I played probably every big MMO there is. I played computer games since C64 days, I made maps on chequered paper and journal entries on paper, and I played computer games in days when they were *really* difficult.
Difference is: then was then and now is now. I changed. My patience is now that I am in my advanced age of 41, less. I still want to think, puzzle, combine and try out. But I do *not* want certain levels of frustration, and as one compatriot here pointed out: as I see it Funcom is here in real danger to lose a majority of it's players soon. I know and totally respect that some people like exactly that difficulty. That's ok. When I was 20, I liked that too. But now I have an adult life, and I game less for proving myself, I play to relax. And while I was totally ready to go back to a previous zone and repeat it COMPLETELY one time to alter my skill-set, and I was trying out 20-30 combinations, that is as far as my patience goes. A game must welcome me. It must adapt to my playstyle and my wishes, I do not want a sort of "education" game which forces me to look after optimal built guides. I want a game where I with my level of intelligence can within a reasonable time of study and experiment can come up with a built that allows me a fluid experience.
Atm TSW does NOT allow that. And imvpo I think that is a flaw. I did reasonable amounts of study, experimentation and trying out stuff into it, and at a certain point a game just has to work. A game needs a certain natural flow. And TSW just doesn't have this flow. There were just many places in Blue Mountain area where the mobs respawned faster than I could kill then. Period. And trust me, when you try 30 builts with your QL5-6 gear, that is as good as it gets.
Let's just not be in denial. This game has a big issue. Period.
The difference between you and me (other than your youth, lol. Yes, I am older than you and age has zero to do with this) is that I started out on the Atari, although I did have a C-64 as well.
...and that I don't expect MMOs to be what fills my "quicky" game playing time. I have NHL 2012 and a whole pile of single player games for that. Complex systems are still fun for me and that's what I want in an MMO. Maybe when I'm 80 I'll want simple all the time, but I don't right now.
I've played just about every "big" MMO for 12+ years... EQ, AC, DAoC, WOW, SWG, LOTRO, Rift, SWTOR, etc. and I have seen a steady decline in innovation and uniqueness in the genre. Everything is dumbed-down with some artificial difficulty thrown in in the guise of required gear-grinds. TSW feels like a very refreshing change of pace to me and I'm loving it--especially the complexity.
Is it for everyone? I seriously doubt it. I can't stand Eve but tons of people like it. Different strokes and all that...Idon't know why it's so tough for people here to just say "I don't like this" or "It's not for me." Instead I see a lot of hot air and rationalizations blaming gaming systems and design for what is essentially a personal preference.
I mean, look at your post. Your 2nd paragraph tells us that you don't like complex games any more... fair enough. But then you have to end your post with "Let's just not be in denial. This game has a big issue. Period."
You don't like it therefore it's bad. Is that about it?
Verrry well said! That sums up my thoughts exactly. +1
You acknowledge that there are builds that are much more capable than others, then you say that you shouldn't just try to copy established, powerful builds, but rather find your own, only to then say that if you are having problems, your build is wrong!
Sadly, the proper thing to do is to follow a guide that highlights a currently acknowledged high powered build, so that you can tackle content successfully, then spend any excess AP on experimental builds, many of which will seem to have great synergy on paper, but will still greatly underperform the current FotM builds.
Skill balance is horrible in the game. Unfortunately, the problem isn't a few OP builds, since content seems to be balanced for those OP builds. The problem is the other 99.5% of builds, obtainable by the time you reach Blue Mountains on a single play through, that are just not able to handle the content, no matter how synergistic they may be.
A hard lesson for me has been the discovery that many synergistic builds are based on skills who's base numbers are so low that even with full synergy you don't get a pay off for the synergy in line with the effort or on par with the few high powered builds.
It's great for hard core theorycrafters who like being able to find one build in 10,000 that blows the rest away, but it's bad for the rest of us who don't like to play games with cookie cutter, FotM builds.
It takes a long time to unlock the faction decks, I hope they are all viable once you get there, because if even the Funcom built decks have a high fail ratio, then there will be no greater indication of how FUBAR skill balance is in TSW.
There are plenty of viable builds. You make it sound like there is only a few.
I have had two different builds already. I did a blade build early and switched to AR later. Both with Blood. In that time I have tried multiple different setups with AR. Adjusting as I go.
Elikal, you're not the first one to be frustrated by blue mountains, that's fir sure. If it is any consolation, Egypt opens up again. You may wan't to go to the first zone in Egypt for now, at some places it is easier than Blue Mountains.
If you have any patience for reading still, there is also this great guide (and great site):
I never made any FotM built. But I am seriously considering. I am tired of reading and studying. I read those skills and combined them as best as I could, but it led to nothing. So I really would remake a built that is proven to be OP.
You're spread out. Pick two and stick with them till you get deeper. You might want to check out the mercenary deck.
If you want easy mode make sure to level your minor and head talismans. They effectively control your "level". One is magic protection and the other is physical protection. On top of that they control what gear you can wear.
Are you taking adavantage of states? Many builds are based around this. For instance you can make a build in AR around the hindered state. There are passives that cause extra damage whenever you hinder an opponent. Same thing with penetration.
I get a Barrier and a heal whenever I penetrate a target.
compared to all these other MMOs I listed games combat looks fine to me
Nice understated post. A bit of video evidence is rather more compelling to me than endless subjective inuendo.
Btw, I like the shotgun as well.
thank you.. i'm still waiting for someone to show this great MMO combat I keep hearing about.. even TERA for me was pretty lackluster and actually much prefer TSW over TERA even for combat. only MMO combat I can say i enjoy more is GW2 but that's just because the overall feel and style just works so well for me.. Either way I really don't see how people can complain so much about combat in this game when you sit and look at what other MMOs combat really has to offer.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
thank you.. i'm still waiting for someone to show this great MMO combat I keep hearing about.. even TERA for me was pretty lackluster and actually much prefer TSW over TERA even for combat. only MMO combat I can say i enjoy more is GW2 but that's just because the overall feel and style just works so well for me.. Either way I really don't see how people can complain so much about combat in this game when you sit and look at what other MMOs combat really has to offer.
I was quick to judge TSW's combat as well.
I started out Blades and it was very simple. Hit 1, hit 2, repeat.
Swtiched to AR and now I use all my abilities. I find it much more engaging. Even the combat is starting to grow on me. However I could see how someone who starts as melee might find the combat uninspiring given my own experience.
From my experience with beta, I LOVED the atmosphere, the art style, the setting, the stories, the voice acting, the skill customization and so much more... but got very bored with what I felt to be a very boring/unpolished and unsatisfying combat experience.
I tried several combat types/weapons, but none of them made me feel like I was in some sort of awesome fight or convincingly portrayed combat to me. It just felt very mechanically clunky. Perhaps it was all in the animations or lack there of. Possibly in the character movement. I simply wasn't sold on the combat and knew I wouldn't have fun with it for long at all.
Having said that, if the combat were more 'fun' for me, Funcom would have my money without a doubt.
Even despite this, I can't help but consider getting the game due to its many qualities... and because I want to show Funcom I'm proud of many of their design decisions and forging a much more unique experience than is the standard, overall.
Still though I feel Guild Wars 2 deserves my money moreso... but I still wish Funcom great success with this title and am happy the game is being enjoyed by so many, receiving praise from reviews.
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
The thing that gets me is AoC had the best melee combat system and animations of any mmo to date and even was better than a huge chunk of single player rpg's systems/animations.
So one would be led to think that Funcom was just lazy/pushed the game out too early in that regard. There really isnt any other explanation for it.
I find it funny that the OP is calling The Secret World's combat boring and then saying he's going back to LOTR in the same breath. LOTRO has the dullest combat I've ever experienced in my life. To each his own I suppose.
Honestly, if combat alone could carry a game I'd still be playing Tera.
That is funny (as you said). Because I found LotRO combat far superior to TSW. HAHAHA! Really funny indeed!!!
In LotRO, every class has a different way to manage resources, instead of 1. In LotRO they have multiple classes with different abilities, not just 1 person with every ability. In LotRO you can choose from far over 7 skills at a time... not just 7.
I understand where the Original Poster is coming from. The combat in TSW feels flat at best. And to quote you, "to each their own I suppose."
Oh come off it I was in LOTRO beta and I do love Turbine and there games but LOTRO combat and combat animations are worse than TSW.Clunky slow I could go on and on.I find Rifts combat a close second behind LOTRO in being boring and tedius,
The thing that gets me is AoC had the best melee combat system and animations of any mmo to date and even was better than a huge chunk of single player rpg's systems/animations.
So one would be led to think that Funcom was just lazy/pushed the game out too early in that regard. There really isnt any other explanation for it.
think you guys overstate AoC combat.. Fatalities were nice but overall the look was okay but didn't play any better IMHO than TSW. I also prefer the faster paced combat of TSW.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
thank you.. i'm still waiting for someone to show this great MMO combat I keep hearing about.. even TERA for me was pretty lackluster and actually much prefer TSW over TERA even for combat. only MMO combat I can say i enjoy more is GW2 but that's just because the overall feel and style just works so well for me.. Either way I really don't see how people can complain so much about combat in this game when you sit and look at what other MMOs combat really has to offer.
Agreed. I'll admit I havent played WoW or Lotro at all so I can't comment on their combat directly. And while I remember enjoying the directional attack system and fatalities in AoC, it was a while since I played and I only ended up playing for a few weeks total so I don't really remember it all too well.
However I did play Aion, Rift, and SWTOR, and Tera long enough and recently enough to say without a doubt that those games had nothing spectacular in the way of combat, and I certainly wouldnt say they were "better" than TSWs.
I think the problem is that people try to separately rate skill systems, mechanics, animations, combat actions, mob difficulty, and engagement/awareness when they are all tied in to each other and affect each other all of the time.
Also when I rate a games combat I am talking about the combat that you experience the most which is usually against trash/simple mobs and not dungeon bosses...etc.
For example I would definitely rate the combat in SWTOR as subpar compared to TSW for many reasons buf specifically:
-mobs were not difficult: they were weak, stupid, and static. on many occasions even though in the cutscene the mobs looked like they were ready to rip me to shreds, after it ended they stood there stiff as a board or looking around like they didnt even know i was there....
-too many skills, too many useless skills: I noticed many skills that were almost exact copies of each other but with a slight variation in dmg/cooldown/cost. They had no specific use/utility, just more skills for the sake of skills. There were literally skills that were objectively weeker and useless for combat that I never used or didnt want to buy.
The thing that gets me is AoC had the best melee combat system and animations of any mmo to date and even was better than a huge chunk of single player rpg's systems/animations.
So one would be led to think that Funcom was just lazy/pushed the game out too early in that regard. There really isnt any other explanation for it.
think you guys overstate AoC combat.. Fatalities were nice but overall the look was okay but didn't play any better IMHO than TSW. I also prefer the faster paced combat of TSW.
The problem with the TSW video that you linked isn't the way that it looked really. It was that the person was circle strafing while while spamming 1 up to max combo points and then doing a finisher 90% of the time.
It's the way combat feels. It tends to feel overly simplistic to me. Outcomes are overly dependant on long cooldowns. Strafing while building up combo points, for every single weapon in the game, 90% of the time, just isn't interesting enough to hold my attention.
This is what happens when the rest of the devs dumb down their combat system and when someone actually makes something different they freak out. I think a alot of people are just too lazy and spoiled because most mmos have been pretty easy. Now when actual effort is needed it is labeled as bad combat. What a joke...
I think the combat is just bad. I've never labeled a game as having bad combat because of it being challenging.
The thing that gets me is AoC had the best melee combat system and animations of any mmo to date and even was better than a huge chunk of single player rpg's systems/animations.
So one would be led to think that Funcom was just lazy/pushed the game out too early in that regard. There really isnt any other explanation for it.
think you guys overstate AoC combat.. Fatalities were nice but overall the look was okay but didn't play any better IMHO than TSW. I also prefer the faster paced combat of TSW.
The problem with the TSW video that you linked isn't the way that it looked really. It was that the person was circle strafing while while spamming 1 up to max combo points and then doing a finisher 90% of the time.
It's the way combat feels. It tends to feel overly simplistic to me. Outcomes are overly dependant on long cooldowns. Strafing while building up combo points, for every single weapon in the game, 90% of the time, just isn't interesting enough to hold my attention.
found that to be an odd statement consider the longest CD skill I currently have is 45 seconds... thats one thing I hate about other games is long CD skills.. swtor had freaking 30 min CD skills.. even 5 min for me is to long of a CD for a skill.
I'm also curious as people have mentioned Rift and even wow have better combat. I just don't find standing and trading blows in PVE all that exciting combat in my book.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I have wanted to love this game, but I can't. It's just tedious. The combat is a horrible button mash fest. Everything else is stellar. The atmosphere is perfect, the quests are fine. But the combat is atrocious. AOC was sooo much better in this area. I've gone back to lotro and won't be renewing my sub. I appreciate TSW and what it's trying to be, but I don't have the time or patience for it. Instead of getting better, things just get worse as you progress. Crafting is a pain in the ass instead of something to look forward to. It seems like tedium and repetition are the games replacement for leveling up due to lack of content. Otherwise, a small area takes forever due to really slow advancement and the intention of keeping players in one area as long as possible. On top of that, there is very little reference to secret societies and all that. TOTALLY dissappointed...
My Pali deck combat look AWESOME. The transition from DW Pistols to Sword is very nice to watch. You must be doing your build wrong. The crafting is very straight forward. There is zero grind in it and very simple to learn. It all comes down to taste. I tired Lotor and could not stop LOL at how my guy looked when he did his combat animations. Grant you I was playing Aion pre rift nerf when my friend asked me to try lotro with him. Armor was horrid graphics sub par only thing that looked OK was the world graphics IMO that is. Went back to Aion after 2 weeks. So I have been there my self. Not saying Aion was a good game either but pre rift nerf it was a TON of fun to go gank on my Templar.
The thing that gets me is AoC had the best melee combat system and animations of any mmo to date and even was better than a huge chunk of single player rpg's systems/animations.
So one would be led to think that Funcom was just lazy/pushed the game out too early in that regard. There really isnt any other explanation for it.
think you guys overstate AoC combat.. Fatalities were nice but overall the look was okay but didn't play any better IMHO than TSW. I also prefer the faster paced combat of TSW.
The problem with the TSW video that you linked isn't the way that it looked really. It was that the person was circle strafing while while spamming 1 up to max combo points and then doing a finisher 90% of the time.
It's the way combat feels. It tends to feel overly simplistic to me. Outcomes are overly dependant on long cooldowns. Strafing while building up combo points, for every single weapon in the game, 90% of the time, just isn't interesting enough to hold my attention.
found that to be an odd statement consider the longest CD skill I currently have is 45 seconds... thats one thing I hate about other games is long CD skills.. swtor had freaking 30 min CD skills.. even 5 min for me is to long of a CD for a skill.
Yeah, I don't like overly long cooldowns like that either.
I should clarify though. Because you only have 7 skills to choose from at a time, those cooldowns tend to carry a lot more weight. When 1/7 of your abilities is on cooldown, it matters. In other, more typical hotbar games, when 1/30 skills is on cooldown it tends to carry less weight.
The thing that gets me is AoC had the best melee combat system and animations of any mmo to date and even was better than a huge chunk of single player rpg's systems/animations.
So one would be led to think that Funcom was just lazy/pushed the game out too early in that regard. There really isnt any other explanation for it.
think you guys overstate AoC combat.. Fatalities were nice but overall the look was okay but didn't play any better IMHO than TSW. I also prefer the faster paced combat of TSW.
lvl 1 combat videos of keyboard turners are nothing to compare to lol.
While this is old and has all effects/blood turned off for performance as everyone did back before i7's in AoC, is a better represntation. No one will get the point of the video btw, however back in the day it was hillarious as I was unbeatable at one point in that game.
The thing that gets me is AoC had the best melee combat system and animations of any mmo to date and even was better than a huge chunk of single player rpg's systems/animations.
So one would be led to think that Funcom was just lazy/pushed the game out too early in that regard. There really isnt any other explanation for it.
think you guys overstate AoC combat.. Fatalities were nice but overall the look was okay but didn't play any better IMHO than TSW. I also prefer the faster paced combat of TSW.
The problem with the TSW video that you linked isn't the way that it looked really. It was that the person was circle strafing while while spamming 1 up to max combo points and then doing a finisher 90% of the time.
It's the way combat feels. It tends to feel overly simplistic to me. Outcomes are overly dependant on long cooldowns. Strafing while building up combo points, for every single weapon in the game, 90% of the time, just isn't interesting enough to hold my attention.
found that to be an odd statement consider the longest CD skill I currently have is 45 seconds... thats one thing I hate about other games is long CD skills.. swtor had freaking 30 min CD skills.. even 5 min for me is to long of a CD for a skill.
Yeah, I don't like overly long cooldowns like that either.
I should clarify though. Because you only have 7 skills to choose from at a time, those cooldowns tend to carry a lot more weight. When 1/7 of your abilities is on cooldown, it matters. In other, more typical hotbar games, when 1/30 skills is on cooldown it tends to carry less weight.
I see. I sort of agree but they compensate this but not having very long cooldowns at all.. at 45 seconds I can use the skill pretty much every single fight. At the most every other fight. I find enough flexability and options on changing my build I never need to be stuck with the same build or rotation very long.. I have found if I start getting bored using a certain combination of skills I just respec into something new.. people I guess feel even if you respec it plays out the same since its basic builders and finishers. To me the big fun is trying to find that combo that works so well together. How it actually plays out and feels is good enough for me. I can see how some may find it simplistic but its not just the actual fighting, you have to take in to account passives and how you have your deck set up overall in the first place.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
The thing that gets me is AoC had the best melee combat system and animations of any mmo to date and even was better than a huge chunk of single player rpg's systems/animations.
So one would be led to think that Funcom was just lazy/pushed the game out too early in that regard. There really isnt any other explanation for it.
think you guys overstate AoC combat.. Fatalities were nice but overall the look was okay but didn't play any better IMHO than TSW. I also prefer the faster paced combat of TSW.
lvl 1 combat videos of keyboard turners are nothing to compare to lol.
While this is old and has all effects/blood turned off for performance as everyone did back before i7's in AoC, is a better represntation. No one will get the point of the video btw, however back in the day it was hillarious as I was unbeatable at one point in that game.
www.viddler.com/v/8ad26756
I haven't played AoC in awhile but just watching that I can say I like how TSW combat looks and plays out a lot more.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I have wanted to love this game, but I can't. It's just tedious. The combat is a horrible button mash fest. Everything else is stellar. The atmosphere is perfect, the quests are fine. But the combat is atrocious. AOC was sooo much better in this area. I've gone back to lotro and won't be renewing my sub. I appreciate TSW and what it's trying to be, but I don't have the time or patience for it. Instead of getting better, things just get worse as you progress. Crafting is a pain in the ass instead of something to look forward to. It seems like tedium and repetition are the games replacement for leveling up due to lack of content. Otherwise, a small area takes forever due to really slow advancement and the intention of keeping players in one area as long as possible. On top of that, there is very little reference to secret societies and all that. TOTALLY dissappointed...
I respect your opinion. I must totally disagree . The combat gets better, the progression is faster in many ways because your not focused on some end game magical number your more concerned with progress of char as a whole, and the story. This game has chalk loads of occult myth, and story as well as an escalated feel with the war so far. The action has gotten better as I move on. Try again maybe your build, or skills are not set up to be cohesive. Yes I am out of kingsmouth , I have around 80 ap and if I han't changed specs earlier as well as boosting all Talismans to ql3 I would be beyong the Q7 I am. ( I would have to double check after work for exact amount of ability points)
I played probably every big MMO there is. I played computer games since C64 days, I made maps on chequered paper and journal entries on paper, and I played computer games in days when they were *really* difficult.
Difference is: then was then and now is now. I changed. My patience is now that I am in my advanced age of 41, less. I still want to think, puzzle, combine and try out. But I do *not* want certain levels of frustration, and as one compatriot here pointed out: as I see it Funcom is here in real danger to lose a majority of it's players soon. I know and totally respect that some people like exactly that difficulty. That's ok. When I was 20, I liked that too. But now I have an adult life, and I game less for proving myself, I play to relax. And while I was totally ready to go back to a previous zone and repeat it COMPLETELY one time to alter my skill-set, and I was trying out 20-30 combinations, that is as far as my patience goes. A game must welcome me. It must adapt to my playstyle and my wishes, I do not want a sort of "education" game which forces me to look after optimal built guides. I want a game where I with my level of intelligence can within a reasonable time of study and experiment can come up with a built that allows me a fluid experience.
Atm TSW does NOT allow that. And imvpo I think that is a flaw. I did reasonable amounts of study, experimentation and trying out stuff into it, and at a certain point a game just has to work. A game needs a certain natural flow. And TSW just doesn't have this flow. There were just many places in Blue Mountain area where the mobs respawned faster than I could kill then. Period. And trust me, when you try 30 builts with your QL5-6 gear, that is as good as it gets.
Let's just not be in denial. This game has a big issue. Period.
So basically you are mad because TSW is not holding your hand? Sometimes I wonder if so called "experienced MMO players" even know what they actually want - they complain that games have become too easy but if some MMO tries to break out from WoW formula and brings back a bit challenge they start to complain that they expect their Farmville.
But you here expect TSW to be different from what it is because YOU have changed and you want it. Sorry but this sounds like a spoiled kid of a MEMEME generation on ego trip. Being a complete casual myself these days I enjoy TSW and I enjoy it being a little bit harder than an average MMO.
Everyone who plays this game knows the combat is horrible, or should have at least the common sense to know it's far from perfect.
But, Some of You People on this site seem to come here just to complain like bed wetting, infants. Funcom have already stated themselfs countless times on their forums that the combat system is not up to par, and they are looking to improve the character creation and combat system in the next comming months. They already know this so it isn't an issue. Whining about it won't get you anywhere, or make the game any better then it is. If you are dissapointed by the game then why did you sit and play through all the beta's? what kind of a slow-minded assinine-moron gamer realizes the game isn't what he expected after playing the game after months of beta testing? I'm sorry but I just don't understand that logic.
I played probably every big MMO there is. I played computer games since C64 days, I made maps on chequered paper and journal entries on paper, and I played computer games in days when they were *really* difficult.
Difference is: then was then and now is now. I changed. My patience is now that I am in my advanced age of 41, less. I still want to think, puzzle, combine and try out. But I do *not* want certain levels of frustration, and as one compatriot here pointed out: as I see it Funcom is here in real danger to lose a majority of it's players soon. I know and totally respect that some people like exactly that difficulty. That's ok. When I was 20, I liked that too. But now I have an adult life, and I game less for proving myself, I play to relax. And while I was totally ready to go back to a previous zone and repeat it COMPLETELY one time to alter my skill-set, and I was trying out 20-30 combinations, that is as far as my patience goes. A game must welcome me. It must adapt to my playstyle and my wishes, I do not want a sort of "education" game which forces me to look after optimal built guides. I want a game where I with my level of intelligence can within a reasonable time of study and experiment can come up with a built that allows me a fluid experience.
Atm TSW does NOT allow that. And imvpo I think that is a flaw. I did reasonable amounts of study, experimentation and trying out stuff into it, and at a certain point a game just has to work. A game needs a certain natural flow. And TSW just doesn't have this flow. There were just many places in Blue Mountain area where the mobs respawned faster than I could kill then. Period. And trust me, when you try 30 builts with your QL5-6 gear, that is as good as it gets.
Let's just not be in denial. This game has a big issue. Period.
So basically you are mad because TSW is not holding your hand? Sometimes I wonder if so called "experienced MMO players" even know what they actually want - they complain that games have become too easy but if some MMO tries to break out from WoW formula and brings back a bit challenge they start to complain that they expect their Farmville.
But you here expect TSW to be different from what it is because YOU have changed and you want it. Sorry but this sounds like a spoiled kid of a MEMEME generation on ego trip. Being a complete casual myself these days I enjoy TSW and I enjoy it being a little bit harder than an average MMO.
There are many shades of grey between easy - difficult - challanging - tiresome and overly complicated.
Hey, of course it is MY wishes. I pay, I say my wish. What's wrong with that?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
Verrry well said! That sums up my thoughts exactly. +1
There are plenty of viable builds. You make it sound like there is only a few.
I have had two different builds already. I did a blade build early and switched to AR later. Both with Blood. In that time I have tried multiple different setups with AR. Adjusting as I go.
Maybe making builds just isn't your thing.
Nice understated post. A bit of video evidence is rather more compelling to me than endless subjective inuendo.
Btw, I like the shotgun as well.
You're spread out. Pick two and stick with them till you get deeper. You might want to check out the mercenary deck.
If you want easy mode make sure to level your minor and head talismans. They effectively control your "level". One is magic protection and the other is physical protection. On top of that they control what gear you can wear.
Are you taking adavantage of states? Many builds are based around this. For instance you can make a build in AR around the hindered state. There are passives that cause extra damage whenever you hinder an opponent. Same thing with penetration.
I get a Barrier and a heal whenever I penetrate a target.
thank you.. i'm still waiting for someone to show this great MMO combat I keep hearing about.. even TERA for me was pretty lackluster and actually much prefer TSW over TERA even for combat. only MMO combat I can say i enjoy more is GW2 but that's just because the overall feel and style just works so well for me.. Either way I really don't see how people can complain so much about combat in this game when you sit and look at what other MMOs combat really has to offer.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I was quick to judge TSW's combat as well.
I started out Blades and it was very simple. Hit 1, hit 2, repeat.
Swtiched to AR and now I use all my abilities. I find it much more engaging. Even the combat is starting to grow on me. However I could see how someone who starts as melee might find the combat uninspiring given my own experience.
From my experience with beta, I LOVED the atmosphere, the art style, the setting, the stories, the voice acting, the skill customization and so much more... but got very bored with what I felt to be a very boring/unpolished and unsatisfying combat experience.
I tried several combat types/weapons, but none of them made me feel like I was in some sort of awesome fight or convincingly portrayed combat to me. It just felt very mechanically clunky. Perhaps it was all in the animations or lack there of. Possibly in the character movement. I simply wasn't sold on the combat and knew I wouldn't have fun with it for long at all.
Having said that, if the combat were more 'fun' for me, Funcom would have my money without a doubt.
Even despite this, I can't help but consider getting the game due to its many qualities... and because I want to show Funcom I'm proud of many of their design decisions and forging a much more unique experience than is the standard, overall.
Still though I feel Guild Wars 2 deserves my money moreso... but I still wish Funcom great success with this title and am happy the game is being enjoyed by so many, receiving praise from reviews.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
The thing that gets me is AoC had the best melee combat system and animations of any mmo to date and even was better than a huge chunk of single player rpg's systems/animations.
So one would be led to think that Funcom was just lazy/pushed the game out too early in that regard. There really isnt any other explanation for it.
Oh come off it I was in LOTRO beta and I do love Turbine and there games but LOTRO combat and combat animations are worse than TSW.Clunky slow I could go on and on.I find Rifts combat a close second behind LOTRO in being boring and tedius,
think you guys overstate AoC combat.. Fatalities were nice but overall the look was okay but didn't play any better IMHO than TSW. I also prefer the faster paced combat of TSW.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t03wUZsgaoY compare that to videos I posted above.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Agreed. I'll admit I havent played WoW or Lotro at all so I can't comment on their combat directly. And while I remember enjoying the directional attack system and fatalities in AoC, it was a while since I played and I only ended up playing for a few weeks total so I don't really remember it all too well.
However I did play Aion, Rift, and SWTOR, and Tera long enough and recently enough to say without a doubt that those games had nothing spectacular in the way of combat, and I certainly wouldnt say they were "better" than TSWs.
I think the problem is that people try to separately rate skill systems, mechanics, animations, combat actions, mob difficulty, and engagement/awareness when they are all tied in to each other and affect each other all of the time.
Also when I rate a games combat I am talking about the combat that you experience the most which is usually against trash/simple mobs and not dungeon bosses...etc.
For example I would definitely rate the combat in SWTOR as subpar compared to TSW for many reasons buf specifically:
-mobs were not difficult: they were weak, stupid, and static. on many occasions even though in the cutscene the mobs looked like they were ready to rip me to shreds, after it ended they stood there stiff as a board or looking around like they didnt even know i was there....
-too many skills, too many useless skills: I noticed many skills that were almost exact copies of each other but with a slight variation in dmg/cooldown/cost. They had no specific use/utility, just more skills for the sake of skills. There were literally skills that were objectively weeker and useless for combat that I never used or didnt want to buy.
-no real LoS, collision detection
MMOs Played: FFXI,Age of Conan, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, GW2
Playing:None
Waiting For: Wildstar, The Repopulation, Archeage, TESO, Warhammer 40K:EC, EQN
The problem with the TSW video that you linked isn't the way that it looked really. It was that the person was circle strafing while while spamming 1 up to max combo points and then doing a finisher 90% of the time.
It's the way combat feels. It tends to feel overly simplistic to me. Outcomes are overly dependant on long cooldowns. Strafing while building up combo points, for every single weapon in the game, 90% of the time, just isn't interesting enough to hold my attention.
The dispute with the op from the tsw fans is basically amounting to "nuh-uh" in this thread.
I think the combat is just bad. I've never labeled a game as having bad combat because of it being challenging.
found that to be an odd statement consider the longest CD skill I currently have is 45 seconds... thats one thing I hate about other games is long CD skills.. swtor had freaking 30 min CD skills.. even 5 min for me is to long of a CD for a skill.
I'm also curious as people have mentioned Rift and even wow have better combat. I just don't find standing and trading blows in PVE all that exciting combat in my book.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
My Pali deck combat look AWESOME. The transition from DW Pistols to Sword is very nice to watch. You must be doing your build wrong. The crafting is very straight forward. There is zero grind in it and very simple to learn. It all comes down to taste. I tired Lotor and could not stop LOL at how my guy looked when he did his combat animations. Grant you I was playing Aion pre rift nerf when my friend asked me to try lotro with him. Armor was horrid graphics sub par only thing that looked OK was the world graphics IMO that is. Went back to Aion after 2 weeks. So I have been there my self. Not saying Aion was a good game either but pre rift nerf it was a TON of fun to go gank on my Templar.
Yeah, I don't like overly long cooldowns like that either.
I should clarify though. Because you only have 7 skills to choose from at a time, those cooldowns tend to carry a lot more weight. When 1/7 of your abilities is on cooldown, it matters. In other, more typical hotbar games, when 1/30 skills is on cooldown it tends to carry less weight.
lvl 1 combat videos of keyboard turners are nothing to compare to lol.
While this is old and has all effects/blood turned off for performance as everyone did back before i7's in AoC, is a better represntation. No one will get the point of the video btw, however back in the day it was hillarious as I was unbeatable at one point in that game.
www.viddler.com/v/8ad26756
I see. I sort of agree but they compensate this but not having very long cooldowns at all.. at 45 seconds I can use the skill pretty much every single fight. At the most every other fight. I find enough flexability and options on changing my build I never need to be stuck with the same build or rotation very long.. I have found if I start getting bored using a certain combination of skills I just respec into something new.. people I guess feel even if you respec it plays out the same since its basic builders and finishers. To me the big fun is trying to find that combo that works so well together. How it actually plays out and feels is good enough for me. I can see how some may find it simplistic but its not just the actual fighting, you have to take in to account passives and how you have your deck set up overall in the first place.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I haven't played AoC in awhile but just watching that I can say I like how TSW combat looks and plays out a lot more.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I respect your opinion. I must totally disagree . The combat gets better, the progression is faster in many ways because your not focused on some end game magical number your more concerned with progress of char as a whole, and the story. This game has chalk loads of occult myth, and story as well as an escalated feel with the war so far. The action has gotten better as I move on. Try again maybe your build, or skills are not set up to be cohesive. Yes I am out of kingsmouth , I have around 80 ap and if I han't changed specs earlier as well as boosting all Talismans to ql3 I would be beyong the Q7 I am. ( I would have to double check after work for exact amount of ability points)
Farstryder,
So basically you are mad because TSW is not holding your hand? Sometimes I wonder if so called "experienced MMO players" even know what they actually want - they complain that games have become too easy but if some MMO tries to break out from WoW formula and brings back a bit challenge they start to complain that they expect their Farmville.
But you here expect TSW to be different from what it is because YOU have changed and you want it. Sorry but this sounds like a spoiled kid of a MEMEME generation on ego trip. Being a complete casual myself these days I enjoy TSW and I enjoy it being a little bit harder than an average MMO.
Everyone who plays this game knows the combat is horrible, or should have at least the common sense to know it's far from perfect.
But, Some of You People on this site seem to come here just to complain like bed wetting, infants. Funcom have already stated themselfs countless times on their forums that the combat system is not up to par, and they are looking to improve the character creation and combat system in the next comming months. They already know this so it isn't an issue. Whining about it won't get you anywhere, or make the game any better then it is. If you are dissapointed by the game then why did you sit and play through all the beta's? what kind of a slow-minded assinine-moron gamer realizes the game isn't what he expected after playing the game after months of beta testing? I'm sorry but I just don't understand that logic.
There are many shades of grey between easy - difficult - challanging - tiresome and overly complicated.
Hey, of course it is MY wishes. I pay, I say my wish. What's wrong with that?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert