You can't really say practically all korean MMOs suck just because it doesn't suit the western MMOers tastes'.
Most MMOs are usually similar to the trend of market they make most of their sales income from.
This means that korean MMOs usually have that same ol grind, unrestricted PvP and etc, because korean people generally play at such a competitve level. <---- Alittle too excessive-_-;;
But this doesn't necessarily mean that MMOs that actually would suit the Western MMO market don't exist in korea. Games such as TalesWeaver offer a unique quest system where you follow chapters like a traditional RPG. But games as these are never released states-side. Either because they're insufficient in funds, or they didn't get enough success in the asian market, to want to release it in the Western Market.
Well, in case of TalesWeaver...I really don't have a clue why softmax never released it states-side, but this goes for "War of Genesis" series as well. Anyone who is an import gamer would definitely know War of Genesis or Rhapsody of Zehpyr. I guess Softmax didn't want to bother with translating the games for them to be released Sates-Side. It's a real pity, and I am positive that any import gamer who's played either the japanese or the korean versions, know that WoG series is practically known as one of the best Strat-RPG series.
This is one problem that is also a complaint but something that you really can't do about. Most games that are made in the asian market, if they don't succeed in the Asian market don't get enough support to be released states-side. Or sometimes some companies just don't bother.
But this is the same states-side as well. You'll probably never see Star Wars Galaxies in the korean market period. -_-;;
There's another gap between Western and Asian MMO market. It's the "general" (I'm not saying there aren't many hard-core players in NA, just not as many.) hard-core-ness of the players. How much of their time they consume, how much effort they put into, and etc. People still generally think you don't have a social life if you play MMOs -_-;; in the US. In korea, guild members even have dinner&drinking meetings on ocassions.
This different social concept of the market in the East and West make it different for games of different formats to succeed in both sides of the ocean.
At this years TGS2005 for example, SquareEnix wanted to find a korean publisher for "FantasyEarth". But no korean oniline games distributors wanted to take in the offer as of yet. The reason being is that, eventhough the game has the SquareEnix title to it, it doesn't offer enough Eastern qualities of MMOs to succeed in korea. Few publishers showed interest in licencing FantasyEarth, but the response they gave to SquareEnix was to refine the game for an asian market, and they may publish it in the near future, but not at this point where the game would temporarily live by the developer's name only.
The fact is, korean game developers aren't going to bother spending so much money on making games succeed on boths sides of the ocean. "WoW" is the only MMO that has had surprising success in both continents. Most companies don't seem to have the need to adjust to this concept because they make enough money alone in their countries. From what is reported, most companies after releasing an MMO has basically succeeded in making a good profit if they at least have 30% of Open-Beta testers as subscribers.
So even if korean MMOs in general always get bad reputations, the game developers could care less, since they are already making more money by just having foreign publishers.
Just look at things this way. L2 in Asia is basically bigger than WoW (except korea now). In japan it's bigger, in taiwan it's bigger. From these two alone NCsoft makes load of money. You kinda have to wonder why the NA service for L2 was so~ crappy. When they make so much money on the other side of the ocean. They really couldn't care less about some 140k-ish users in NA L2. They were already making freebie money off NA users, they just needed to focus on the regions where the game was actually popular.
Or for another example, look at RFOnline right now. CCR is nowhere as big as NCsoft, but they're making hell lot of money. CCR only has to focus on service in korea. It just gives publishers the right to release the games other places. It already has thousands of users in Taiwan, soon to be in japan, coming soon in Philipines, and going to be Q1 of 2006 for UK/US. CCR is getting millions for licencing fees+certain percentage in sharing profits. CCR just made the game for korea. Who wouldn've thought they'd get RF to be this successful? Noneone I bet. And even if this game gets trashed talked in near future, let it be the grind or the bad services, CCR wouldn't give a damn. Why? cause they only gave publishing rights for millions in profit+even if the game doesn't attract too many players, CCR is still going to get certain percentage in sharing profits.
The harsh truth is that, this is how the markets are set up. The developers could care less if their games do well on the other side of the ocean. Usually game companies focus on success in Asian market alone or Western Market alone, but not both at once. Even if their games get released on the other side of the ocean the developers could care less because they are not losing money, as long as at home it's doing well.
There are about 100x more Online related games in korea than the US. I am seriously talking tons. And out of those tons, some may even be liked by western gamers, but those are the ones korean people don't like. So without any success in korea you'll never see any of these korean games. But this appllies vice-versa, so there's no real point in complaining.
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month? Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools? MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
Well to understand why these POS Koreans games like Ragnorak, RYL, and the Lineaga garbage get so many millions of subscribers, all one truly has to do is look at the populations of Korea, China, etc compared to that of the USA. And look at the fact that in America we actually have lives and outdoors to get out in, where as in places like Korea, they got nothing but huge stressful cities with really, really small houses where the only thing in life is playing a damn mmo 70 hours a damn week. I feel sorry for them honestly.
Originally posted by mugengaia Ouch~! That sounds pretty darn racist right there...
..There's a fine line between being a racist and having pride in your own country.
And besides, I never said Koreans themselves suck. I'm quite sure a vast majority of them are great people. I said "Korea sucks" as in I'd never choose to live in a POS hellhole like that.
Ouch~! That sounds pretty darn racist right there...
..There's a fine line between being a racist and having pride in your own country.
And besides, I never said Koreans themselves suck. I'm quite sure a vast majority of them are great people. I said "Korea sucks" as in I'd never choose to live in a POS hellhole like that.
- Zaxx
I know it's not racist by grammar, but I think...uhm...let's say~ alittle rude maybe?
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month? Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools? MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
Originally posted by zaxtor99 Well to understand why these POS Koreans games like Ragnorak, RYL, and the Lineaga garbage get so many millions of subscribers, all one truly has to do is look at the populations of Korea, China, etc compared to that of the USA. And look at the fact that in America we actually have lives and outdoors to get out in, where as in places like Korea, they got nothing but huge stressful cities with really, really small houses where the only thing in life is playing a damn mmo 70 hours a damn week. I feel sorry for them honestly.
- Zaxx
Bah...I kinda feel same way for the poor polluted area...but since when was RYL korean? Is it korean? I thought it was some other country developed...
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month? Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools? MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
Well, i know it's not US made, and I betcha anything a helluva lot more Koreans and Chinese play it then do Americans. Hehe.
Also, if Korea or China or any place else could put out an mmo that was superior to the mmos being made here, then I'd be all over it like brown on rice. Until that time however, I will continue to give my American dollars for monthly fees to what I feel are vastly superior mmo games... and that's American mmos.
The simple truth of the matter is many are in sore need of perspective. Korean or for that matter any mmorpg's made in other countries are targeting their own demographics and demands.
The problem that actually exist is when arrogance comes into play. When people assume since a game is not custom tailored to their country, it must automatically suck. Korean and Americans have far different cultures, its only natural that korean gaming companies would make games for the Korean market and not the US. But heavens forbid any company doesnt focus 100% of its resources to appeasing the American consumer. They must be the devil incarnate or part of some kind of axis of evil.
If America does decline it will be noones fault but our own. Stupid homers who wave the flag as we burn the bill of rights, assume we will always be #1 and put no effort into it. Patriotism requires work, not thumping ones chest and screaming at the top of your lungs how great we are.
Most American games that were listed do not have a grind anymore.
DAoC- The average time it takes to get to 50 is around 5 days of play time. They even have a epic quests that give you great armor for pvp. There is some grind for realm points but you don't need more then RR5 to really compete.
I heard that RF online version for US is going to have less experince grind to fit the US player base.
Anyone know of any korean games out there that have more to offer then leveling. I played ROSE Storm riders online and all they had was the grind.
I did play some fun korean games. Gunz was fun to play. (that a korean game right?) But it is a FPS, it's not a morpg.
Does anyone have korean games they tried that has something else to offer instead of the grind?
-- "Any free people have the right to choose how it wants to be govern thats the essence of democracy. It's sad when America has chosen for the stability and consistency of a dictatorship and doing it democratically" -utnow
Ragnarok = grind fest ROSE = another grindfest RF on line = A littl ebit more grind fest Tantra = grind + And hell a lot more free mmorpg korean games out there that are soley based on grind grind grind.
Gunbound i think is korean, and I would like to think that maplestory is also korean... which are games full of time spent just to get your character to a certain level. How fun is that???
Like I said, you really can't do anything about this issue. It's just different taste of different gamers in different regions.
Lineage 2 and Ragnarok may suck in the US compared FFXI, but in Japan, both Ragnarok and L2 are by far more popular than FFXI.
It's just how people are in different cultural aspects of society.
SquareEnix has many MMOs out in japan. But MMOs from SquareEnix are more suited for western gamers, so they never really find any publishers in asian countires.
There are no korean, taiwan, or even chinese versions of FFXI because the system just doesn't appeal to the asian market.
Even SqaureEnix's next Big MMO title "Fantasy Earth" is having a hard time finding publishers in asia.
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month? Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools? MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
If they want to make games for koreans why the hell should they suite your stupid needs, instead of the koreans!? If they like the korean games like they are, should they change it because someone make a topic "Korean games suck" and write /true? NO!
Snarl-WoW - You are nothing but a genelising, stereotyping bastard... so goes for alot you other guys..
funniest thing here is the comments about the grind i mean EVERY bloody game is a grind-fest not just korean ones.
The reason it seems like theres too much grind to western gamers is because korean games are designed for the korean mmorpg where the players are one hell of alot more competetive than westerners who seem to want everything handed to them on a plate instead of actually putting time into a game.
Originally posted by Djin Yeah, but Korean games take the grind to the next level. Lets make a game where the level cap is 500!!! YEAH!! I still like Arena Net's approach. Level 20 cap, fast getting there and there's still stuff to do once you've capped out.
like i said above that because koreans games are designed for korean players who are much more competetive than westerners.
mugengaia and Rikimaru are pretty knowledgable about Korean MMO's so I would trust them.
Speaking from a development stand point, you cant design a good mmo without first examining the Korean Market. Simply put, mmo's in asia are a thousand times more popular then mmo's in the states. Probably the main thing people find wrong with the Korean mmo market are all the Lineage, MU online, and Ragnarok Online clones which were the most popular mmo's in asia; So people obviously tried to copy these games similiar to the sea of EQ clones, and soon to be WoW clones.
Comments
Learn what being a racist means first kid, then get back to us.
I am not a fan of games from the east, not a fan of anime either... just a different feel I don't enjoy... would not pay a yen for any of them...
You can't really say practically all korean MMOs suck just because it doesn't suit the western MMOers tastes'.
Most MMOs are usually similar to the trend of market they make most of their sales income from.
This means that korean MMOs usually have that same ol grind, unrestricted PvP and etc, because korean people generally play at such a competitve level. <---- Alittle too excessive-_-;;
But this doesn't necessarily mean that MMOs that actually would suit the Western MMO market don't exist in korea. Games such as TalesWeaver offer a unique quest system where you follow chapters like a traditional RPG. But games as these are never released states-side. Either because they're insufficient in funds, or they didn't get enough success in the asian market, to want to release it in the Western Market.
Well, in case of TalesWeaver...I really don't have a clue why softmax never released it states-side, but this goes for "War of Genesis" series as well. Anyone who is an import gamer would definitely know War of Genesis or Rhapsody of Zehpyr. I guess Softmax didn't want to bother with translating the games for them to be released Sates-Side. It's a real pity, and I am positive that any import gamer who's played either the japanese or the korean versions, know that WoG series is practically known as one of the best Strat-RPG series.
This is one problem that is also a complaint but something that you really can't do about. Most games that are made in the asian market, if they don't succeed in the Asian market don't get enough support to be released states-side. Or sometimes some companies just don't bother.
But this is the same states-side as well. You'll probably never see Star Wars Galaxies in the korean market period. -_-;;
There's another gap between Western and Asian MMO market. It's the "general" (I'm not saying there aren't many hard-core players in NA, just not as many.) hard-core-ness of the players. How much of their time they consume, how much effort they put into, and etc. People still generally think you don't have a social life if you play MMOs -_-;; in the US. In korea, guild members even have dinner&drinking meetings on ocassions.
This different social concept of the market in the East and West make it different for games of different formats to succeed in both sides of the ocean.
At this years TGS2005 for example, SquareEnix wanted to find a korean publisher for "FantasyEarth". But no korean oniline games distributors wanted to take in the offer as of yet. The reason being is that, eventhough the game has the SquareEnix title to it, it doesn't offer enough Eastern qualities of MMOs to succeed in korea. Few publishers showed interest in licencing FantasyEarth, but the response they gave to SquareEnix was to refine the game for an asian market, and they may publish it in the near future, but not at this point where the game would temporarily live by the developer's name only.
The fact is, korean game developers aren't going to bother spending so much money on making games succeed on boths sides of the ocean. "WoW" is the only MMO that has had surprising success in both continents. Most companies don't seem to have the need to adjust to this concept because they make enough money alone in their countries. From what is reported, most companies after releasing an MMO has basically succeeded in making a good profit if they at least have 30% of Open-Beta testers as subscribers.
So even if korean MMOs in general always get bad reputations, the game developers could care less, since they are already making more money by just having foreign publishers.
Just look at things this way. L2 in Asia is basically bigger than WoW (except korea now). In japan it's bigger, in taiwan it's bigger. From these two alone NCsoft makes load of money. You kinda have to wonder why the NA service for L2 was so~ crappy. When they make so much money on the other side of the ocean. They really couldn't care less about some 140k-ish users in NA L2. They were already making freebie money off NA users, they just needed to focus on the regions where the game was actually popular.
Or for another example, look at RFOnline right now. CCR is nowhere as big as NCsoft, but they're making hell lot of money. CCR only has to focus on service in korea. It just gives publishers the right to release the games other places. It already has thousands of users in Taiwan, soon to be in japan, coming soon in Philipines, and going to be Q1 of 2006 for UK/US. CCR is getting millions for licencing fees+certain percentage in sharing profits. CCR just made the game for korea. Who wouldn've thought they'd get RF to be this successful? Noneone I bet. And even if this game gets trashed talked in near future, let it be the grind or the bad services, CCR wouldn't give a damn. Why? cause they only gave publishing rights for millions in profit+even if the game doesn't attract too many players, CCR is still going to get certain percentage in sharing profits.
The harsh truth is that, this is how the markets are set up. The developers could care less if their games do well on the other side of the ocean. Usually game companies focus on success in Asian market alone or Western Market alone, but not both at once. Even if their games get released on the other side of the ocean the developers could care less because they are not losing money, as long as at home it's doing well.
There are about 100x more Online related games in korea than the US. I am seriously talking tons. And out of those tons, some may even be liked by western gamers, but those are the ones korean people don't like. So without any success in korea you'll never see any of these korean games. But this appllies vice-versa, so there's no real point in complaining.
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month?
Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools?
MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
Another thing. Have you ever though about where in the hell GRAVITY got so much money?
Because...there ain't no damn way Ragnarok was ever near lineage, lineage2, or WoW.
Simple answer to this if you do alitle research. Ragnarok Online practically has twice as many subscribers than all other MMOs offered in japan.
Gravity got all its stinking money from Japan alone...-_-;;
WoW doesn't even exist in japan -_-;;
I dun know why, but they don't have WoW japan...weird...
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month?
Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools?
MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month?
Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools?
MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
Well to understand why these POS Koreans games like Ragnorak, RYL, and the Lineaga garbage get so many millions of subscribers, all one truly has to do is look at the populations of Korea, China, etc compared to that of the USA. And look at the fact that in America we actually have lives and outdoors to get out in, where as in places like Korea, they got nothing but huge stressful cities with really, really small houses where the only thing in life is playing a damn mmo 70 hours a damn week. I feel sorry for them honestly.
- Zaxx
..There's a fine line between being a racist and having pride in your own country.
And besides, I never said Koreans themselves suck. I'm quite sure a vast majority of them are great people. I said "Korea sucks" as in I'd never choose to live in a POS hellhole like that.
- Zaxx
..There's a fine line between being a racist and having pride in your own country.
And besides, I never said Koreans themselves suck. I'm quite sure a vast majority of them are great people. I said "Korea sucks" as in I'd never choose to live in a POS hellhole like that.
- Zaxx
I know it's not racist by grammar, but I think...uhm...let's say~ alittle rude maybe?
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month?
Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools?
MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month?
Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools?
MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
Well, i know it's not US made, and I betcha anything a helluva lot more Koreans and Chinese play it then do Americans. Hehe.
Also, if Korea or China or any place else could put out an mmo that was superior to the mmos being made here, then I'd be all over it like brown on rice. Until that time however, I will continue to give my American dollars for monthly fees to what I feel are vastly superior mmo games... and that's American mmos.
- Zaxx
Zaxx, better watch how you go or that Jimmy guy wll be flaming your ass again! lol
-sigh- ok democracy...
The simple truth of the matter is many are in sore need of perspective. Korean or for that matter any mmorpg's made in other countries are targeting their own demographics and demands.
The problem that actually exist is when arrogance comes into play. When people assume since a game is not custom tailored to their country, it must automatically suck. Korean and Americans have far different cultures, its only natural that korean gaming companies would make games for the Korean market and not the US. But heavens forbid any company doesnt focus 100% of its resources to appeasing the American consumer. They must be the devil incarnate or part of some kind of axis of evil.
If America does decline it will be noones fault but our own. Stupid homers who wave the flag as we burn the bill of rights, assume we will always be #1 and put no effort into it. Patriotism requires work, not thumping ones chest and screaming at the top of your lungs how great we are.
Most American games that were listed do not have a grind anymore.
DAoC- The average time it takes to get to 50 is around 5 days of play time. They even have a epic quests that give you great armor for pvp. There is some grind for realm points but you don't need more then RR5 to really compete.
I heard that RF online version for US is going to have less experince grind to fit the US player base.
Anyone know of any korean games out there that have more to offer then leveling. I played ROSE Storm riders online and all they had was the grind.
I did play some fun korean games. Gunz was fun to play. (that a korean game right?) But it is a FPS, it's not a morpg.
Does anyone have korean games they tried that has something else to offer instead of the grind?
--
"Any free people have the right to choose how it wants to be govern thats the essence of democracy. It's sad when America has chosen for the stability and consistency of a dictatorship and doing it democratically" -utnow
Ragnarok = grind fest
ROSE = another grindfest
RF on line = A littl ebit more grind fest
Tantra = grind +
And hell a lot more free mmorpg korean games out there that are soley based on grind grind grind.
Gunbound i think is korean, and I would like to think that maplestory is also korean... which are games full of time spent just to get your character to a certain level. How fun is that???
i~ku~ra
Like I said, you really can't do anything about this issue. It's just different taste of different gamers in different regions.
Lineage 2 and Ragnarok may suck in the US compared FFXI, but in Japan, both Ragnarok and L2 are by far more popular than FFXI.
It's just how people are in different cultural aspects of society.
SquareEnix has many MMOs out in japan. But MMOs from SquareEnix are more suited for western gamers, so they never really find any publishers in asian countires.
There are no korean, taiwan, or even chinese versions of FFXI because the system just doesn't appeal to the asian market.
Even SqaureEnix's next Big MMO title "Fantasy Earth" is having a hard time finding publishers in asia.
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month?
Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools?
MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
wtf...
If they want to make games for koreans why the hell should they suite your stupid needs, instead of the koreans!? If they like the korean games like they are, should they change it because someone make a topic "Korean games suck" and write /true? NO!
Snarl-WoW - You are nothing but a genelising, stereotyping bastard... so goes for alot you other guys..
Why not just stay away from the korean market?
Jesus Christ...
funniest thing here is the comments about the grind i mean EVERY bloody game is a grind-fest not just korean ones.
The reason it seems like theres too much grind to western gamers is because korean games are designed for the korean mmorpg where the players are one hell of alot more competetive than westerners who seem to want everything handed to them on a plate instead of actually putting time into a game.
Yeah, but Korean games take the grind to the next level.
Lets make a game where the level cap is 500!!! YEAH!!
I still like Arena Net's approach. Level 20 cap, fast getting there and there's still stuff to do once you've capped out.
What will he do next?
like i said above that because koreans games are designed for korean players who are much more competetive than westerners.
The truth is darn simple...
I keep saying it's because koreans are generally just way~ more competitive people than are westerners.
But some westerners just don't want to admit it.
They all just complain, because in the end, they would like for some korean games to approach a western concept, so they can enjoy it.
But again, the fact is, no company will spend extra money to suit other country peoples' taste when they're already successful in their own countires.
Kinda like "why bother" for a few extra bucks...Cause I wouldn't.
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month?
Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools?
MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
OI! OI! OI! don't say that some of the Korean Games are acctually pretty decent such as:
R.O.S.E Online
Flyff Fly For Fun
Some of there titles are decent!
http://www.seals-online.moonfruit.com enix_boy_ryan@hotmail.co.uk
Seals Online AN EPIC MMORPG Fantasy United (C)
Want to join Seals Online Staff...? Goto the site and become a member and then you will get free access to the game!
http://www.fantasy-united.moonfruit.com
mugengaia and Rikimaru are pretty knowledgable about Korean MMO's so I would trust them.
Speaking from a development stand point, you cant design a good mmo without first examining the Korean Market. Simply put, mmo's in asia are a thousand times more popular then mmo's in the states. Probably the main thing people find wrong with the Korean mmo market are all the Lineage, MU online, and Ragnarok Online clones which were the most popular mmo's in asia; So people obviously tried to copy these games similiar to the sea of EQ clones, and soon to be WoW clones.