On a serious note, I really think this game could make a come back if they implement serious PVP and space combat upgrade and change payment model to reflect the current trends (B2P with cash shop seems most appropriate). major PVE overhaul is probably impossible due to world/quest design.
Anyway, most of the positive changes would probably not be possible with current team running the game. Whether they appoint new people for redesign or drive the game completely to the ground, it's win for consumers either way.
Anyone who so much as worked as a janitor for this game should be canned.And then barred from ever working on a video game again for life.
C'mon dude, be serious, this is people's livelihood's you're talking about and what issues SWTOR has clearly comes from the decisions made at the top level.
EA and EA keep firing second and third lines to lay a smoke screen in cover of their top brass' massive mismanagement. Nothing new around since most of the bankers and financial "advisors" that plunged the world in this economic depression are still in charge and keep scoring disasters.
Anyone who so much as worked as a janitor for this game should be canned.And then barred from ever working on a video game again for life.
And then people wonder why developers don't take more chances and innovate more.
"Hey Bob, I have a great fresh new idea we can do in our next MMO!!"
"Sorry Steve, I'm not going to be responsible for ruining the entire team's lives if the players don't like it. I'm sticking with what we know they like...WoW type stuff"
Anet took chances, before the game even goes live, it sold over a million.
Minecraft did as well, when it was in BETA it was selling like crazy and both games took chances.
When you take chances, its best to listen to your beta players and game testers, SWTOR did not, all you have to do is look back at some posts of BETA players, whom have come out and stated that they found these bugs and exploits before the game went live, they posted the reports, they told anyone that they could, yet it still went live without any updates to their concerns.
SWTOR was fun, i had lots of fun lvling and pvping at the early levels. But the problems occured once you reach the cap. Not only does it become truly repetitive, they had nothing planned for those that reaches max level at the first month. Every single mechanics they have planned is Grind with the RNG. Then came the constant nerfs, and the well known problems with the population imbalance. They just didn't listen.
There was even a well known player that speed hacks, known throughout the server, yet never was punished until it was too late. Hacks, bugs, and known ability time delays that wasn't the same between factions. It was just bad management.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Have they made a profit on this game? I would think they have. They sold oodles of boxes and implemented the greatest DRM ever devised... a monthy sub fee.
Also, I am all for a NGE of this game. It certainly needs some kind of different gaming experience. They should just turn it into a Dayz survival Star Wars game except instead of zombies they could have robots. *sigh* Such a huge disspaointment ((
Makes you think that how many of the developers that brought us titles like Baldur's Gate and KOTOR are left? EA destroyed yet another development studio, but that did not come as a surprise. The founders and original crew made their millions and have moved to greener pastures.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Truly sad. I really feel for the employees who probably thought, as most of us did, that the game really had legs.
Man does this show you that money does not whitewash game issues. One day I hope we really find out what the devs were striving for and how they missed the mark.
I learned a valuable lesson that themepark MMOs are not for me. I wanted the second coming of SWG and just ignored all the signs that it wasnt going to be that kind of game. And there were many werent there?
I truly wonder how long the game lasts. Probably a long while as F2P. Free is free, after all.
He was spot on, with DAoC, with WAR, and with SWTOR.
Gotta agree man.
There were so many people who said that he shouldn't be believed because he was nothing more than a disgruntled employee. But well, so far he's been right about just about everything...and honestly based on this fact I think his estimate for SWTOR's budget is probably right too.
He also said that Paul Barnett was working on a remake of an older Ultima game...and well, there was just a recent headline about that.
I feel sorry for the those who bet their career on this game. Designers/Developers cried when EA stated they had to nerf the game to release for 2011. It could have been so much more. The main money for this project was spent already, EA stocks were at a high ... why not just refine the game before release? Why release it as a somewhat complete game?
*snip*
I think that's ArenaNet's fault actually. Remember that push in information in the months before TOR released? They had everyone thinking GW2 was only a few months away and EA simply got scared and insisted on releasing well before GW2. Then it got quiet on the GW2 front and it became clear that GW2 was at least 6 months out.
I'm not sure working another 6 months on TOR would have fixed much though. They started out with a bunch of bad decisions and were pretty much doomed from the start. Turning what is the basis for a buggy SPG into an MMO is no easy feat.
Don't feel bad for what is happening. These are people making alot of money that did not listen to anyone but themselves. Sorry but accountability needs to be brought to the mmo genre when things go bad. No more excuses.
I logged to say same thing thanks for sayinf tjhem before me and nice to see there are still reasonable people on mmorpg.com.
Originally posted by Eudaimon
As long as they do the story right, that sounds good...but why an MMO? Why not go for KOTOR 3 or the like?
A mmo brings 120 $ ( yearly payment ) to 180$ ( 12* 15 $ ) per account for one year (these numbers for easy calculation and of course dont count expenses ) .It is why everyone want to be at mmo market .
Originally posted by thexrated
EA destroyed yet another development studio, but that did not come as a surprise. The founders and original crew made their millions and have moved to greener pastures.
Altough i dont like EA it is not the blame first for this disaster. Lucas and Bioware signed deal and planned game before EA bought bioware and made contract . Lucas wanted clone wow and got it but without any clue why wow had been succeeded and bioware showed it was a one trick pony .
Bioware rejected F2P payment (came from ea ) with a overinflated ego ( actually could give time to breath to fix game if swtor had been f2p ) http://www.shacknews.com/article/56292/biowares-star-wars-mmo-to it was a time biware had power not a laughing stock like now .
And EA Louse guy/girl saw truth one year ago from mythic but people in bioware did not see you think ? No ,everyone knew it would collapse probably , just hoped it could survive imho .
Im curios did not anyone warned management much before this EA louse ?
With the exception of EA's CEO himself being replaced rumor, is there any other news on EA's other projects getting cut back, firings and layoffs? Is all the doom in EA related to TOR?
this sucks. hundreds of millions of dollars. thinking about what could have been
And so are the AAA publishers...
Me thinks this is the last mega budget themepark MMO made by the likes of EA, Blizzard, NCSoft, etc. TOO much money tied up for too long to compete in a heavily saturated market. The pot of gold for these folks is creating a game that appeals to the masses.....only that the KIND of game they need to create to appeal to the masses makes for casual gamer fodder....EXPENSIVE casual gamer fodder.
There are just WAY better investments for that kind of money, that require that amount of turnaround time & risk.
Originally posted by Tayah Originally posted by joocheese Instead of firing the workers who only did what they were told by the leadership, it is the leadership (Daniel Erickson) that should be fired. I will cheer for the firing of the leadership (who are ultimately responsible for SWTOR's debacle), but I can't cheer when everyday workers lose their jobs.
That's the sad part, the people that need to be fired are still employed and the people that just did their jobs and had no say in decisions are being let go.
Welcome to Corporate America, home of the golden parachute, This is pretty much how we roll in USA.
It is really sad to see this happen to Bioware cause I actually like their singleplayer games. SWTOR had a huge impact on their financials and that is definitely going to affect their other games overall.
This makes me even more annoyed with MMOs. MMOs are a flawed genre and it is sad to see so many good developers invest so heavily in an MMO then fail. Can't they realise that making an MMO is not worth it. Make an online action RPG without sub and be on the safe side rather than make MMOs all the time.
People just don't like subs and companies make MMOs because of the subs. Then in 1-2 months they have very few subs left.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
It is really sad to see this happen to Bioware cause I actually like their singleplayer games. SWTOR had a huge impact on their financials and that is definitely going to affect their other games overall.
This makes me even more annoyed with MMOs. MMOs are a flawed genre and it is sad to see so many good developers invest so heavily in an MMO then fail. Can't they realise that making an MMO is not worth it. Make an online action RPG without sub and be on the safe side rather than make MMOs all the time.
People just don't like subs and companies make MMOs because of the subs. Then in 1-2 months they have very few subs left.
That ain´t really MMOs faults, if you want to blame something you can blame EA instead.
When you take one studio and opens 3 more new while still keeping the name chanses are that the 3 new studios can't make as good games as the original one even if the same guy is the boss of them all.
Games like Dragon age and TOR have mostly new employees and can´t keep up against Biowares classics or the new game the original studio makes (like ME).
TORs issue in my book is that it really ain´t have enough focus on multiplaying and social stuff which means that i don´t feel to pay a monthly fee for it. The point of a MMO is to play together with your friends and meet new friends, TOR just don´t have enough of that currently since someone decided to focus on the singleplayer game.
And the soloparts of the game are well made but there is a lot more to a MMO. If the game would have been B2P instead like Guildwars I think it would be rather large today, and I think it would have also done a lot better if it put more work into group playing and PvP.
Comments
I blame the casuals.
On a serious note, I really think this game could make a come back if they implement serious PVP and space combat upgrade and change payment model to reflect the current trends (B2P with cash shop seems most appropriate). major PVE overhaul is probably impossible due to world/quest design.
Anyway, most of the positive changes would probably not be possible with current team running the game. Whether they appoint new people for redesign or drive the game completely to the ground, it's win for consumers either way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOI3diW4Fbc&feature=related
or maybe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCKgtLw5KGs&feature=related
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I like this one too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=YJGTeCb1kFk
Road to nowhere...mmhm...maintenance mode.
As it develpos it sure seems that when 1.5 is released SWTOR will run on skeleton crew like WH.
thx for ruin another great company EA i hope you get bankrupt and shut down or worse be bought by nexon
fixed
Anet took chances, before the game even goes live, it sold over a million.
Minecraft did as well, when it was in BETA it was selling like crazy and both games took chances.
When you take chances, its best to listen to your beta players and game testers, SWTOR did not, all you have to do is look back at some posts of BETA players, whom have come out and stated that they found these bugs and exploits before the game went live, they posted the reports, they told anyone that they could, yet it still went live without any updates to their concerns.
SWTOR was fun, i had lots of fun lvling and pvping at the early levels. But the problems occured once you reach the cap. Not only does it become truly repetitive, they had nothing planned for those that reaches max level at the first month. Every single mechanics they have planned is Grind with the RNG. Then came the constant nerfs, and the well known problems with the population imbalance. They just didn't listen.
There was even a well known player that speed hacks, known throughout the server, yet never was punished until it was too late. Hacks, bugs, and known ability time delays that wasn't the same between factions. It was just bad management.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Have they made a profit on this game? I would think they have. They sold oodles of boxes and implemented the greatest DRM ever devised... a monthy sub fee.
Also, I am all for a NGE of this game. It certainly needs some kind of different gaming experience. They should just turn it into a Dayz survival Star Wars game except instead of zombies they could have robots. *sigh* Such a huge disspaointment
((
And you all mocked EA Louse.
He was spot on, with DAoC, with WAR, and with SWTOR.
Makes you think that how many of the developers that brought us titles like Baldur's Gate and KOTOR are left? EA destroyed yet another development studio, but that did not come as a surprise. The founders and original crew made their millions and have moved to greener pastures.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Why are you big dealing this? This is normal procedure for all large software projects.
Ajax
Except when you announce to the world that you absolutely WONT do that.
EA procedure for SWTOR:
"are we still in the red?"
"yes"
"lay off another batch"
it will be continue like this, it will ne on skeleton crew in no time...cough...WHO...cough
haha, the classical "but guys, it happens everytime after a MMO is released" xD
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
Truly sad. I really feel for the employees who probably thought, as most of us did, that the game really had legs.
Man does this show you that money does not whitewash game issues. One day I hope we really find out what the devs were striving for and how they missed the mark.
I learned a valuable lesson that themepark MMOs are not for me. I wanted the second coming of SWG and just ignored all the signs that it wasnt going to be that kind of game. And there were many werent there?
I truly wonder how long the game lasts. Probably a long while as F2P. Free is free, after all.
Gotta agree man.
There were so many people who said that he shouldn't be believed because he was nothing more than a disgruntled employee. But well, so far he's been right about just about everything...and honestly based on this fact I think his estimate for SWTOR's budget is probably right too.
He also said that Paul Barnett was working on a remake of an older Ultima game...and well, there was just a recent headline about that.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I want the names and addresses of the closed beta testers as well... lol.
I think that's ArenaNet's fault actually. Remember that push in information in the months before TOR released? They had everyone thinking GW2 was only a few months away and EA simply got scared and insisted on releasing well before GW2. Then it got quiet on the GW2 front and it became clear that GW2 was at least 6 months out.
I'm not sure working another 6 months on TOR would have fixed much though. They started out with a bunch of bad decisions and were pretty much doomed from the start. Turning what is the basis for a buggy SPG into an MMO is no easy feat.
I logged to say same thing thanks for sayinf tjhem before me and nice to see there are still reasonable people on mmorpg.com.
A mmo brings 120 $ ( yearly payment ) to 180$ ( 12* 15 $ ) per account for one year (these numbers for easy calculation and of course dont count expenses ) .It is why everyone want to be at mmo market .
Altough i dont like EA it is not the blame first for this disaster. Lucas and Bioware signed deal and planned game before EA bought bioware and made contract . Lucas wanted clone wow and got it but without any clue why wow had been succeeded and bioware showed it was a one trick pony .
Bioware rejected F2P payment (came from ea ) with a overinflated ego ( actually could give time to breath to fix game if swtor had been f2p ) http://www.shacknews.com/article/56292/biowares-star-wars-mmo-to it was a time biware had power not a laughing stock like now .
And EA Louse guy/girl saw truth one year ago from mythic but people in bioware did not see you think ? No ,everyone knew it would collapse probably , just hoped it could survive imho .
Im curios did not anyone warned management much before this EA louse ?
With the exception of EA's CEO himself being replaced rumor, is there any other news on EA's other projects getting cut back, firings and layoffs? Is all the doom in EA related to TOR?
And so are the AAA publishers...
Me thinks this is the last mega budget themepark MMO made by the likes of EA, Blizzard, NCSoft, etc. TOO much money tied up for too long to compete in a heavily saturated market. The pot of gold for these folks is creating a game that appeals to the masses.....only that the KIND of game they need to create to appeal to the masses makes for casual gamer fodder....EXPENSIVE casual gamer fodder.
There are just WAY better investments for that kind of money, that require that amount of turnaround time & risk.
That's the sad part, the people that need to be fired are still employed and the people that just did their jobs and had no say in decisions are being let go.
Welcome to Corporate America, home of the golden parachute, This is pretty much how we roll in USA.
Rich people Rule !
Feck me - have I rolled into occupy MMO?It is really sad to see this happen to Bioware cause I actually like their singleplayer games. SWTOR had a huge impact on their financials and that is definitely going to affect their other games overall.
This makes me even more annoyed with MMOs. MMOs are a flawed genre and it is sad to see so many good developers invest so heavily in an MMO then fail. Can't they realise that making an MMO is not worth it. Make an online action RPG without sub and be on the safe side rather than make MMOs all the time.
People just don't like subs and companies make MMOs because of the subs. Then in 1-2 months they have very few subs left.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
That ain´t really MMOs faults, if you want to blame something you can blame EA instead.
When you take one studio and opens 3 more new while still keeping the name chanses are that the 3 new studios can't make as good games as the original one even if the same guy is the boss of them all.
Games like Dragon age and TOR have mostly new employees and can´t keep up against Biowares classics or the new game the original studio makes (like ME).
TORs issue in my book is that it really ain´t have enough focus on multiplaying and social stuff which means that i don´t feel to pay a monthly fee for it. The point of a MMO is to play together with your friends and meet new friends, TOR just don´t have enough of that currently since someone decided to focus on the singleplayer game.
And the soloparts of the game are well made but there is a lot more to a MMO. If the game would have been B2P instead like Guildwars I think it would be rather large today, and I think it would have also done a lot better if it put more work into group playing and PvP.
Swtor seems to be made for a single player game with multiplayer.
But it seems BW / EA got greedy and stamp an MMO on it.
They will be very sucessfull if they make it B2P, they can hit 6 - 7 million players if they do that.
Instead they opt out for P2P.
A lot of game companies wanted to push single players genre to be online all the time now cos it is easier to DRM, DLC and CS.
They will try out everything just like Blizz /Activ with D3 and RMAH.
Anyway imo SWTOR seems to be declining because of James Ohlen, Daniel Erickson and Gabe Amatangelo decisions making.
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language