Scaling. Enough said about that word. More people, more mobs, more "WoW" like raids. If you raiders want a typical raid, gather up 40 people and attack away!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
A raid is a type of mission in a video game in which a very large number of people (larger than the normal team size set by the game) attempt to defeat a boss monster
Raids can occur in an instanced zone or a public zone. An advantage to a raid being in an instanced zone is that the raid leader can control who participates. An advantage to a raid being in a public zone is that anyone is free to join the raid when they like, although they may be removed from the raid if they disrupt the original raid group. Disadvantages to public raids are that they are more susceptible to griefing, and sometimes cannot be rezoned, as an instanced raid can, unless the boss is reset by the server.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Since this has been such a hot topic just wanted to give an example of a raid sample in GW2. This is not a max level boss this is around level 60 stuff.
video does NOT have proper difficulty scaling it's an old demo video
personally for me I never was a raider type so being able to jump into massive battles without worring about specific meet up times and hoping you get everyone to show up is a huge plus for me. I enjoyed the open world boss types in Rift and this is a step forward from that so anyways.. enjoy
here's 2 videos showing low level stuff with proper scaling to show difficulty in fights a little better
Thanks for both the GW2 videos and the WoW reminder, i do not miss doing the WoW thing at ALL. Standing in the same place pressing the same 4 buttons over and over relying on a single healer or someone tanking trying to manipulate aggro so no one dies/ UGH can't believe i thought that was awesome at one time.
I love when it comes to tbe big dragon encounter. that they have canons to take down his health quicker then normal attacks.
A raid is a type of mission in a video game in which a very large number of people (larger than the normal team size set by the game) attempt to defeat a boss monster
Raids can occur in an instanced zone or a public zone. An advantage to a raid being in an instanced zone is that the raid leader can control who participates. An advantage to a raid being in a public zone is that anyone is free to join the raid when they like, although they may be removed from the raid if they disrupt the original raid group. Disadvantages to public raids are that they are more susceptible to griefing, and sometimes cannot be rezoned, as an instanced raid can, unless the boss is reset by the server.
I think GW2 devs thought about the griefing thing that's why they put in canons like in the dragon encounter to help offset the extra health of the bystanders standing around doing nothing.
Agreed. This was a Raid Boss in a Raid, fought by whst could be called a group of Raiders. This happens to be WOW but would be the same in any game with similar setup. The OP posted a World encounter. The word raid does not apply to that.
A raid is a type of mission in a video game in which a very large number of people (larger than the normal team size set by the game) attempt to defeat a boss monster
Raids can occur in an instanced zone or a public zone. An advantage to a raid being in an instanced zone is that the raid leader can control who participates. An advantage to a raid being in a public zone is that anyone is free to join the raid when they like, although they may be removed from the raid if they disrupt the original raid group. Disadvantages to public raids are that they are more susceptible to griefing, and sometimes cannot be rezoned, as an instanced raid can, unless the boss is reset by the server.
I think GW2 devs thought about the griefing thing that's why they put in canons like in the dragon encounter to help offset the extra health of the bystanders standing around doing nothing.
Nah its cause you cant grief really everyone whos involed gets exp and rewards it self so its all good and people thinking they can grief I tried to do it in one of the boss fights in this and it didn't change a thing unless its 20 or more players trying to grief it might.
Aerowyn you never stop with the awsome vids the first one was great the other 2 was like Deja Vu Thanks there great.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
I really don't like the scaling of the boss and allowing anyone to tag along. I do like a bit of strategy to my fights and this seemed a bit too easy. I was hoping it would be more like old EQ where you would have to get a ton of people together, clear an area for a bit and then pull the boss, most likely being defeated and having to try it all again, but with the strategy modern games have brought us.
All my hopes are in PvP. This looks like a good time, but nothing serious. Maybe the level 80 bosses will be more impressive in the way they're brought down.
I derive my strength from passion. Do you feel that? That is what seperates you and I, Jedi!
Originally posted by Aerowyn updated OP with links I had put throughout this thread to clarify little more on difficulty
This is a video of the same raid (dynamic event, or whatever you want to call it), also from gamescom 2011, but with much better perspective (more close-up), and a voice explaining, with details, what is actually giong on.
The difference between GW2 and WoW, or similar MMORPGs, is that in GW2 I don't have to be a part of some guild, have a proper gear, be a certain class with a certain spec and log in at a specific hour, to be allowed, by some moron guild leader, to join his raid and have a chance at getting more gear, to be able to do the next raid.
This means that in GW2 I will actually be interested in those big encounters and will probably take part in them.
Calling this a raid is a little misleading to alot of people, in reality this is more of a dynamic event at its full scale of epicness. This wasn't scheduled, instanced, and certainly wasn't available to people that weren't in that area when it happened. So for those who think GW2 has "raiding", you are quite wrong.
show me where its defined raiding = large scale instanced dungeons
Told you haters now complaining coz it aint instanced. Tanks and healers next or they complained about it already....
yeah they have already been complaining about the no tanks no healers thing, I think i'll record my engineer using the Elixir Gun and healer turret while fighting bosses to show these people what support really can do.
Agreed. This was a Raid Boss in a Raid, fought by whst could be called a group of Raiders. This happens to be WOW but would be the same in any game with similar setup. The OP posted a World encounter. The word raid does not apply to that.
added video to OP oh this is also a very early look at this encounter
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Watched the video and was instantly reminded of why i hated raids in WoW, nothing but a dance routine doing the same exact thing over and over while running away from AOE hotspots the stationary boss puts on the ground, puts a nondispellable or absolutely needed to be dispelled ability on one of the raiders and having to worry about OPowered adds. Nothing new or interesting so glad i stopped playing.
Congratulations on posting one of the most basic raid bosses in WoW Cataclysm that was made purposely to be very simple.
But hey, whatever you have to do to try and prove your point.
Originally posted by colddog04 They're supposed to be fun and they are part of the open world. This is a part of the freaking leveling experience, not some crazy difficult hard mode raid boss.
Uh, in GW2 isnt end game supposed to start at level 1 or something? I hear that often enough on this board.
Also, it doesnt have to be be some crazy difficult hard mode raid boss just at least difficult enough that people cant attack a few times and goof off the rest of the fight and get full credit. It cheapens the event and the game.
Congratulations on posting one of the most basic raid bosses in WoW Cataclysm that was made purposely to be very simple.
But hey, whatever you have to do to try and prove your point.
Originally posted by colddog04 They're supposed to be fun and they are part of the open world. This is a part of the freaking leveling experience, not some crazy difficult hard mode raid boss.
Uh, in GW2 isnt end game supposed to start at level 1 or something? I hear that often enough on this board.
Also, it doesnt have to be be some crazy difficult hard mode raid boss just at least difficult enough that people cant attack a few times and goof off the rest of the fight and get full credit. It cheapens the event and the game.
updated OP with better GW2 fight.. also if you can show me better wow footage feel free Ill update my OP...
added the Ragnaros fight to my OP
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by colddog04 They're supposed to be fun and they are part of the open world. This is a part of the freaking leveling experience, not some crazy difficult hard mode raid boss.
Uh, in GW2 isnt end game supposed to start at level 1 or something? I hear that often enough on this board.
Also, it doesnt have to be be some crazy difficult hard mode raid boss just at least difficult enough that people cant attack a few times and goof off the rest of the fight and get full credit. It cheapens the event and the game.
Not really sure what you are talking about with the level 1 comment. You can begin leveling content at level 1 and then continue playing leveling content till level 80 and then go back and play leveling content once you hit 80. So... yeah... leveling content starts at level 1.
And I agree with part of your last comment. I want the difficulty to be high enough to wipe people if there aren't enough people doing the right thing. But I don't give a shit if someone else gets credit because our guild did most of the heavy lifting. We're just different that way I guess.
also wanted to reiterate these are not max level encounters.. both of these are in the 50-60 range
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
So if I can't choose who comes with me and I can't plan it on a calendar then it's not a real raid?
That's the message I'm getting in this thread. I get that it's nice to schedule your fun in an MMO, I've enjoyed my share of raids, but you can have that. I'd much rather fight big bosses with various mechanics with strangers who may or may not know what's going on. If I want to choose my companions then I'll be in a group with friends already.
Scripted and predictable are the two reasons Im stoked for GW2 in general. Looks like "raiding" falls into that category as well.
Originally posted by Aelious So if I can't choose who comes with me and I can't plan it on a calendar then it's not a real raid?
That's the message I'm getting in this thread. I get that it's nice to schedule your fun in an MMO, I've enjoyed my share of raids, but you can have that. I'd much rather fight big bosses with various mechanics who strangers that may or may not know what's going on. If I want to choose my companions then I'll be in a group with friends already.
Scripted and predictable are the two reasons Im stoked for GW2 in general. Looks like "raiding" falls into that category as well.
people seem to think these boss fights have no mechanics or require no coordination which is not true at all.. the Shatterer fight I added shows a boss battle with plenty of mechanics which again is still only a mid-upper level fight.. the other fight was a old small demo just showcasing the boss
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
The difference between GW2 and WoW, or similar MMORPGs, is that in GW2 I don't have to be a part of some guild, have a proper gear, be a certain class with a certain spec and log in at a specific hour, to be allowed, by some moron guild leader, to join his raid and have a chance at getting more gear, to be able to do the next raid.
[mod edit]
unless you all wipe then nobody gets anything
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by Aelious So if I can't choose who comes with me and I can't plan it on a calendar then it's not a real raid?
That's the message I'm getting in this thread. I get that it's nice to schedule your fun in an MMO, I've enjoyed my share of raids, but you can have that. I'd much rather fight big bosses with various mechanics who strangers that may or may not know what's going on. If I want to choose my companions then I'll be in a group with friends already.
Scripted and predictable are the two reasons Im stoked for GW2 in general. Looks like "raiding" falls into that category as well.
Sounds nice when you put it that way, but I don't know if that's going to change what most people want in "raiding". As OP reiterated, it's not a level 80 boss, so the video looks pretty good, all things considered. I just hope there's more of what "most people want" towards 80 presented in a way that I know the smart people at ArenaNet have probably done to make it original.
I derive my strength from passion. Do you feel that? That is what seperates you and I, Jedi!
I for one always liked these sort of outdoor encounters. In a lot of other games though, it was the dynamic that formed around them as much as the fight itself that was compelling. By that I mean the PVP, guild alliances/politics and other elements that surrounded the event. With the segmented world and "piñata" loot/xp, I doubt it will as interesting as it could be, but it still looks fun to me.
This is a video of the same raid (dynamic event, or whatever you want to call it), also from gamescom 2011, but with much better perspective (more close-up), and a voice explaining, with details, what is actually giong on.
This video is a really terrific look at a scripted boss event that has mechanics that are comparable to what one might find in an end-game raid encounter in other MMOs.
If you haven't seen this version I recommend watching it.
One thing that I would like to know, and don't, is what the failure conditions look like for encounters like this. I would hope that the fight doesn't just go on until the boss dies, but that if it meets certain criteria (e.g. mobs destroy the Asura laser) then it is considered "victory" conditions for the dragon and there are subsequent consequences to this.
I guess that is what a lot of folks might be wondering about: are the higher level meta-events also higher stakes?
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Originally posted by Aelious So if I can't choose who comes with me and I can't plan it on a calendar then it's not a real raid?
That's the message I'm getting in this thread. I get that it's nice to schedule your fun in an MMO, I've enjoyed my share of raids, but you can have that. I'd much rather fight big bosses with various mechanics who strangers that may or may not know what's going on. If I want to choose my companions then I'll be in a group with friends already.
Scripted and predictable are the two reasons Im stoked for GW2 in general. Looks like "raiding" falls into that category as well.
people seem to think these boss fights have no mechanics or require no coordination which is not true at all.. the Shatterer fight I added shows a boss battle with plenty of mechanics which again is still only a mid-upper level fight.. the other fight was a old small demo just showcasing the boss
Wait, you mean the bosses aren't saved for endgame content? There are challenging and worthwhile things to do... outside instances?! Honestly, if you like segemented raiding more power to you. Get enjoyment for the time you spend doing something. It's a little silly to split hairs about what raiding is or isn't.
IMO raiding is anything that needs more than a group of people to beat. Instancing, difficulty, participants, etc. are worth noting but do not make or break the term.
Comments
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Something that needs a high degree of group focus and synergy, with complex levels of mechanics.
Here's an example, and why there's often guides for them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc0kfS8-KB0
question with a question.. shocking.. yea this is wiki but it gives you a good idea about what I feel raiding is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_(gaming)
A raid is a type of mission in a video game in which a very large number of people (larger than the normal team size set by the game) attempt to defeat a boss monster
Raids can occur in an instanced zone or a public zone. An advantage to a raid being in an instanced zone is that the raid leader can control who participates. An advantage to a raid being in a public zone is that anyone is free to join the raid when they like, although they may be removed from the raid if they disrupt the original raid group. Disadvantages to public raids are that they are more susceptible to griefing, and sometimes cannot be rezoned, as an instanced raid can, unless the boss is reset by the server.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Thanks for both the GW2 videos and the WoW reminder, i do not miss doing the WoW thing at ALL. Standing in the same place pressing the same 4 buttons over and over relying on a single healer or someone tanking trying to manipulate aggro so no one dies/ UGH can't believe i thought that was awesome at one time.
I love when it comes to tbe big dragon encounter. that they have canons to take down his health quicker then normal attacks.
I think GW2 devs thought about the griefing thing that's why they put in canons like in the dragon encounter to help offset the extra health of the bystanders standing around doing nothing.
Agreed. This was a Raid Boss in a Raid, fought by whst could be called a group of Raiders. This happens to be WOW but would be the same in any game with similar setup. The OP posted a World encounter. The word raid does not apply to that.
Nah its cause you cant grief really everyone whos involed gets exp and rewards it self so its all good and people thinking they can grief I tried to do it in one of the boss fights in this and it didn't change a thing unless its 20 or more players trying to grief it might.
Aerowyn you never stop with the awsome vids the first one was great the other 2 was like Deja Vu Thanks there great.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
I really don't like the scaling of the boss and allowing anyone to tag along. I do like a bit of strategy to my fights and this seemed a bit too easy. I was hoping it would be more like old EQ where you would have to get a ton of people together, clear an area for a bit and then pull the boss, most likely being defeated and having to try it all again, but with the strategy modern games have brought us.
All my hopes are in PvP. This looks like a good time, but nothing serious. Maybe the level 80 bosses will be more impressive in the way they're brought down.
I derive my strength from passion. Do you feel that? That is what seperates you and I, Jedi!
This is a video of the same raid (dynamic event, or whatever you want to call it), also from gamescom 2011, but with much better perspective (more close-up), and a voice explaining, with details, what is actually giong on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NG3hFRhxNs
The difference between GW2 and WoW, or similar MMORPGs, is that in GW2 I don't have to be a part of some guild, have a proper gear, be a certain class with a certain spec and log in at a specific hour, to be allowed, by some moron guild leader, to join his raid and have a chance at getting more gear, to be able to do the next raid.
This means that in GW2 I will actually be interested in those big encounters and will probably take part in them.
yeah they have already been complaining about the no tanks no healers thing, I think i'll record my engineer using the Elixir Gun and healer turret while fighting bosses to show these people what support really can do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5RpX9oAaSo this fight requires a lot of mechanics and coordination.. what's this considered then?
added video to OP oh this is also a very early look at this encounter
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Watched the video and was instantly reminded of why i hated raids in WoW, nothing but a dance routine doing the same exact thing over and over while running away from AOE hotspots the stationary boss puts on the ground, puts a nondispellable or absolutely needed to be dispelled ability on one of the raiders and having to worry about OPowered adds. Nothing new or interesting so glad i stopped playing.
Damn, that was from August 2010.
And how much does Ragnaros move in that? hmmmmm
Congratulations on posting one of the most basic raid bosses in WoW Cataclysm that was made purposely to be very simple.
But hey, whatever you have to do to try and prove your point.
Uh, in GW2 isnt end game supposed to start at level 1 or something? I hear that often enough on this board.Also, it doesnt have to be be some crazy difficult hard mode raid boss just at least difficult enough that people cant attack a few times and goof off the rest of the fight and get full credit. It cheapens the event and the game.
updated OP with better GW2 fight.. also if you can show me better wow footage feel free Ill update my OP...
added the Ragnaros fight to my OP
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Not really sure what you are talking about with the level 1 comment. You can begin leveling content at level 1 and then continue playing leveling content till level 80 and then go back and play leveling content once you hit 80. So... yeah... leveling content starts at level 1.
And I agree with part of your last comment. I want the difficulty to be high enough to wipe people if there aren't enough people doing the right thing. But I don't give a shit if someone else gets credit because our guild did most of the heavy lifting. We're just different that way I guess.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
That's the message I'm getting in this thread. I get that it's nice to schedule your fun in an MMO, I've enjoyed my share of raids, but you can have that. I'd much rather fight big bosses with various mechanics with strangers who may or may not know what's going on. If I want to choose my companions then I'll be in a group with friends already.
Scripted and predictable are the two reasons Im stoked for GW2 in general. Looks like "raiding" falls into that category as well.
people seem to think these boss fights have no mechanics or require no coordination which is not true at all.. the Shatterer fight I added shows a boss battle with plenty of mechanics which again is still only a mid-upper level fight.. the other fight was a old small demo just showcasing the boss
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
unless you all wipe then nobody gets anything
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Sounds nice when you put it that way, but I don't know if that's going to change what most people want in "raiding". As OP reiterated, it's not a level 80 boss, so the video looks pretty good, all things considered. I just hope there's more of what "most people want" towards 80 presented in a way that I know the smart people at ArenaNet have probably done to make it original.
I derive my strength from passion. Do you feel that? That is what seperates you and I, Jedi!
This video is a really terrific look at a scripted boss event that has mechanics that are comparable to what one might find in an end-game raid encounter in other MMOs.
If you haven't seen this version I recommend watching it.
One thing that I would like to know, and don't, is what the failure conditions look like for encounters like this. I would hope that the fight doesn't just go on until the boss dies, but that if it meets certain criteria (e.g. mobs destroy the Asura laser) then it is considered "victory" conditions for the dragon and there are subsequent consequences to this.
I guess that is what a lot of folks might be wondering about: are the higher level meta-events also higher stakes?
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Wait, you mean the bosses aren't saved for endgame content? There are challenging and worthwhile things to do... outside instances?! Honestly, if you like segemented raiding more power to you. Get enjoyment for the time you spend doing something. It's a little silly to split hairs about what raiding is or isn't.
IMO raiding is anything that needs more than a group of people to beat. Instancing, difficulty, participants, etc. are worth noting but do not make or break the term.