So, really all MMOs that had any gold farming operation assocated with them were and are P2W by your definition."

Still unfair. It was unfair then, it doesnt stop being unfair when its legal. Of course i would've loved for the direction from the companies to be to fight them off as best they could, not adopt their 'evil' ways. But they are companies, so profit is always the carrot in front of the donkey. Games that try to remove the P2W component from scammers are not P2W but actually.. NOT P2W.

Atriokke · July 2012

Originally posted by Kyelthis
Here's a post quoted from Aslan132 on these forums and it pretty much should settle this whole silly arguement.

"Thats the big problem there. People need to adjust thier definitions of Pay2Win back to what it actually means. It has never meant xp potions or time-saving items. And it never will, not even with people on this site trying to force it to.

People have been buying and selling max level characters and uber-loot drops since the beginning. Name a sub game and i guarantee you can find a toon for sale on eBay. But even that is not Pay2Win. In the end, they skip all the content, but they are still only as powerful as someone who has actually played.

PAY2WIN is only something that takes you ABOVE what is normally reachable in a game. Artificial stat increases, new areas with better gear/loot, or temporary buffs/invulnerability. If its something that a nonpaying player couldnt do or get, then its pay2win.

PAY2WIN is NOT convenience items that save time, offer better chances to get something thats already obtainable without, skipping content, or appearance/cosmetic items. If you cant be better or reach higher than a nonpaying player, it is not Pay2Win.

So there it is, adjust your definition to that, and i think your gaming experiences will be alot better. There are still plenty of P2W games like anything ever done by PWE or Aeria, but theres also alot more out there that doesnt restrict your gameplay just because you dont pay them."

""Thats the big problem there. People need to adjust thier definitions of Pay2Win back to what it actually means. It has never meant xp potions or time-saving items. And it never will, not even with people on this site trying to force it to. "

Been using it incorrectly for a long time then lol. P2W has no official definition other than what the playerbase gives it. Pay2Win is a simple idea at face value, extrapolating it to mean MOREOVER that it is beyond what it means at face value is YOUR opinion or HIS i should say. Pay2Win has always meant to me and others that you pay to win. Simple no? But in the spirit of speaking the same terminology i can give that up for some other term.

" In the end, they skip all the content, but they are still only as powerful as someone who has actually played. "

Played how long... weeks, months, years? Disregarding the fact that during that time they were NOT as powerful as someone who actually played does not make a very compelling argument. NOT as powerful becayse they can be MORE powerful than someone that has 'played'. Quotes since the word 'played' here is applied loosely enough to mean whenever.

"PAY2WIN is only something that takes you ABOVE what is normally reachable in a game. Artificial stat increases, new areas with better gear/loot, or temporary buffs/invulnerability. If its something that a nonpaying player couldnt do or get, then its pay2win."

Normally reachable?

Two weeks of playing high end content in game X and acquiring items 1 or/and 2 or/and 3 or/and 4 is what id define as normally reachable. Paying takes you above what is normally reachable and thus lets you win since now you have items 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, 11 and 12 beyond what would be normally reachable. Looking at week 400 as the basis of what is normally reachable is what i call being shortsighted(or should i say farsighted).

"PAY2WIN is NOT convenience items that save time, offer better chances to get something thats already obtainable without, skipping content, or appearance/cosmetic items. If you cant be better or reach higher than a nonpaying player, it is not Pay2Win."

Our definitions here clash. Your paying to win means something other than paying to win. But i guess you could call a fly a mosquito if youd like.

"So there it is, adjust your definition to that, and i think your gaming experiences will be alot better. There are still plenty of P2W games like anything ever done by PWE or Aeria, but theres also alot more out there that doesnt restrict your gameplay just because you dont pay them.""

Maybe you should consider calling it P2U - pay to unlock. And i can stick with my actual P2W =D

Edited to remove bugs. ONE BUG SQUASHED.

Atriokke · July 2012

Originally posted by Hurvart
Originally posted by Muntz

Originally posted by Atriokke

People are so entirely shortsighted considering P2W. The idea that power is only obtainable if and only if it is ONLY accessible on cash shop is right out laughable. Certainly there are varying degrees of P2W, butif your definition of P2W is being able to take advantage over others with money, then cash shops that sell gold for cash(or its equivalent) in MMOs inevitably fit this definition.

Example: A starts playing at the same time as B. They both play the game the same amount of hours. B has money to spare, A does not. B proceeds to spend cash for in game gold. B takes an advantage over A. Most games fit this description, but their degrees of how much advantage varies game to game.

The idea that since you can obtain it through gameplay THUS it is not P2W is ludicrous and incredibly naive. But of course, if your definition is something other than simply taking an advantage to other players through cash then we are at odds regarding the definition.

If there is power that can be bought it is something another player can NEVER pull even with. I can understand this definition of P2W because the player who paid always has a permant advantage. There are MMOs that offer this and I don't play them.

However, it does seem to me to be a different animal if the advantage is temporary. If all advantages can be obtained by any player who invests time, why is that P2W? Should it be P2W temporarly? P2WT. What is the profound impact to the game that makes the idea of someone disagreeing with you "ludicrous and incrediblly naive"?

This advantage has been happening since the first gold farming operations started. So, if you have played an MMO you have experienced it. So, really all MMOs that had any gold farming operation assocated with them were and are P2W by your definition.

Gold farmers and people that buy from them are not legit. They are cheating and can and should be banned from the game.

It is a big difference if the company is selling advantages itself. Advantages that would be considered cheating in fair games.

Well put

Boneserino · July 2012

Clearly, this entire thread is P2W, as Atriokke and his like have have been massively buying, "Failure to Understand Logic" potions and have clearly raced ahead and now have the advantage!!

They win!!

Game over

Chrisbox · July 2012

Lets see what the cash shop offers-

Exp boosts, gold boosts, cosmetics, mobile banking, other cool stuff.

Levels mean nothing in sPVP, nothing in PVE, and maybe will give you a little edge in a 1v1 battle in WvW, but its not like that ever happens

So no, it isn't P2W.

freegames · July 2012

Check out Guild Wars the original and see if it is P2Win no it is not the only thing you are paying for are things with higher requirements and stats. Also most of the items that you buy will be no better than things you can find or craft on your own.

Leodious · July 2012

I am so tired of seeing this.

Atriokke · July 2012

Originally posted by Boneserino
Clearly, this entire thread is P2W, as Atriokke and his like have have been massively buying, "Failure to Understand Logic" potions and have clearly raced ahead and now have the advantage!!

They win!!

Game over

LOL. We just agree to disagree is all.

May the richest person win!!

Grahor · July 2012

Originally posted by Atriokke
LOL. We just agree to disagree is all.

We just agree that one of us is a complete idiot. I wonder which one of us it is.

seridan · July 2012

Originally posted by Grahor
Originally posted by Atriokke
LOL. We just agree to disagree is all.

We just agree that one of us is a complete idiot. I wonder which one of us it is.

This thread made me almost double my block list :P

Simple reading comprehension should've been enough for these guys to see reality, I guess they can't be helped anymore

sgel · July 2012

heh this attrioke dude must be under the spell of the TERA PR deprtment.

There is absolutely no other possiblity (without delving into personal insults) that his person has such faulty logic.

Ramanadjinn · July 2012

when seeing a thread go on for 30 pages over the definition of some term or whether or not a game is X or NOT X, it is good to evaluate the overall idea and ask one's self "am i applying a very broad and general term to a complex system?"

i.e.

this game is a sandbox

this game is for carebears

this game is pay to win

this game is -insert a slang term here-

my personal stance on the subject is, we all know what pay to win games are. those mostly asian grinders where people pump in hundreds to thousands of dollars to equip themselves far beyond what those who don't pay money will ever have. gw2 isn't one of those games right now and i would appreciate anyone who can divine future knowledge through powerful sorcery telling me if it ever will be one.

this is a very vague and subjective definition, but my point is.. if you try to go anywhere beyond a vague and subjective definition for a term you are using to describe somethign as complex as an MMO in one word of short phrase ... YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME

..take note the OP said "thanks for the info" and disappeared some 15-20 pages ago.

the details on what is in the GW2 cash shop is out there. someone showed them to the OP and that was that. anyone who wants to know the details on what you can pay to get in the game can find them if they just look.

RagnorMalak · July 2012

It's you.

brickleul · July 2012

Originally posted by Atriokke
Originally posted by Hurvart

Originally posted by Muntz

Originally posted by Atriokke

People are so entirely shortsighted considering P2W. The idea that power is only obtainable if and only if it is ONLY accessible on cash shop is right out laughable. Certainly there are varying degrees of P2W, butif your definition of P2W is being able to take advantage over others with money, then cash shops that sell gold for cash(or its equivalent) in MMOs inevitably fit this definition.

Example: A starts playing at the same time as B. They both play the game the same amount of hours. B has money to spare, A does not. B proceeds to spend cash for in game gold. B takes an advantage over A. Most games fit this description, but their degrees of how much advantage varies game to game.

The idea that since you can obtain it through gameplay THUS it is not P2W is ludicrous and incredibly naive. But of course, if your definition is something other than simply taking an advantage to other players through cash then we are at odds regarding the definition.

If there is power that can be bought it is something another player can NEVER pull even with. I can understand this definition of P2W because the player who paid always has a permant advantage. There are MMOs that offer this and I don't play them.

However, it does seem to me to be a different animal if the advantage is temporary. If all advantages can be obtained by any player who invests time, why is that P2W? Should it be P2W temporarly? P2WT. What is the profound impact to the game that makes the idea of someone disagreeing with you "ludicrous and incrediblly naive"?

This advantage has been happening since the first gold farming operations started. So, if you have played an MMO you have experienced it. So, really all MMOs that had any gold farming operation assocated with them were and are P2W by your definition.

Gold farmers and people that buy from them are not legit. They are cheating and can and should be banned from the game.

It is a big difference if the company is selling advantages itself. Advantages that would be considered cheating in fair games.

Well put

Every player in every game at a point is a gold farmer, some people will sell the gold for real money this is not legit , but what is the difference from buying gold from other players or buying gems( gems who use to sell them for gold) from Anet, how can someone prove that Player X sold gold to player Y , at least for europe EULA can be ignored because of EU laws , ANet can't ban you just because they suspect you bought gold, and real proff is hard to get , how can they know if I gave that gold for free or I sold it , for example I'm a very good player in almost every game I played , I consider myself a hardcore player , I have lots of friends in Eve, LOTRO and D3 and if is possible I will help them with gold in GW 2 . Who can make a difference from buying gold from Anet , buying gold from gold farmers or reciving gold from friends .

Arthasm · July 2012

I'm going to buy 100k gems 25.08. (yes, 3 days headstart) then pwn your little poor ass w/o CC, be the world 1st 80 level and kick some butts in WvWvW with my uber overpower guild where everybody also will buy insanely amount of gems. Don't try to login - you're dead before release. P2W FTW!!!

Kyus_HoB · July 2012

Originally posted by altas
I'm going to buy 100k gems 25.08. (yes, 3 days headstart) then pwn your little poor ass w/o CC, be the world 1st 80 level and kick some butts in WvWvW with my uber overpower guild where everybody also will buy insanely amount of gems. Don't try to login - you're dead before release. P2W FTW!!!

Not so fast ATLAS! I will stop you and your evil P2W ways! I wil log in on the 25th and level at a slower rate than you, but through intelligent in game mechanics I will magically be booster to your level! My guild of non gem buyers will use the other ways of obtaining gold and influence to purchase guild buffs and blueprints thus matching you and your capatalist MMO ways..... you have met your match for I am, non moaning in game mechanics man! (try fitting that on a cape)

Justsomenoob · July 2012

"I'm tired of getting pwned by noobs with daddy's credit card just because they can afford to get the purple pants reskin while I'm stuck with the crappy in game blue ones."

MercAngel · July 2012

GW2 is not P2W i did a test last BEW to see how much the XP boost did for you so with char 1 i did all the heart and skill quest and any DE's i came by makeing a note of witch ones i did up to the Assault on Svanir's Dome at the end my char was lvl 18 about 3/4 of the way to lvl 19.

Char 2 useing XP boost i did the same things as char 1 makeing sure to only do the DE'S the char 1 did all the way to Assault on Svanir's Dome that char was lvl 19 and the end of the event.

so a player getting 1/4 more exp in more or less the same amout of play time and may get to max lvl 1-2 days before i do = P2W NOT!!!!!

P2W = you can not beat highend content with out useing items from cash shop.

it works something like this. say you can not do dungeons with out upgraded rare armor and weapons now rare armor and weapons are hard to find and it may take time and gold to get them all as some players may sell them for a high price you can also get all the rest of the stuff you need to upgrade with but there is one thing your upgrade may fail and destory the item you are trying to upgrade but there is this cash shop item that keeps the item from getting destoryed if the upgrade fails note this item does not drop in game and has a 1 time use so the only way to get this item is from cash shop or other players that got it from the cash shop for a ton of gold.

as there are no items in GW2 cash shop that are neede to play them game, beat highend content , or do dungeons it is not P2W

Creslin321 · July 2012

If you want GW2 to be P2W, then you will just craft your definition of P2W so that it is.

If you want GW2 to not be P2W, then you can just craft your definition of P2W so that it isn't.

At the end of the day though, the fact of the matter is that you can definitely buy an advantage in GW2 with real money, but I don't really think it's going to have a huge impact on gameplay.

I mean, you can literally buy any item in the auction house and/or supply yourself with unlimited blueprints in WvW with real money. This is clearly an advantage.

But in the grand scheme of things, it's not really any advantage that someone who spent a long time playing the game would not have. So I don't think it's going to cause any major issues game-wise.

Despite this realization though, I still am strongly against the cash shop in GW2. Basically, I just see RMT that allows you to buy virtual goods that would have otherwised been earned by playing the game as a form of legitimized "cheating." I am ideologically opposed to it. I feel like everything you gain in a game based on achievement should be earned and not bought. Because if you buy something and put in no work to get it, then you have achieved nothing.

I feel like the whole RMT for virtual goods model takes advantage of players who have yet to realize that they enjoy games because of the journey and not because of the destination. Many of us learned this lesson when we used cheat codes to bull through a game and basically ruined the entire game for ourselves. I guess now you just have to pay money to learn that lesson. Call me cynical if you want, but this is how I see it.

Dawnstar · July 2012

Originally posted by bleyzwun
Didn't see anything in there that was P2W. I think you're assuming it is without having looked at the gem store.

I think a lot of people assume a cash shop is P2W just on general principle, whether or not it gives players an advantage over other players in PvP.

bcbully · July 2012

Man this thread has really blew up.

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