Who are these people who say they would gladly pay more than $15 month for a whorthwhile game? ...
Probably people like me.
I don't care whether I pay €10, €15 or €25 a month for my MMORPG. I want a quality MMORPG experience and I would pay to get this quality experience.
How about 50 or 60 month? How high will you go? Maybe that'll be the new thing? High end gaming exclusiveley for those with the means and will to pay for it. Smaller communities, but it will keep the riff raff out.
Strange. I don't live in a basement or flip burgers. I also probably make more money than you do. Just because YOU are willing to pay $15 USD a month for games that I consider to be mediocre as far as mmorpgs are concerned does not make you better than me or anyone else.
"probably" make more money than me. If you do, good for you im happy for you. If you do and your such a big penny pincher you should be well retired by now then living the golden life.
Again 15$ is nothing for a month of entertainment. considering the alternative, crying about 15$ a month wheater its a good great or piss poor game is absurd. Its by far the best value of entertainment, if a person likes what mmo's is offering.
The thing is, why pay $15 when you can pay $0 and get the same thing? That's what it comes down to. If 2 games are offering almost the exact same thing, but one is B2P while the other is P2P, why would anyone choose to play the P2P game? Hence the P2P game would need to offer extra value than the B2P game does not have in order to be worth it.
It's like paying $4 vs $20 for the same burger. That $20 burger is totally not worth buying unless it's using something like Kobe beef.
Its all about what people want to play. For example back in december it was TOR everyone wanted to play tor. You couldnt play TOR without paying, so thats why people pay. Youll see it again on the next big p2p title too.
Now why people throw common sense away and get suckered in by devs would be a much more interesting topic. Just like this evryone has thrown common sense out with GWII being b2p. No one knows how this game is going to turn out, we dont know how fast new content and updates will be rolled out. We have not seen the side effects of the b2p model yet, but everyone wants to crown it as some pinacle acheivment. Like all MMO's GWII is going to have its honeymoon period. The real test of MMO's starts the 3rd month, after release. Then this topic of b2p vs p2p vs f2p will have a lot more points for discussion.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
I don't mine subscription fees as long as I think it is worth it. Success or failure of GW2 won't change it. For example, now TSW devs say they will be brining new content on monthly basis. If they will really do that and this content is not like 1-2h of additional gameplay, than the sub fees for TSW will be justified for me.
Id pay if i felt the dev pumped out enough content to make it worth it and released the expensions for free. Why pay for them when i pay all year long for update every 6 months/year ( i played ffxi for 6 years ) but recently the dev seem to work a bit more for their subs ( trion or Tsw for now )
GW2 has proven how they will conduct buisness with GW1 as far as the cs goes, it would be a bad idea to mix them up with asian f2p or even p2p gone freemium.
I don't like sub games. The sub encourages the endless repetive endgames we have been saddled with since Blizzavision industrialized the model in Wrath.
GW2 will not change the industry. Too many people like too many different things for one game to appeal to everyone. It might encourage others to think outside of the standard box, though.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
It's kind of simple if you ask me. It's just like buying a house. Some people pay for the house outright, and from time to time they might still have to pay for a new garage, or addition on the house. Other people rent. If they want to have a garage they still have to pay for it, but they don't own it. They continue to pay rent on it each and every month. As someone said in an earlier post, it's very honest. The honest part is, if you don't pay your rent, you don't have a place to live.
So people can decide who's smarter, the people that buy or the people that rent.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I thought I wouldn't.. but since TSW I've kinda changed my mind a bit, I'll definately keep trying out some sub mmos now. I plan on spending what I would spend on a sub in GW2 anyway, well.. probably. So far whats been shown in the GW2 cash shop has no interest to me at all.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
So far no F2P or B2P game has been able to deliver the amount and type of content that I enjoy so I'll most likely continue playing subscription MMOs. If EVE or the next UO were to go B2P and still deliver high quality content every few months I wouldn't complain though.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well even funnier is the fact the thread topic/title seems to have gone right over your head while the rest of us "get it"
I agree there....I'm a big fan of the B2P model, but it has yet to be really proven as an option for a "true mmorpg" as most people define the genre. GW1 was very successful with the model, but it was a CORPG (as many people here love to point out). The biggest difference between most MMOs and other types of video games is the amount of time an effort put into keeping it fresh for players. Most games, if they even have an online option, satisfy people with a few static maps and a bug fix or two.
Comparing MMOs and other video games is kind of apples and oranges, as most of us realize. However, I do think we have arrived at the time where B2P is a very good option for MMO's.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Well even funnier is the fact the thread topic/title seems to have gone right over your head while the rest of us "get it"
I agree there....I'm a big fan of the B2P model, but it has yet to be really proven as an option for a "true mmorpg" as most people define the genre. GW1 was very successful with the model, but it was a CORPG (as many people here love to point out). The biggest difference between most MMOs and other types of video games is the amount of time an effort put into keeping it fresh for players. Most games, if they even have an online option, satisfy people with a few static maps and a bug fix or two.
Comparing MMOs and other video games is kind of apples and oranges, as most of us realize. However, I do think we have arrived at the time where B2P is a very good option for MMO's.
Well this will be my last post in this thread, unless someone directly quotes me, and I feel the need to reply but here it is:
I dont consider these new MMO's really true mmo's if you do great. I am an old school mmo'er, I see these new MMO's as online co-op RPG's. I dont enjoy the gameplay in these new MMO's, I wont buy the game nor will I pay any sub for this type of game, after all like others have pointed out why buy a game you dont enjoy. I enjoy long term MMO's not 90 day'ers. I dont see GWII being any different. I am not going to buy the game I feel it would only hold my attention for a breif period of time. The only game I see on the horizon that I (I stress I, you may not agree) feel might warrent a sub would be Archeage. But I dont know yet its still far to early to tell, I do not blindly jump on bandwagons, I always take the overly cautious approach on MMO's now.
PS: when I say you in my post I am not directly refering to the person quoted or anyone else.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Well even funnier is the fact the thread topic/title seems to have gone right over your head while the rest of us "get it"
I agree there....I'm a big fan of the B2P model, but it has yet to be really proven as an option for a "true mmorpg" as most people define the genre. GW1 was very successful with the model, but it was a CORPG (as many people here love to point out). The biggest difference between most MMOs and other types of video games is the amount of time an effort put into keeping it fresh for players. Most games, if they even have an online option, satisfy people with a few static maps and a bug fix or two.
Comparing MMOs and other video games is kind of apples and oranges, as most of us realize. However, I do think we have arrived at the time where B2P is a very good option for MMO's.
Well this will be my last post in this thread, unless someone directly quotes me, and I feel the need to reply but here it is:
I dont consider these new MMO's really true mmo's if you do great. I am an old school mmo'er, I see these new MMO's as online co-op RPG's. I dont enjoy the gameplay in these new MMO's, I wont buy the game nor will I pay any sub for this type of game, after all like others have pointed out why buy a game you dont enjoy. I enjoy long term MMO's not 90 day'ers. I dont see GWII being any different. I am not going to buy the game I feel it would only hold my attention for a breif period of time. The only game I see on the horizon that I (I stress I, you may not agree) feel might warrent a sub would be Archeage. But I dont know yet its still far to early to tell, I do not blindly jump on bandwagons, I always take the overly cautious approach on MMO's now.
PS: when I say you in my post I am not directly refering to the person quoted or anyone else.
Dare I say I think you and I both seek the elusive "Virtual World" type of online game.
Also I find it kinda ridiculous that someone would see that one company was successful with their Buy to Play game, and then swear off all subscription mmorpg games because of that.
"Ho boy! Guild Wars 2 was a great financial success! I will never pay for any subscription again no matter how much I would enjoy the game!"
That's just it. The B2P model is essentially the same as the F2P model, except with B2P you have to pay for the client as well.
Both will have cash shops to sustain them.
A pay to win cash shop like in most F2P games is something that can be avoided due to the box price. There is a really substantial difference between a real F2P cash shop and a B2P one. The argument that both have cash shops is like saying both are MMO's. P2P games can have cash shops as well.
If B2P is essantially F2P and essentially P2P with cash shop because of said cash shop, then what in blazes is your point?
Is GW1 not successful? I don't see many game company follow the B2P footstep.
That being said, every player likes B2P because its the cheapest.
Actually, F2P is the cheapest.
I have no problem with any of the payment options. I enjoyed WoW (P2P), I enjoyed RoM (F2P) and I will enjoy GW2 (B2P). Since I don't care much about cash shops, I got no qualm with any of it as long as the game is well done and worth my time (not necessarily my money.)
Well, with a couple of hundred votes in on this highly unscientific survey it appears about 50% of the folks will still continue to purchase sub based games as long as they are good, and even of the 45% against it a large portion of them might still buy a sub title if it knocks their socks off.
I know we can't draw any market conclusions except to say that of those folks who took the poll on this site, most are willing to continue to pay a sub should the title warrant it.
I almost wonder if an unexpected result of GW2's B2P / cash shop experiement (assuming it is successful) will be that more titles that might have been totally F2P will be encourage to try the B2P/cash shop route to get some sort of up front money instead. Will be interesting to see.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Strange. I don't live in a basement or flip burgers. I also probably make more money than you do. Just because YOU are willing to pay $15 USD a month for games that I consider to be mediocre as far as mmorpgs are concerned does not make you better than me or anyone else.
"probably" make more money than me. If you do, good for you im happy for you. If you do and your such a big penny pincher you should be well retired by now then living the golden life.
Again 15$ is nothing for a month of entertainment. considering the alternative, crying about 15$ a month wheater its a good great or piss poor game is absurd. Its by far the best value of entertainment, if a person likes what mmo's is offering.
The thing is, why pay $15 when you can pay $0 and get the same thing? That's what it comes down to. If 2 games are offering almost the exact same thing, but one is B2P while the other is P2P, why would anyone choose to play the P2P game? Hence the P2P game would need to offer extra value than the B2P game does not have in order to be worth it.
It's like paying $4 vs $20 for the same burger. That $20 burger is totally not worth buying unless it's using something like Kobe beef.
Its all about what people want to play. For example back in december it was TOR everyone wanted to play tor. You couldnt play TOR without paying, so thats why people pay. Youll see it again on the next big p2p title too.
Now why people throw common sense away and get suckered in by devs would be a much more interesting topic. Just like this evryone has thrown common sense out with GWII being b2p. No one knows how this game is going to turn out, we dont know how fast new content and updates will be rolled out. We have not seen the side effects of the b2p model yet, but everyone wants to crown it as some pinacle acheivment. Like all MMO's GWII is going to have its honeymoon period. The real test of MMO's starts the 3rd month, after release. Then this topic of b2p vs p2p vs f2p will have a lot more points for discussion.
You may want to read the OP again, the poll is based on a IF scenario that may or may not happen and the answers should be within that frame, I voted not likely but if GW2 never or barely has any content updates in reality then it would be very likely.
Comments
How about 50 or 60 month? How high will you go? Maybe that'll be the new thing? High end gaming exclusiveley for those with the means and will to pay for it. Smaller communities, but it will keep the riff raff out.
Its all about what people want to play. For example back in december it was TOR everyone wanted to play tor. You couldnt play TOR without paying, so thats why people pay. Youll see it again on the next big p2p title too.
Now why people throw common sense away and get suckered in by devs would be a much more interesting topic. Just like this evryone has thrown common sense out with GWII being b2p. No one knows how this game is going to turn out, we dont know how fast new content and updates will be rolled out. We have not seen the side effects of the b2p model yet, but everyone wants to crown it as some pinacle acheivment. Like all MMO's GWII is going to have its honeymoon period. The real test of MMO's starts the 3rd month, after release. Then this topic of b2p vs p2p vs f2p will have a lot more points for discussion.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Does the '15 bux' really affect whether a person is going to play a game or not?
If I am getting an MMO, i'm not really looking at the '$$$'.
I'm looking at 'how many RL friends are getting this' or 'is it something I want to play'.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I don't mine subscription fees as long as I think it is worth it. Success or failure of GW2 won't change it. For example, now TSW devs say they will be brining new content on monthly basis. If they will really do that and this content is not like 1-2h of additional gameplay, than the sub fees for TSW will be justified for me.
I cant help but laugh at the thread title.
B2P has been a success since video games existed.
Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
Join me on Twitch Facebook Twitter
In case no one on this forum has been able to figure it out, I'm of the "not a chance in hell, B2P forever baby!" crowd.
IMHO the necessity of subs is no longer valid, so I definitely won't even consider it.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
F2P titles and B2P titles are starting to edge out subscription based games in terms of quality, originality and features...
Unless the sub based games bring something amazing to the table then why would I bother?
Why would I want to pay a sub for something that I shouldn't need to if b2p(with cosmetic only cs) is a success?
Id pay if i felt the dev pumped out enough content to make it worth it and released the expensions for free. Why pay for them when i pay all year long for update every 6 months/year ( i played ffxi for 6 years ) but recently the dev seem to work a bit more for their subs ( trion or Tsw for now )
GW2 has proven how they will conduct buisness with GW1 as far as the cs goes, it would be a bad idea to mix them up with asian f2p or even p2p gone freemium.
I don't like sub games. The sub encourages the endless repetive endgames we have been saddled with since Blizzavision industrialized the model in Wrath.
GW2 will not change the industry. Too many people like too many different things for one game to appeal to everyone. It might encourage others to think outside of the standard box, though.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
It's kind of simple if you ask me. It's just like buying a house. Some people pay for the house outright, and from time to time they might still have to pay for a new garage, or addition on the house. Other people rent. If they want to have a garage they still have to pay for it, but they don't own it. They continue to pay rent on it each and every month. As someone said in an earlier post, it's very honest. The honest part is, if you don't pay your rent, you don't have a place to live.
So people can decide who's smarter, the people that buy or the people that rent.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
I thought I wouldn't.. but since TSW I've kinda changed my mind a bit, I'll definately keep trying out some sub mmos now. I plan on spending what I would spend on a sub in GW2 anyway, well.. probably. So far whats been shown in the GW2 cash shop has no interest to me at all.
So far no F2P or B2P game has been able to deliver the amount and type of content that I enjoy so I'll most likely continue playing subscription MMOs. If EVE or the next UO were to go B2P and still deliver high quality content every few months I wouldn't complain though.
Well even funnier is the fact the thread topic/title seems to have gone right over your head while the rest of us "get it"
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I agree there....I'm a big fan of the B2P model, but it has yet to be really proven as an option for a "true mmorpg" as most people define the genre. GW1 was very successful with the model, but it was a CORPG (as many people here love to point out). The biggest difference between most MMOs and other types of video games is the amount of time an effort put into keeping it fresh for players. Most games, if they even have an online option, satisfy people with a few static maps and a bug fix or two.
Comparing MMOs and other video games is kind of apples and oranges, as most of us realize. However, I do think we have arrived at the time where B2P is a very good option for MMO's.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
Well this will be my last post in this thread, unless someone directly quotes me, and I feel the need to reply but here it is:
I dont consider these new MMO's really true mmo's if you do great. I am an old school mmo'er, I see these new MMO's as online co-op RPG's. I dont enjoy the gameplay in these new MMO's, I wont buy the game nor will I pay any sub for this type of game, after all like others have pointed out why buy a game you dont enjoy. I enjoy long term MMO's not 90 day'ers. I dont see GWII being any different. I am not going to buy the game I feel it would only hold my attention for a breif period of time. The only game I see on the horizon that I (I stress I, you may not agree) feel might warrent a sub would be Archeage. But I dont know yet its still far to early to tell, I do not blindly jump on bandwagons, I always take the overly cautious approach on MMO's now.
PS: when I say you in my post I am not directly refering to the person quoted or anyone else.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Dare I say I think you and I both seek the elusive "Virtual World" type of online game.
Also I find it kinda ridiculous that someone would see that one company was successful with their Buy to Play game, and then swear off all subscription mmorpg games because of that.
"Ho boy! Guild Wars 2 was a great financial success! I will never pay for any subscription again no matter how much I would enjoy the game!"
lolwut
Is GW1 not successful? I don't see many game company follow the B2P footstep.
That being said, every player likes B2P because its the cheapest.
A pay to win cash shop like in most F2P games is something that can be avoided due to the box price. There is a really substantial difference between a real F2P cash shop and a B2P one. The argument that both have cash shops is like saying both are MMO's. P2P games can have cash shops as well.
If B2P is essantially F2P and essentially P2P with cash shop because of said cash shop, then what in blazes is your point?
I judge a game by the game itself not its payment method. So yes I will continue to sub if the game is worth it.
Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
Actually, F2P is the cheapest.
I have no problem with any of the payment options. I enjoyed WoW (P2P), I enjoyed RoM (F2P) and I will enjoy GW2 (B2P). Since I don't care much about cash shops, I got no qualm with any of it as long as the game is well done and worth my time (not necessarily my money.)
Well, with a couple of hundred votes in on this highly unscientific survey it appears about 50% of the folks will still continue to purchase sub based games as long as they are good, and even of the 45% against it a large portion of them might still buy a sub title if it knocks their socks off.
I know we can't draw any market conclusions except to say that of those folks who took the poll on this site, most are willing to continue to pay a sub should the title warrant it.
I almost wonder if an unexpected result of GW2's B2P / cash shop experiement (assuming it is successful) will be that more titles that might have been totally F2P will be encourage to try the B2P/cash shop route to get some sort of up front money instead. Will be interesting to see.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You may want to read the OP again, the poll is based on a IF scenario that may or may not happen and the answers should be within that frame, I voted not likely but if GW2 never or barely has any content updates in reality then it would be very likely.