Originally posted by xenogias I'm torn. I generally dont want any game to fail. But I kinda want TSW to fail because of thier sub+cash shop model. I know if it fails it wont be because of the payment model though so meh.
I really dont understand why this is such a problem. its not like they hold a gun to your head forcing you to buy ANYTHING. You will do just fine in the game even if you dont buy a new pair of sandals with no stats attached to them.
So whats your angle here?
You want them to fail because you are terrified they will make money?
not so much the game itself as the model to fail, end game gear treadmill, quest hubs, endless dungeon runs, bad gear drop design, subscription based payment methods. those things should all be in a museum not in a new release.
Originally posted by itgrowls not so much the game itself as the model to fail, end game gear treadmill, quest hubs, endless dungeon runs, bad gear drop design, subscription based payment methods. those things should all be in a museum not in a new release.
TSW failed when they promised 1 idea that was great ..then revamped at the last min. to go a whole diff direction..for those who dont know what im talking about then you had no idea what this game was sopose to be like upon release
everyone in the mmo gaming world should want TSW to succeed.
why?
Because Funcom is the only company out there that at least tries to do something different or creative. With games like TSW succeeding we might actually see the envelope pushed a little further and actually get some great games in the future. Or we can just keep playing WOW err GW2 yawn fests
I'd like to point out here, that people claim GW2 is just a jumble of other ideas, improved as they are... and put into a game. Now going by that logic, what has Funcom done with TSW that is different or creative? They've taken myths and legends people have been reading for decades and jammed them into quests in an MMO?
Yeah, see that doesn't sit well with me. There's nothing new about vampires and zombies and monsters. Requiem: Bloodymare had them along with adult content, even if the game was shit.
Gameplay mechanics? I saw very little that deserves to be called creative when I played TSW trial. In fact, it was kind of insulting how similar it was to WoW and all its clones. You even had cooldowns on guns!
I don't want TSW to fail, but the fact that it is failing can't be denied. If they had done something entirely different or creative maybe they wouldn't be in this mess.
The controls, the mobs, the skills, the bosses, the Trinity ....... there is literally nothing different enough from past games I've played to put TSW on a pedestal above anything else.
... the character design - for living things - and the animations are terrible. I think the powersets and combat system are "out of place". It's like a bunch of X-MEN rushing through a HELLBLAZER story.
TSW failed when they promised 1 idea that was great ..then revamped at the last min. to go a whole diff direction..for those who dont know what im talking about then you had no idea what this game was sopose to be like upon release
I've been following the game since it was first announced, and was in closed beta for ~6 months up until release. I STILL don't know what you are referring to. Would you be so kind as to clarify?
Also, being vague simply for the sake of being vague does not strengthen an argument - it just makes the other person think you're spouting BS.
There is a difference between "wanting" it to fail and "knowing" its going to fail.
Funcom needs new management from the very top down to the bottom. They come up with great ideas, but dont know how to turn those ideas into a reality, there are too many misteps along the way and a complete lack of knowledge on how to update the game and fix bugs in a timely fashion. Much like AO and AoC, it will take them near a year to get the kinks out and who knows how long to improve on the weak parts of the game. History, that is where the "knowing" its going to fail comes from.
As much as I think they really dropped the ball with this game, and made some truly boneheaded design decisions (just my opinion), I don't want to see it fail, I simply dont care if it does or does not.
Do I want a horror MMORPG with good character customization ,decent combat,good PvP(its not there,people keeps saying that) made by Funcom,sure i could give it a try and hope it gets better after a while.
do i want that with b2p ,cash shop + sub ? no matter whats there in the cash shop and most likely paid name changes etc.
burn in hell.
i would actually be playing this without cash shop right now.
TSW is a good game to buy and play for a month. Should be released as a single-player game.
In my opinion, the in-game world is little too dark and depressing. Also, I think that number of MMO players, interested in the conspiracy theories, is smaller than Funcom thought it would be. And since the game doesn't offer anything new or interesting in terms of gameplay, the probability of it beeing succesfull and sustaining healthy population is close to 0%
"...the in-game world is little too dark and depressing"
Why people complain about that?
Thats how a HORROR game/movie should be. Dark. Depressing. Scary. That's the only accurated design decision funcom made.
No, it's not. That's something that makes many people sick after 10-15 hours of playing. Game is not a movie, you don't play it for 2 hours. It has to be much more diverse, complex, creative, deep, immersive.
Making everything dark, depressing, ugly, adding a ton of zombies and similar monsters and mixing it together for a MMO is something that a 15 year old could come up with in 15 minutes. Secret societies and conspiracy theories make it little more intricate and add a level of immersion, but it's not nearly enough.
Also Funcom, who dint expect it to fail one way or another ? They have a bad bad bad rep by alot of gamers, and they dont support greedy company's anymore, not by the million anyway.
You have to do a good job these days to convince gamers and to keep gamers playing your game. People are on their toes these days as the last 5 /5 years we have seen many many studio's falling flat on their face 1 month after release.
Funcom is no execption, they failed many gamers in the past, you can fool me once...
"...the in-game world is little too dark and depressing"
Why people complain about that?
Thats how a HORROR game/movie should be. Dark. Depressing. Scary. That's the only accurated design decision funcom made.
No, it's not. That's something that makes many people sick after 10-15 hours of playing. Game is not a movie, you don't play it for 2 hours. It has to be much more diverse, complex, creative, deep, immersive.
Making everything dark, depressing, ugly, adding a ton of zombies and similar monsters and mixing it together for a MMO is something that a 15 year old could come up with in 15 minutes. Secret societies and conspiracy theories make it little more intricate and add a level of immersion, but it's not nearly enough.
TSW is also not just a horror game. Yes, you fight creepy monsters, but the premise is that all myths and legends are true. That means this game could've had colorful and surreal fairy forests, jungle areas, underwater settlements, etc. Agartha is a good example of such an area. It's bright, colorful AND lore-friendly.
I wasn't bothered by the (mostly) grimdark style of TSW, but I understand how someone else could be.
I hear so many complaints about the subscription model or the sub+ cash shop that I really think many people are not really against the game, but instead, they despise the business model.
Unfortunately, cheapskates and freeloaders are everywhere, and in most cases, they will opt to play something free or cheap like B2P over something that has a subscription attached to it.
Even if they really like games with a sub attached to them, they will just pass on them, making up a number of reasons why said games are not worth paying a sub, and ironically, they typically talk about the sub price as one of the issues, and /or point to a B2P or F2P title.
This is magnified by a high profile game like GW2 about to launch with a B2P business model (it still has a cash shop).If this game is adopting this business model, these people expect/demand every other company to follow the same route.
Personally. I have no problems paying for my entertainment regardless of business model. I am in no way against alternate business models, but I always look to play something that I find enjoyable in the first place, and TSW is providing that so paying $15 a month or lifetime in my case, is totally irrelevant considering the fun I'm getting out of this title.
Consider this scenario :
Cheapskate Joe really enjoys playing Game X, which uses a sub-based model.
Cheapskate Joe enjoys Game Y, which uses a B2P or F2P model.
Cheapskate Joe finds Game X to be more enjoyable, but decides to settle for Game Y because it will cost him less money, and the game is still ok.
Cheapskate Joe then goes to public forums everywhere to rant about Game X and how it's going to fail, hoping the game will switch to a model he demands so he can play again without the game costing him more than he's paying for Game Y.
Feel free to agree or disagree, but it's how I see it, and I've seen it personally with a few friends.
A lot of people on these forums hate a game like SWTOR with a passion, and yet after the F2P announcement, it was really amusing to see many posts of people saying "I still think the game sucks, but I'll go back and finish my class story when it goes F2P".
A couple of my friends who only played SWTOR in the free trial because it "sucks so much" were inquiring on TS the other day if we would be heading there to play after it goes F2P.
i dont want it to fail, but in my mind, it failed the day AoC released .. until proven otherwise.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Where is TSW a dark game? Egypt is not dark, Solomon Islands is not dark, TSW has day and night cycles and beautyfull lighting. How much dumb decisions Funcom did make - it has not made a world that is all the time "dark". I dont know how people can make such claims???
And no i dont play it anymore, bcs i found a game i like more, despite that TSW is a good game, yet a mmo in its infancy. Yes - Funcom too makes really bad decision atm that make me upset and i wont play it again therefore.
But TSW has some really bright spots - as game as well as world!!!
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
I don't really think there is a lot of hate for TSW.
The animations do suck. They are awkward and look like they would throw your back out. That isn't hate.
I think the game is mostly a pretty decent game. Its game model is one I am tired of but the game is overall pretty good for that model. It also has quite nice graphics. I can say that and also say the animations suck ass.
There are always hyberbole spewing drama queens around but really TSW has not gotten that many compared to some other games. Games that didn't deserve and games that did deserve have both gotten a lot more hate than TSW. Most of this hate meme seems to be from people who can't understand why TSW isn't mpre popular, not that they have actually been inundated with hate.
Comments
I really dont understand why this is such a problem. its not like they hold a gun to your head forcing you to buy ANYTHING. You will do just fine in the game even if you dont buy a new pair of sandals with no stats attached to them.
So whats your angle here?
You want them to fail because you are terrified they will make money?
I don't know anyone who wants TSW to fail.
Main thing I don't like about it, and it is why I quit, is the gear grind/dungeon grind as the "endgame".
GW2 will save us all eh.
TSW failed when they promised 1 idea that was great ..then revamped at the last min. to go a whole diff direction..for those who dont know what im talking about then you had no idea what this game was sopose to be like upon release
I'd like to point out here, that people claim GW2 is just a jumble of other ideas, improved as they are... and put into a game. Now going by that logic, what has Funcom done with TSW that is different or creative? They've taken myths and legends people have been reading for decades and jammed them into quests in an MMO?
Yeah, see that doesn't sit well with me. There's nothing new about vampires and zombies and monsters. Requiem: Bloodymare had them along with adult content, even if the game was shit.
Gameplay mechanics? I saw very little that deserves to be called creative when I played TSW trial. In fact, it was kind of insulting how similar it was to WoW and all its clones. You even had cooldowns on guns!
I don't want TSW to fail, but the fact that it is failing can't be denied. If they had done something entirely different or creative maybe they wouldn't be in this mess.
The controls, the mobs, the skills, the bosses, the Trinity ....... there is literally nothing different enough from past games I've played to put TSW on a pedestal above anything else.
I like the game because I LOVE the theme. BUT...
... the character design - for living things - and the animations are terrible. I think the powersets and combat system are "out of place". It's like a bunch of X-MEN rushing through a HELLBLAZER story.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Unless you believe in superstitious nonsense that hoping for something makes it happen, then no. Want all you want lol
I've been following the game since it was first announced, and was in closed beta for ~6 months up until release. I STILL don't know what you are referring to. Would you be so kind as to clarify?
Also, being vague simply for the sake of being vague does not strengthen an argument - it just makes the other person think you're spouting BS.
To want any mmorpg to fail is absolutely asinine!
There is a difference between "wanting" it to fail and "knowing" its going to fail.
Funcom needs new management from the very top down to the bottom. They come up with great ideas, but dont know how to turn those ideas into a reality, there are too many misteps along the way and a complete lack of knowledge on how to update the game and fix bugs in a timely fashion. Much like AO and AoC, it will take them near a year to get the kinks out and who knows how long to improve on the weak parts of the game. History, that is where the "knowing" its going to fail comes from.
As much as I think they really dropped the ball with this game, and made some truly boneheaded design decisions (just my opinion), I don't want to see it fail, I simply dont care if it does or does not.
Do I want a horror MMORPG with good character customization ,decent combat,good PvP(its not there,people keeps saying that) made by Funcom,sure i could give it a try and hope it gets better after a while.
do i want that with b2p ,cash shop + sub ? no matter whats there in the cash shop and most likely paid name changes etc.
burn in hell.
i would actually be playing this without cash shop right now.
Let's internet
TSW is a good game to buy and play for a month. Should be released as a single-player game.
In my opinion, the in-game world is little too dark and depressing. Also, I think that number of MMO players, interested in the conspiracy theories, is smaller than Funcom thought it would be. And since the game doesn't offer anything new or interesting in terms of gameplay, the probability of it beeing succesfull and sustaining healthy population is close to 0%
"...the in-game world is little too dark and depressing"
Why people complain about that?
Thats how a HORROR game/movie should be. Dark. Depressing. Scary. That's the only accurated design decision funcom made.
No, it's not. That's something that makes many people sick after 10-15 hours of playing. Game is not a movie, you don't play it for 2 hours. It has to be much more diverse, complex, creative, deep, immersive.
Making everything dark, depressing, ugly, adding a ton of zombies and similar monsters and mixing it together for a MMO is something that a 15 year old could come up with in 15 minutes. Secret societies and conspiracy theories make it little more intricate and add a level of immersion, but it's not nearly enough.
Also Funcom, who dint expect it to fail one way or another ?
They have a bad bad bad rep by alot of gamers, and they dont support greedy company's anymore, not by the million anyway.
You have to do a good job these days to convince gamers and to keep gamers playing your game.
People are on their toes these days as the last 5 /5 years we have seen many many studio's falling flat on their face 1 month after release.
Funcom is no execption, they failed many gamers in the past, you can fool me once...
TSW is also not just a horror game. Yes, you fight creepy monsters, but the premise is that all myths and legends are true. That means this game could've had colorful and surreal fairy forests, jungle areas, underwater settlements, etc. Agartha is a good example of such an area. It's bright, colorful AND lore-friendly.
I wasn't bothered by the (mostly) grimdark style of TSW, but I understand how someone else could be.
it is why i love TSW !
I hear so many complaints about the subscription model or the sub+ cash shop that I really think many people are not really against the game, but instead, they despise the business model.
Unfortunately, cheapskates and freeloaders are everywhere, and in most cases, they will opt to play something free or cheap like B2P over something that has a subscription attached to it.
Even if they really like games with a sub attached to them, they will just pass on them, making up a number of reasons why said games are not worth paying a sub, and ironically, they typically talk about the sub price as one of the issues, and /or point to a B2P or F2P title.
This is magnified by a high profile game like GW2 about to launch with a B2P business model (it still has a cash shop).If this game is adopting this business model, these people expect/demand every other company to follow the same route.
Personally. I have no problems paying for my entertainment regardless of business model. I am in no way against alternate business models, but I always look to play something that I find enjoyable in the first place, and TSW is providing that so paying $15 a month or lifetime in my case, is totally irrelevant considering the fun I'm getting out of this title.
Consider this scenario :
Cheapskate Joe really enjoys playing Game X, which uses a sub-based model.
Cheapskate Joe enjoys Game Y, which uses a B2P or F2P model.
Cheapskate Joe finds Game X to be more enjoyable, but decides to settle for Game Y because it will cost him less money, and the game is still ok.
Cheapskate Joe then goes to public forums everywhere to rant about Game X and how it's going to fail, hoping the game will switch to a model he demands so he can play again without the game costing him more than he's paying for Game Y.
Feel free to agree or disagree, but it's how I see it, and I've seen it personally with a few friends.
A lot of people on these forums hate a game like SWTOR with a passion, and yet after the F2P announcement, it was really amusing to see many posts of people saying "I still think the game sucks, but I'll go back and finish my class story when it goes F2P".
A couple of my friends who only played SWTOR in the free trial because it "sucks so much" were inquiring on TS the other day if we would be heading there to play after it goes F2P.
Amusing and pathetic at once.
i dont want it to fail, but in my mind, it failed the day AoC released .. until proven otherwise.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3
Where is TSW a dark game?
Egypt is not dark, Solomon Islands is not dark, TSW has day and night cycles and beautyfull lighting.
How much dumb decisions Funcom did make - it has not made a world that is all the time "dark".
I dont know how people can make such claims???
And no i dont play it anymore, bcs i found a game i like more, despite that TSW is a good game, yet a mmo in its infancy.
Yes - Funcom too makes really bad decision atm that make me upset and i wont play it again therefore.
But TSW has some really bright spots - as game as well as world!!!
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
I don't really think there is a lot of hate for TSW.
The animations do suck. They are awkward and look like they would throw your back out. That isn't hate.
I think the game is mostly a pretty decent game. Its game model is one I am tired of but the game is overall pretty good for that model. It also has quite nice graphics. I can say that and also say the animations suck ass.
There are always hyberbole spewing drama queens around but really TSW has not gotten that many compared to some other games. Games that didn't deserve and games that did deserve have both gotten a lot more hate than TSW. Most of this hate meme seems to be from people who can't understand why TSW isn't mpre popular, not that they have actually been inundated with hate.