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Gamebreaker TV about GW2: brawn vs brains
The_Korrigan
Member RarePosts: 3,460
in Guild Wars 2
http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/brawn-vs-brains/
Very good article.
"Your progression is dictated by your personal improvement, not by obtaining a new helmet that grants you +30 to Pwnage."
The author also talks about why some less skilled gamers may not like the skill based approach of GW2, where you can't compensate your bad gameplay with more powerful gear.
Another good quote: "Instead of needing to farm gear in order to the play the game, Guild Wars 2 allows you to simply play the game."
Respect, walk, what did you say?
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Yes, they are back !
Comments
It's kind of funny how they talk about players not being good enough to do well and how that might discourage them from playing and getting better.
Can you imagine how awful a game would have to be in order to allow bad players to do well? Obviously we can since there are many examples of this... but doesn't it seem a bit strange that anyone would make or want to play a game that is setup so that literally anyone can be good at it?
Maybe hopscotch with only one square and it doesn't matter if you actually land in that one square?
Jump rope where you don't actually have to jump over the rope?
Tilted pool tables?
Pong without goals?
Pac-Man without ghosts?
MMO Raiding? (Oh snap, I went there.)
One thing is sure, people who are used to compensate for their mediocrity with superior gear won't be able to do that in GW2. In WoW or SW:TOR for instance, one can simply farm PvP gear and then faceroll less geared players without great difficulty even if they suck at the game. In GW2, those people will become canon fodder in PvP if they don't improve their gameplay, since there's no magic stat (resilience, expertise) that makes you win even if you suck.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Nice article. The whole mindset where people claim that if there's no endless gear stats progression then there's no end game. Time to break that.
Guild Wars 2 Youtube Croatian Maniacs
My Guild Wars titles
Nice article.
Skill based and not gear based is the reason I liked Guild Wars 1 back in the day (and I still play it) I never liked how so many devs make their games gear-based in PVP, there is nothing more worthless than dying to someone because he was grinding for better gear more than you.
If I may add to the article, there are no random numbers in the game either, there is no 50% evade or 20% block. Aegis blocks attacks, blind causes attacks to fail, there is no "roll"
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
GW2 has only 5 weapon skills per bar, how skillful can one be with so little skills available to them. I'm sorry but the learning curve for this game is very low. If you can't figure out how to use those skills limited skills to the best of your ability then I can't see how skill will determine how well you do. It isn't difficult to figure it out.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
How is skill defined by the number of buttons you can press?
And you have 10 different skills available at any time, not 5, not to mention the "finishers" and also combos with other classes skills, and of course dodging.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
The common mantra associated with GW2 that says, "With this game, you can just have fun", is based on personal preferences of a certain type of gamers. How people have fun is very subjective, for example, one of the reasons I like MMORPGs is because I can improve my characters over time. I am certain that many play MMORPGs for that reason. If I want to play more skill focused game, I would play FPS or RTS etc., or a hybrid MMORPG that combines theorycrafting, personal skill and improving your character overtime.
Even the title of this thread tries to be demeaning towards people who enjoy improving their characters, trying to postulate that it is somehow inferior to those who think that they are akin to the korean micro-management gods. Sorry, but improving your character has always been a major feature in RPGs. If you want to compete in PvP, like in WoW, you will have the best class, the best build and the best gear to do it. In other words, it requires effort. You will still need personal skill and lots of practise to compete for the top spots. GW2 really just removes gear from consideration (aka improving your character over time). You still need the best class and the best build and lots of personal skill and practise.
All the above in mind, the PvE game of GW2 is probably not going to have much longevity for some players. I probably play a character through it once and do some of the harder stuff, but I am not interested in cosmetic improvements. I like to optimize my character for various tasks and I get bored rather quick, if there is no way to accomplish it.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Please don't post if you haven't played the game. Thank you!
Some people won't be able to figure out that they have more than 5 skills and they'll do really, really bad.
Most people will realize that there are 10 skill slots.
Even more people will realize that most classes have more than one weapon set that can be swapped, the 2 classes that only have one weapon set available have other ways to swap skills (Engis have kits that change the first 5 slots and Eles have 4 attunements giving 4x5=20 different spells for the first 5 slots as well as different effects for swapping attunements).
So already we can see a line being drawn between good and bad players.
There is ~15 to 20 skills that you can actively use on 7/8 classes. The engineer can use up to ~40-45.
For instance, An Elemetalist equips a weapon and has access to 20 weapon skills as well as a heal skill, 3 utility skills and an elite skill. For them it is 25 unique active skills through the use of 1 weapon, all of which can be switched out for 30+ different unique active skills.
For another instance, a Mesmer can use two weapon sets that gives them access to 10 skills. They also also have 1 heal, 3 utility and 1 elite. On top of that, they have 4 class skills. That is 19 unique active skills, 15 of which can be switched out for over 30 different skills.
So no, there are not on'y 5 weapon skills per bar. Hopefully this helps you.
Here we go again. You guys just can't stop can you but hey whatever...
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
Correction... five weapon skills per set, two sets of weapons (some professions are exceptions in that they have more skills available through different means) meaning ten skills for weapons, in addition to one healing skill, three utility skills and one elite. So, at an absolute minimum, 15 skills. Then you add your burst abilities, utilizing from F1 through F4 depending on the profession. Then you add in traits to add distinctive flavor, etc.
Plus, with the lack of a trinity and roles being smeared through your skills, you should understand that you need to understand what your skills do and when to use them. You simply can't spam skills off cooldown or you'll be gimping yourself. For example, skill #5 on the mesmer greatsword is a knockback. It would be useless to waste that skill while the enemy is at maximum range for skill #1, which also increases damage at further range.
One thing they've said about their combat which has held true so far... it's easy to learn, but difficult to master. What skills will help control the enemy to keep him off me or prevent or reduce the damage I'm about to take? When should I dodge? As a mesmer, is this a good time for Mind Wrack or should I watch for an interrupt opportunity? Should I trait my abilities to add a little extra control, is more support needed for allies, or should I try and kick up the damage? What utility skills would work for me better in this situation, and when should I use them? Which weapon sets will best help me fight comfortably and effectively?
To your credit, you got one part of your post right. I left that in bold for you.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Not quite true. There are less chance-based mechanics, but they aren't gone completely. You still have crit chance, and you still have skills with a %-chance to proc.
Swapping weapons but still at any time in the game you only get to use 5 weapon skills at a time. It isn't difficult! Yeah tons of skill right there.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
Umm, I guess it won't help you.
Thankfully, you have a ton of WoW clones (and WoW itself) which cater to your gear grind playstyle. The EQ clone model is deeply rooted in some people, but there have already been several MMORPGs where the gear grind based progression wasn't the main focus of the game - like e.g. UO and AC1. Thinking that the only way to make a MMORPG endgame is to make people grind for better gear endlessly is just wrong.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
There are 101 skills for the Guardian, 116 for the Warrior, 121 for the Engineer, 152 for the Elementalist, need I go on?
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Oh good God....
It does not take a mathematical genius to understand that well-designed synergies, cross-class abilities, no hard targetting, a wealth of persistent ground targetted effects, weapon swapping and active dodging, interrupts and a significant variety of buffs/debuffs some of which effect each other (to use 'old' terms) means a complex combat experience with a large number of moment to moment situationally based choices where real skill = real advantage.
To put it simply - the skills available on your bar in GW2 act as multipliers to each other in terms of choices - and are further expanded by teamwork with OTHER people's bars.... the WoW tradition has more buttons but these are much more 'discrete' and act in an additive fashion when giving you options. Moreover, many traditional MMO buttons can be taken off the bar altoghether because they are useless or sub-par - not something necessary in GW2.
Besides - how is 15 buttons as standard (for some 20 or 25!), a lack of choice anyway - even considering the customisation, intra and infra class-synergies, especially taking into account that you have to pay THAT much more attention to what your opponent is doing in real time to land the effects of those buttons and avoid theirs....
You can keep your multiple rows of 20 buttons, six-step button mash combo and bar-watching MMOs - been there.... done that.
Your post constitutes a shallow 'analysis' of the facts and a consequently inherently flawed conclusion with no bearing on the reality of the actual game experience....
Shooters have what, 4-5 skills you can use at a time?
Shoot, jump, melee, aim (zoom), grenade.
All about skill.
MOBA's like LoL have what, 4-5 active skills plus your basic attack?
Expand your mind...
Play GW2 structured PvP where all gear is equal and everyone gets a maxed out toon, then come back and say there is no room for skillful play in GW2 - I dare ya!
Still will be plenty of gear + stats to acquire in the road from 1-80 in WvW and PvE.
Yeah, I screamed something similar during the last Chess International... "How can you think that a game with only 6 piece types can involve any skill? No twitch! No Third army! Only dueling! Dueling is for noobz!"
For some strange reason, I was thrown out of the venue. Bunch of carebears.
I'm sure the tennis players at Wimbledon would appreciate that too. I mean, only two players on the field... that game definitely doesn't require any skill compared to e.g. football
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
you guys are going way too far, how can u say that an fps or a strategy game require skills, you can actually play with 2 skill buttons, left and rifht mouse clicks !
The tip for
The win is
cooperation.
Nice article.
It's definitely a tricky subject. One the one hand, most people enjoy a challenge / skill. On the other, this is an MMO, and it has to be accessible.
Personally, I think GW2 does a pretty good job w/ this, by starting this off pretty easy, and then scaling up the difficulty w/ harder mobs & mechanics as you try and do harder stuff. I find this both educates players as they go, by letting players learn on their own, but also gives a feeling of 'i died, and I can see why' whereas many other games it's more 'crap, i died, i need better gear / need to lvl more'.
If it doesn't allow for extensive key customization, macroable mouse shortcuts and at least 120 keystrokes per minute, it should be branded 'carebear' instantly.
Also, Wimbledon is a themepark, since we all know grass is gimp. All the lewt teenis players play grit.
@Topic: Nice and fair analisys. Especially the 'end-game' bit.
/facepalm
Yes. Only 5 weapon skills at once. Plus 5 utilities. Plus 5 more weapon skils with weapon swap. Plus more for elemtalist's attunements. More for engineer's toolkits. More for class mechanics. More for environmental weapons. More or siege weapons (in WvW). Need I go on?
On another note... why do you feel the need to constantly troll GW2 threads with your misinformation?