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The purpose of grinding gear for PvP is defeaten
sagil
Member CommonPosts: 291
Lets just wait until the developers know about this. No one wants to grind gear to be better at PvP. Everyone wants skilled PvP only, and LoL and other MOBA games have proven that.
So why grind gear in instances? Hmm... if that's your thing, then go ahead. But we oldbag gamers that have been around for awhile have grown tired of it.
I don't understand why I still pay for mmorpgs. But I won't anymore. I will wait for a good sandboxy mmo to be out and play single player games now and then.
MMORPGs have become Single Player Social Game. What I want is a social game that is massive, player driven but with smart programming to allow it to feel like you live in a real world. Why can one man pull creative stuff out (xsyon with zombie monsters from player abandoned camps... still havent played it though... too small) and 100 manned teams be so crusty and simple minded to copy stuff or make it completely a ride with different design for so long?
I don't mean a second world game. I want high fantasy, co-operation in all features of the game, and only achievements to be the core of the game instead of gear. Achievements that can make you build a unique house or something.
All ideas go into this thread. What ideas can we come up with for the developers out there that are looking for new inventions? It has to be different than the current mmo features. Also blending is fine, Savage 2 is a good example of a good blending.
Comments
What about gaining better gear through pvp? Is that bad too?
I like gear progression. If I want pure skill based game I will play LoL, MOBA, starcraft or whatever, which I did play. But I do enjoy gear progression in mmorpg.
Why do you enjoy gear progression?
Gear progression is fine as long as it's kept out of PVP.
It's amazing how much fun MMO PVP usually tends to be on the way to max level and then completely sucks once PVP gear is introduced.
I think you'll find that in almost every case, it's for 3 reasons; a) because they get to show off their status by exhibiting cool gear ("I have the Uber Boots of Baddassery and you have regular leather boots") and b) because they like having an advantage ("Heh, I have all top tier PvP gear, ther's no way that guy who just started can beat me") and c) because people who don't really like PvP need an "incentive" to do it ("Why would I fight another player if I'm not gonna get something for it?").
Gear progression is usually liked by PvP wannabes, ganker and griefers.
Because I do. I like the endless klling and getting better gear to fight harder enemy.
Besides why dont' you just go play LoL, MOBA, starcraft, FPS, etc.
Instead of asking why my mmorpg can't have character progression, why not ask yourself why don't you just play those 30 minutes mini games if you don't want progression.
I think for many, gear progression just makes sense, especially in an RPG. Why should a steel sword crafted by a master weaponsmith be equal to your average, crude bronze sword? Gear progression adds believability to a game world, and leads players to constantly improve their characters. It is responsible for maintaining a real economy, providing meaningful trade, and stimulating character development.
You mention that you are awaiting a "good sandboxy mmo", yet you fail to acknowledge that pretty much any decent sandbox REQUIRES a powerful economical facet, which in turn REQUIRES gear progression. I do believe that focusing a game entirely on gear is not the best choice, as player skill is something that also just makes sense, but gear should nevertheless play an important role.
Why do you enjoy gear progression?
Because I do. I like the endless klling and getting better gear to fight harder enemy.
Besides why dont' you just go play LoL, MOBA, starcraft, FPS, etc.
Instead of asking why my mmorpg can't have character progression, why not ask yourself why don't you just play those 30 minutes mini games if you don't want progression.
Yeah... I don't get these people who play RPGs and then say they don't want gear progression. You know what they would call SWTOR without gear progression? They would call it Jedi Outcast, a game which already exists. Skill-based PVP = FPS. Gear-based = RPG.Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
gear progression is NOT required for economy. player-made-only and/or degrading gear supports economy.
LOL this!!!
Having an adventurer wanting to replace his rusty sword with a shiny, +5 against goblins one is god. Having everyone in epic gear grinding there way to get from +390 ilevel to +392 ilevel turn the game into a sad chore.
Core problem is that you can't keep giving players stronger gears wuthout a way for them to loose it at the same time. Themeparks have this inflation and that's what imho must be changed.
So we need decay, taxes, debuff, thievery etc to keep the economy alive.
Things like true repair (while the blacksmith repair your plate chest, you can't use it for a week) or situational (this necklace is great against zombies only) or that come with a choice (exellent sword but you'll move twice slower with it).
Of course that's also mean gear should't be as important as skill. Like Gandalf or Han Solo, a good player should always have a way to beat a mediocre one who has better armor.
People who love to grind gear are the saddest bunch of people in MMO gaming. They may as well play a FPS with lobby system and grind the same half-dozen arenas over and over and over.... They don't NEED an actual game attached to it - just a handfull of places to fight, lots of Shiny Gear Of Nerdish Awesomeness to drop for them and that's all they need for a good time.
I don't want a MOBA game. I want to feel the immersion when I PvP and I also want a massive world. Not a DotA map and then pewpew towers until you destroy the base. I am a player that has followed MMOs for 10 years. And ask yourself... why are you not playing a family game with mini games instead of mmorpgs? That's the same question I felt I got from you.
Let me educate you a bit... Massive = large seamingless open world. Multiplayer = network connected people in the same world. Online = only through network. RP = you take a role of a player.
Nowhere does it say that MMORPG has to be gear grind dependant. That's just a made up formula for addicted newbies and gamers that are not twice as old as the gamer that left because of repetitive grinding in MMOs.
Planetside 2 will be your game then, a MMOFPS which is what you are basically asking for. (you want the combat to be fair and balanced, one way to go for sure, but not the core design of most MMORPG's)
Long ago and far away some MMORPG developers were designing the combat system and decided to reward players who put in the most time/effort/longevity/paying a sub fee into the game by making them more powerful than other players.
It isn't fair, but then it isn't fair that I don't have the hand eye coordination of a 20 year old either, so I prefer games that balance the PVP a bit by letting gear matter. (think of it as sort of a handicapping system as used by golf or bowling leagues)
You'll find that in the end, a very skilled player can normally destroy the other person as long as the gear (and level) differences aren't that great.
You'll also find that losing gracefully and knowing when to run away because you are overmatched are also good components of MMORPG's.
Edit: Have you ever tried Face of Mankind btw, seems to be some sort of MMO shooter in a sandbox environment. F2P to try apparently.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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A game like WoW, for example, should try having competitive PvP where your team gets to meet in a locker room, choose the max level armor of your choice, modify it to your choice, then enter the match in a state where it's your builds, skills and knowledge of the system that makes the difference, not your gear iLevel.
Just ponder that for a moment. Your five man arena team, for example, enters a private locker room instance where you can all chat amonst yourselves, work together if needed optimizing gear, plan strategies and enter the arena from there. You could, of course, store gear templates for "quick changing". You could have an arena map on a table or something similar that you could mark up to help plan things out. I think it would work rather well.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Gear progression is completely fine in a pvp game as long as you understand that there is a distinction between e-sport pvp and longer term territorial warfare. Preferable that progression would also be group and not indiviual based, kept to economic/crafting skills only.
If you are going to have arenas and general e-sport pvp as the focus than it is pretty pointless to actually have a major ass grind. The "grind" should be in how long it takes you as an individual to l2p as an individual and as part of a small team.
If the game is going to have armies building and sieging castles/space stations/whatever, then economic progression in order to finance that is a great thing to have.
For me, ideally you would have skill centric combat, with no actual character progression aside from in crafting skills. Yet larger, more organised guilds/clans/corps could fund armour for armies and levy income from territories and trade, ensuring the meta game is intact. Individuals would be able to save up for armour, but only larger groups would be able to maintain a longer term war effort.
You would get a nice balance of skilled "instant combat" and a longer term, tactical and dynamic meta game. Feck knows why developers don't just have economic/crafting progression. I guess it is because without having to grind absolutely everything, you would realise how piss poor a great deal of their game is.
Still, even more ideally people would be able to grasp the fact that what works well in one game does not always work well in another.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Should try pvp with 5 skills only and no gear then it would be intersting.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
I honestly don't understand this argument, because you are giving those 20 year olds with the better hand eye a double advantage by adding better gear. So you feel gimped and want to be gimped even further, because that's what that system does.
Three words for the OP:
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I'd say those sad people are much better than people with your attitude up their in your lofty tower...
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Im bored while waiting for sins of a solar empire to finish downloading x.x FUUUUUUUUUU TIME WARNER SLOW INTERNET!
I dont get why people like to grind gear. I dont like it but if it floats your boat, then go have at it o.O What I dont get is getting an achievement for every random thing you do. CONGRATULATIONS! PLEASE WEAR THIS "I HAVE COMPLETED THE TUTORIAL" BADGE! I dont mind stats saying how many friggin porings Ive killed but the whole achievements just put me off o.O Its like....wtf?
I dont think that pvp should be gear grinding though. I prefer a more balancced "console" or "OMG ITS NOT A RPG" pvp. Like smite or LoL or dawn of war or company of heroes or umvc3 or sc2 or mount and blade or friggin...anything
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Yeah, I really don't like that as well.
For instance: I'm level 5, running around, decreasing the population of random frogs because I want their legs for cooking, and a big notice pops up on my screen and says, "Congatulations! You have earned the title 'Frogstomper!'"
Frogstomper... really.
However, I think having titles and achievements for things that are exceedingly difficult or take an incredible time commitment to comlpete is fun.
There's nothing wrong with what youw want. There's something wrong with you questioning what I want is wrong.
I dont' want to play a pvp game. I want to play a mmorpg war game. I want a huge power gap between good and bad gear. I want a game which people fight for "resources". Fighting for resources is the game. And if there's no advantage in power, why fight for power?
The power gap dont' have to come from grinding, it can come from achievment such as winning a gladiator match, it can come from simply being the king and general of the nation, guild leader or officer of a guild.
Yeh.
In fact, the saddest people are the one who is whining all day about the good old days intead of enjoying today's entertainment. Don't like MMO today? Do something else. It is not the only entertainment in the world, you know.
BTW, i do prefer an ARPG with lobby system. However, many MMORPGs are like that, why shouldn't i play them then?
This is so true.
If you look at WOW, they made gear progression exponential. That makes gear matter WAY more than it should.
Perhaps a good compromise would be to have gear stats increase on a linear scale, and without too great of a rate of change... say, 5% between tiers.
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