Would people have continued playing without the sub?
I am sure some of them would - maybe on an occasional basis.
I cannot help feel that EA are clutching at straws however. They released a solid single player game with some "co-op/mmo" tyoe features. And those features were deemed to be "not worth the sub".
And the big problem imo is that by releasing the game as an mmo they lost single player sales. Did they get more $$ from the monthly subs they managed? Maybe EA believe they did.
Originally posted by Zylaxx Originally posted by jpnzUmm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'.That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion.So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.
As much as I dont like subscriptions the $15 sub fee is hardly the reason people left. I cant attest to why most left but if I was to hazzard a guess it would be to a lack of content.
I left because the game was bland, boring, uninspiring and was lacking features that even most F2P MMO's release with. Plus it takes Bioware like 6 months to even implement and develop content. The lack of content to to do at endgame was just icing on the cake.
EA has exit interviews for people who ended their subscriptions. Unless people just out and out lied*, then 40% of the people who left would have continued playing if there was no sub fee or if the game was F2P. It's kind of a no brainer though...will more people play a free game or a box price + subscription game?
What EA is banking on is that a lot of people will try the game with no barrier to entry. That's what they need. They're not going to get a long term commitment from people with the subscription...people will want to get their money's worth as quickly as possible and move on. EA needs a lot of people to try the game out, so they can find enough of the people who will like the game and will pay money for the extras.
* EA could have lied too. I don't think they did.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by jpnzUmm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'.That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion.So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.
As much as I dont like subscriptions the $15 sub fee is hardly the reason people left. I cant attest to why most left but if I was to hazzard a guess it would be to a lack of content.
I left because the game was bland, boring, uninspiring and was lacking features that even most F2P MMO's release with. Plus it takes Bioware like 6 months to even implement and develop content. The lack of content to to do at endgame was just icing on the cake.
EA has exit interviews for people who ended their subscriptions. Unless people just out and out lied*, then 40% of the people who left would have continued playing if there was no sub fee or if the game was F2P. It's kind of a no brainer though...will more people play a free game or a box price + subscription game?
What EA is banking on is that a lot of people will try the game with no barrier to entry. That's what they need. They're not going to get a long term commitment from people with the subscription...people will want to get their money's worth as quickly as possible and move on. EA needs a lot of people to try the game out, so they can find enough of the people who will like the game and will pay money for the extras.
* EA could have lied too. I don't think they did.
Well the 40% saying I won't coninue because it isn't worth paying for might be confused with I won't play because this game isn't worth my time. Just my 2 cents.
It depends largely on how the exit poll was conducted. Further information would be nice.
Originally posted by Karteli Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by ZylaxxOriginally posted by jpnzUmm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'.That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion.So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.
As much as I dont like subscriptions the $15 sub fee is hardly the reason people left. I cant attest to why most left but if I was to hazzard a guess it would be to a lack of content.I left because the game was bland, boring, uninspiring and was lacking features that even most F2P MMO's release with. Plus it takes Bioware like 6 months to even implement and develop content. The lack of content to to do at endgame was just icing on the cake. EA has exit interviews for people who ended their subscriptions. Unless people just out and out lied*, then 40% of the people who left would have continued playing if there was no sub fee or if the game was F2P. It's kind of a no brainer though...will more people play a free game or a box price + subscription game? What EA is banking on is that a lot of people will try the game with no barrier to entry. That's what they need. They're not going to get a long term commitment from people with the subscription...people will want to get their money's worth as quickly as possible and move on. EA needs a lot of people to try the game out, so they can find enough of the people who will like the game and will pay money for the extras. * EA could have lied too. I don't think they did.Well the 40% saying I won't coninue because it isn't worth paying for might be confused with I won't play because this game isn't worth my time. Just my 2 cents.
It depends largely on how the exit poll was conducted. Further information would be nice.
We won't see any further information on this. What we have is what we have.
I took the exit poll, and one of the options for reasons to quit was "Subscription fee". It seemed pretty clear to me. I think I selected "Other". I can't think of a reason for someone to select "Subscription fee" as a reason to quit unless that was the most important reason to the person taking the poll.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I know, right? Having said/repeated it many times, my favorite is still Georg's OTHER foot in mouth moment when he asked what kind of Huttball games we were playing where we never left combat. I'd swear that was his absolute LAST devpost when he saw the veritable shitstorm of derisiveness it set off in the community.
Originally posted by minttunator Yeah, they may be going free to play, but it's not going to become a successful game as long as it's not fun to play.
To be fair, there are areas that are better than others. There are aspects of the game that are either good or better than you'd expect. On the whole though, you're right.
Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'.
That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion.
So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.
How do people know that is the number one reason? What about the breakdown of the 60%. Where is the facts?
Cause EA/BW said so in their financial call?
Course you could be someone who thinks big corporations lie in their financial call though; in which case, LOL.
I assume (and could totally be wrong, since I didn't play and subsequently cancel SW) that this data was obtained during an exit survey on the website's cancel sub screen, in which case many players simply take that as an opportunity to protest paying subscription fees for an MMO regardless of their actual reason(s) for unsubbing--and there almost always is way more than one contributing factor in the decision to leave a game.
Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'.
That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion.
So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.
How do people know that is the number one reason? What about the breakdown of the 60%. Where is the facts?
Cause EA/BW said so in their financial call?
Course you could be someone who thinks big corporations lie in their financial call though; in which case, LOL.
I assume (and could totally be wrong, since I didn't play and subsequently cancel SW) that this data was obtained during an exit survey on the website's cancel sub screen, in which case many players simply take that as an opportunity to protest paying subscription fees for an MMO regardless of their actual reason(s) for unsubbing--and there almost always is way more than one contributing factor in the decision to leave a game.
Quite literally the entire point of this debate, yes.
Originally posted by jpnz Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'.That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion.So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.
And the # 1 reason someone would say it's the fee, is <drum roll> because they don't think the product is worth the fee because of XYZ.
Nope, seems to me that they still haven't fixed the biggest factor on this game's downfall.. incompetancy in the decision makers and lack of MMO experienced staff with a voice. This game is a quality single player game with good coop content and acceptable multiplayer.. an MMO it is NOT. While I don't think it's the real reason for people leaving, it makes sense that people don't think it's worth of the cost. However, if BW/EA think they're going to solve the game's problems by going f2p, they're dumber than even I thought and my opinion of them is about as low as it gets.
More players will come initially for sure but they'll play the story and then quit. Just getting numbers up isn't going to solve their problems, they need to keep the numbers up and get people spending on the game however I don't see why anyone would want to invest a single penny in such a souless universe. Worse still, by announcing f2p, they're just going to get even lower sub numbers. I was subbed to this game from launch and slowly enjoying the stories of each classes and enjoying myself but after the f2p announcement and on the back of GW2 and the Pandas coming, I don't see the point staying subbed when the only things worth playing the game for will be free soon.
Honestly, I won't go back to this game even if it's 100% free with no item store or any such thing. I wouldn't go back to play this game if they paid me, unless it was enough to replace my current job and offset the boredom/headaches/etc. So no. The sub cost was not the issue for me. The game was not worth any sub cost for me. The game itself was the problem.
ok...here is the reason why 40% of the player base took off.
1) the last content patch came out with 1.2 and that was sometime in April. 1.3 doesn't count because 1.3 was just quality of life systems such as group finder.
2) that was about 4 months ago without any new content. again at this point we had tons of 50s with nothing really to do.
denova the 3rd raid that was put in with 1.2 was on farm for a lot of guilds.
3) so players took off. not so much that they had to pay 15 a month, but they had to pay 15 a month with nothing to do.
Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'.
That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion.
So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.
No if they game was good i would have been willing to pay a sub fee no problem at all... in fact I think its how MMORPGs should be paid for.. no silly cash shops..
SWTOR is just not a good mmorpg and its as simple as that, they would have been better off making it a SP game with co-op options..
Originally posted by Vaultar Originally posted by jpnzUmm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'.That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion.So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.
Even with this game going f2p, I simply won't touch it as it has too much old school mmo elements to it besides the story. ? What's old school about SWTOR? Just about everything about SWTOR is what's wrong with modern MMO's today, nothing oldschool from what I've seen.
Originally posted by cheyane Sub is a very strong reason for people not buying or staying so yes they have solved the number one reason.
I think you're right, but I don't think their goal is necessarily to get those people back. I think their goal is to get a lot of people into the game, even if those people aren't going to stick it out for a long period of time. F2P is a good way to do that.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by cheyane Sub is a very strong reason for people not buying or staying so yes they have solved the number one reason.
It's been proven before, people are willing to pay sub for good games, people are unwilling to pay sub for games that are average or dull or shallow, and SWTOR falls with the latter. I paid sub for other games and didn't complain, in SWTOR when I had enough, I cancelled and I'm not even sure I'll even bother playing when it goes F2P after reading the restrictions F2P players get.
The amount of people willing or unwilling to sub speaks volume about the game.
Originally posted by cheyane Sub is a very strong reason for people not buying or staying so yes they have solved the number one reason.
A sub that is backed by something is not usually dumped that easily. Even for low income users $15 a month just isn't a gigantic amount of money. If SWTOR was able to keep people engaged and had a deep, varied world this thread wouldn't exist.
They went F2P because they had to. They had to because they knew they couldn't bring the game up to the standard needed by most of the players.
I cannot speak for the masses, only can say what my mates and I have discussed. Each of us bought and paid to play the game until recently. Changing to F2P has not charged our position about not playing this game. The price was not our issue, the gameplay and lack of anything outside craft/combat was. These are not getting addressed per what has been announced. F2p restrictions also seem rather harsh, and I doubt players who played the game with a SUB will be happy playing the free version, meaning you have to pay for what you once had, and you dont like it... etc...
I see this move on EA/Bioware's part to attact new players, I really cannot fathom too many of the original players returning until the gameplay and content are improved.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Originally posted by Rednecksith Let's see, EAware are still incompetent, condescending morons, and Operatives are still nerfed to PVE and PVP uselessness. So no, they haven't fixed the reasons I left at least.
Sorry Opertives are very strong in PVP they are just awesome in the new warzone, I hate being ganked solo by one you just don't know how to play it right I guess.
Comments
Would people have continued playing without the sub?
I am sure some of them would - maybe on an occasional basis.
I cannot help feel that EA are clutching at straws however. They released a solid single player game with some "co-op/mmo" tyoe features. And those features were deemed to be "not worth the sub".
And the big problem imo is that by releasing the game as an mmo they lost single player sales. Did they get more $$ from the monthly subs they managed? Maybe EA believe they did.
And why did the other 60% leave?
Teams of stun locking operatives.
NO WAI!
BTW, thats my favorite from BW
I left because the game was bland, boring, uninspiring and was lacking features that even most F2P MMO's release with. Plus it takes Bioware like 6 months to even implement and develop content. The lack of content to to do at endgame was just icing on the cake.
EA has exit interviews for people who ended their subscriptions. Unless people just out and out lied*, then 40% of the people who left would have continued playing if there was no sub fee or if the game was F2P. It's kind of a no brainer though...will more people play a free game or a box price + subscription game?
What EA is banking on is that a lot of people will try the game with no barrier to entry. That's what they need. They're not going to get a long term commitment from people with the subscription...people will want to get their money's worth as quickly as possible and move on. EA needs a lot of people to try the game out, so they can find enough of the people who will like the game and will pay money for the extras.
* EA could have lied too. I don't think they did.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Well the 40% saying I won't coninue because it isn't worth paying for might be confused with I won't play because this game isn't worth my time. Just my 2 cents.
It depends largely on how the exit poll was conducted. Further information would be nice.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
EA has exit interviews for people who ended their subscriptions. Unless people just out and out lied*, then 40% of the people who left would have continued playing if there was no sub fee or if the game was F2P. It's kind of a no brainer though...will more people play a free game or a box price + subscription game? What EA is banking on is that a lot of people will try the game with no barrier to entry. That's what they need. They're not going to get a long term commitment from people with the subscription...people will want to get their money's worth as quickly as possible and move on. EA needs a lot of people to try the game out, so they can find enough of the people who will like the game and will pay money for the extras. * EA could have lied too. I don't think they did.
Well the 40% saying I won't coninue because it isn't worth paying for might be confused with I won't play because this game isn't worth my time. Just my 2 cents.
It depends largely on how the exit poll was conducted. Further information would be nice.
We won't see any further information on this. What we have is what we have.
I took the exit poll, and one of the options for reasons to quit was "Subscription fee". It seemed pretty clear to me. I think I selected "Other". I can't think of a reason for someone to select "Subscription fee" as a reason to quit unless that was the most important reason to the person taking the poll.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I know, right? Having said/repeated it many times, my favorite is still Georg's OTHER foot in mouth moment when he asked what kind of Huttball games we were playing where we never left combat. I'd swear that was his absolute LAST devpost when he saw the veritable shitstorm of derisiveness it set off in the community.
To be fair, there are areas that are better than others. There are aspects of the game that are either good or better than you'd expect. On the whole though, you're right.
I assume (and could totally be wrong, since I didn't play and subsequently cancel SW) that this data was obtained during an exit survey on the website's cancel sub screen, in which case many players simply take that as an opportunity to protest paying subscription fees for an MMO regardless of their actual reason(s) for unsubbing--and there almost always is way more than one contributing factor in the decision to leave a game.
Quite literally the entire point of this debate, yes.
And the # 1 reason someone would say it's the fee, is <drum roll> because they don't think the product is worth the fee because of XYZ.
Nope, seems to me that they still haven't fixed the biggest factor on this game's downfall.. incompetancy in the decision makers and lack of MMO experienced staff with a voice. This game is a quality single player game with good coop content and acceptable multiplayer.. an MMO it is NOT. While I don't think it's the real reason for people leaving, it makes sense that people don't think it's worth of the cost. However, if BW/EA think they're going to solve the game's problems by going f2p, they're dumber than even I thought and my opinion of them is about as low as it gets.
More players will come initially for sure but they'll play the story and then quit. Just getting numbers up isn't going to solve their problems, they need to keep the numbers up and get people spending on the game however I don't see why anyone would want to invest a single penny in such a souless universe. Worse still, by announcing f2p, they're just going to get even lower sub numbers. I was subbed to this game from launch and slowly enjoying the stories of each classes and enjoying myself but after the f2p announcement and on the back of GW2 and the Pandas coming, I don't see the point staying subbed when the only things worth playing the game for will be free soon.
Even with this game going f2p, I simply won't touch it as it has too much old school mmo elements to it besides the story.
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.
ok...here is the reason why 40% of the player base took off.
1) the last content patch came out with 1.2 and that was sometime in April. 1.3 doesn't count because 1.3 was just quality of life systems such as group finder.
2) that was about 4 months ago without any new content. again at this point we had tons of 50s with nothing really to do.
denova the 3rd raid that was put in with 1.2 was on farm for a lot of guilds.
3) so players took off. not so much that they had to pay 15 a month, but they had to pay 15 a month with nothing to do.
No if they game was good i would have been willing to pay a sub fee no problem at all... in fact I think its how MMORPGs should be paid for.. no silly cash shops..
SWTOR is just not a good mmorpg and its as simple as that, they would have been better off making it a SP game with co-op options..
now to address this post about fixing why players have left well lets look at this with a scope shall we?
1) bio arts had 2 rounds of layoffs. this means less staff.
2) with the announcement of free to play jeff hickman now the games new executive producer addressed the community
the reasons why free to play was coming saying 40% left due to the monthly fee and players would come back if it was free.
3) in the same post he also stated that they would be pushing content updates every 6 weeks.
4) so that's really the question we would like to know. can they do more with less?
only time will tell. but given their past track record i would think every 6 weeks would be a very tough thing to do.
5) again only time will tell.
? What's old school about SWTOR? Just about everything about SWTOR is what's wrong with modern MMO's today, nothing oldschool from what I've seen.
I think you're right, but I don't think their goal is necessarily to get those people back. I think their goal is to get a lot of people into the game, even if those people aren't going to stick it out for a long period of time. F2P is a good way to do that.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The amount of people willing or unwilling to sub speaks volume about the game.
A sub that is backed by something is not usually dumped that easily. Even for low income users $15 a month just isn't a gigantic amount of money. If SWTOR was able to keep people engaged and had a deep, varied world this thread wouldn't exist.
They went F2P because they had to. They had to because they knew they couldn't bring the game up to the standard needed by most of the players.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I cannot speak for the masses, only can say what my mates and I have discussed. Each of us bought and paid to play the game until recently. Changing to F2P has not charged our position about not playing this game. The price was not our issue, the gameplay and lack of anything outside craft/combat was. These are not getting addressed per what has been announced. F2p restrictions also seem rather harsh, and I doubt players who played the game with a SUB will be happy playing the free version, meaning you have to pay for what you once had, and you dont like it... etc...
I see this move on EA/Bioware's part to attact new players, I really cannot fathom too many of the original players returning until the gameplay and content are improved.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Sorry Opertives are very strong in PVP they are just awesome in the new warzone, I hate being ganked solo by one you just don't know how to play it right I guess.
Ajax