Btw to all you rose-tinted gogglers... games like WoW and EQ and such which had the "holy trinity" had every class doing more than 1 role (in competent level play) You were never just a healer that just used healing spells, you were never just a dpser that only used damage spells, you were never just a tank that just used tanking abilities. It is not about what you can get away with, cause you can do a lot of stuff that breaks the trinity in WoW, when content is easy, it is about what is most efficient, and in GW2 it is most efficient for example, for an elementalist to spec purely heal support, so that his groupmates can focus more on damage, and get tons of healing.
Btw to all you rose-tinted gogglers... games like WoW and EQ and such which had the "holy trinity" had every class doing more than 1 role (in competent level play) You were never just a healer that just used healing spells, you were never just a dpser that only used damage spells, you were never just a tank that just used tanking abilities. It is not about what you can get away with, cause you can do a lot of stuff that breaks the trinity in WoW, when content is easy, it is about what is most efficient, and in GW2 it is most efficient for example, for an elementalist to spec purely heal support, so that his groupmates can focus more on damage, and get tons of healing.
You have no idea what the holy trinity even means, do you.
If you think gw2 pve is challenging you've already discredited yourself, because any top progression pver from any of the great mmos goes through it like a hot knife through butter.
Evequest was the first mmo to have raids back in 1999 - and i was raiding back in 1999
im still waiting for you to name an example of what boss took weeks for single group to defeat in older mmos
Originally posted by Lord.Bachushttp://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/breaking-the-trinity/They beat part of the ascalon catacombs with a full DPS team.Did they break the trinnity or would this have been easier with a full team of support pecced players?
This is possible in WoW too, as long peeps are well equipped and know what they are doing.
Anyway, the good thing about GW2 is that the game mechanics do not requires the Holy Trinity which means that we no longer have to wait ages for an Healer or a Tank to start a Dungeon.
I LOVE the Trinity, but in casual games like GW2 I don't mind if it is not there, and GW2 does a good job at it.
Untill such time you 'apply' for groups and they say: "sorry, we need a support class"
Everyone can be a support class......................change Weapon and/or stance and voila'
Not sure you played GW2 too long but just to give you an example, an Elementalist using a Staff can be a DPS, an Healer or a Crowd Controller depending what Element they decide to use.
I think the skill system in GW2 is way underrated, I find it pretty smart actually.
You can become any class you want by switching Weapons and Stances, I think this is quite innovative.
People are complaining that GW2 has few skills to choose from, but that's not the case.
You need to learn how to use different weapons/skills dfor different situations
Btw to all you rose-tinted gogglers... games like WoW and EQ and such which had the "holy trinity" had every class doing more than 1 role (in competent level play) You were never just a healer that just used healing spells, you were never just a dpser that only used damage spells, you were never just a tank that just used tanking abilities. It is not about what you can get away with, cause you can do a lot of stuff that breaks the trinity in WoW, when content is easy, it is about what is most efficient, and in GW2 it is most efficient for example, for an elementalist to spec purely heal support, so that his groupmates can focus more on damage, and get tons of healing.
You have no idea what the holy trinity even means, do you.
I think it's more a case of people like you not really knowing what it is. You seem to subjectively define it and twist which degree of definition you want to use based on how it will help glorify gw2.
Tell me, on this mythical healing elementalist, what weapons were you using?
As I have told you before I dont agree. Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2. IF the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and smart and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity yet.
Actually, they aren't there in GW2. Why? Because no class is dedicated to healing or damage mitigation.
Show me the dedicated healer in GW2. I'd love to see it.
You dont need to have anyoine dedicated at a single role for it to be in the game. The roles are shared across the team but the trinity is still in play. What makes a Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2 but just shared accross the team. If the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity. All 3 roles are in GW2, Im a fan and love the game but as a MMOer who has been MMOing 14 years its easy to see the basic elements that make up GW2.
You're confusing 'the trinity' with function.
'The Holy Trinity' specifically refers to the 'tank, dps, healer' model presented in earlier games. Just because a game has heals, damage, and damage mitigation doesn't mean it has a holy trinity.
Hell, battlefield 3 has all of those things, but I don't think anyone in their right mind would say the game is a holy trinity model.
Again, 'the holy trinity' refers specifically to the class mechanics of needing a dedicated tank, healer, and dps in order to complete content. Are there certain aspects of the trinity still in the game, of course there is, but the mechanics are completely different. The lack of threat mechanics, and dedicated healing alone are 2 central pillars of the holy trinity system that are gone.
- Having 3 roles does not mean something has a 'holy trinity' model. It just doesn't. It'd be like saying trine has a holy trinity. Or that planetside has a holy trinity.
If thats how you look at it then WAR broke the Trinity first. Their "healing classes" would do damage and a % of their damage was returned to the team in healing. Unconventional healing and tanking are not new to MMOs. All 3 roles are in the game so the trinity is not dead. The roles are there, you cant deny it. I love GW2 and glad I wont be looking for group but yelling the trinity is dead is a lie. Its just dressed differently.
If thats how you look at it then WAR broke the Trinity first. Their "healing classes" would do damage and a % of their damage was returned to the team in healing. Unconventional healing and tanking are not new to MMOs. All 3 roles are in the game so the trinity is not dead. The roles are there, you cant deny it. I love GW2 and glad I wont be looking for group but yelling the trinity is dead is a lie. Its just dressed differently.
Really, then what dungeons were you able to clear w/ out a healer, tank, and dps?
Btw to all you rose-tinted gogglers... games like WoW and EQ and such which had the "holy trinity" had every class doing more than 1 role (in competent level play) You were never just a healer that just used healing spells, you were never just a dpser that only used damage spells, you were never just a tank that just used tanking abilities. It is not about what you can get away with, cause you can do a lot of stuff that breaks the trinity in WoW, when content is easy, it is about what is most efficient, and in GW2 it is most efficient for example, for an elementalist to spec purely heal support, so that his groupmates can focus more on damage, and get tons of healing.
You have no idea what the holy trinity even means, do you.
I think it's more a case of people like you not really knowing what it is. You seem to subjectively define it and twist which degree of definition you want to use based on how it will help glorify gw2.
No, seriously. Do you even know what the holy trinity is? It refers to a very specific mechanic that most MMOs have been using. I find it kind of hilarious that you, or all people, are accusing others of distorting the definition.
This isn't even a discussion about GW2 anymore. It's a discussion of basic understanding of MMO mechanics.
If thats how you look at it then WAR broke the Trinity first. Their "healing classes" would do damage and a % of their damage was returned to the team in healing. Unconventional healing and tanking are not new to MMOs. All 3 roles are in the game so the trinity is not dead. The roles are there, you cant deny it. I love GW2 and glad I wont be looking for group but yelling the trinity is dead is a lie. Its just dressed differently.
Really, then what dungeons were you able to clear w/ out a healer, tank, and dps?
Tell me the GW2 dungeon you can clear without someone healing, mitigating damage and DPSing? All three roles are in the game. Trinity is not dead.
Btw to all you rose-tinted gogglers... games like WoW and EQ and such which had the "holy trinity" had every class doing more than 1 role (in competent level play) You were never just a healer that just used healing spells, you were never just a dpser that only used damage spells, you were never just a tank that just used tanking abilities. It is not about what you can get away with, cause you can do a lot of stuff that breaks the trinity in WoW, when content is easy, it is about what is most efficient, and in GW2 it is most efficient for example, for an elementalist to spec purely heal support, so that his groupmates can focus more on damage, and get tons of healing.
Actually, it isn't. "tons of healing" isn't something you will see in this game. And here's why that does not, cannot, and will not exist in GW2: Mob damage vs heals incoming. You cannot toe-to-toe a mob and expect to be healed through it for more than about 2 seconds. Player health pools are lower; excepting Death Shroud necros no one has the massively inflated health/armor pools we see in traditional tanks. Even people building solely for dage reduction and health will see that they are not much less quishy than a glass cannon caster.
The actual combat mechanic in GW2 isn't "tank soaks damage, healer heals, everyone does whatever damage they can". It's "Everyone does their best to stay alive by whatever means they have, and keep their teammates alive too. Everyone also contributes damage."
The main difference between the WoW-esque "hard trinity" and GW2's "soft trinity" is that in GW2, EVERYONE is at all times control, support, and damage. Everyone fills all roles at all times, and must make use of the abilities of all three at all times.
No more hearing DPS griping because they didn't get heals, while the heals are busy covering for the tank, because the dedicated tank healer lagged out. Your health is your problem. you MUST avoid getting damaged, and where impossible, you are always the primary person resonsible for making sure that damage is alleviated. in the control portion, your job isn't to spam a threat rotation and hope the heals can keep you alive. Your job is to avoid damage, and at the same time keep the mob away from players with lower health to buy them time to get back up. And as a support, you can actually be contributing to the fight, instead of playing whack-a-mole with your team's health bars. And you will be doing all these things at the same time.
Btw to all you rose-tinted gogglers... games like WoW and EQ and such which had the "holy trinity" had every class doing more than 1 role (in competent level play) You were never just a healer that just used healing spells, you were never just a dpser that only used damage spells, you were never just a tank that just used tanking abilities. It is not about what you can get away with, cause you can do a lot of stuff that breaks the trinity in WoW, when content is easy, it is about what is most efficient, and in GW2 it is most efficient for example, for an elementalist to spec purely heal support, so that his groupmates can focus more on damage, and get tons of healing.
I don't even have to watch the video to counter this tripe. In WoW, all a MAGE could/should/had to do was damage,...this was the same for Rogues and Warlocks. Warriors were 99.9% damage mitigation and only after TBC did their damage specs become viable. This was the same with Priests and where they were mostly healing. The only truely open playstyles were that of the Druid, Shaman, and Palidan. Hybrids had options of tank, healer, or damage.
The thing is, they were still one of THREE gameplay styles that you had to fit into. THere was no way around it. In WoW for a dungeon, you NEEDED a healer, you NEEDED a tank, you NEEDED a minimum amount of damage to complete it. For Guild Wars 2, you just need players. That's it. That's all you need.
As for an Elementalist as "pureply heal support", you know nothing about that class. They require to do damage to do their heals. From the Tridant spell to their base attack.
Btw to all you rose-tinted gogglers... games like WoW and EQ and such which had the "holy trinity" had every class doing more than 1 role (in competent level play) You were never just a healer that just used healing spells, you were never just a dpser that only used damage spells, you were never just a tank that just used tanking abilities. It is not about what you can get away with, cause you can do a lot of stuff that breaks the trinity in WoW, when content is easy, it is about what is most efficient, and in GW2 it is most efficient for example, for an elementalist to spec purely heal support, so that his groupmates can focus more on damage, and get tons of healing.
You have no idea what the holy trinity even means, do you.
I think it's more a case of people like you not really knowing what it is. You seem to subjectively define it and twist which degree of definition you want to use based on how it will help glorify gw2.
Tell me, on this mythical healing elementalist, what weapons were you using?
Mythical? Good lord......... the gap between the good players and the rose gogglers is so huge lol. One of the most straight forward and logical builds is mythical? Are you kidding me? How much denial are you in?
If thats how you look at it then WAR broke the Trinity first. Their "healing classes" would do damage and a % of their damage was returned to the team in healing. Unconventional healing and tanking are not new to MMOs. All 3 roles are in the game so the trinity is not dead. The roles are there, you cant deny it. I love GW2 and glad I wont be looking for group but yelling the trinity is dead is a lie. Its just dressed differently.
Really, then what dungeons were you able to clear w/ out a healer, tank, and dps?
Tell me the GW2 dungeon you can clear without someone healing, mitigating damage and DPSing? All three roles are in the game. Trinity is not dead.
Sorry for the double but had to respond here. You are right. You need people doing each of those things.
But, you don't have any one peson dedicated to any one thing. Everyone heals, everyone mitigates, everyone controls, everyone DPSes.
The trinity in its basest sense of "there are these three roles that every group needs" is not dead. The trinity is the more common sense of "This guy does this role, this guy does this role, those three do that role, and no one is responsible for their own healing/threat other than the healer/tank" is dead.
im still waiting for you to name an example of what boss took weeks for single group to defeat in older mmos
I guarantee you were not a top progression raider in eq, if you are struggling with gw2 content, you were probably more like someone who was getting corpse camped by crushbone orcs.
i have zero gw2 dungeon experience
you are stating how older mmos took weeks to defeat dungeon bosses
name some examples: what games? what encounters? are you referring to ?
Btw to all you rose-tinted gogglers... games like WoW and EQ and such which had the "holy trinity" had every class doing more than 1 role (in competent level play) You were never just a healer that just used healing spells, you were never just a dpser that only used damage spells, you were never just a tank that just used tanking abilities. It is not about what you can get away with, cause you can do a lot of stuff that breaks the trinity in WoW, when content is easy, it is about what is most efficient, and in GW2 it is most efficient for example, for an elementalist to spec purely heal support, so that his groupmates can focus more on damage, and get tons of healing.
You have no idea what the holy trinity even means, do you.
I think it's more a case of people like you not really knowing what it is. You seem to subjectively define it and twist which degree of definition you want to use based on how it will help glorify gw2.
Tell me, on this mythical healing elementalist, what weapons were you using?
Mythical? Good lord......... the gap between the good players and the rose gogglers is so huge lol. One of the most straight forward and logical builds is mythical? Are you kidding me? How much denial are you in?
And yet you fail to provide an answer.
Here let me, this is my healing spec that has my guildies screaming for me to come do sPvP, WvW and dungeons with them.
They love my Guardian healing. Its the topic of many threads and model for many WvW raid set up. It will come down in the end what classes do what best and top end guilds will be looking for people to fit x,y,z spec to file x,y,z roles to get the best results. Sure there are more options and things are dressed differently but in the end GW2 has roles and to be the best people will be pigeon holed into them. Welcome to MMOs where the trinity has never been removed!!!!
Btw to all you rose-tinted gogglers... games like WoW and EQ and such which had the "holy trinity" had every class doing more than 1 role (in competent level play) You were never just a healer that just used healing spells, you were never just a dpser that only used damage spells, you were never just a tank that just used tanking abilities. It is not about what you can get away with, cause you can do a lot of stuff that breaks the trinity in WoW, when content is easy, it is about what is most efficient, and in GW2 it is most efficient for example, for an elementalist to spec purely heal support, so that his groupmates can focus more on damage, and get tons of healing.
You have no idea what the holy trinity even means, do you.
I think it's more a case of people like you not really knowing what it is. You seem to subjectively define it and twist which degree of definition you want to use based on how it will help glorify gw2.
Tell me, on this mythical healing elementalist, what weapons were you using?
This is the most supportive "healing" build I could come up with
If thats how you look at it then WAR broke the Trinity first. Their "healing classes" would do damage and a % of their damage was returned to the team in healing. Unconventional healing and tanking are not new to MMOs. All 3 roles are in the game so the trinity is not dead. The roles are there, you cant deny it. I love GW2 and glad I wont be looking for group but yelling the trinity is dead is a lie. Its just dressed differently.
Really, then what dungeons were you able to clear w/ out a healer, tank, and dps?
Tell me the GW2 dungeon you can clear without someone healing, mitigating damage and DPSing? All three roles are in the game. Trinity is not dead.
The Trinity IS dead. All professions can heal (themselves), mitigate damage and DPS. THere is no specific role for just DPS, and one for healing, and one for mitigation.
Btw to all you rose-tinted gogglers... games like WoW and EQ and such which had the "holy trinity" had every class doing more than 1 role (in competent level play) You were never just a healer that just used healing spells, you were never just a dpser that only used damage spells, you were never just a tank that just used tanking abilities. It is not about what you can get away with, cause you can do a lot of stuff that breaks the trinity in WoW, when content is easy, it is about what is most efficient, and in GW2 it is most efficient for example, for an elementalist to spec purely heal support, so that his groupmates can focus more on damage, and get tons of healing.
You have no idea what the holy trinity even means, do you.
I think it's more a case of people like you not really knowing what it is. You seem to subjectively define it and twist which degree of definition you want to use based on how it will help glorify gw2.
Tell me, on this mythical healing elementalist, what weapons were you using?
Mythical? Good lord......... the gap between the good players and the rose gogglers is so huge lol. One of the most straight forward and logical builds is mythical? Are you kidding me? How much denial are you in?
And yet you fail to provide an answer.
Here let me, this is my healing spec that has my guildies screaming for me to come do sPvP, WvW and dungeons with them.
They love my Guardian healing. Its the topic of many threads and model for many WvW raid set up. It will come down in the end what classes do what best and top end guilds will be looking for people to fit x,y,z spec to file x,y,z roles to get the best results. Sure there are more options and things are dressed differently but in the end GW2 has roles and to be the best people will be pigeon holed into them. Welcome to MMOs where the trinity has never been removed!!!!
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Originally posted by Nadia Originally posted by RobertDinh If you think gw2 pve is challenging you've already discredited yourself, because any top progression pver from any of the great mmos goes through it like a hot knife through butter.
Evequest was the first mmo to have raids back in 1999 - and i was raiding back in 1999
im still waiting for you to name an example of what boss took weeks for single group to defeat in older mmos
I guarantee you were not a top progression raider in eq, if you are struggling with gw2 content, you were probably more like someone who was getting corpse camped by crushbone orcs.
Logged in just to say that was a great put down. Had me chuckling. Anyway, back to flaming each other!
If thats how you look at it then WAR broke the Trinity first. Their "healing classes" would do damage and a % of their damage was returned to the team in healing. Unconventional healing and tanking are not new to MMOs. All 3 roles are in the game so the trinity is not dead. The roles are there, you cant deny it. I love GW2 and glad I wont be looking for group but yelling the trinity is dead is a lie. Its just dressed differently.
Really, then what dungeons were you able to clear w/ out a healer, tank, and dps?
Tell me the GW2 dungeon you can clear without someone healing, mitigating damage and DPSing? All three roles are in the game. Trinity is not dead.
Sorry for the double but had to respond here. You are right. You need people doing each of those things.
But, you don't have any one peson dedicated to any one thing. Everyone heals, everyone mitigates, everyone controls, everyone DPSes.
The trinity in its basest sense of "there are these three roles that every group needs" is not dead. The trinity is the more common sense of "This guy does this role, this guy does this role, those three do that role, and no one is responsible for their own healing/threat other than the healer/tank" is dead.
But it is, though. And you just explained it.
"You don't have one person dedicated to any one thing."
That, in a nutshell, is the trinity model. You can try and play GW2 like it is a trinity model, absolutely. You have the freedom to do that. But the game isn't based around it. You aren't forced to go in with a healer, tank, and dps. The video illustrates this.
If you want to play the game like a tank, you can, but it'll be quite a bit different from a trinity-model tank. The combat is a lot more chaotic. Same deal w/ the healer. You can just choose to only focus on the healing abilities of a certain class, but it'll function a lot differently, and you are also severely gimping your class in the process. It'd be like taking a class that has 2 stuns, and 25 abilities, and then only using those 2 stuns because it makes you a 'CC class'.
In almost every other MMO I've played, there is the emphasis on needing a tank, healer, and dps to do the harder content. That is THE key difference. Is it the first game to do this? No, you have eve, secondlife, spellbourn (which is cancelled), wizardry, etc. etc. But most fantasy MMOs don't do this.
You probably weren't at the top of progression then eh? In my era our dungeons were part of the persistent world.
name a boss from your era that took weeks for a single group to take down
Antharas Lineage 2, it took around 1.5 years for the first people ( namely the clan I was in ) to bring down the boss in North America for the first time
They love my Guardian healing. Its the topic of many threads and model for many WvW raid set up. It will come down in the end what classes do what best and top end guilds will be looking for people to fit x,y,z spec to file x,y,z roles to get the best results. Sure there are more options and things are dressed differently but in the end GW2 has roles and to be the best people will be pigeon holed into them. Welcome to MMOs where the trinity has never been removed!!!!
I remember running a similar spec on my Guardian when I tried Ascalonian Catacombs with some PUGs. They were happy to see a Guardian that could heal and mitigate damage at the same time since they were 2 thieves and 2 fire-specced elementalists. We failed miserably at the very first area because one person "healing" isn't nearly enough to help the team. Your "team" needs to learn how to avoid damage and how to move and play properly, just mashing buttons that do damage while expecting one of your team-mates to heal isn't going to allow you to finish any dungeon in the game. It's nothing like having a pro-healer in a trinity MMO. A group WITHOUT a fully heal-specced character can do much better than a group with a full-heal specced character, if they know how to play their profs. And this is why "the trinity is dead"
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Comments
Link down for me as well
Btw to all you rose-tinted gogglers... games like WoW and EQ and such which had the "holy trinity" had every class doing more than 1 role (in competent level play) You were never just a healer that just used healing spells, you were never just a dpser that only used damage spells, you were never just a tank that just used tanking abilities. It is not about what you can get away with, cause you can do a lot of stuff that breaks the trinity in WoW, when content is easy, it is about what is most efficient, and in GW2 it is most efficient for example, for an elementalist to spec purely heal support, so that his groupmates can focus more on damage, and get tons of healing.
You have no idea what the holy trinity even means, do you.
Evequest was the first mmo to have raids back in 1999 - and i was raiding back in 1999
im still waiting for you to name an example of what boss took weeks for single group to defeat in older mmos
EQ2 fan sites
Everyone can be a support class......................change Weapon and/or stance and voila'
Not sure you played GW2 too long but just to give you an example, an Elementalist using a Staff can be a DPS, an Healer or a Crowd Controller depending what Element they decide to use.
I think the skill system in GW2 is way underrated, I find it pretty smart actually.
You can become any class you want by switching Weapons and Stances, I think this is quite innovative.
People are complaining that GW2 has few skills to choose from, but that's not the case.
You need to learn how to use different weapons/skills dfor different situations
Tell me, on this mythical healing elementalist, what weapons were you using?
Oderint, dum metuant.
If thats how you look at it then WAR broke the Trinity first. Their "healing classes" would do damage and a % of their damage was returned to the team in healing. Unconventional healing and tanking are not new to MMOs. All 3 roles are in the game so the trinity is not dead. The roles are there, you cant deny it. I love GW2 and glad I wont be looking for group but yelling the trinity is dead is a lie. Its just dressed differently.
Really, then what dungeons were you able to clear w/ out a healer, tank, and dps?
No, seriously. Do you even know what the holy trinity is? It refers to a very specific mechanic that most MMOs have been using. I find it kind of hilarious that you, or all people, are accusing others of distorting the definition.
This isn't even a discussion about GW2 anymore. It's a discussion of basic understanding of MMO mechanics.
Alot of ridiculous posts.
Holy trinity = STATIC ROLES.
You can debate that will be roles but they won't be static, this gameplay won't be nothing like any game with the trinity.
Tell me the GW2 dungeon you can clear without someone healing, mitigating damage and DPSing? All three roles are in the game. Trinity is not dead.
Actually, it isn't. "tons of healing" isn't something you will see in this game. And here's why that does not, cannot, and will not exist in GW2: Mob damage vs heals incoming. You cannot toe-to-toe a mob and expect to be healed through it for more than about 2 seconds. Player health pools are lower; excepting Death Shroud necros no one has the massively inflated health/armor pools we see in traditional tanks. Even people building solely for dage reduction and health will see that they are not much less quishy than a glass cannon caster.
The actual combat mechanic in GW2 isn't "tank soaks damage, healer heals, everyone does whatever damage they can". It's "Everyone does their best to stay alive by whatever means they have, and keep their teammates alive too. Everyone also contributes damage."
The main difference between the WoW-esque "hard trinity" and GW2's "soft trinity" is that in GW2, EVERYONE is at all times control, support, and damage. Everyone fills all roles at all times, and must make use of the abilities of all three at all times.
No more hearing DPS griping because they didn't get heals, while the heals are busy covering for the tank, because the dedicated tank healer lagged out. Your health is your problem. you MUST avoid getting damaged, and where impossible, you are always the primary person resonsible for making sure that damage is alleviated. in the control portion, your job isn't to spam a threat rotation and hope the heals can keep you alive. Your job is to avoid damage, and at the same time keep the mob away from players with lower health to buy them time to get back up. And as a support, you can actually be contributing to the fight, instead of playing whack-a-mole with your team's health bars. And you will be doing all these things at the same time.
I don't even have to watch the video to counter this tripe. In WoW, all a MAGE could/should/had to do was damage,...this was the same for Rogues and Warlocks. Warriors were 99.9% damage mitigation and only after TBC did their damage specs become viable. This was the same with Priests and where they were mostly healing. The only truely open playstyles were that of the Druid, Shaman, and Palidan. Hybrids had options of tank, healer, or damage.
The thing is, they were still one of THREE gameplay styles that you had to fit into. THere was no way around it. In WoW for a dungeon, you NEEDED a healer, you NEEDED a tank, you NEEDED a minimum amount of damage to complete it. For Guild Wars 2, you just need players. That's it. That's all you need.
As for an Elementalist as "pureply heal support", you know nothing about that class. They require to do damage to do their heals. From the Tridant spell to their base attack.
And yet you fail to provide an answer.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Sorry for the double but had to respond here. You are right. You need people doing each of those things.
But, you don't have any one peson dedicated to any one thing. Everyone heals, everyone mitigates, everyone controls, everyone DPSes.
The trinity in its basest sense of "there are these three roles that every group needs" is not dead. The trinity is the more common sense of "This guy does this role, this guy does this role, those three do that role, and no one is responsible for their own healing/threat other than the healer/tank" is dead.
i have zero gw2 dungeon experience
you are stating how older mmos took weeks to defeat dungeon bosses
name some examples: what games? what encounters? are you referring to ?
you rather insult people than back-up your claims
EQ2 fan sites
Here let me, this is my healing spec that has my guildies screaming for me to come do sPvP, WvW and dungeons with them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wsbavY2Q2M&feature=plcp
http://www.gw2builds.org/view/511159/hot_team_defence_mace_shield_spec_w_video
They love my Guardian healing. Its the topic of many threads and model for many WvW raid set up. It will come down in the end what classes do what best and top end guilds will be looking for people to fit x,y,z spec to file x,y,z roles to get the best results. Sure there are more options and things are dressed differently but in the end GW2 has roles and to be the best people will be pigeon holed into them. Welcome to MMOs where the trinity has never been removed!!!!
This is the most supportive "healing" build I could come up with
Staff Elementalist
I'd be interested to see how his differs
The Trinity IS dead. All professions can heal (themselves), mitigate damage and DPS. THere is no specific role for just DPS, and one for healing, and one for mitigation.
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Oderint, dum metuant.
that build creater that nanfoodle used is outdated anyway I think. Use the one in my post, it is the most up to date with the trait changes and such
Evequest was the first mmo to have raids back in 1999 - and i was raiding back in 1999
im still waiting for you to name an example of what boss took weeks for single group to defeat in older mmos
I guarantee you were not a top progression raider in eq, if you are struggling with gw2 content, you were probably more like someone who was getting corpse camped by crushbone orcs.
Logged in just to say that was a great put down. Had me chuckling.But it is, though. And you just explained it.
"You don't have one person dedicated to any one thing."
That, in a nutshell, is the trinity model. You can try and play GW2 like it is a trinity model, absolutely. You have the freedom to do that. But the game isn't based around it. You aren't forced to go in with a healer, tank, and dps. The video illustrates this.
If you want to play the game like a tank, you can, but it'll be quite a bit different from a trinity-model tank. The combat is a lot more chaotic. Same deal w/ the healer. You can just choose to only focus on the healing abilities of a certain class, but it'll function a lot differently, and you are also severely gimping your class in the process. It'd be like taking a class that has 2 stuns, and 25 abilities, and then only using those 2 stuns because it makes you a 'CC class'.
In almost every other MMO I've played, there is the emphasis on needing a tank, healer, and dps to do the harder content. That is THE key difference. Is it the first game to do this? No, you have eve, secondlife, spellbourn (which is cancelled), wizardry, etc. etc. But most fantasy MMOs don't do this.
Antharas Lineage 2, it took around 1.5 years for the first people ( namely the clan I was in ) to bring down the boss in North America for the first time
I remember running a similar spec on my Guardian when I tried Ascalonian Catacombs with some PUGs. They were happy to see a Guardian that could heal and mitigate damage at the same time since they were 2 thieves and 2 fire-specced elementalists. We failed miserably at the very first area because one person "healing" isn't nearly enough to help the team. Your "team" needs to learn how to avoid damage and how to move and play properly, just mashing buttons that do damage while expecting one of your team-mates to heal isn't going to allow you to finish any dungeon in the game. It's nothing like having a pro-healer in a trinity MMO. A group WITHOUT a fully heal-specced character can do much better than a group with a full-heal specced character, if they know how to play their profs. And this is why "the trinity is dead"
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums