Feels like I paid for DS, but it wasn't through money. Leaving a mmo for so long without fresh content, while being so successful and having a sub is nothing more than a disgrace. Wouldn't be so bad if DS was actually a decent raid, instead of a half hearted attempt using generic mechanics.
That they charge a monthly sub, making millions, but the only decent new content you get, is an expansion which costs the same as a full-price game. Most other MMO's give free updates all the time, yet considering the money Blizzard are raking in, there's nothing decent really between expansions.
The players are their own worst enemy - all the time they pay and accept this paltry offering, nothing will change.
Blizzard could easily put new stuff in their game every two weeks even. Let's face it, after the starting zones, it's the same respective journey for Horde or Alliance right up to cap. They could at least change the quests and content regularly. Isn't $150m a month enough to warrant giving us something new to do, or what else are the subs for?
Not only that, but when asked if we'd see additional content after Dragon Soul their reply was "no". Because they were moving the teams to focus on MoP. That was 9 - 10 months ago. Zero content since then. Just about every mmo adds more content than Blizzard, with much smaller capital returns.
I think that is the crux of the issue; which is by far the most "offensive". Other mmos add more content with less revenue than wow; and for cheaper. I don't think anyone expects to get free expansions in wow, though there are multiple mmos which do provide that service (kudos to them). I think what is bothering a lot of people is just how much, and what, you are getting for what you are paying; the advent of GW2, I think, is exacerbating the matter.
More people are realizing that maybe wow is no longer worth the monthly sub. Not that the game is not good, but comparing what you are getting for what you are having to pay, other games are looking more enticing as the months and years go by.
There is also the issue of quality. As the years have gone by, other than interface mechanics, wow has not offered virtually any new gameplay inovations. I would argue that Rift, in a little over 2 years, has offered more new gameplay mechanics and inovations than wow has in almost 8 years; and it has done so at a lower cost for the player with less revenue and with a smaller dev team and budget than wow. In other words, players keep getting the same old stuff, with just new skins, with every new expansion for more than what other players get and for much less.
This is primarily why I quit wow and have moved on to GW2.
That they charge a monthly sub, making millions, but the only decent new content you get, is an expansion which costs the same as a full-price game. Most other MMO's give free updates all the time, yet considering the money Blizzard are raking in, there's nothing decent really between expansions.
The players are their own worst enemy - all the time they pay and accept this paltry offering, nothing will change.
Blizzard could easily put new stuff in their game every two weeks even. Let's face it, after the starting zones, it's the same respective journey for Horde or Alliance right up to cap. They could at least change the quests and content regularly. Isn't $150m a month enough to warrant giving us something new to do, or what else are the subs for?
I'd just like to point out that Blizzards patches are roughly around twice the size of your average Trion patch.
Rift gets a big patch every 2 months or so, WoW gets a patch every 4-5 months or so, it almost evens out - content wise.
If Blizzard were to cut their patches in half and update the two halves every 2-3 months people would be happy, but they don't, they release a major patch when it's ready.
I do agree though that with the money Blizzard is making they should release one of their larger patches every 3 months or so, not 4-5 months.
That they charge a monthly sub, making millions, but the only decent new content you get, is an expansion which costs the same as a full-price game. Most other MMO's give free updates all the time, yet considering the money Blizzard are raking in, there's nothing decent really between expansions.
The players are their own worst enemy - all the time they pay and accept this paltry offering, nothing will change.
Blizzard could easily put new stuff in their game every two weeks even. Let's face it, after the starting zones, it's the same respective journey for Horde or Alliance right up to cap. They could at least change the quests and content regularly. Isn't $150m a month enough to warrant giving us something new to do, or what else are the subs for?
I'd just like to point out that Blizzards patches are roughly around twice the size of your average Trion patch.
Rift gets a big patch every 2 months or so, WoW gets a patch every 4-5 months or so, it almost evens out - content wise.
If Blizzard were to cut their patches in half and update the two halves every 2-3 months people would be happy, but they don't, they release a major patch when it's ready.
I do agree though that with the money Blizzard is making they should release one of their larger patches every 3 months or so, not 4-5 months.
Funny, for all their patches, how much innovation has Blizzard brought to WOW compared to what Trion has brought to Rift. By innovation I don't mean petty UI mechanics and new skins, I'm talking about new gameplay mechanics; talent trees don't count by the way.
I don't play Rift and have recently quit WOW (for GW2), but "bang for your buck" I would argue that between those two games, Rift is a much better deal.
1. $15 a month is almost neglectable for a sector of wow subscribers, so they don't even feel when they are charged .
2. Certain sector of wow is not composed of content burners, so they can even be behind the content release rate.
3. We tend to assume that subscribers demographics is similar to our guild, forum, website, etc.
1. So... just because some people can afford to be ripped off, does that still make it right? (most likely if you asked the parents who are paying for a lot of the kids who play wow, I'm sure they would beg to differ with you).
2. How does being in front or behind the pace of content release justify wow's cost, content quantity and quality? If you're going to tell me that Blizzard is timing the release of wow's content on the basis of the average progression of their playerbase, what does that say about other mmo's playerbase who enjoy a much faster pase of content (for a much lower cost), and more importantly, what does that say about wow's playerbase and Blizzard itself? Considering wow's kiddy-friendly and fast-paced progression, it certainly cannot be that wow's content is more difficult in comparison to other mmos.
What about 150$ exclusive preorder editions? Or preorders in general: selling products that don't even exist yet. Or selling lieftime subs of games that ain't even released. Or games that have to be bought, paid with a subscription, and have an item shop. Or games that are designed on purpose in a way, that they will free to play later on, but will before that happens try to milk the players as much as possible. And then all those pay 2 win games. And then selling every tiny change as the best new invention.
Its called capitalism and its encouraged and rewarded. Dont like it? Then move to a commune where everyone trades things and skills for what they want....bet you'll be back to a capitlaist society in a weeks time.
Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online
Its called capitalism and its encouraged and rewarded. Dont like it? Then move to a commune where everyone trades things and skills for what they want....bet you'll be back to a capitlaist society in a weeks time.
I think it should go.
It's called capitalism. If you feel like they are offering an inferior product for your money, it's time to stop paying for that product.
Its called capitalism and its encouraged and rewarded. Dont like it? Then move to a commune where everyone trades things and skills for what they want....bet you'll be back to a capitlaist society in a weeks time.
The argument is not against capitalism, the argument is that wow is ripping people off. One of the most important checks and balances of a capitalist economic system is the purchasing power of the consumer. And I believe wow is testing the limits of what gamers are willing to pay and to put up with.
1. $15 a month is almost neglectable for a sector of wow subscribers, so they don't even feel when they are charged .
2. Certain sector of wow is not composed of content burners, so they can even be behind the content release rate.
3. We tend to assume that subscribers demographics is similar to our guild, forum, website, etc.
1. So... just because some people can afford to be ripped off, does that still make it right? (most likely if you asked the parents who are paying for a lot of the kids who play wow, I'm sure they would beg to differ with you).
2. How does being in front or behind the pace of content release justify wow's cost, content quantity and quality? If you're going to tell me that Blizzard is timing the release of wow's content on the basis of the average progression of their playerbase, what does that say about other mmo's playerbase who enjoy a much faster pase of content (for a much lower cost), and more importantly, what does that say about wow's playerbase and Blizzard itself? Considering wow's kiddy-friendly and fast-paced progression, it certainly cannot be that wow's content is more difficult in comparison to other mmos.
3. Does that include you?
You must be very poor if $15 per month is being ripped off, which appearently only "some people can afford".
Blizzard is earning loads of money, and still have the largest income / playerbase of any p2p game. With such numbers, you wouldn't change much either, if it was your company.
If this "doesn't make it right" for you, then just stay away. As someone said earlier, no one's holding a gun to your head.
And this my friends is why you demand to be treated like customers and not like cows, but nooo let's call everyone wanting a change for the better "entitled" like the good tools you are. Just look at the CoD kids, old maps for $15 dollars? Yeah sure let's buy it.
Well, with that point you are preaching to the choir. When I first started playing mmo's I thought that there would be regular updates, a plan for each expansion that fit into a larger vision and a push to create a huge world where players could explore all sorts of possibilities.
However, I've never seen that in any mmo I've played.
Each update usually ends up having the meaninful impact of, well, this:
I know you play Lineage 2. Back when I played the updates were not only free, but DID feel like they were each part of a larger vision.
I know I've been away a long time, and things might have changed. But C3 and the whole seven signs thing really felt likeexpanded the world, added lots of content, and felt like part of Lineage2. I remember C2 being similar to a lesser degree.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
That they charge a monthly sub, making millions, but the only decent new content you get, is an expansion which costs the same as a full-price game. Most other MMO's give free updates all the time, yet considering the money Blizzard are raking in, there's nothing decent really between expansions.
The players are their own worst enemy - all the time they pay and accept this paltry offering, nothing will change.
Blizzard could easily put new stuff in their game every two weeks even. Let's face it, after the starting zones, it's the same respective journey for Horde or Alliance right up to cap. They could at least change the quests and content regularly. Isn't $150m a month enough to warrant giving us something new to do, or what else are the subs for?
I'd just like to point out that Blizzards patches are roughly around twice the size of your average Trion patch.
Rift gets a big patch every 2 months or so, WoW gets a patch every 4-5 months or so, it almost evens out - content wise.
If Blizzard were to cut their patches in half and update the two halves every 2-3 months people would be happy, but they don't, they release a major patch when it's ready.
I do agree though that with the money Blizzard is making they should release one of their larger patches every 3 months or so, not 4-5 months.
Funny, for all their patches, how much innovation has Blizzard brought to WOW compared to what Trion has brought to Rift. By innovation I don't mean petty UI mechanics and new skins, I'm talking about new gameplay mechanics; talent trees don't count by the way.
I don't play Rift and have recently quit WOW (for GW2), but "bang for your buck" I would argue that between those two games, Rift is a much better deal.
Does Rift have any innovation? It steals all of it's ideas from every other game, nothing in that game is original.
I don't consider new gameplay mechanics, I consider content as a whole, raids etc.
WoW's patches ARE almost twice the size of Rifts, so it does even out.
I swear if Blizzard did half patches every 3 months people like you would praise Blizzard for releasing content so often, like people praise Trion.
Well, with that point you are preaching to the choir. When I first started playing mmo's I thought that there would be regular updates, a plan for each expansion that fit into a larger vision and a push to create a huge world where players could explore all sorts of possibilities.
However, I've never seen that in any mmo I've played.
Each update usually ends up having the meaninful impact of, well, this:
I know you play Lineage 2. Back when I played the updates were not only free, but DID feel like they were each part of a larger vision.
I know I've been away a long time, and things might have changed. But C3 and the whole seven signs thing really felt likeexpanded the world, added lots of content, and felt like part of Lineage2. I remember C2 being similar to a lesser degree.
I disagree.
The L2 updates, though free, were very poorly thought out. I spoke with one of the Head GM's at a Gen Con who told me, among other things, that the way they developed the game was to allow groups to experiment, to create, to explore. Then they would present things and if things seemed like they fit they would implement them.
When I made that statement (above) I was specifically thinking about L2. How the addition of Necros and Catacombs were poorly implemented, how anyone could buy into dawn or dusk regardless of whether they were a castle owner.
So sure, they were "free" as that seems to be the modus operandi for Asian game companies but they felt like they took the game further and further away from what seemed like a pretty solid world view. After C2 things just went downhill.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Not that I care about WoW or your topic much, but this isn't correct. Rift is the only MMO that does this. TSW is starting the same way, but we'll have to wait and see how that pans out for Funcom.
Regardless, 1 maybe 2 MMOs does not equal most.
What? Almost all MMOs do it.
Blizzard has never reinvested that WoW money into the game. WoW is incredibly feature lite. It doesn't even have housing.
Developers with a 1 million dollar budget and 30 man teams have made much more impressive MMOs with more features.
That they charge a monthly sub, making millions, but the only decent new content you get, is an expansion which costs the same as a full-price game. Most other MMO's give free updates all the time, yet considering the money Blizzard are raking in, there's nothing decent really between expansions.
The players are their own worst enemy - all the time they pay and accept this paltry offering, nothing will change.
Blizzard could easily put new stuff in their game every two weeks even. Let's face it, after the starting zones, it's the same respective journey for Horde or Alliance right up to cap. They could at least change the quests and content regularly. Isn't $150m a month enough to warrant giving us something new to do, or what else are the subs for?
1) Blizzard has multiple updates between each expansion. The beginning of Cata and the end of Cata are very different in terms of content. In cata, Blizzard also expanded on guild control and introduced things like transmogrification, something players have been asking for, for a long time.
2) Players continue to pay for products they are happy with. The subs with SWTOR dropped drastically after the first 3 months because the players were no longer happy with the product. Blizzard's sub grew for years because their player base was generally happy with the product.
3) You have no idea what you are talking about in terms of content being pushed out every two weeks. Content takes a large amount of time to create, test, patch, then re-test, re-patch, ect. Every two weeks? Don't make me laugh. The content Blizzard is putting out now has been planned YEARS in advance. Blizzard's biggest expense is customer service because of their giant playerbase.
That they charge a monthly sub, making millions, but the only decent new content you get, is an expansion which costs the same as a full-price game. Most other MMO's give free updates all the time, yet considering the money Blizzard are raking in, there's nothing decent really between expansions.
The players are their own worst enemy - all the time they pay and accept this paltry offering, nothing will change.
Blizzard could easily put new stuff in their game every two weeks even. Let's face it, after the starting zones, it's the same respective journey for Horde or Alliance right up to cap. They could at least change the quests and content regularly. Isn't $150m a month enough to warrant giving us something new to do, or what else are the subs for?
This has been debated since mmo's first started please stay up to date mmo site's are have millions of threads like this one please no more.
Not that I care about WoW or your topic much, but this isn't correct. Rift is the only MMO that does this. TSW is starting the same way, but we'll have to wait and see how that pans out for Funcom.
Regardless, 1 maybe 2 MMOs does not equal most.
What? Almost all MMOs do it.
Blizzard has never reinvested that WoW money into the game. WoW is incredibly feature lite. It doesn't even have housing.
Developers with a 1 million dollar budget and 30 man teams have made much more impressive MMOs with more features.
he said all the time. I don't count a quarterly update or 4-5 updates a year - "all the time"
By "all the time" I meant their updates were always free.
In other words, your communication skills leaves everything to be desired then.
Me thinks your mom wouldn't pay your sub anymore, and that's why your whining. Blizzard is earning billions, your rant won't make them change anything at all.
Btw, WoW also have free updates. I wish they were more often, but I sure as hell didn't pay for DS or any of the other content patches.
I still think my communication skills are a whole lot better than your 'people' skills. What a childish reply to get from you, talking about my mother and stuff. Dear oh dear.
Comments
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Yeah, DS is really worth £120. Was implying the cost of burn out, through zero fresh content.
I think that is the crux of the issue; which is by far the most "offensive". Other mmos add more content with less revenue than wow; and for cheaper. I don't think anyone expects to get free expansions in wow, though there are multiple mmos which do provide that service (kudos to them). I think what is bothering a lot of people is just how much, and what, you are getting for what you are paying; the advent of GW2, I think, is exacerbating the matter.
More people are realizing that maybe wow is no longer worth the monthly sub. Not that the game is not good, but comparing what you are getting for what you are having to pay, other games are looking more enticing as the months and years go by.
There is also the issue of quality. As the years have gone by, other than interface mechanics, wow has not offered virtually any new gameplay inovations. I would argue that Rift, in a little over 2 years, has offered more new gameplay mechanics and inovations than wow has in almost 8 years; and it has done so at a lower cost for the player with less revenue and with a smaller dev team and budget than wow. In other words, players keep getting the same old stuff, with just new skins, with every new expansion for more than what other players get and for much less.
This is primarily why I quit wow and have moved on to GW2.
I'd just like to point out that Blizzards patches are roughly around twice the size of your average Trion patch.
Rift gets a big patch every 2 months or so, WoW gets a patch every 4-5 months or so, it almost evens out - content wise.
If Blizzard were to cut their patches in half and update the two halves every 2-3 months people would be happy, but they don't, they release a major patch when it's ready.
I do agree though that with the money Blizzard is making they should release one of their larger patches every 3 months or so, not 4-5 months.
There are few things OP seems to have missed:
1. $15 a month is almost neglectable for a sector of wow subscribers, so they don't even feel when they are charged .
2. Certain sector of wow is not composed of content burners, so they can even be behind the content release rate.
We tend to assume that subscribers demographics is similar to our guild, forum, website, etc.
Funny, for all their patches, how much innovation has Blizzard brought to WOW compared to what Trion has brought to Rift. By innovation I don't mean petty UI mechanics and new skins, I'm talking about new gameplay mechanics; talent trees don't count by the way.
I don't play Rift and have recently quit WOW (for GW2), but "bang for your buck" I would argue that between those two games, Rift is a much better deal.
you claimed RIFT was one of the best mmos to patch all the time
RIFT gave TWO significant updates this year.... thats not all the time either
http://telarapedia.com/wiki/Category:RIFT_Patches
1.7
1.8
EQ2 patches every week w hotfixes but the content updates are quarterly
EQ2 fan sites
1. So... just because some people can afford to be ripped off, does that still make it right? (most likely if you asked the parents who are paying for a lot of the kids who play wow, I'm sure they would beg to differ with you).
2. How does being in front or behind the pace of content release justify wow's cost, content quantity and quality? If you're going to tell me that Blizzard is timing the release of wow's content on the basis of the average progression of their playerbase, what does that say about other mmo's playerbase who enjoy a much faster pase of content (for a much lower cost), and more importantly, what does that say about wow's playerbase and Blizzard itself? Considering wow's kiddy-friendly and fast-paced progression, it certainly cannot be that wow's content is more difficult in comparison to other mmos.
3. Does that include you?
That is the biggest scandal?
What about 150$ exclusive preorder editions? Or preorders in general: selling products that don't even exist yet. Or selling lieftime subs of games that ain't even released. Or games that have to be bought, paid with a subscription, and have an item shop. Or games that are designed on purpose in a way, that they will free to play later on, but will before that happens try to milk the players as much as possible. And then all those pay 2 win games. And then selling every tiny change as the best new invention.
*shrugs*
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Its called capitalism and its encouraged and rewarded. Dont like it? Then move to a commune where everyone trades things and skills for what they want....bet you'll be back to a capitlaist society in a weeks time.
Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online
www.albioncentralbank.enjin.com
I think it should go.
It's called capitalism. If you feel like they are offering an inferior product for your money, it's time to stop paying for that product.
The argument is not against capitalism, the argument is that wow is ripping people off. One of the most important checks and balances of a capitalist economic system is the purchasing power of the consumer. And I believe wow is testing the limits of what gamers are willing to pay and to put up with.
You must be very poor if $15 per month is being ripped off, which appearently only "some people can afford".
Blizzard is earning loads of money, and still have the largest income / playerbase of any p2p game. With such numbers, you wouldn't change much either, if it was your company.
If this "doesn't make it right" for you, then just stay away. As someone said earlier, no one's holding a gun to your head.
blizzard has been very foolish
they must have lost more players than they still have
most have left because it got boring and not worth paying for nothing
if they had taken 1 million of the subs every month and used it to develop more content
imagin how much content they would have now and how many would'nt of left
I know you play Lineage 2. Back when I played the updates were not only free, but DID feel like they were each part of a larger vision.
I know I've been away a long time, and things might have changed. But C3 and the whole seven signs thing really felt likeexpanded the world, added lots of content, and felt like part of Lineage2. I remember C2 being similar to a lesser degree.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Does Rift have any innovation? It steals all of it's ideas from every other game, nothing in that game is original.
I don't consider new gameplay mechanics, I consider content as a whole, raids etc.
WoW's patches ARE almost twice the size of Rifts, so it does even out.
I swear if Blizzard did half patches every 3 months people like you would praise Blizzard for releasing content so often, like people praise Trion.
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Holy Flamin' Frost-Brand Gronk-Slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' Woundin' an' Returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-Out-Yer-Bum!! ~Planescape: Torment~
I disagree.
The L2 updates, though free, were very poorly thought out. I spoke with one of the Head GM's at a Gen Con who told me, among other things, that the way they developed the game was to allow groups to experiment, to create, to explore. Then they would present things and if things seemed like they fit they would implement them.
When I made that statement (above) I was specifically thinking about L2. How the addition of Necros and Catacombs were poorly implemented, how anyone could buy into dawn or dusk regardless of whether they were a castle owner.
So sure, they were "free" as that seems to be the modus operandi for Asian game companies but they felt like they took the game further and further away from what seemed like a pretty solid world view. After C2 things just went downhill.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
What? Almost all MMOs do it.
Blizzard has never reinvested that WoW money into the game. WoW is incredibly feature lite. It doesn't even have housing.
Developers with a 1 million dollar budget and 30 man teams have made much more impressive MMOs with more features.
1) Blizzard has multiple updates between each expansion. The beginning of Cata and the end of Cata are very different in terms of content. In cata, Blizzard also expanded on guild control and introduced things like transmogrification, something players have been asking for, for a long time.
2) Players continue to pay for products they are happy with. The subs with SWTOR dropped drastically after the first 3 months because the players were no longer happy with the product. Blizzard's sub grew for years because their player base was generally happy with the product.
3) You have no idea what you are talking about in terms of content being pushed out every two weeks. Content takes a large amount of time to create, test, patch, then re-test, re-patch, ect. Every two weeks? Don't make me laugh. The content Blizzard is putting out now has been planned YEARS in advance. Blizzard's biggest expense is customer service because of their giant playerbase.
This has been debated since mmo's first started please stay up to date mmo site's are have millions of threads like this one please no more.
Evil will always triumph because good is dumb....
I still think my communication skills are a whole lot better than your 'people' skills. What a childish reply to get from you, talking about my mother and stuff. Dear oh dear.